CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

[Maidenhead]

I don't think it's as simple as bit part, back up, first team regular etc. I don't think Wilder wants guaranteed starters backed up by bit part players. I think he wants good options and competition in all areas. I think Leonard would be brought in as a potential first team player but far from guaranteed. I think Wilder probably sees him as someone who can offer stiffer competition to Fleck and Coutts than the likes of Whiteman, Scougall, Reed etc. could and who starts would be dependant on form, the opposition etc.. I think Carruthers was brought in under a similar basis that he would compete with Duffy for the role. Same with Baldock/ Freeman, Stevens/ Lafferty, Ched/ Clarke/ Hanson/ Lavery. Thomas is maybe a little different as he provides a natural wide option. Something we don't normally play with but gives us a means to change our shape like Chapman did last season.

I said something very similar the other day.

It's possible to improve the team performance simply by increasing the competition for places in it.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

It's a bit puzzling that in the many posts about formations and who plays where, the name of Carruthers is rarely mentioned as an important part of this team's future.

Of course Fleck and Coutts get mentioned, and of course we mustn't forget Duffy, but Carruthers? It's still unclear where he'll play, so Wilder obviously needs to make that decision for everyone's good.

Might work out in his favour to be fair - less expectation on him. We will need probably 6 players to fill the three midfield places if we are gonna play 352.

He clearly has a lot of talent (needs to score more mind) but was unlucky with injuries and stuffered by not being on the same level fitness wise.

Bit of cliche but with a full preseason it will be like a new signing for us. At the very least a talented squad player with the potential to develop

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Southend are perfectly entitled to keep their own players. They are entitled to settle upon a transfer valuation and stick to it. Equally we can and should offer no more than our valuation.

However, there is a another factor. Lenny. He wants to go. That changes the landscape. There's golf to be played and it's hot.

Southend will sell him. They'll compromise their valuation and they'll sell him. RugRon will have to make an adjustment. Not before time, either.

No issue with that. It's just that I'v e seen a few posts either suggesting we should pay what they want or they should accept what we want to bid. Fact is, both sides have their valuations and if they don't meet, no deal is done. An unsettled player can complicate that formula but Southend hold his registration and CAN play hardball if they decide. However, it's probably fairly unlikely as most league 1 clubs, as we have found out to our costs on many occasions, tend to accept that if a player wants to go, they are better getting something for him over keeping an unhappy player. Doesn't automatically mean they will come back and accept our offer though. I suspect you're right that he will leave. Time will tell if it's to us.

 

[Maidenhead]

It's a bit puzzling that in the many posts about formations and who plays where, the name of Carruthers is rarely mentioned as an important part of this team's future.

Of course Fleck and Coutts get mentioned, and of course we mustn't forget Duffy, but Carruthers? It's still unclear where he'll play, so Wilder obviously needs to make that decision for everyone's good.

Like all the other players he will play within the rectangle formed by the white lines that denominated the perimeter of the pitch.

People do get excited about positions and formations which continually change within the course of a game.

Does it really matter what label you put on it?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Like all the other players he will play within the rectangle formed by the white lines that denominated the perimeter of the pitch.

People do get excited about positions and formations which continually change within the course of a game.

Does it really matter what label you put on it?

Formations don't interest me that much, never have. I enquired about the apparent fact that very few of us seem to consider Carruthers as a part of the first team, that's all.

 

[BushBlade]

Could have been another notch on our long list of firsts.

It's only a matter of time until one does.

Football won't always be so fashionable.

Anything's possible but it's highly unlikely that we'd have gone bankrupt after McDonald.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I said something very similar the other day.

It's possible to improve the team performance simply by increasing the competition for places in it.

Also, it gives us the option of a more defensive looking midfield for those difficult away games. Something like

--------------Leonard
----------Coutts-----Fleck

Essentially inverting the triangle and playing without a number 10. Would help counter issues relating to Coutts' sloppy tracking back,

 

[Grizzly blade]

Or they can reject our offer which does not meet their valuation of a player who is valuable to them. That is absolutely their perogative. If we'd sold one of our best players in League 1 for a few hundred grand, I, and many others on here would be livid so I can entirely understand why Southend don't want to. Yes they risk losing him for nothing but it's up to them whether the sum on offer now is worth more than a year of the players' service. The point about how important a player is to the selling club is illustrated by Matt Done. Now we are in the championship, we have little to no use for him and will let him go for nothing or next to nothing to get him off the wage bill. When we signed him, he was integral to Rochdale so they wouldn't let him go unless they received a decent fee to help them strengthen the team. I'm not saying Wilder SHOULD pay more because he's imortant to Southend whereas JOC and Moore weren't. What I'm saying is that if he wants him, he will cost more than they did for the reasons highlighted in the Matt Done case.

