Sensible BM Post Shocker

[SotonBlade]

Read this on the dark side, and agreed with the logic:

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=463&fid=221&sty=2&act=1&mid=2118564125

THR
#1 01 Feb 2011 07:48
Signed: December 2010
Posts: 22
Trialist

Good bit of business Micky! Well done! ...

I'm obviously in the minority then for thinking that the signing of Collins and the exit of Bartley is a good move? But I'll tell you why.

First of all, you don't need me to tell you that our defence has been rubbish - the stats speak for themselves. You might need me to point out that the biggest weakness in that defence has been down the centre? Ever since Morgan went out of the team we've had a hole in the centre of defence big enough to drive a coach an horses through it. There's been no-one to aggressively attack the first ball like Morgan does. Instead we've had Nosworthy and his bewildering bag of circus tricks and Bartley - who some might say has done a good job, but I seriously beg to differ.

Take away the sentimental stuff about him only being 19 and take away the expectation that he must be good because he comes from Arsenal and what are you left with? I'll tell you. You're left with a bloke who is not bad in the air, good in the tackle, but awful in terms of reading the game and passing the ball. You could say, well, no-one's good at everything - and I agree with that - but Bartley's inability to read the game has left him and us, exposed so many times. I mean, it's ok to blame Nosworthy as we have done, because of his clowning tactics, but in some ways that's deflected attention from Bartley's own glaring errors of play. Not least his poor positional sense.

So, do I lament Bartley's departure? Not one bit. I wish him well but I don't think he'll ever make the grade at Arsenal for sure - and doubtful even at this level.

And so to Collins. Not the big name signing some of us might have been hoping for eh? So what? He will bring a lot of experience and solidity to central defence. I'm not expecting spectacular - just plain, simple, no nonsense, get that ball out of our danger zone, defending. And that's exactly what we need.

Plus - with Bartley gone it frees up a loan slot - and the significance of that shouldn't be underestimated. Micky knows that with hands tied he has to be creative in finding ways of strengthening the team - so the exit of Bartley and the signing of Collins not only fixes a hole in the defence - but allows us to make an additional signing - one that, just might be, the saviour of our season?

 

[broomhillblade]

I've not managed to see any matches this season - other than the televised ones, so I've relied on the radio.

Keith Edwards has continually gone on about how Bartley does not attack the ball - he gets caught underneath it too often (as does Nosworthy). This would seem to back up the points made by the poster above.

 

[Jon Bon]

Was saying similar things only this morning regarding Bartley's reading of play and his positional sense - or lack of it.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Agree with almost all of that post. The only thing I would say is that I think Bartley has some potential but is very raw. The weaknesses in his game are correctly pointed out in that post and that is why I agree that Collins is a better option in the short term.

I like young Kyle but for me, he's been very poor the last few weeks and is unable to play without an experienced combative defender next to him. With someone like Morgs alongside he would have been ok but its probably best all round that he's left under these circumstances.

 

[lenners]

Is he talking about the same Collins dropped after they shipped 5 at Barnsley and 6 at home to Preston?
Surely not.

 

[Worksop II]

Maybe all that is true, but he is a lad learning his trade, only time will tell if the lessons are learnt.

Glad to see we have a ready made solution comming in, already learnt his trade, lessons learnt, fuck ups well and truely in the past.

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

probably best all round that he's left under these circumstances.

Absolutely, he can go slumming it around Ibrox .........

 

[SotonBlade]

Is he talking about the same Collins dropped after they shipped 5 at Barnsley and 6 at home to Preston?
Surely not.

All of them his fault? what about the rest of the back four and the goalkeeper? What about how he worked with the rest of the back 4?

I'm keen to hear your thoughts?

 

[grafikhaus]

Well we'll have to see. I rated him, after all Arsenal do not have mugs on their books. It's just a pity he's now destined for Wednesday-level football.

I'm also not (unlike a lot on here) an expert on Collins but have got used to the deadline-day shenanigans at Bramall Lane. Build the fans' hopes up and then get rid of one of the stronger players at the last minute, hoping nobody will notice.

