Project Restart - Hoping for 8th June

[wavy-blade]

"Premier League 'threaten bottom three with relegation' if restart proposals blocked"

That`s it were done then

 

[HVR]

What the EPL should have done on inception, is create the rules for if a season gets cancelled. They didn't, and who really would imagine all those years ago, such a situation occurring? But what the clubs decide now, will set the precedent for the future. So all clubs need to bear this in mind. Norwich will probably have been relegated this season anyway. What if they cancel relegation this year, get relegated the season after, and then are 20 points clear in the Championship - 3 games left of the season and COVID-19 strikes again? Would they be happy to sit in the Championship for a year? Or if Villa survive, then find themselves with a shot of Champions League next season, but C-19 strikes again with a few games left, would they be prepared to play games in a neutral venue to finish the season? Yes, of course they would.
And that's the problem, it's a totally unknown thing in modern times - but is decided this season could influence future leagues.
I understand what Ball_Sup (Phil) says and agree in the short term, if this never happens again, then what he predicts is correct.
BUT! There is a huge difference between playing the season out behind closed doors at neutral grounds and cancelling the League. I mean in terms of setting precedents.
For instance. Spurs got the nod to play at Wembley while their ground was being re-developed - a team playing in a different ground, so it's not a short leap to imagine other clubs doing that. That's a solution that can be tweaked going forward - ie; the EPL at the start of next season, nominate grounds and crowd control to finish the season.
Due to some racism at grounds, there's also been the situation of clubs playing behind closed doors. Again, something that has happened before that can be adjusted.
However, cancelling the season, or cancelling relegation / promotion is a new and totally different outcome. If they do that, then going forward the precedent set for a league to be cancelled if players are ill due to a virus is way beyond the norm.
EPL cannot cancel the season, nor can they abolish relegation. It would just simply change totally going forward the rules of the league. Swapping grounds can be tweaked, but cancelling the season cannot.

 

[HVR]

.

 

[munksyb]

Based on last seasons tables & Promotion/Relegation, EPL agreed to deals with TV sponsors / the FA UEFA and the EFL
TV Sponsorship agreeing monies to be paid for screening live games, and how it is to be shared out with the 20 clubs that compose the EPL
FA regarding how the EPL function within the English FA rules
UEFA regarding the entry qualifications into European cups
EFL regarding promotin & relegation

All 20 EPL clubs signed up to this accepting the promise of TV monies UEFA cup entries & promotion & relegation with EFL

This has been the case & has been accepted throughout the history of the EPL

So whatever arrangements the EPL put to the clubs must be done with the intention of fullfilling these obligations that everyone signed up to, as a basis for being member of the EPL, as far as possible.

So at the outset of the Monday meeting, the EPL should tell the 20 clubs of their contract with the EPL, and re-itterate that monies paid in advance & in future must be protected , by ensuring as far as possible all games scheduled as part of the agreement must be played, and the competitiveness is part and parcel of that, in parrallel with the agreement with th EFL Promotion & relegation , which is the only way that you can ensure competitiveness.

The above is not for discusion.

The discussion is around how we make it safe, and schedule it in a way that the 20 clubs fullfill their responsibility.

Any of the 20 that feel they cannot fullfill their agreement, should pay back any monies they have been paid in advance of the TV agreement, will be withdrawn from the EPL, and must seek entry into another league for the future.

 

[Davalon]

They are on the coronavirus thread at the minute with their Political Expert hats on & Science Expert hats on.
And as if by magic if the PL does finish they will totally disappear.

Repainting their The End is Nigh A-boards

 

[HVR]

As a Blades supporter, and as our club is safe, whatever the result - it doesn't really effect us whatever the EPL decide, apart from the three rubbish teams in the league playing us again, as opposed to the three (maybe) worst teams playing us next season, so does it make any difference if the bottom teams are Aston Villa, Norwich or Bournemouth, or Leeds, West Bromwich and Fulham?
The funny thing though is, was that the 14-6 rule was created so that the 'Top Six' was given power, but it now conspires that it's the bottom six that are going to change the rules of the EPL?

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Premier League clubs discuss kick-off times and free-to-air games
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52571598

May be 45 free games. 47 on Sky and BT.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Based on last seasons tables & Promotion/Relegation, EPL agreed to deals with TV sponsors / the FA UEFA and the EFL
TV Sponsorship agreeing monies to be paid for screening live games, and how it is to be shared out with the 20 clubs that compose the EPL
FA regarding how the EPL function within the English FA rules
UEFA regarding the entry qualifications into European cups
EFL regarding promotin & relegation

All 20 EPL clubs signed up to this accepting the promise of TV monies UEFA cup entries & promotion & relegation with EFL

This has been the case & has been accepted throughout the history of the EPL

So whatever arrangements the EPL put to the clubs must be done with the intention of fullfilling these obligations that everyone signed up to, as a basis for being member of the EPL, as far as possible.

