CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

[Pinchy]

It appears that Wilder wants Leonard but our tinpot owners won't pay what he is worth. All this shite about only paying what we think a player is worth is meaningless when our valuations are so low. I wouldn't mind but we are hardly talking big money.

So much for the Board stepping things up once we got to the Championship. We are competing against clubs - many of them smaller than us - who are willing to spend millions yet we balk at a few hundred thousand.

Either you don't listen to what the manager says or choose to ignore it. He's made his policy crystal clear. He's in control of the offers.

I'm afraid I'm quite sure that your post is both disingenuous and malicious. You are deliberately distorting the well-documented circumstances pursuant to a rather tired agenda. A path you have walked many times but never programmed the sat-nav.

 

[BushBlade]

Even if that be accepted, it's a grain of sand to the Sahara compared to the number of trophies won by teams who do play proper football. The Leicester argument, which I've heard before of course, doesn't run very far, wouldn't you accept?

I think it would be foolish if any manager tried to emulate them. But there's more than a few grains of sand. It's still possible for teams to overachieve by playing direct organised football that relies on controlling areas of the pitch rather than the ball.

Of course, the teams that tend to win things, domestically, are the teams with the most money, who don't need to play that kind of football, who can afford the best players to play the best kind of football. So, naturally, proper football will be the type played by the winning teams.

It takes a very special manager to get a club to overachieve playing proper football. I hope we've found one.

 

[Pinchy]

From our point of view, we only want to offer what we think he's worth. I'm just saying that Southend are entitled to want more than what we've offered.

I think you actually said we should pay at their valuation. Not really the way anyone does business. Would you like to buy my car?

 

[Booker4]

I think you actually said we should pay at their valuation. Not really the way anyone does business. Would you like to buy my car?

We need to match the valuation that they want for the player, or at least get nearer to it than we are presently, IE or nearest offer - that's if they decide to sell, and if we don't get near their valuation surely there will be no deal. I'm not faulting United's policy for bidding here. Everyone knows you go in lower than what the likely sale is going to be. Then the selling club says no, and the buying club comes back with an improved offer and it goes on from there.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Either you don't listen to what the manager says or choose to ignore it. He's made his policy crystal clear. He's in control of the offers.

I'm afraid I'm quite sure that your post is both disingenuous and malicious. You are deliberately distorting the well-documented circumstances pursuant to a rather tired agenda. A path you have walked many times but never programmed the sat-nav.

CW's offers will be severely constrained by the budget set by our tinpot Board. As for me having an agenda, that is laughable coming from you. Maybe you are grateful to McCabe for overseeing the worst period in the club's history. I'm not.

 

[JJBlade]

It's only a matter of time before Leonard leaves Southend

It will be to a club that feels he is a Championship quality player and are willing to bid 600k - 700k in to get him

That will be the first step the boardroom take in knocking us all back down to earth again

The second will be Holmes

The third will be pissing Wilder off with their continued 1970's attitude

 

[S5Blade]

Pinchy genuine question, did Bassett touch you up as a young lad? Or maybe turned down your advances?

 

[Pinchy]

I think it would be foolish if any manager tried to emulate them. But there's more than a few grains of sand. It's still possible for teams to overachieve by playing direct organised football that relies on controlling areas of the pitch rather than the ball.

Of course, the teams that tend to win things, domestically, are the teams with the most money, who don't need to play that kind of football, who can afford the best players to play the best kind of football. So, naturally, proper football will be the type played by the winning teams.

It takes a very special manager to get a club to overachieve playing proper football. I hope we've found one.

But subject to very few exceptions, it's a path you have to take if you want to win anything. The limit of direct teams' overachievement is, grains of sand aside, survival.

Tufty's football, by whatever appellation, was breathtakingly good last season. It would be a disaster to abandon it now. I don't believe he will. I think he'll build us a team that can succeed playing the right way. Success is relative of course. Unlike Leicester, we won't win the Prem. I think we might in a couple of years though be able to survive there playing the right way.

I just want to say this, leaving the wind-ups on the back burner for a second. I'm both astonished and saddened to hear people say it doesn't matter how you play and I'd have been just as happy to get the same results by hoofing it (yes, someone did say that).

Not on this occasion because I think how you play is fundamental to winning (and I am indeed sure of that) but because I feel sorry for them. They have no football soul. Great football is more than just a means to an end. It is a thing of genuine beauty; a true work of art.

Anyway, you've made your point well. Some don't.

 

[Pinchy]

Pinchy genuine question, did Bassett touch you up as a young lad? Or maybe turned down your advances?

Why, was he a nonce as well as a hoofer? Even I haven't suggested that....

 

[Booker4]

But subject to very few exceptions, it's a path you have to take if you want to win anything. The limit of direct teams' overachievement is, grains of sand aside, survival.

