Quinny's Transfer

[DeepcarBlade]

There was a time when we did this....

Enter Andy Gray and Simon Francis!

 

[alcoblade]

We have our opinions

And yours are always negative. But this one is pathetic even by your standards. You were a massive critic of Quinn. You were a massive critic of the amount of money he was sucking from the club. And yet you claim the club should have got a decent transfer fee for him. Nonsense.

If you occassionally say something good about the club then your criticisms have more weight. As it is, they have none.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Surely the point of the posting here was questioning the financial logistics of the sale of Quinn to Hull. Does it matter whether Fiery actually like or dislikes Quinn, he was merely questioning the article from the Yorkshire Post.

I think some people on this thread have missed the point!

Perhaps I'm missing the point. In my world I think players I rate should command decent fees. Players I don't should be sold cheaply. Fiery wants it both ways.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

From reading that article, it may not be ruled out that there are other add ons in the deal, like for a play off finish, promotion, sell on etc.

 

[Fiery Blade]

And yours are always negative. But this one is pathetic even by your standards. You were a massive critic of Quinn. You were a massive critic of the amount of money he was sucking from the club. And yet you claim the club should have got a decent transfer fee for him. Nonsense.

If you occassionally say something good about the club then your criticisms have more weight. As it is, they have none.

UTB

So it now appears that:
I have to praise the club at regular intervals for my opinion to have weight!
Just because I criticised the amount of money he was on then we should let him go for next to nothing!
Any opinion different to the mighty Alcoblade's is pathetic!

I didn't happen to rate Quinn as highly as some people on this forum because I thought as a footballer he had gone backwards!
The reason I posted was that it was announced last year we had turned down a 'reported fee' from Blackpool of £350k - to then sell at £100k seemed to be bad business - but as Mr Alco says that my opinion has no relevance!!

PS: The use of bold to emphasise you point is so like shouting or raised voice- surely a man of your expert and revered opinions doesn't need to - keep calm!

 

[Blade58]

Looks like the terms to Hull are correct, although there are extra add ons not mentioned

From The Star:

United, who discovered en route to the Memorial Stadium that details of Stephen Quinn’s transfer to Hull City had been leaked, banked £18,000 in prize money for their cup triumph.

Sources at the KC Stadium have confirmed they will pay United £2,000 per game - up to a maximum of £100,000 - for the Irish midfielder’s services.

However, as The Star reported in August, that figure doesn’t take into account add on clauses, including a percentage of any future fee, which were inserted into the deal. United are also understood to be entitled to a bonus should Quinn help City win promotion."

 

[Fiery Blade]

Perhaps I'm missing the point. In my world I think players I rate should command decent fees. Players I don't should be sold cheaply. Fiery wants it both ways.

UTB

Perhaps when we sell any players we should check with Mr Alco as to whom should command decent fees and who we should sell cheaply!

 

[Highbury_Blade]

However, as The Star reported in August, that figure doesn’t take into account add on clauses, including a percentage of any future fee, which were inserted into the deal. United are also understood to be entitled to a bonus should Quinn help City win promotion."

So it now appears that:
I have to praise the club at regular intervals for my opinion to have weight!
Just because I criticised the amount of money he was on then we should let him go for next to nothing!
Any opinion different to the mighty Alcoblade's is pathetic!

I didn't happen to rate Quinn as highly as some people on this forum because I thought as a footballer he had gone backwards!
The reason I posted was that it was announced last year we had turned down a 'reported fee' from Blackpool of £350k - to then sell at £100k seemed to be bad business - but as Mr Alco says that my opinion has no relevance!!

PS: The use of bold to emphasise you point is so like shouting or raised voice- surely a man of your expert and revered opinions doesn't need to - keep calm!

Keep calm?

This is from a man who ends every sentence with an exclamation mark....

 

[Balham]

So it now appears that:
I have to praise the club at regular intervals for my opinion to have weight!

The reason I posted was that it was announced last year we had turned down a 'reported fee' from Blackpool of £350k - to then sell at £100k seemed to be bad business - but as Mr Alco says that my opinion has no relevance!!

Quinn also only had one year of his contract left. That alone would have halved his transfer fee.

It'll be £100k plus add-ons. Given the bonus that we shifted a £14k+ salary off the books it was as good a deal as we were going to get.

