Pretend we're rich. Would you risk -6 pts to buy a load of proven Prem quality players?

[Champagneblade]

Just annoying we’ve been so ill-prepared.

It’s not now unreasonable to assume that if they docked Forest 6 and docked Everton another 6, then they’d have little scope to appeal.

That would put Everton back onto 19 and Forest down to 18.

It would be a real boost for Luton.

It’s why it’s annoying we couldn’t hold two leads against Palace to at least take a point, put away at least one, if not both of the 1v1s against Wolves and have avoided the absolute clusterfuck that was Luton at home.

It’s not unreasonable to think we should have been 5 better off with just an ounce of professionalism and then we could really put the shits up the Scabs.

But that all comes back to simply not being good enough, doesn’t it? Players who are not good enough do the wrong things in key moments.

 

[shorehamview]

Man City levels of rich, with a strategy of buying, or at least trying to bu the best for the system, and letting the world’s best manager improve the majority of players under him, and if caught then threaten to tie the system up in years and years of counter litigation?

Or Chelsea’s model under Todd Boehly, spend vast amounts on multiple players for the same kind, with no coherent plan other than “fuck it, get it spent”, and ending up with eleventy midfielders all vying for two places in the team?

Newcastle are now owned by Sportswashing Investment Arm, yet they aren’t doing an Everton, they’re doing it in accordance with FFP, at least so far. Is that the way to proceed, slow progress with impatient fans demanding more money be spent?

If we had been taken over by a billionaire then sure, spend some money, but don’t go all out with no regard for the spending rules otherwise we end up the same as the slippery fuckers at Everton and Forest.

 

[Stegosaurus]

No, football is more than just premier league

Hi Stegosaurus here,

That's what life-long loser teams in League 1 and League 2 say,

"Ah, I'd rather be here at Vale Park in the rain eating a soggy, gristly meat pie that I paid 10 quid for and limp, uncooked chips watching Ryan Loft loft it 10 foot over the bar against Leyton Orient in front of 7,000 cold, miserable people than in the Premier League eating a warm, semi-nice pie and cooked chips whilst watching Rodri and Mo Salah in front of 30 thousand"

 

[mattbianco1]

At -10pts it seems very risky to break FFP. At -6pts it's less risky. If we could afford to "do a Forest" but be deducted 6 points in the process, would you?

Clearly it's better to cheat and take the points deduction.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Just annoying we’ve been so ill-prepared.

It’s not now unreasonable to assume that if they docked Forest 6 and docked Everton another 6, then they’d have little scope to appeal.

That would put Everton back onto 19 and Forest down to 18.

It would be a real boost for Luton.

It’s why it’s annoying we couldn’t hold two leads against Palace to at least take a point, put away at least one, if not both of the 1v1s against Wolves and have avoided the absolute clusterfuck that was Luton at home.

It’s not unreasonable to think we should have been 5 better off with just an ounce of professionalism and then we could really put the shits up the Scabs.

But that all comes back to simply not being good enough, doesn’t it? Players who are not good enough do the wrong things in key moments.

We got off on the wrong foot from day 1 Champs! inexperienced players just were not ready for prem football Allied to the injury situation .When reflecting on the season in May it will stand out( like it does now really) we were doomed .The Prince new it Hecki new it we as fans being realistic new it!.The
Only player with any real experience we signed was Tom Davies who was not fit and broke down very quickly Did Hecki have a game plan ! last season we rumbled along with no defined style of play 3 centr backs and that's it.
Maybe bringing in Wilder earlier ! we could have made a better fist of it?.
With the right surgery and some investment we can make a real push for promotion again .
We have won promotion plenty of times from this division usually finishing 2nd ( won it once 1952) it would be nice to win it as champions again.
Wilder has said hes not sentimental when reviewing his playing options ( maybe the sacking of Duffy previously and releasing Fleck recently show this ) no doubt decisions have to be made quickly and some shocks could be on the cards! Thats ok ! If we are stronger on the back of it.
.

 

[Blademan89]

Just annoying we’ve been so ill-prepared.