Not just us, of course. Liverpool and Newcastle fans will be gutted. It just illustrates how we, the fans, are pawns in the big game. Won't last forever, though.

I just wish United would show some professionalism. When we lose a player its the old 'Clause in his contract.' 'Couldn't stand in his way' etc. bollocks. When are we going to put fucking clauses in contracts? I'm thinking 'Yes, this player obviously doesn't figure in your plans so we'll take him on loan, pay all/most of his wages, accomodation, medical costs etc. etc. But don't think about reneging on this deal early. It's season-long, geddit?' or

'Yes, Mr. Redknapp we know you want our two Kyles. Everton are also interested. If we allow them to go to Spurs, we insist on a full-season loan next season. If one or both goes to play for England, we want £5m add-on. Too much? Not if we are to believe the money that's being thrown around the Premier League. Excuse me, I've got David Moyes on the other line...'

I'm afraid I can see mucho disillusionment tonight if we get thumped...

 

[raul]

This is a club who's fans leave at the very worst ambivalent about a 0-4 defeat at home to Scunthorpe Graff, wtf are you expecting to happen??

 

[lenners]

All of them his fault? what about the rest of the back four and the goalkeeper? What about how he worked with the rest of the back 4?

I'm keen to hear your thoughts?

Dunno, how many times have they shipped 5 or 6 since he was dropped?

 

[SotonBlade]

Have you checked your facts len?

He's played quite a few games since those:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=24429

 

[lenners]

Have you checked your facts len?

He's played quite a few games since those:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=24429

OK Soton, he's not a Leeds reserve, their fans aren't happy to see him go, Neil Collins is our future.

 

[SotonBlade]

OK Soton, he's not a Leeds reserve, their fans aren't happy to see him go, Neil Collins is our future.

Is that an admission that you were wrong regarding his selection after the aforementioned defeats?

 

[super_pig]

i think you've missed the point.. bartley might not be brilliant but he's arguably been our best player this year.. for whatever reasons, his leaving has knocked the stuffing out of the fans who are now demoralised, humiliated and a straw poll would suggest most of us think we are doomed

 

[Yossarian]

I think it's not so much "One of our better players has left" but "One of our better players has left and there is nothing we can do about it". There seems to have been little or no forward thinking going on at the Lane for the longest time, and we never seem to learn. It's just so frustrating.

And it's not just this, but all month long the only thing that's been uniting all on here is the opinion that we need reinforcements, and we need to spend a million or two to do it - otherwise we're in very big trouble. To see deadline day come and go, and see other clubs in the division improve their squads and not ours is pretty galling, given the position we're in and the need to improve.

 

[super_pig]

and now we find out that collins was signed too late to make tonights line up.. you couldn't make this up

 

[SteelCity Blade]

and now we find out that collins was signed too late to make tonights line up.. you couldn't make this up

Most people knew that yesterday

 

[lenners]

Is that an admission that you were wrong regarding his selection after the aforementioned defeats?

You don't get it Soton. We're signing a Leeds reserve here, a Coventry reserve there, who gives a flying? The local radio station doesn't even think it's news.
I couldn't give a shit about Collins beyond knowing he's now been bombed out at Preston and Leeds and the fans at Leeds think he's shit.
Collins is a symptom, nothing more than that.

 

[Mousey]

i think you've missed the point.. bartley might not be brilliant but he's arguably been our best player this year.. for whatever reasons, his leaving has knocked the stuffing out of the fans who are now demoralised, humiliated and a straw poll would suggest most of us think we are doomed

No we're not.

And he's hardly been our best player. He has constantly made mistakes that lead to goals, overlooked (mentioned in the OP) because of the failings of Nosworthy.

I bet if you analysed all goals against us this season that Bartley has been at fault more than Nosworthy.

 

[SotonBlade]

Reserves??

I think you'll find Doyle played in a quite a high percentage of first team games for Coventry this season, as has Collins for Leeds.. if you check the link I posted! You're avoiding facts and just going on opposition fans opinion. Judge him when you've seen him in the red and white.

