Be very careful what you say...

[Dkc]

Here you go then.

“Is it a Hate Crime?
Yes, officially now it can be considered such. The Crown Prosecution Service have confirmed that it considers the term ‘rent boy’ to be a homophobic slur, meaning that those using it could be liable for prosecution under hate crime laws.”

From the rainbow devils article quoted earlier.

Yes, I'm aware that the government considers it a homophobic slur. That's what this thread's all about.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Banter? err no
Ok it's wrong, but must happen every game, every week. Few pints in, got wound up. Don't be the unlucky one.

 

[shorehamview]

Yes, I'm aware that the government considers it a homophobic slur. That's what this thread's all about.

So is that convincing evidence or not?

 

[Dkc]

So is that convincing evidence or not?

No, it's a government policy position

 

[b1ade4life]

So straight blokes can't be rent boys?

Is there something you want to tell us, we won't judge??

 

[Rochdaleblade]

Is there something you want to tell us, we won't judge??

I've already said in this thread, a kid from my class in school was living as a rent boy in the 90s. He insisted that he was "rent, not bent".
It did seem a tad gay at the time.

 

[b1ade4life]

I've already said in this thread, a kid from my class in school was living as a rent boy in the 90s. He insisted that he was "rent, not bent".
It did seem a tad gay at the time.

Every holes a goal I suppose

 

[North Riding Blade]

Last reply for now (working up the thread and even I’m getting bored with myself ).

‘It’s abusive, no doubt’. Like you I’m not sure what type of legal action is best (and as you say I suspect there was probably more context, but we are speculating). There is of course also the specific legal and cultural context of that match as explained in the article.

It seems the action was a three year banning order and counselling. What action would you suggest instead? If it was racist chanting would it be the same?

Pleased that was your last reply for a bit.
Yep, was getting bored of your wokey crap as well. But I'm sure you will be back shortly though to correct us all on what you might think we should be thinking/doing/saying.

 

[Gimli]

Pleased that was your last reply for a bit.
Yep, was getting bored of your wokey crap as well. But I'm sure you will be back shortly though to correct us all on what you might think we should be thinking/doing/saying.

 

[Freethinker]

View attachment 205290

Matter of opinion which is what it's all about

 

[Dkc]

Pleased that was your last reply for a bit.
Yep, was getting bored of your wokey crap as well. But I'm sure you will be back shortly though to correct us all on what you might think we should be thinking/doing/saying.

To be fair NickyD is definitely one of the sharper posters on the forum, and generally comes up with decent arguments.

 

[Dkc]

Thanks for the reply. So is it different if it is homophobic ‘hurty words’?

Nope - "whore" is a misogynistic slur that has come to refer to far more than a woman's profession. "Rent boy" has always just described rent boys to me. It would be similar to calling someone a "burger-flipper" or a "doley". Not nice but not aimed at all gay men.

 

[knowsnowt]

Uncle Susan once got called a rent boy for doing top for £10. He went ballistic.
I managed to calm her down by reminding him she identifies as a woman so he's actually a rent lass.
It's a fucking good job I'm such an understanding diplomatic sort and was there for him, as being mislabelled really gets to her mentally.

 

[JayGreen17]

I’m gay, I wouldn’t have thought “rent” boy as being a homophobic slur, bum boy yes, also what kind of shit name calling is “rent boy” in 2025..

 

[Dkc]

what kind of shit name calling is “rent boy” in 2025..

Specifically directed at Chelsea (given the hooligan rent boy story and the local area's former reputation) it's a natural topic to wind up their fans. Like Scousers having the wheels of your car or the Welsh shagging sheep. (Which incidentally I think is still allowed (the insult not the practice). Fans don't really think that all Scousers are thieves, all Welshmen are into bestiality or all Chelsea fans are rent boys. Fans seize on stereotypes, as part of football "banter". The vast majority of fans aren't homophobic (or racist, or whatever) in the slightest. We live in a very accepting society these days. More so than ever.

I've never heard the term "rent boy" used as a general slur that can be applied to every gay man. If the language changes, my views would change.

 

[Nickydblade]

Yes of course, we all can learn new things. If someome comes up with convincing evidence that 'rent boy' is commonly used as a form of 'hate speech' against gay people and an incitement to violence I'd oppose it's use.

However, I've never heard the term 'rent boy' used in that context (unlike say 'faggot'). It can be used in a derogatory way for sure but as I've said, it's derogatory towards young men who sell their arse for money, not gay people.

I can accept that some people may believe that selling your arse for money is a noble profession, and can therefore understand them taking offence.