Tufty's football, by whatever appellation, was breathtakingly good last season. It would be a disaster to abandon it now. I don't believe he will. I think he'll build us a team that can succeed playing the right way. Success is relative of course. Unlike Leicester, we won't win the Prem. I think we might in a couple of years though be able to survive there playing the right way.

I just want to say this, leaving the wind-ups on the back burner for a second. I'm both astonished and saddened to hear people say it doesn't matter how you play and I'd have been just as happy to get the same results by hoofing it (yes, someone did say that).

Not on this occasion because I think how you play is fundamental to winning (and I am indeed sure of that) but because I feel sorry for them. They have no football soul. Great football is more than just a means to an end. It is a thing of genuine beauty; a true work of art.

Anyway, you've made your point well. Some don't.

Since you're still on this I'll say this Pinchy as an attempt to reason with you, although as you say no doubt a lot of this is just a wind up.

Your main mistake for me is you assuming that fans like me, who enjoyed the Bassett era, presumably prefer long ball hoof, as you put it. I don't and I'm sure most don't. But I did enjoy Harry's football which was fast paced, decent wing play, on the whole exciting to watch and got us two promotions and then equally remarkably, 4 seasons in the top flight, with wins against every top side going at some point, derby wins when we spent an 8th of what the pigs did, we can just go on and on.

Also Harry, Beck and Hughes cannot be compared. Beck was a lower league hoof merchant for sure - he didn't have the success that Harry did throughout his career, althout that said he achieved far more than many managers at the time who tried passing football and achieved very little. Harry didn't become unemployable, he was managing full time up to 57 and then was assistant at a few more clubs. In the 90's virtually all teams were more direct than they are now, with the exception of the top 2 or three teams. Most teams played 4-4-2 and many had a target man. Leeds had Chapman, Man U had Hughes, Arsenal had Alan Smith, Everton had Ferguson and before that Mike Newell who played for Blackburn when they won the league, Man City had Niall Quinn etc etc. All teams regularly kicked the ball long, particularly from goal kicks. Yes we were more direct than everyone else bar Wimbledon but I don't remember many complaining when passing teams like West Ham, Derby, Palace and Forest were relegated and we finished above Spurs, Chelsea, Norwich and Southampton who had Le Tissier.

 

[Grizzly blade]

CW's offers will be severely constrained by the budget set by our tinpot Board. As for me having an agenda, that is laughable coming from you. Maybe you are grateful to McCabe for overseeing the worst period in the club's history. I'm not.

How do you know what budget the board has set?

If you are stuck in the past, then get a bloody grip. There is no justification for making such comments simply because we won't meet a valuation put on their player by a club in league one who have only one year left that they can command any kind of fee.
You have no idea what Wilders plans are for him, or if it's the board that is pulling the purse strings and doing the negotiating.

 

[Pinchy]

It's only a matter of time before Leonard leaves Southend

It will be to a club that feels he is a Championship quality player and are willing to bid 600k - 700k in to get him

That will be the first step the boardroom take in knocking us all back down to earth again

The second will be Holmes

The third will be pissing Wilder off with their continued 1970's attitude

Nonsense. Malicious agenda-driven nonsense having no basis in fact. Quite the contrary.

 

[Pinchy]

How do you know what budget the board has set?

If you are stuck in the past, then get a bloody grip. There is no justification for making such comments simply because we won't meet a valuation put on their player by a club in league one who have only one year left that they can command any kind of fee.
You have no idea what Wilders plans are for him, or if it's the board that is pulling the purse strings and doing the negotiating.

It's worse than that. Tufty has clearly and repeatedly stated that he won't pay more than he thinks a player is worth. This is malicious nonsense and conspicuously so.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I can't believe I'm the only person upto now to like this.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land if they think someone's best player in league one is only worth £350k

Even we have always got a lot more than that when selling all our best players over recent years from League one.

We paid £750k for Matty Done from a smaller club than Southend to play in League one and that is roughly the fee I think Southend would want for Leonard especially to be plying his trade at a Championship club. I don't think Wilder will bid that much for him which if so it then begs the question does he see him sufficient enough to play a big role in the Championship? The bid seems to think he will be a bit part player at best so we should move on because we don't need bit part players, we need amother midfield enforcer.

All this is guess work but when you weigh up what some players go for £750k is the least Southend should want.

Wiz - you have to ask the question of what anything in this world is worth. It is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. We have offered an amount and Southend and holding out which is their prerogative. What will he be worth in the JTW?- absolutely nothing as at his age he can just play it out until end of season.