It’s not now unreasonable to assume that if they docked Forest 6 and docked Everton another 6, then they’d have little scope to appeal.

That would put Everton back onto 19 and Forest down to 18.

It would be a real boost for Luton.

It’s why it’s annoying we couldn’t hold two leads against Palace to at least take a point, put away at least one, if not both of the 1v1s against Wolves and have avoided the absolute clusterfuck that was Luton at home.

It’s not unreasonable to think we should have been 5 better off with just an ounce of professionalism and then we could really put the shits up the Scabs.

But that all comes back to simply not being good enough, doesn’t it? Players who are not good enough do the wrong things in key moments.

Not just those you mention. It's been said before but all you have to do is look at forest away, spurs away, villa away. We took 1 point out of those 3 games when we should have had 7 points and we did with the game going into 90+ mins on the clock. Then you add the points on what I've not mentioned and we are probably sitting 16th in a happier place awaiting Forest and Everton points to increase our chances further.

And that's why your statement is correct at the bottom, our players also seem to have a lack concentration or communication skills required.

We conceded the season before a ball was kicked and how the season has turned out (how poor it is at the bottom) it's so frustrating. If we rolled the dice and gambled we would have been better off, but hindsight eh.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Forest would be screwed if it was 10 points. 6 and it hangs in the balance.

I'm not sure they would be, they'll pull 6 points back on Luton before the end of the season.

 

[Tom Bott]

You’re talking like football owners inherit clubs by chance.

If you don’t have the means or the desire to subsidise a football club, the simple solution is not to own a football club.

So 'investment' has now become 'subsidise'.

Better.

 

[Snowflake]

Who’s on about defrauding the HMRC or the PL? or breaking countries laws? And where does the original point say anything goes in attempting to win?? It doesn’t say that at all…

It’s clear by the thread title “pretend we’re rich. Would you risk -6 pts to buy a load of proven prem quality players?’ It’s clear what is meant is buying players above our means and breaking the premier leagues Financial Fair Play, not defrauding HMRC or breaking countries laws.

Remember it’s “pretend we are rich”.. a hypothetical scenario where a rich billionaire buys us and buys us top premier league players so we can compete in the premier league, and in doing so we get docked 6 pts, yes just 6pts because of breaking the FFP rule.

I know it’s hypothetical and would never happen but there is actual Blades who wouldn’t be up for it? Wow

​

​

The point I was replying to was the one which said that there was nothing outlawed when going for a win.
i should have made that clearer, sorry.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Clearly no Blade is in it for the trophies, but I wouldn’t mind seeing us win one or more, if we had to slightly bend financial fair play rules to do so then it’s not like we’ve committed war crimes.

To win a trophy we'd need to absolutely annhilate the FFP rules though

 

[Silent Blade]

Forest would be screwed if it was 10 points. 6 and it hangs in the balance.

How much over the limit did Forest lose between 2020 and 2023 ? The points penalty can be as high as 12. Everton are in danger of administration and the points penalty will be 9 if it happens.

 

[Rodley]

So 'investment' has now become 'subsidise'.

Better.

Can you find me a club in the 92 which isn’t subsidised by their owner?

 

[tazzy]

The 4 points took off Everton yesterday will be added again for the second offence taking them back to 10 its a shit show the prem

 

[blade too long]

The 4 points took off Everton yesterday will be added again for the second offence taking them back to 10 its a shit show the prem

I think they will give forest and everton 6 point deductions next month as theyve set a precedent wendies ended up with 6 and evertons got down to the 6 eventually
it would really cloud their logic not giving 6 as the minimum now
and hopefully Chansiri will recieve another 6 pointer for his accounting gymnastics

 

[scouseblade]

Would I want us to deliberately cheat and break PSR to stay in the PL? Thats the conundrum. We are told in the Championship any club with ambition wants to be in PL. But clearly, we as a club (with exception of 19/20) arent particularly good at that step up. The PL is only becoming harder and harder as those established clubs bank the lolly and spend on better and better players and facilities. Would I risk my club going into administration? No I wouldnt. We are who we are and we unfortunately unless a country state comes along are going to stay that way

As for Everton and Forest. Well the debate will rage. The panel has now fully set a precedent. -6 points off for breaking PSR. Then surely, its -6 again for Forest and Everton potentially as a 2nd offence. Why should it only be -4? Whats the justification?