You can't compare the fee we received from Hull to the offer we turned down from Blackpool - they were under completely different circumstances.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Keep calm?

This is from a man who ends every sentence with an exclamation mark....

Well Observed Young Man !!!!!

 

[alcoblade]

Perhaps when we sell any players we should check with Mr Alco as to whom should command decent fees and who we should sell cheaply!

No need. I can guarantee up front that whetever the club does, you'll think it made the wrong move.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

No need. I can guarantee up front that whetever the club does, you'll think it made the wrong move.

UTB

Well Mr Alco, if you guarantee it, it must be right !

 

[super_pig]

don't worry about it fiery.. some people think that because you 'question' what is going on that makes you less of a fan.. or more imperceptibly.. make 'them' a 'bigger' fan than you

 

[Bladesway]

don't worry about it fiery.. some people think that because you 'question' what is going on that makes you less of a fan.. or more imperceptibly.. make 'them' a 'bigger' fan than you

Or in the case of Fiery if you just moan about anything and everything then you are just a miserable bastard. If you can go pick out a single piece of positive news/view that he has posted recently then perhaps I stand corrected but there is no balance.

Fans moan, its what we are good at. Particularly in the case of SUFC, but even a decapitated man with his eyes gouged out can see we didn't have a choice. We are losing money and our wage bill means we cannot sign players going forwards because of the new rules. Its not where anyone wants to be but I can fully understand why we did it.

Also, people used to moan like twats about Quinny being a waste of space, elpiton and all that stuff. Now he has left he is Ginger Messi? Amazing turnaround.

The balance here is we are selling because we have to. Its the previous years we should be furious about, not blustering about where we are now. We have wasted millions in pisspot campaigns to win the world cup, go to China etc etc. I can totally understand people getting bent out of shape about that, but selling a bloke for peanuts because we have no cash? Well thats a bit pointless.

P.S to balance the bigger blade argument, some of the biggest Blades I have met are the most miserable. Goes with the territory I suppose.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Also, people used to moan like twats about Quinny being a waste of space, elpiton and all that stuff. Now he has left he is Ginger Messi? Amazing turnaround.

Delicious irony. It does bring a wry smile to my face whenever this happens. A player is rubbish while he's with us then all of a sudden he's worth a few bob when it comes to selling him and questions are asked about why he went so cheaply.....mek yer minds up!

All it does is highlight the fact the some supporters will moan for the sake of moaning and will criticise because that's what they want to do. Either because they're bitter towards the club or because they're not actually Blades. It is probably more a case of the former but you do wonder sometimes. The bashing is oddly relentless!

 

[Revolution]

I don't care who has said what in the past. If we only get a maximum of 100k for Quinn, even given the situation we were in, that's a really poor deal. But then again the club has been giving players away at a steep discount in the name of "re-profiling" or whatever this week's buzz word is, since the Beattie deal, so it isn't surprising.

 

[alcoblade]

don't worry about it fiery.. some people think that because you 'question' what is going on that makes you less of a fan.. or more imperceptibly.. make 'them' a 'bigger' fan than you

I remember the time when several people fell out with me because of the way I criticised McCabe and his running of the club. I'm all for questioning, just not relentless criticism that bares no scrutiny whatsoever.

I expected a better understanding from you.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Or in the case of Fiery if you just moan about anything and everything then you are just a miserable bastard. If you can go pick out a single piece of positive news/view that he has posted recently then perhaps I stand corrected but there is no balance.

Fans moan, its what we are good at. Particularly in the case of SUFC, but even a decapitated man with his eyes gouged out can see we didn't have a choice. We are losing money and our wage bill means we cannot sign players going forwards because of the new rules. Its not where anyone wants to be but I can fully understand why we did it.

Also, people used to moan like twats about Quinny being a waste of space, elpiton and all that stuff. Now he has left he is Ginger Messi? Amazing turnaround.

The balance here is we are selling because we have to. Its the previous years we should be furious about, not blustering about where we are now. We have wasted millions in pisspot campaigns to win the world cup, go to China etc etc. I can totally understand people getting bent out of shape about that, but selling a bloke for peanuts because we have no cash? Well thats a bit pointless.

P.S to balance the bigger blade argument, some of the biggest Blades I have met are the most miserable. Goes with the territory I suppose.