Who paid stupid money for Done? We were a desperate 3rd tier club - Rochdale knew that and had our pants down and it appears CW won't let anyone have our pants down again, or at least by much. CW puts out markers - he has just done it with Jags, he has also done it with Lenny. We might not get him this August, it might be next season if we are still in the market - but the marker has been laid down. CW seems very clever in his dealings.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

CW's offers will be severely constrained by the budget set by our tinpot Board. As for me having an agenda, that is laughable coming from you. Maybe you are grateful to McCabe for overseeing the worst period in the club's history. I'm not.

Have you heard any of Tufty's interviews on RS at all? He has no complaint about his budget and he decides on the offers. He has said it time after time after time. You are quite deliberately distorting the truth as you have done many times before on your silly mission.

Perhaps you would contribute a few quid? Or do you only spend other people's money?

 

[Booker4]

Pinchy, I notice you gave no replies to my points on Harry? You make observations on Harry that are largely your opinion and nothing else. For example: Fans who liked Harry's football prefer long ball. I assume the silence means you have no answers?

 

[Harrisblade]

CW's offers will be severely constrained by the budget set by our tinpot Board. As for me having an agenda, that is laughable coming from you. Maybe you are grateful to McCabe for overseeing the worst period in the club's history. I'm not.

CW's offers will be constrained only by CW's valuation of a player.
Maybe you're working to your own prejudices and spite.
Most of us are trying to look forward not back

 

[BushBlade]

But subject to very few exceptions, it's a path you have to take if you want to win anything. The limit of direct teams' overachievement is, grains of sand aside, survival.

Tufty's football, by whatever appellation, was breathtakingly good last season. It would be a disaster to abandon it now. I don't believe he will. I think he'll build us a team that can succeed playing the right way. Success is relative of course. Unlike Leicester, we won't win the Prem. I think we might in a couple of years though be able to survive there playing the right way.

I just want to say this, leaving the wind-ups on the back burner for a second. I'm both astonished and saddened to hear people say it doesn't matter how you play and I'd have been just as happy to get the same results by hoofing it (yes, someone did say that).

Not on this occasion because I think how you play is fundamental to winning (and I am indeed sure of that) but because I feel sorry for them. They have no football soul. Great football is more than just a means to an end. It is a thing of genuine beauty; a true work of art.

Anyway, you've made your point well. Some don't.

I think to an extent, it's relative. Would I accept long ball football if it got us into the champions league? Yes, probably. Would I have been happy if we'd hoofed our way out of L1? With our budget, not at all. And to the credit of our managers (and the ones who recruited them and presumably set the brief) non have tried to.

Similarly, I want us to continue in this vein and try to keep playing our football but if it does go a bit pear shaped then I wouldn't object to CW grinding out a few wins to make sure we stay up and have another go.

And we have a very good academy. One designed to produce footballers. So our first team has to play football, or we're just wasting our time.

I loathed teams like Arsenal under Graham, at least we had an excuse. We were skint and with a fan base who were adamant we were a top level club and had spent too long out of Division 1, who demanded promotion.

I do think you do our supporters a bit of a disservice though. If Blackwell did one good thing, it was to remind people how poor hoof can be, that's it's not always a panacea. I posted on another board in those days and there were a lot of posters who were desperate for us to play good football. There were many citing Swansea as an example of how to build a proper team and saying 'why can't we do this?' There is an appetite for proper football at the Lane, as demonstrated by our attendances last season.

 

[Snowman]

He's not signed then?

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Pinchy, I notice you gave no replies to my points on Harry? You make observations on Harry that are largely your opinion and nothing else. For example: Fans who liked Harry's football prefer long ball. I assume the silence means you have no answers?

You should be grateful when he doesn't reply. Don't encourage him to post even more drivel.

 

[wizadry]

Wiz - you have to ask the question of what anything in this world is worth. It is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. We have offered an amount and Southend and holding out which is their prerogative. What will he be worth in the JTW?- absolutely nothing as at his age he can just play it out until end of season.

Who paid stupid money for Done? We were a desperate 3rd tier club - Rochdale knew that and had our pants down and it appears CW won't let anyone have our pants down again, or at least by much. CW puts out markers - he has just done it with Jags, he has also done it with Lenny. We might not get him this August, it might be next season if we are still in the market - but the marker has been laid down. CW seems very clever in his dealings.

UTB

Cheers for the reply FB.

In January it won't matter what he's worth because more people will know what he's about and IF he has a good season up until then his stock will rise considerably. I have no doubt that with it been the crazy January transfer window Southend will end up getting more than £350k on the last day of the window, that's football transfers for you!

My overriding view is that Wilder doesn't see Leonard as a first teamer, he sees him as a bit part player which he isn't to Southend, if this wasn't the case then I'd hasten to say his first bid, never mind his third would've been upward of £350k. Just my take mate.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Cheers for the reply FB.