As for City, I have said this before. If a club becomes more powerful than the league it is representing, then sorry, the league is fucked. The PL are suppose to run the league, yes as a forum made up of 20 clubs but how can 1 powerful club essentially negate the rules because they can afford to pay some fancy dan lawyers enough wonga to tie the administrators up in knots?! The longer the City question goes on unanswered, the more fans will look at is as "big 6" club v "not big 6" club

 

[ton-up]

Stoke City level of investment ? though the word investment can often be confused with the word loss.

The Coates family has poured £338m into Stoke City since resuming ownership in 2006, football finance experts Swiss Ramble estimate.

How is Stoke Cities 'investment' paying off ?

Are their fans happy with this level of investment ?

You will need to ask the Stoke fans what they think?

As for Stoke City, Leicester City, Man City or any other club with City in the name, I don't really care TBH, in terms of their financial/league/success position.

My comments never mentioned a football club, just that people/company's that would like to get involved owning a FC, should not do so, if they can't afford it.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think they will give forest and everton 6 point deductions next month as theyve set a precedent wendies ended up with 6 and evertons got down to the 6 eventually
it would really cloud their logic not giving 6 as the minimum now
and hopefully Chansiri will recieve another 6 pointer for his accounting gymnastics

Would I want us to deliberately cheat and break PSR to stay in the PL? Thats the conundrum. We are told in the Championship any club with ambition wants to be in PL. But clearly, we as a club (with exception of 19/20) arent particularly good at that step up. The PL is only becoming harder and harder as those established clubs bank the lolly and spend on better and better players and facilities. Would I risk my club going into administration? No I wouldnt. We are who we are and we unfortunately unless a country state comes along are going to stay that way

As for Everton and Forest. Well the debate will rage. The panel has now fully set a precedent. -6 points off for breaking PSR. Then surely, its -6 again for Forest and Everton potentially as a 2nd offence. Why should it only be -4? Whats the justification?

As for City, I have said this before. If a club becomes more powerful than the league it is representing, then sorry, the league is fucked. The PL are suppose to run the league, yes as a forum made up of 20 clubs but how can 1 powerful club essentially negate the rules because they can afford to pay some fancy dan lawyers enough wonga to tie the administrators up in knots?! The longer the City question goes on unanswered, the more fans will look at is as "big 6" club v "not big 6" club

This is the last chance to get a grip of the cheats and they are cheats knowing full well they are breaking the rules.Money rules and has always done in football just the chances of smaller clubs being successful has receded with the vast amounts of money in the premier .
City have to pay the price of what they have done if proven guilty.
6 points has to be the start and no limit to what punishment is available culminating in relegation if over spending or rule breaking is just ignored.
It's the only way to put a stop to it.
Would the commission 's be brave enough to do that be it City , Chelsea or any rich club. The Dury is out ! We shall see.

 

[ton-up]

It's not an investment. The expectation from some fans, is that somebody will spend loads of money as a hobby, happy for it being down the drain.

There are many creditable owners that spend/have spent money whilst in the process of purchasing/owning a FC (that have the financial means to do so). I am sure that these people/company's were aware of just what they were getting into.

 

[Tom Bott]

people/company's that would like to get involved owning a FC, should not do so, if they can't afford it.

Can't afford what though ?
Top 6 in the PL.
Permanent position in the PL.
Top 6 in Championship.

There is only room in the top 6 of the PL for six clubs, yet there are 92 league clubs.
Fans of all these clubs would all love to be top 6 in the PL.

How many fans describe their owners as not investing, (subsidising) their clubs sufficiently.

There is a big difference between expectation and reality, ask any Wendy fan or Stoke City fan, to name but two.

What is the reward for these owners to subsidise clubs to the tune of hundreds of millions ?
Well look at the abuse Chansiri is getting with fans trying to force him out in the hope of better.
Look at the abuse McCabe and HRH get for not 'subsidising' 'our' club sufficiently.