Many Thanks for those few kind words Bladesway -
My point (though it is lost to those who do not wish to see) was that despite being strapped for cash we shouldn't sell our 'saleable' players for less than their market value - just because I didn't rate him that highly (he had the makings of a top class player but lost his way) he was still worth more than £100k.
I use the term 'saleable' because some clubs wanted him as against 'unsellable' players such as Monty and Cresswell that no club wanted - we couldn't give them away.
As regards the 'Ginger Messi' statement - just because people happen to think he may be worth a tad more than £100k doesn't make him a fantastic player - when we are talking about Championship clubs paying £8million pounds for a striker with just one seasons pedigree - it speaks volumes - is Jordan Rhodes worth 80 times the worth of Stephen Quinn- no I don't think so!
I for one have witnessed for many years United continually sell their better players for peanuts and whilst I thought that Quinn very rarely played to his potential I still think he was worth a bit more than £100k - lets face it Ashley Cole has just turned down double that for a weeks wages!!

 

[Darren]

Many Thanks for those few kind words Bladesway -
My point (though it is lost to those who do not wish to see) was that despite being strapped for cash we shouldn't sell our 'saleable' players for less than their market value - just because I didn't rate him that highly (he had the makings of a top class player but lost his way) he was still worth more than £100k.
I use the term 'saleable' because some clubs wanted him as against 'unsellable' players such as Monty and Cresswell that no club wanted - we couldn't give them away.
As regards the 'Ginger Messi' statement - just because people happen to think he may be worth a tad more than £100k doesn't make him a fantastic player - when we are talking about Championship clubs paying £8million pounds for a striker with just one seasons pedigree - it speaks volumes - is Jordan Rhodes worth 80 times the worth of Stephen Quinn- no I don't think so!
I for one have witnessed for many years United continually sell their better players for peanuts and whilst I thought that Quinn very rarely played to his potential I still think he was worth a bit more than £100k - lets face it Ashley Cole has just turned down double that for a weeks wages!!

You seem to be a little confused about the concept of "market value". Say I desparetly need £100K to stave off bankruptcy. My only saleable assets is my house that has a "market value" of £200K. I put my house on the market and all potential buyers know that I need that £100K desperately and will have to sell for that figure if that is all I can get. I rather suspect that all the offers I would get would come in around that £100K mark.

 

[Rodders]

Don't forget folks - losing to Burton Albion in the LC was still a great result.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I don't care who has said what in the past. If we only get a maximum of 100k for Quinn, even given the situation we were in, that's a really poor deal. But then again the club has been giving players away at a steep discount in the name of "re-profiling" or whatever this week's buzz word is, since the Beattie deal, so it isn't surprising.

I agree that it was a poor deal for us. I like Quinny as a player and feel he's worth a lot more than that but on the other hand I acknowledge that our current situation dictates and that he had to be moved on quickly. I do think we sell players too cheaply at times but it seemed pretty unavoidable on this occasion given the new FFP rules.

What some of us are saying is that these things are used as a stick to beat this message board (and the club) with even though some people seem to contradict their long standing opinions. The present topic is just being used as context to emphasise this point.

 

[davidpinder]

Don't you just love the search box?

Yes its a good tool because on the same day this was posted on the OS. Now if i am not mistaken quinny started the season therefore we were ok with the wage limit with him playing so i ask why sell unless it was a Naughton, walker, lowton style deal which as a championship or league 1 side "is an offer we can not turn down".