Absolutely.
I have no problem with them doing whatever they want. It's their loss both ways as they either lose him for what we offer or lose him for nothing. Either way they lose him.
Point is, they will have to replace him at some point. If it was United, I would rather have 350k now to use to help fund a replacement than have nowt to use in 12 months or less.
It's not about what he offers their side now either, because from now on he will never be the same player as he has been for them as he made it clear he wants to go. He will have alienated the fans and I can bet my last pound won't be going into tackles the same so as not to jeapodise any future move from long term injury He may well even play the "injured" card more often then he used to.

It's a shit situation for them, and one we have been in many times. That's football.

 

[Maidenhead]

Formations don't interest me that much, never have. I enquired about the apparent fact that very few of us seem to consider Carruthers as a part of the first team, that's all.

I think that our training regime and fitness levels came as a bit of a shock to him.

I'm looking forward to seeing in him after a Wilder type pre season.

If he stays the course he has the ability to be sensational.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Absolutely.
I have no problem with them doing whatever they want. It's their loss both ways as they either lose him for what we offer or lose him for nothing. Either way they lose him.
Point is, they will have to replace him at some point. If it was United, I would rather have 350k now to use to help fund a replacement than have nowt to use in 12 months or less.
It's not about what he offers their side now either, because from now on he will never be the same player as he has been for them as he made it clear he wants to go. He will have alienated the fans and I can bet my last pound won't be going into tackles the same so as not to jeapodise any future move from long term injury He may well even play the "injured" card more often then he used to.

It's a shit situation for them, and one we have been in many times. That's football.

Unless someone makes a higher bid closer to their valuation. There will be a point where they decide they'd rather have £X now than keep him for a year then lose him for nowt. It seems the parties are not there yet. Maybe someone will budget or maybe someone else will make a higher bid. If not, he stays and the scenario you paint could happen. Alternatively, he might be the sort to realise that the best way to get the best offer next summer is to really impress this season. t's a gamble for them though. Time will tell.

Or maybe he puts in a transfer request and they accept our current offer as they don't have to pay him his cut? That could narrow the gap.

 

[Maidenhead]

Anything's possible but it's highly unlikely that we'd have gone bankrupt after McDonald.

Having worked in commercial finance for a long time I can confirm that football finances fit no recognised model whatsoever.

In most cases they are completely reliant on benefactor funding either directly or by way of guarantee. (Usually secured).

How Wednesday got away with their arrangement with the Coop I'll never know.

Many moons ago I saw a lending proposition for a lego stadium which has now been built and the assumptions and projections in the documents were highly speculative to the point of being eye watering.

Needless to say none of the projected figures have ever been met.

I don't know who funded the build because i couldnt be bothered to find out but I suspect that a wealthy benefactor who was willing to back the project with unsupported guarantees may have had to dip into his own pockets in a big way.

McCabe is not the wealthiest, or more importantly most cash rich man in the world, but his commitment to United has been proportionally immense.

Other people weren't queueing up to support United when he came in and I haven't seen him turn away a list of would be purchasers since then.

Unless we can get support from someone with much greater personal wealth and a comparable personal interest of the club we will be as we are, a club with a good history and an exceptional fan base trying to punch above our financial weight.

Some of our supporters (not aimed at you) need to give the man a break and appreciate what he has done, not coninually moan about his mistakes and what he hasn't done whilst casting doubts and aspersions on his motives.

I agree that we probably wouldn't have gone bust without him but we may have beaten Portsmouth, Luton and Coventry in the race to league 2, or even the conference in the case of Luton who always seemed to be around our level in the 70's and 80's

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Dude, just start the thread. If you articulate the issue/opening post well enough and the patrons here feel there's a discussion to be had, it'll develop into a debate I'm sure Pinchy and others will relish. If not then, at least, you really can say you tried.

Thanks for the encouragement. New thread is up on the General section. I'll blame you if it goes tits up.

 

[BushBlade]

Having worked in commercial finance for a long time I can confirm that football finances fit no recognised model whatsoever.

In most cases they are completely reliant on benefactor funding either directly or by way of guarantee. (Usually secured).

How Wednesday got away with their arrangement with the Coop I'll never know.

Many moons ago I saw a lending proposition for a lego stadium which has now been built and the assumptions and projections in the documents were highly speculative to the point of being eye watering.

Needless to say none of the projected figures have ever been met.