 

[Selly]

At 10 points it’s not risky. It’s 3 wins and a draw which if you spend the money these lot have it’s easy to claw back.

The last two seasons Everton have survived by 2 and 4 points respectively.

They might be a lot better (so far) this year*, and therefore 10 points isn't as risky, but if you apply the punishment to the years in which they benefitted, they should have been relegated. Leeds and Leicester** have an arguable case for compensation IMO.

* partly of course because they are building on a foundation that they wouldn`t have if they had complied with FFP

**No I don`t have a huge amount of sympathy for Leicester given what they did in 2003, nor Leeds, because its Leeds - but I can`t pick and choose who to argue should get compo in my thinking here

 

[Rodley]

It's not an investment. The expectation from some fans, is that somebody will spend loads of money as a hobby, happy for it being down the drain.

But surely anyone buying a club knows it will cost them a shitload of cash to run? This isn’t a new development - it’s been the case for decades. There is no return, there never had been.

 

[Selly]

But surely anyone buying a club knows it will cost them a shitload of cash to run? This isn’t a new development - it’s been the case for decades. There is no return, there never had been.

The problem is that 30 years ago you could be a Jack Walker and spend that shitload of cash and buy your way to a title.

Now a Jack Walker probably could help get a club to the PL (although it would be tough coming up against Parachute payment teams) - probably couldn`t keep them there.

 

[Rodley]

What is the reward for these owners to subsidise clubs to the tune of hundreds of millions ?

You can’t own a club without subsidising it for millions.

If your current owner can’t or won’t provide the cash, you all need to move onto the next sucker (sorry, rich benevolent individual) pronto.

 

[Bladesman]

At what point do you just join in this game of financial bullshit?

Same with falling down like a bag of shit to win a foul.

 

[Rodley]

The problem is that 30 years ago you could be a Jack Walker and spend that shitload of cash and buy your way to a title.

Now a Jack Walker probably could help get a club to the PL (although it would be tough coming up against Parachute payment teams) - probably couldn`t keep them there.

Yep that is modern football. All clubs outside of the top 4/5 grapple with that problem. But such is life, until there is a revolution then you run with the wolves.

 

[ton-up]

Can't afford what though ?
Top 6 in the PL.
Permanent position in the PL.
Top 6 in Championship.

There is only room in the top 6 of the PL for six clubs, yet there are 92 league clubs.
Fans of all these clubs would all love to be top 6 in the PL.

How many fans describe their owners as not investing, (subsidising) their clubs sufficiently.

There is a big difference between expectation and reality, ask any Wendy fan or Stoke City fan, to name but two.

What is the reward for these owners to subsidise clubs to the tune of hundreds of millions ?
Well look at the abuse Chansiri is getting with fans trying to force him out in the hope of better.
Look at the abuse McCabe and HRH get for not 'subsidising' 'our' club sufficiently.

Let's look back at your comments of "Would you sell your house and 'invest' it in a football club? Fans expect owners to do such though."

I stated that I don't think that fans expect an owner or potential owner of a FC to have to sell their house to continue subsidising or obtain funds to run/purchase a FC. My point was that if is to be the case, then they likely shouldn't be involved owning a FC, knowing (if not, they must be thick or badly advised) of the costs involved.

 

[Tom Bott]

https://theathletic.com/4686896/2023/07/12/football-financial-sustainability-premier-league/

Precarious financial position, or as some like to call it 'investment'.

 

[ton-up]

https://theathletic.com/4686896/2023/07/12/football-financial-sustainability-premier-league/

Precarious financial position, or as some like to call it 'investment'.

I can't be arsed to read it TBH, but just looked at the headlines of "heavily reliant on owners’ funding". Isn't that what this thread is about? If we hypothetically had rich owners that could afford to "heavily fund" us to establish the club within the EPL and risk a points deduction during the process?

 

[Harry's Game]

The rules are changing in August anyway, if I understand them correctly both Everton and Forest would have been inside the new rule limits.

 

[JustLookin]

No. That would include cheating and illegalities which would finish any club off.

*should