Pastey: Scarborough Group, controlled by the McCabe family, announces that an invitation has been extended to Jacob Esan of Nigeria to become a director of both Scarborough United Group plc (SUG) and Sheffield United plc (SU plc). SUG is a wholly owned subsidiary of Scarborough Group International Ltd (SGIL) which has an 85% shareholding in SU plc, which is the parent company of the famous Sheffield United FC (SUFC).
Mr Esan will be working alongside the McCabes principally to facilitate the provision of capital from Nigeria permitting SGIL via SUG to further expand its businesses in real estate, leisure and services - with Football at its hub. It is envisaged that new funds of up to $500 million will become available within a six to nine month period for SUG to invest in all three business divisions and in particular in SUFC to assist in financing both First Team and Academy football. This is a part of the commitment by the McCabe family and Mr Esan to see the Blades returning to the top echelon of English football at the earliest opportunity. Mr Esan intends also to replicate similar skills and experience in his home nation and Africa in general. He also hopes to secure sponsors for SUFC from Africa.
Jacob Esan commented: "Working with the other members of the Scarborough team to create a major independent group with football as its core branded business, is an exciting challenge which I will relish. Given the anticipated size and scale of the reorganised group - and with it the famous Sheffield United - I believe the opportunity to access capital to advance the business interests in our three divisions - is of great importance. I am committed to expanding all of SUG's off the field activities taking advantage of opportunities available both in the UK and globally as a result of the continuing economic recession."
Jacob Esan, one of Nigeria's leading investment bankers, is the Founder and Chairman of Jacob Esan Plc. a principal investment company. He is currently Executive Director, Investment Banking (Public Sector) at DEAP Capital Management & Trust Plc., a financial services and investment banking company with a focus on fund and portfolio management, issuing house and financial advisory services. Jacob has served with the Central Bank of Nigeria as a lead consultant for the Capital Market framework/strategy and a consultant for the Regulatory Framework/Strategy of the FSS Vision 20 2020; a vision to transmute Nigeria into one of the top twenty economies of the world by 2020. He has also advised several facilitating financial services bodies in Nigeria.
SGIL - the present owner of SUG and ultimate controlling party of SU plc - already holds substantial real estate throughout the UK and internationally with subsidiary associated or connected companies in the Far East, China and Australia. Through other McCabe owned organisations the Group's global reach includes interests in North America, Europe and India.
Kevin McCabe, Chairman of Scarborough, commented: "We are delighted to extend this invitation to Jacob to become a director on the boards of Scarborough United Group and Sheffield United. As a new member Jacob will collaborate with other directors to steer the new Scarborough United Group to attain its strategic goals."
Scott McCabe, Director of Scarborough, commented "Over the course of the last nine months, we have met with Jacob on many occasions and have much recognised his skills and enthusiasm to assist in making the Group, including Sheffield United FC, a success and also in raising funds in Africa and creating opportunities to allow Scarborough Leisure to expand its activities throughout the country and internationally."

 

[Darren]

Yes its a good tool because on the same day this was posted on the OS. Now if i am not mistaken quinny started the season therefore we were ok with the wage limit with him playing so i ask why sell unless it was a Naughton, walker, lowton style deal which as a championship or league 1 side "is an offer we can not turn down".

Pastey: Scarborough Group, controlled by the McCabe family, announces that an invitation has been extended to Jacob Esan of Nigeria to become a director of both Scarborough United Group plc (SUG) and Sheffield United plc (SU plc). SUG is a wholly owned subsidiary of Scarborough Group International Ltd (SGIL) which has an 85% shareholding in SU plc, which is the parent company of the famous Sheffield United FC (SUFC).
Mr Esan will be working alongside the McCabes principally to facilitate the provision of capital from Nigeria permitting SGIL via SUG to further expand its businesses in real estate, leisure and services - with Football at its hub. It is envisaged that new funds of up to $500 million will become available within a six to nine month period for SUG to invest in all three business divisions and in particular in SUFC to assist in financing both First Team and Academy football. This is a part of the commitment by the McCabe family and Mr Esan to see the Blades returning to the top echelon of English football at the earliest opportunity. Mr Esan intends also to replicate similar skills and experience in his home nation and Africa in general. He also hopes to secure sponsors for SUFC from Africa.
Jacob Esan commented: "Working with the other members of the Scarborough team to create a major independent group with football as its core branded business, is an exciting challenge which I will relish. Given the anticipated size and scale of the reorganised group - and with it the famous Sheffield United - I believe the opportunity to access capital to advance the business interests in our three divisions - is of great importance. I am committed to expanding all of SUG's off the field activities taking advantage of opportunities available both in the UK and globally as a result of the continuing economic recession."
Jacob Esan, one of Nigeria's leading investment bankers, is the Founder and Chairman of Jacob Esan Plc. a principal investment company. He is currently Executive Director, Investment Banking (Public Sector) at DEAP Capital Management & Trust Plc., a financial services and investment banking company with a focus on fund and portfolio management, issuing house and financial advisory services. Jacob has served with the Central Bank of Nigeria as a lead consultant for the Capital Market framework/strategy and a consultant for the Regulatory Framework/Strategy of the FSS Vision 20 2020; a vision to transmute Nigeria into one of the top twenty economies of the world by 2020. He has also advised several facilitating financial services bodies in Nigeria.
SGIL - the present owner of SUG and ultimate controlling party of SU plc - already holds substantial real estate throughout the UK and internationally with subsidiary associated or connected companies in the Far East, China and Australia. Through other McCabe owned organisations the Group's global reach includes interests in North America, Europe and India.
Kevin McCabe, Chairman of Scarborough, commented: "We are delighted to extend this invitation to Jacob to become a director on the boards of Scarborough United Group and Sheffield United. As a new member Jacob will collaborate with other directors to steer the new Scarborough United Group to attain its strategic goals."
Scott McCabe, Director of Scarborough, commented "Over the course of the last nine months, we have met with Jacob on many occasions and have much recognised his skills and enthusiasm to assist in making the Group, including Sheffield United FC, a success and also in raising funds in Africa and creating opportunities to allow Scarborough Leisure to expand its activities throughout the country and internationally."