I don't know who funded the build because i couldnt be bothered to find out but I suspect that a wealthy benefactor who was willing to back the project with unsupported guarantees may have had to dip into his own pockets in a big way.

McCabe is not the wealthiest, or more importantly most cash rich man in the world, but his commitment to United has been proportionally immense.

Other people weren't queueing up to support United when he came in and I haven't seen him turn away a list of would be purchasers since then.

Unless we can get support from someone with much greater personal wealth and a comparable personal interest of the club we will be as we are trying to punch above our financial weight.

Some of our supporters (not aimed at you) need to give the man a break and appreciate what he has done, not coninually moan about his mistakes and what he hasn't done whilst casting doubts and assertions on his motives.

I agree that we probably wouldn't have gone bust without him but we may have beaten Portsmouth, Luton and Coventry in the race to league 2 or even the conference in the case of Luton who always seemed to be around our level in the 70's and 80's

'I agree that we probably wouldn't have gone bust without him but we may have beaten Portsmouth, Luton and Coventry in the race to league 2 or even the conference in the case of Luton who always seemed to be around our level in the 70's and 80's'

Exactly, so why not just say that? Whenever anyone (not a dig at you specifically) says things like 'there might not be a club without McCabe' they just undermine their own credibility.

I've said all I need to say about KM and the running of the club, I have no interest in going over it all again but I find the posters who blindly defend everything the club does, who bend over backwards to do so and actually make themselves look a bit stupid, just as frustrating as the posters who trot out the same old McCabe shit year after year. We all know he's made big mistakes, it doesn't need repeating daily like a mantra.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

You clearly do. Follow your own advice and start one on a different thread. You're asking me to initiate a debate on a settled issue with which only cavemen would disagree.

Next - Is the Earth round? The case for lager?

The new thread is up and running. Ryan Leonard has his thread back.

 

[Maidenhead]

'I agree that we probably wouldn't have gone bust without him but we may have beaten Portsmouth, Luton and Coventry in the race to league 2 or even the conference in the case of Luton who always seemed to be around our level in the 70's and 80's'

Exactly, so why not just say that? Whenever anyone (not a dig at you specifically) says things like 'there might not be a club without McCabe' they just undermine their own credibility.

I've said all I need to say about KM and the running of the club, I have no interest in going over it all again but I find the posters who blindly defend everything the club does, who bend over backwards to do so and actually make themselves look a bit stupid, just a frustrating as the posters who trot out the same old McCabe shit year after year. We all know he's made big mistakes, it doesn't need repeating daily like a mantra.

At the end of today we will be where we are.

Whatever any of us think none of us can change the past even though many of us benefit from 20/20 hindsight.

The important thing is always to look to the future because if you spend all your time looking backwards you will inevitably trip over something that you didn't see in front of you.

I'm sure that if any of our fans know someone wealthier than Mr McCabe with similar motives towards the future of SUFC then KM will be happy to talk to them.

 

[Maidenhead]

The new thread is up and running. Ryan Leonard has his thread back.

No he doesn't.

I'm turning it into a discussion on football finances outside of the Premiership.

 

[BushBlade]

At the end of today we will be where we are.

Whatever any of us think none of us can change the past even though many of us benefit from 20/20 hindsight.

The important thing is always to look to the future because if you spend all your time looking backwards you will inevitably trip over something that you didn't see in front of you.

I'm sure that if any of our fans know someone wealthier than Mr McCabe with similar motives towards the future of SUFC then KM will be happy to talk to them.

I agree to a point but if you don't look back and learn from history you'll just repeat the same mistakes.

The fact I don't know anyone personally who could buy United doesn't preclude me from having an opinion on how the club is run.

 

[BigBed]

This is now becoming ridiculas, this is Ryan's thread, and by God he wants it back, so fuck off with all this "what if" and "could of" bollocks, and concentrate on the actual purpose of this thread!!!
Tw@s!!!!

 

[Maidenhead]

I agree to a point but if you don't look back and learn from history you'll just repeat the same mistakes.

The fact I don't know anyone personally who could buy United doesn't preclude me from having an opinion on how the club is run.

Absolutely agree but I find it best not to worry about things that I can't influence.

That's why I'm such a happy go lucky chap without a care in the world

 

[Maidenhead]

I agree to a point but if you don't look back and learn from history you'll just repeat the same mistakes.

The fact I don't know anyone personally who could buy United doesn't preclude me from having an opinion on how the club is run.

Learn and move on.

I have, shame some can't forget about dinosaur Dave and do the same.