I get it lenners. You're just using it as another stick to beat the club with. Save your criticisms for when the season is over and a post mortem can take place. Right now, in the clubs position, we need supporters not moaners.

 

[super_pig]

>And he's hardly been our best player
who has been better then

>Bartley has been at fault more than Nosworthy
stop it.. whilst i admire your optimism in dark times i think you ought to wake up and smell the coffee

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

>You're just using it as another stick to beat the club with
there hasn't exactly been a shortage of them lately has there.. basically lenners has been pointing out for time that we are going down the pan.. every week there is more and more evidence to support this and yet some of you still dont believe it.. <shakes head>
btw the world is an oblate spheroid (round.. ish).. not flat.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

You don't get it Soton. We're signing a Leeds reserve here

Michael Doyle
First team appearances 2010-11 Season - 16 (2)

Neil Collins
First team appearances 2010-11 Season - 20 (1)

 

[JohnDenver]

I bet if you analysed all goals against us this season that Bartley has been at fault more than Nosworthy.

I really doubt that, but it depends how you measure fault. Nos has blatantly gifted goal after goal, whereas Bartley's faults have been less obvious (positioning etc).

Given what we pay Nos, and how old Bartley is, we should have been seeing Nos covering Bartley's backside. But to my eyes it's been the other way round and it's credit to Bartley to have survived the car crash of our back four.

 

[lenners]

Michael Doyle
First team appearances 2010-11 Season - 16 (2)

Neil Collins
First team appearances 2010-11 Season - 20 (1)

Michael Doyle played all last season in League One - at the same team Collins was also loaned out to in League One.
Neither was wanted by their teams then and neither is wanted by their teams now.
Let's hope they're Blades legends in the making, preferably not in League One.

 

[super_pig]

>it's credit to Bartley to have survived the car crash of our back four.
as i pointed out somewhere else.. Nos would make cannavaro look average

 

[SotonBlade]

Michael Doyle played all last season in League One - at the same team Collins was also loaned out to in League One.
Neither was wanted by their teams then and neither is wanted by their teams now.
Let's hope they're Blades legends in the making, preferably not in League One.

Why back track??

You referred to them as reserves in the present tense lenners. Just admit you were wrong...just once...it would be a step in the right direction for you.

 

[lenners]

Why back track??

You referred to them as reserves in the present tense lenners. Just admit you were wrong...just once...it would be a step in the right direction for you.

Soton, if you think players loaned out to a club in League One and no longer wanted by their parent clubs in the Championship are demeaned by being called reserves, knock yourself out.

 

[SotonBlade]

Soton, if you think players loaned out to a club in League One and no longer wanted by their parent clubs in the Championship are demeaned by being called reserves, knock yourself out.

But that was LAST SEASON len

 

[raul]

Is it me, or are they a little more jiggly than usual?? Calm down Soton!!

 

[Mousey]

>And he's hardly been our best player
who has been better then

>Bartley has been at fault more than Nosworthy
stop it.. whilst i admire your optimism in dark times i think you ought to wake up and smell the coffee.

Better... Evans, Monty, Yeates.


And stop what? Keeping my toys in the pram and not spitting a dummy out?

I really doubt that, but it depends how you measure fault. Nos has blatantly gifted goal after goal, whereas Bartley's faults have been less obvious (positioning etc).

Given what we pay Nos, and how old Bartley is, we should have been seeing Nos covering Bartley's backside. But to my eyes it's been the other way round and it's credit to Bartley to have survived the car crash of our back four.

This is kind of my point, a goal conceeded is a goal conceeded, regardless of how glaring a mistake it is which leads to it.

We have conceeded a lot of goals where there's a square ball into the box and the opposition player has beaten his man for a tap in, it's usually Bartley's man.

Another example is Donny at home, Kozluk gave the penalty away. But who let the ball bounce and go over his head to let the Donny player in? Bartley.

I'm not saying he is a bad player, he is clearly gifted but he lacks the experience of knowing how to read the game.