I think its probably true that when something really is famous, they don't need to keep asserting it. "The famous Manchester United" anyone?

 

[Fiery Blade]

You seem to be a little confused about the concept of "market value". Say I desparetly need £100K to stave off bankruptcy. My only saleable assets is my house that has a "market value" of £200K. I put my house on the market and all potential buyers know that I need that £100K desperately and will have to sell for that figure if that is all I can get. I rather suspect that all the offers I would get would come in around that £100K mark.

Not confused whatsoever - If the market value is worth £200k then I would expect offers in the region of £150k upwards - the fact that they advertised the fact that they were skint and would accept just £100k then set the benchmark
Lets face it, our track record at 'financials' is pretty poor - perhaps having supported them for more than 50 years I should know better than to expect to see 'sound financial sense'

 

[Darren]

Not confused whatsoever - If the market value is worth £200k then I would expect offers in the region of £150k upwards - the fact that they advertised the fact that they were skint and would accept just £100k then set the benchmark
Lets face it, our track record at 'financials' is pretty poor - perhaps having supported them for more than 50 years I should know better than to expect to see 'sound financial sense'

Exactly. We had effectively advertised what dire straits we were in and thus set a very low benchmark. And we didn't have any choice over the advertising.

As someone else has said, this idea that we routinely give away players is a complete myth.

 

[secretchief]

I think its probably true that when something really is famous, they don't need to keep asserting it. "The famous Manchester United" anyone?

'Famous' is a word which should arguably never be used, since if something is famous you'll already have heard of it, so the usage is superfluous. And if it isn't, what are you saying it for?

 

[Darren]

'Famous' is a word which should arguably never be used, since if something is famous you'll already have heard of it, so the usage is superfluous. And if it isn't, what are you saying it for?

Ah, but you could use it in phrases like "when will I be famous?

 

[Fiery Blade]

Obviously, it appears that if you don't question anything the club does, carry on as if everything is rosy, and leave it to Messrs McCabe & Co - No Problems and your opinion counts for Jack Sh!t

 

[Sothall_Blade]

£100K is a disappointing fee to receive for Quinn anyway. The part that raises eyebrows most is that we accepted an offer of just £2K every time he plays a game. If he'd got a bad injury on his debut, we would only have got £2K for (as Bruce says) "our best player". As it stands, we won't get the full £100K until next October at the earliest. So much for needing the money badly.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that a bigger wedge up front couldn't have been negotiated. I can't remember any other deals of this kind, hopefully it's not something we're planning to repeat, as it's a hell of a risky strategy.

As David Pinder pointed out, we began the season with Quinn on the wage bill and were still able to sign new players. Now despite getting Quinn off the wage bill, we're suddenly not able to bring in a short-term replacement even on loan. What's the point of offloading quality for peanuts to avoid a transfer embargo if we're just going to impose one on ourselves anyway?

 

[super_pig]

umm calm down everyone .. i was defending fiery's right to moan that's all
on the elpiton issue i was jumping with delight when i left as i thought he was a tad overrated actually.. my opinion 'certainly' hasn't changed on that one