So at the outset of the Monday meeting, the EPL should tell the 20 clubs of their contract with the EPL, and re-itterate that monies paid in advance & in future must be protected , by ensuring as far as possible all games scheduled as part of the agreement must be played, and the competitiveness is part and parcel of that, in parrallel with the agreement with th EFL Promotion & relegation , which is the only way that you can ensure competitiveness.

The above is not for discusion.

The discussion is around how we make it safe, and schedule it in a way that the 20 clubs fullfill their responsibility.

Any of the 20 that feel they cannot fullfill their agreement, should pay back any monies they have been paid in advance of the TV agreement, will be withdrawn from the EPL, and must seek entry into another league for the future.

The 20 Clubs ARE the EPL. There is no separate thing called the EPL which can tell the Clubs anything. People are looking for some "higher authority" to impose things on the Clubs. There isn't one. The only authority is a 14-6 vote.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The 20 Clubs ARE the EPL. There is no separate thing called the EPL which can tell the Clubs anything. People are looking for some "higher authority" to impose things on the Clubs. There isn't one. The only authority is a 14-6 vote.

Aren't the FA the higher authority?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Aren't the FA the higher authority?

Regulatory Body

 

[Niceguyeddie]

How about deciding every game on penalties? It could all be done and dusted in a single day, with only two players on the pitch at any one time.

Everyone accepts pens are a lottery, but we are happy to use them to settle play offs, FA and League Cup ties and European ties.

Aren't the FA the higher authority?

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[Isar]

One of the many rumours about SUFC Pre Season 2019-20 was a game at Union Berlin. (As you'll recall, we ended up in Faro & Reims). I did a bit of research on Union Berlin at the time. A fascinating history. As they're an East Berlin club. 2019-20 is their first season in Bundesliga 1. Having been in Bundesliga 3 as recently as 2008/09. In that 2008 season, they decided they had little choice but to upgrade their Stadion An Der Alten Försterei. However, financially, they hadn't a pot to piss in. So, the Union fans simply built the ground themselves. Two thousand of 'em. Chucking in 140,000 working hours. It holds 22k. But only 3.6k are seats.
As it happens the Carrier Bag Firm have been on SUFC Pre Season in Germany. v TUS Celle, TSV Havelse & TSV Friesen. None of those anywhere near the Bundesliga I'm afraid.

Back in 2016 I did go to the 1860 Munich vs Union Berlin Bundesliga 2 game. Apart from the result I don't remember too much about it, a dull game with a 1:2 win for Union.
The day did involved lots of beer and getting home in a drunken state.

 

[s4-blade]

So categorically, by the letter of the law, null and void is not an option and neither is restarting with no relegation.

The only two options are

a restart to the season with full relagation/promotion/qualification at the end of it.

or

points per game up to now with relegation/promotion/qualification based on that.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "No Relegation" option.
Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "Neutral Grounds" option.
Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "Behind Closed Doors" option.
By default I'm drifting into the Fuck It, stop paying the Players, mothball the lot, everyone take their chances, see where we are as and when SUFC games can be played in front of you & me, whether that's at Bramall Lane or Graves Park, this decade, or the next.
I'm not proposing that. I've just got no appetite for the other "it's not football" suggestions doing the rounds.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

So categorically, by the letter of the law, null and void is not an option and neither is restarting with no relegation.

Rick Parry basically flagged yesterday at the CMS Committee hearing that the FA wouldn’t go with no relegation, and that going against that would breach the agreements in place when the Premier League was founded. And Parry knows his stuff – he helped found the league, and without him nobody would have been made aware of West Ham breaking the rules re: third party ownership.

 

[Onetouchfootball]

Totally agree Bruce.

Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "No Relegation" option.
Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "Neutral Grounds" option.
Me, personally, I've got no appetite for any "Behind Closed Doors" option.
By default I'm drifting into the Fuck It, stop paying the Players, mothball the lot, everyone take their chances, see where we are as and when SUFC games can be played in front of you & me, whether that's at Bramall Lane or Graves Park, this decade, or the next.
I'm not proposing that. I've just got no appetite for the other "it's not football" suggestions doing the rounds.

Do you honestly believe that our club and many others would still be around by "mothballing for a decade" or possibly 2?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Do you honestly believe that our club and many others would still be around by "mothballing for a decade" or possibly 2?

I believe that, if necessary, there would be "legacy" clubs replacing many of those that go out of business. "This" Sheffield United that I was supporting in March 2019 is a very different club to "the one" I was supporting in March 1969. Things change. I'm firmly against the business model run by most Premier League & Championship clubs. Including the business model used by United. The money is running out - so, we have to play "non-football". Not for me.