P.S. I thoroughly enjoyed the Basset days as I am the Wilder ride.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

No he doesn't.

I'm turning it into a discussion on football finances outside of the Premiership.

I know nothing about finance at all, so I'll be back in a minute with several posts on the subject. I have a feeling that if we ever sign Ryan Leonard, he'll just sit on the bench every match, and everyone will ignore him.

 

[Pinchy]

I don't think it's as simple as bit part, back up, first team regular etc. I don't think Wilder wants guaranteed starters backed up by bit part players. I think he wants good options and competition in all areas. I think Leonard would be brought in as a potential first team player but far from guaranteed. I think Wilder probably sees him as someone who can offer stiffer competition to Fleck and Coutts than the likes of Whiteman, Scougall, Reed etc. could and who starts would be dependant on form, the opposition etc.. I think Carruthers was brought in under a similar basis that he would compete with Duffy for the role. Same with Baldock/ Freeman, Stevens/ Lafferty, Ched/ Clarke/ Hanson/ Lavery. Thomas is maybe a little different as he provides a natural wide option. Something we don't normally play with but gives us a means to change our shape like Chapman did last season.

You're right. Tufty doesn't see thing strictly in terms of the 'team'. He perceives a 14 player game. Hes the best Ive ever seen at successfully changing things during a game. In truth, not many managers can do that, though many talk a good game.

In my view, we need to pause before saying 'we've got enough strikers/midfielders/full-backs [delete according to taste]. The likelihood is Tufty is thinking three moves ahead of the rest of us, rather like proper footballers do, come to think of it...

 

[Grappler]

Having worked in commercial finance for a long time I can confirm that football finances fit no recognised model whatsoever.

In most cases they are completely reliant on benefactor funding either directly or by way of guarantee. (Usually secured).

How Wednesday got away with their arrangement with the Coop I'll never know.

Many moons ago I saw a lending proposition for a lego stadium which has now been built and the assumptions and projections in the documents were highly speculative to the point of being eye watering.

Needless to say none of the projected figures have ever been met.

I don't know who funded the build because i couldnt be bothered to find out but I suspect that a wealthy benefactor who was willing to back the project with unsupported guarantees may have had to dip into his own pockets in a big way.

McCabe is not the wealthiest, or more importantly most cash rich man in the world, but his commitment to United has been proportionally immense.

Other people weren't queueing up to support United when he came in and I haven't seen him turn away a list of would be purchasers since then.

Unless we can get support from someone with much greater personal wealth and a comparable personal interest of the club we will be as we are, a club with a good history and an exceptional fan base trying to punch above our financial weight.

Some of our supporters (not aimed at you) need to give the man a break and appreciate what he has done, not coninually moan about his mistakes and what he hasn't done whilst casting doubts and aspersions on his motives.

I agree that we probably wouldn't have gone bust without him but we may have beaten Portsmouth, Luton and Coventry in the race to league 2, or even the conference in the case of Luton who always seemed to be around our level in the 70's and 80's

"Friends" in high places?.........

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

"Friends" in high places?.........

Don`t know about the "high".

 

[Maidenhead]

"Friends" in high places?.........

Nope.

Was in the course of my job which is why all the details will remain anonymous.

 

[Pinchy]

Don`t know about the "high".

You don't work at the garage or body shop by any chance? Best in business, in my view.

 

[Booker4]

I read what you said carefully. It didn't occur to me you were inviting a reply. I'm not a person with no answers but I don't always articulate them. I like to give others a chance.

Fair play Pinchy. I said my defence of what I consider, to date, as the best manager we've ever had, or ever likely to have, although Wilder is very promising. But I enjoy reading your views, which are well articulated, even if I don't always agree!

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Fair play Pinchy. I said my defence of what I consider, to date, as the best manager we've ever had, or ever likely to have, although Wilder is very promising. But I enjoy reading your views, which are well articulated, even if I don't always agree!

What he means Pinchy is well articulated shit! Haha!

Can you let us have our Leonard thread back now?!

 

[diplomat]

Can someone tell me who would win if Sam Morsy and Ryan Leonard went head to head in unarmed combat? No biting.

 

[Booker4]

What he means Pinchy is well articulated shit! Haha!

Can you let us have our Leonard thread back now?!

Ha ha, I didn't think he was talking crap, but I didn't agree. As long as people on here respect others I think, that's really important. We're all Blades fans on here at the end of the day. I'm not adding aren't we? as that just reminds me of the pigs and their usual arrogance (which they say is tongue in cheek, but I think many of their fan base believe it) that everyone is a Wendy fan!