That is your understanding and it is perfectly reasonable not to have come across the other negative connotations before, just as some people in the past genuinely did not think using some racial slurs was problematic (however it is very unlikely any ‘proper’ Chelsea fan would be in this position).

Here is a clear Chelsea statement:




And here is more context from them. It is short and simple to understand:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/qtmbc4...246f80a7ceefcc/Chelsea_Rent_Boy_Briefing_.pdf

I have also pointed out that people close to me consider that term personally offensive and unwelcoming. Of course not everyone will agree, but over time culture shifts and most fans follow those norms, for example we condemn racist chanting. Some are clearly not there yet with what many consider to be homophobic chanting, but perhaps discussions like these can throw more light than heat on the issue.

So, there is the counter argument to your own personal understanding. As I said before, If you choose to stick to your guns and use the chant then so be it, but hopefully there is now more understanding of how some others may not like it.

 

[Flumps]

I’m gay, I wouldn’t have thought “rent” boy as being a homophobic slur, bum boy yes, also what kind of shit name calling is “rent boy” in 2025..

Well it's quite retro at least. The F word has been mentioned a few times on this thread which a mate of mine used a few weeks ago, it did make me laugh as I'd not heard it since I was about 13 in school.

I think with these things we naturally want to solve the question about what's offensive and what isn't but like alot of things it just isn't a clear yes or no answer. Racial offensive are pretty clear cut but even those can fall in to grey areas - if we're going to waste time prosecuting anyone who says anything offensive then for me we either turn society in to a Black Mirror like society living in fear of offending anyone and everyone or spend zamillions on the police force to crack down on the offenders.

If I was to hazard a guess I'd say the government will pump cash in to police departments to set up teams to combat "online hate and hate speech" while complaining there's zero cash for the police departments that are tasked with solving actual crimes and we as the public will have zero fucking clue whether the next word we say will land us in hot water or not. This may sound like I've got my finest tin foil hat out this morning but it does feel like we're heading for very dangerous terrain. I'm just thankful I don't cock about with social media, at least I can win that half of the battle.

 

[Nickydblade]

Pleased that was your last reply for a bit.
Yep, was getting bored of your wokey crap as well. But I'm sure you will be back shortly though to correct us all on what you might think we should be thinking/doing/saying.

Hello again . I am only reacting to an agenda others have set, and trying to give the counter argument to those who have commented about a specific incident.

Do you think things like the campaigns to eradicate racist chanting are ‘wokey crap’?

 

[Nickydblade]

Nope - "whore" is a misogynistic slur that has come to refer to far more than a woman's profession. "Rent boy" has always just described rent boys to me. It would be similar to calling someone a "burger-flipper" or a "doley". Not nice but not aimed at all gay men.

‘Just described to me’.

I have just given different interpretations so now, as with almost all language, there are choices to be made about how we use it. Apologies for the repetition but I’m trying to reply to any post that quotes me directly

 

[Dkc]

‘Just described to me’.

I have just given different interpretations so now, as with almost all language, there are choices to be made about how we use it. Apologies for the repetition but I’m trying to reply to any post that quotes me directly

As I said, I've never heard rent boy

That is your understanding and it is perfectly reasonable not to have come across the other negative connotations before, just as some people in the past genuinely did not think using some racial slurs was problematic (however it is very unlikely any ‘proper’ Chelsea fan would be in this position).

Here is a clear Chelsea statement:

View attachment 205307
View attachment 205308

And here is more context from them. It is short and simple to understand:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/qtmbc4...246f80a7ceefcc/Chelsea_Rent_Boy_Briefing_.pdf

I have also pointed out that people close to me consider that term personally offensive and unwelcoming. Of course not everyone will agree, but over time culture shifts and most fans follow those norms, for example we condemn racist chanting. Some are clearly not there yet with what many consider to be homophobic chanting, but perhaps discussions like these can throw more light than heat on the issue.

So, there is the counter argument to your own personal understanding. As I said before, If you choose to stick to your guns and use the chant then so be it, but hopefully there is now more understanding of how some others may not like it.

 

[Nickydblade]

Well it's quite retro at least. The F word has been mentioned a few times on this thread which a mate of mine used a few weeks ago, it did make me laugh as I'd not heard it since I was about 13 in school.

I think with these things we naturally want to solve the question about what's offensive and what isn't but like alot of things it just isn't a clear yes or no answer. Racial offensive are pretty clear cut but even those can fall in to grey areas - if we're going to waste time prosecuting anyone who says anything offensive then for me we either turn society in to a Black Mirror like society living in fear of offending anyone and everyone or spend zamillions on the police force to crack down on the offenders.