In January it won't matter what he's worth because more people will know what he's about and IF he has a good season up until then his stock will rise considerably. I have no doubt that with it been the crazy January transfer window Southend will end up getting more than £350k on the last day of the window, that's football transfers for you!

My overriding view is that Wilder doesn't see Leonard as a first teamer, he sees him as a bit part player which he isn't to Southend, if this wasn't the case then I'd hasten to say his first bid, never mind his third would've been upward of £350k. Just my take mate.

Bit part? If he sees himself as bit part, then as a 25 year old, he should surely want to play football and go elsewhere.

Take your point about bit part though, but we are all speculating on formation. Perhaps CW has 4-4-2 in mind for this division and he sees Lenny as more of a 4. Evidence shows that we are not blessed with a 4 for midfield, perhaps Fleck and Leonard in centre mid is a permutation.

Don't you just love these guessing games.

UTB

 

[JJBlade]

Wilder should just up the offer or let everyone know he's no longer interested

Personally I cannot see how a player he rates as Championship quality cannot command a reasonable fee even if he's in the last year of his contract

I also cannot believe that the " Not paying over the odds" bolox is coming from Wilder either.
He's just warbling out the boardroom shit that he has to listen to every day

Managers spend half of every day trying to get more from the boardroom to enable them to do their jobs properly and Wilder will be no different

 

[wizadry]

Bit part? If he sees himself as bit part, then as a 25 year old, he should surely want to play football and go elsewhere.

Take your point about bit part though, but we are all speculating on formation. Perhaps CW has 4-4-2 in mind for this division and he sees Lenny as more of a 4. Evidence shows that we are not blessed with a 4 for midfield, perhaps Fleck and Leonard in centre mid is a permutation.

Don't you just love these guessing games.

UTB

My point was that he wouldn't be a bit part player to Southend but Wilder might only see him as a bit part player for us and that's why Wilder is only willing to bid that much, which is fair enough of course because that means were looking at better players and they must be good ones to be better than Leonard?

As you say, it's all guesswork but it's good to discuss it whilst pre season awaits.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Bored of this one now. If he signs, great. If he doesn't, don't care. Rubbish thread.

 

[wizadry]

Bored of this one now. If he signs, great. If he doesn't, don't care. Rubbish thread.

So if he signs it's great but if he doesn't then it doesn't matter?

Surely if you think it would be a great signing, then missing out on him would mean you'd be disappointed instead of not caring?

#rubbishthreadstayingalive.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

My point was that he wouldn't be a bit part player to Southend but Wilder might only see him as a bit part player for us and that's why Wilder is only willing to bid that much, which is fair enough of course because that means were looking at better players and they must be good ones to be better than Leonard?

As you say, it's all guesswork but it's good to discuss it whilst pre season awaits.

sorry, didn't explain quite right - yes, I thought you meant bit part for us.

The problem for us - what happens if Coutts and Fleck get injured - we are up the swanee. I liked Leonard 2 years ago as he ran the show for Southend - think it finished 2-2. We need options for CM, trouble is it's like good quality strikers, they are like rocking hose shit.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

sorry, didn't explain quite right - yes, I thought you meant bit part for us.

The problem for us - what happens if Coutts and Fleck get injured - we are up the swanee. I liked Leonard 2 years ago as he ran the show for Southend - think it finished 2-2. We need options for CM, trouble is it's like good quality strikers, they are like rocking hose shit.

UTB

No problem with Leonard coming in for either Fleck or Coutts if injured but again that's my point, Wilder could be only bringing him in for this reason hence only willing to bid for Leonard as a squad player and not a first teamer.

Squad player fee from buying club £400k ish.
First team player fee from buying club £700k ish and more towards Southends' valuation?

All guesswork but hopefully you get my drift FB.

 

[Pinchy]

Pinchy, I notice you gave no replies to my points on Harry? You make observations on Harry that are largely your opinion and nothing else. For example: Fans who liked Harry's football prefer long ball. I assume the silence means you have no answers?

I read what you said carefully. It didn't occur to me you were inviting a reply. I'm not a person with no answers but I don't always articulate them. I like to give others a chance.

 

[South Bucks]

sorry, didn't explain quite right - yes, I thought you meant bit part for us.

The problem for us - what happens if Coutts and Fleck get injured - we are up the swanee. I liked Leonard 2 years ago as he ran the show for Southend - think it finished 2-2. We need options for CM, trouble is it's like good quality strikers, they are like rocking hose shit.

UTB

The problem we may well have next season is even if Coutts and Fleck are fit other teams will have worked out they don't track back or do it lazily when we lose the ball high up the park so teams will draw us on to them then attack our unprotected defensive line with more skill and pace than in L1. Think of a many of the goals we conceded last season especially at away games. This is probably why we are fishing for a midfielder who can both defend and attack.