 

[Onetouchfootball]

Do you honestly believe that our club and many others would still be around by "mothballing for a decade" or possibly 2?

Unfortunately, as many others have already pointed out on here, sooner or later we are going to have to grow a pair and try to start life again, or there will be no life to come back out to.

I will admit it, I am as concerned as the next person and having a Daughter with lung scarring and heart issues already, it is really worrying for us, but we are going to have to try and get back to something like sooner or later, taking a few risks, whilst trying to look after ourselves and our families as best as we can.

 

[Onetouchfootball]

I believe that, if necessary, there would be "legacy" clubs replacing many of those that go out of business. "This" Sheffield United that I was supporting in March 2019 is a very different club to "the one" I was supporting in March 1969. Things change. I'm firmly against the business model run by most Premier League & Championship clubs. Including the business model used by United. The money is running out - so, we have to play "non-football". Not for me.

"including the business model used by United" get real mate, the club is as well run as it could be at the minute, competing within one of the best leagues in the world and doing our very proud fan base a fantastic service.

Well done to SUFC and Chris/Alan.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

"including the business model used by United" get real mate, the club is as well run as it could be at the minute, competing within one of the best leagues in the world and doing our very proud fan base a fantastic service.

Well done to SUFC and Chris/Alan.

No worries. We can disagree.

 

[Onetouchfootball]

No worries. We can disagree.

Apologies Phil, probably a bit of frustration at my end mate. We have a difference of opinion, that's all.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Sheffield United: Chris Wilder will respect any player who chooses not to play
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52582474

 

[8lade]

Sheffield United: Chris Wilder will respect any player who chooses not to play
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52582474

I suppose as a manager I would have to respect their wishes, as for the person...no chance.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Apologies Phil, probably a bit of frustration at my end mate. We have a difference of opinion, that's all.

I can’t speak for Ball_Sup (Phil) but whilst I agree that our club is run well, it is being run well within the business model that is the Premier League. The way the Premier League is run and the state of the leagues below it (as we know all about just a few seasons ago) is hardly run for the benefit of football. I think if we weren’t in our first season back in the top flight we might have a different view of how the Premier League is conducting itself.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I suppose as a manager I would have to respect their wishes, as for the person...no chance.

What if they live with someone at risk for various reasons. Football is just a game.

Priorities.

 

[YES Blade]

What if they live with someone at risk for various reasons. Football is just a game.

Priorities.

I’d like to think there would be a compromise to be made. For example, move in with a team mate until the season is completed. The Villa player who lives with his mother-in-law could potentially move out for a few months leaving his wife at home with her mother.

If the player lived alone with a vulnerable relative and the player provided some kind of support, then that’s a totally different situation and understandable if he decided not to play.

But at the end of the day, it’s up to each individual.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I’d like to think there would be a compromise to be made. For example, move in with a team mate until the season is completed. The Villa player who lives with his mother-in-law could potentially move out for a few months leaving his wife at home with her mother.

If the player lived alone with a vulnerable relative and the player provided some kind of support, then that’s a totally different situation and understandable if he decided not to play.

But at the end of the day, it’s up to each individual.

I am not going to demand how people live their lives so people can kick a ball around to fulfil TV contracts.

 

[blade67]

I’d like to think there would be a compromise to be made. For example, move in with a team mate until the season is completed. The Villa player who lives with his mother-in-law could potentially move out for a few months leaving his wife at home with her mother.

If the player lived alone with a vulnerable relative and the player provided some kind of support, then that’s a totally different situation and understandable if he decided not to play.

But at the end of the day, it’s up to each individual.

and it is possible that this scenario exists but I'd suggest that it probably applies to 0.1% of professional footballers. there are 500-600 players affected so the number that have an unsupportable issue is going to be very close to zero.

The truth is that they often travel away as a group for a number of days (so effectively self isolating). This would be an extension of that. They would be comprehensively tested throughout and they have direct access to medical support and advice anyway. In addition, they generally have strong lungs and heart function and are young. The risks to them personally are very low indeed

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I am not going to demand how people live their lives so people can kick a ball around to fulfil TV contracts.

It's not football anymore! (and it's not about VAR)

• Playing in some neutral empty stadium
• Playing shortened halves
• Players deciding if they want to play or not
• 5 subs
• No relegation

Seriously is that a brand that excites?

I'd rather wait, finish this whenever we can properly and delay/scrap next season

 

[YES Blade]

I am not going to demand how people live their lives so people can kick a ball around to fulfil TV contracts.

It’s all about judging each case individually. I’d like to think most players would want to help their team to win matches. If that meant they had to move out of their home for a few months, I don’t think that’s a huge sacrifice for a manager to expect from his player.

If the player has a health issue which puts them at risk or if they moved out it would leave their elderly grandparent alone. In those situations, I think a manager would be understanding and it wouldn’t be an issue.