If I was to hazard a guess I'd say the government will pump cash in to police departments to set up teams to combat "online hate and hate speech" while complaining there's zero cash for the police departments that are tasked with solving actual crimes and we as the public will have zero fucking clue whether the next word we say will land us in hot water or not. This may sound like I've got my finest tin foil hat out this morning but it does feel like we're heading for very dangerous terrain. I'm just thankful I don't cock about with social media, at least I can win that half of the battle.

I agree with all of that, including fears about not being sure what offends people.

This thread started about a specific example about what may or may not offend people and there has been a mainly reasonable discussion.

One way to react to it is to dismiss changes in culture as ‘wokey crap’. We all have our own lines about this, for example you seem to have fully accepted some racial terms are ‘clear cut’ so you are on board with some of it, but I agree some things are grey areas and there are no absolute rights or wrongs. I’ve disagreed myself with some ostensibly ‘woke’ opinions about language use, but I have also sometimes changed my mind.

My own take is that homophobic chanting, like racist chanting, is something we should try to eradicate. Fan culture has come a long way in a relatively short time (for example the Brighton fan experience, or the gnashing of teeth we had on here with the first ‘rainbow’ initiatives at the Lane that now seem to pass with very little negative reaction). However the issue is obviously far from ‘clear cut’ in many people’s opinions, so I think it is better to talk about these things, hopefully politely and rationally rather than getting upset and calling names.

 

[Dkc]

That is your understanding and it is perfectly reasonable not to have come across the other negative connotations before, just as some people in the past genuinely did not think using some racial slurs was problematic (however it is very unlikely any ‘proper’ Chelsea fan would be in this position).

Here is a clear Chelsea statement:

View attachment 205307
View attachment 205308

And here is more context from them. It is short and simple to understand:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/qtmbc4...246f80a7ceefcc/Chelsea_Rent_Boy_Briefing_.pdf

I have also pointed out that people close to me consider that term personally offensive and unwelcoming. Of course not everyone will agree, but over time culture shifts and most fans follow those norms, for example we condemn racist chanting. Some are clearly not there yet with what many consider to be homophobic chanting, but perhaps discussions like these can throw more light than heat on the issue.

So, there is the counter argument to your own personal understanding. As I said before, If you choose to stick to your guns and use the chant then so be it, but hopefully there is now more understanding of how some others may not like it.

There is very little context there. It does confirm what we already know. That in their view 'rent boy' is a "vile and disgraceful" slur, and using the word is an arrestable offence.

Why? Because "It originates from the 1960s, where the Earl’s Court area near Stamford Bridge, which was well-known for its gay scene and concentration of male sex workers. From the 1980’s onwards, its use at Chelsea matches became disappointingly commonplace....it was banned after "years of campaigning by Chelsea Pride and other LGBTQI+ groups"

So some people said they were offended so it was banned. I'd be interested to know how many.

Nowhere does it explain why, in the context of football rivalries, calling a set of opposition fans sex workers is so much wost than calling them thieves, bestiality-lovers or farmyard animals.

'Rent boy' has never been a catch-all slur for the entire gay community. It's a slang term for a type of sex worker.

 

[Nickydblade]

There is very little context there. It does confirm what we already know. That in their view 'rent boy' is a "vile and disgraceful" slur, and using the word is an arrestable offence.

Why? Because "It originates from the 1960s, where the Earl’s Court area near Stamford Bridge, which was well-known for its gay scene and concentration of male sex workers. From the 1980’s onwards, its use at Chelsea matches became disappointingly commonplace....it was banned after "years of campaigning by Chelsea Pride and other LGBTQI+ groups"

So some people said they were offended so it was banned. I'd be interested to know how many.

Nowhere does it explain why, in the context of football rivalries, calling a set of opposition fans sex workers is so much wost than calling them thieves, bestiality-lovers or farmyard animals.

Fair points. It is more of a summary of mainstream opinion.

If we go down that line then are you saying you have explored the etymology, statistical data and public opinion about other words or phrases before choosing whether or not to use them? I genuinely doubt you did this over a word you described as misogynistic and unacceptable earlier.

Saying that, yes, I agree that any word or phrase can be understood differently by different people. This is true of racial language as well, and there are those who would make a case that when they use those terms they ‘didn’t mean it’ in that way, and they may often be sincere.

For the third time… if you choose to use the phrase then so be it