Phippsy speaks

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It's all very well and good sacking the man, but i don't hear too many names being branded around to replace him....
 



Dkc said:
Sometimes I wonder if Blades fans are more critical than others. Our expectations are certainly a lot higher.

Out of a league of 23 teams we're 5th - there are only four teams above us and 18 who have a poorer record than we do. Should the 18 below us all sack their manager too? You could say that we are a special case as we have a big stadium, big crowds and a high wage bill. But such factors have never guaranteed promotion. Every year some big clubs remain in mid table while some smaller oines challenge for promotion.

Look at the Championship, with Brentford and Bournemouth up there, and plenty of far bigger clubs not challenging. It's normal in football. In league 2 Portsmouth are mid table while Burton are top.

There's no guarantee that sacking a manager - be it Warnock, Wilson, Blackwell or Clough - will improve our fortunes. If you look at our recent history, sacking a manager tends to make things worse
Click to expand...

Having read a few of your comments Dkc, I think your approach to the issues that surround United have a ring of correctness about them.

We have the appearance of a big club, at times we've had gates the right side of 25K, and every so often we've been willing to spend a figure well in excess of seven figures, but that's been the exception and not the rule. I use these as examples of what contributes to the mindset that some fans consider makes us a far bigger proposition than we are in reality.

It's clear to me that to move a club forward that those who control the purse-strings are going to lose money until this club can find itself in the Premiership. There's just no way that at this level, as well as the Championship, that an ambitious club can't fail to lose money in their quest for promotion. Fees and wages will determine the extent of our ambition, so whether the above realities are part of this club's game-plan will be revealed over the next season or two. There's a lot of nonsense spoken in defense of criticisms that are easily dismissed. Seems we're a team of midgets in midfield, therefore someone ought to tell Mourinho that in Fabregas, Hazard, and Oscar he has a midfield who can easily slide under a limbo stick.

Of course we're short of a decent central defender, but as for the other mantras that are regularly trotted out, I notice that no solutions are offered, just whinging and a stream of hostile insults are the constants offered by the wrist slashing tendency.

Good posts Dkc, a level of objective commentary that is becoming increasingly rare amongst the views of those who only focus on what's going wrong, but never able to offer a solution that might be worth considering.
 
bartman said:
Can't agree mate. If we don't make the play offs, and bearing in mind the backing he has had, he should be sacked and I expect the Board will do so.
Click to expand...
...and burden ourselves with another compensation fee and another season of squad reassembling. Everybody knows that, right?
 
Junior Soduko said:
It's all very well and good sacking the man, but i don't hear too many names being branded around to replace him....
Click to expand...

As I posted on another thread yesterday:

So here goes - blokes who are doing it on a regular basis and who - I reckon - would crawl over hot coals to get the United job.

Mark Cooper (Swindon), Karl Robinson (MKD), and maybe cheeky bids for Steve Cotterill (Bristol C.), Paul Cook (Chesterfield) and...Simon Grayson (Preston). Even more 'left field', Steve Evans (Rotherham). I've discounted Dean Saunders who, though he's doing a good job at Crawley, would be another 'work in progress' and we cannot afford another of those.

Expecting the usual 'why would he come?', 'we'd never get him', 'you must be fucking joking' etc. I'm off. :D
 
Dkc said:
Sometimes I wonder if Blades fans are more critical than others. Our expectations are certainly a lot higher.

Out of a league of 23 teams we're 5th - there are only four teams above us and 18 who have a poorer record than we do. Should the 18 below us all sack their manager too? You could say that we are a special case as we have a big stadium, big crowds and a high wage bill. But such factors have never guaranteed promotion. Every year some big clubs remain in mid table while some smaller oines challenge for promotion.

Look at the Championship, with Brentford and Bournemouth up there, and plenty of far bigger clubs not challenging. It's normal in football. In league 2 Portsmouth are mid table while Burton are top.

There's no guarantee that sacking a manager - be it Warnock, Wilson, Blackwell or Clough - will improve our fortunes. If you look at our recent history, sacking a manager tends to make things worse
Click to expand...
The championship is not a very good comparison both Bournemouth and Brentford have been throwing a lot of money at it to get where they are, as for league two Portsmouth they haven't got two pennies to scratch their arses with.
 
grafikhaus said:
As I posted on another thread yesterday:

So here goes - blokes who are doing it on a regular basis and who - I reckon - would crawl over hot coals to get the United job.

Mark Cooper (Swindon), Karl Robinson (MKD), and maybe cheeky bids for Steve Cotterill (Bristol C.), Paul Cook (Chesterfield) and...Simon Grayson (Preston). Even more 'left field', Steve Evans (Rotherham). I've discounted Dean Saunders who, though he's doing a good job at Crawley, would be another 'work in progress' and we cannot afford another of those.

Expecting the usual 'why would he come?', 'we'd never get him', 'you must be fucking joking' etc. I'm off. :D
Click to expand...


Cooper and Karl would be good. Steve Evans would get us up first time of asking. :)
 
We nned a
WalthamstowBlade said:
Peter Taylor, Craig Levein, Russell Latapy, JFH...

There are managers out there.
Click to expand...

We need a proven manager. Nigel got Southampton up and got them up straight from the championship. Maybe, Warbuton would be a possibility? I think with the new pitch, Jim and Prince want us to play football not smash and grab every game. We go to draw with Clough evidence that Nigel after Walsall scored the other night brought Matt Done off for Flynn. Adkins would go for the win from the off.

With what I've heard, the time is up if a loss happens Saturday.
 
grafikhaus said:
As I posted on another thread yesterday:

So here goes - blokes who are doing it on a regular basis and who - I reckon - would crawl over hot coals to get the United job.

Mark Cooper (Swindon), Karl Robinson (MKD), and maybe cheeky bids for Steve Cotterill (Bristol C.), Paul Cook (Chesterfield) and...Simon Grayson (Preston). Even more 'left field', Steve Evans (Rotherham). I've discounted Dean Saunders who, though he's doing a good job at Crawley, would be another 'work in progress' and we cannot afford another of those.

Expecting the usual 'why would he come?', 'we'd never get him', 'you must be fucking joking' etc. I'm off. :D
Click to expand...

Mark Cooper who, after managing Tamworth and Kettering, was sacked after 13 games at Peterborough (1 win, sound familiar ?) He then went to Darlo and took them from a perilous position to mid table but then struggled the season after and was sacked (sounds familiar again). He then left Kettering after 1 game, went to Telford for just 5 games before running off to Swindon.

Karl Robinson, now in his 5th season at MK and, if all goes well, this looks like the 1st time he's improved on the previous season's position.
 
Jim Chimmerney said:
Mark Cooper who, after managing Tamworth and Kettering, was sacked after 13 games at Peterborough (1 win, sound familiar ?) He then went to Darlo and took them from a perilous position to mid table but then struggled the season after and was sacked (sounds familiar again). He then left Kettering after 1 game, went to Telford for just 5 games before running off to Swindon.

Karl Robinson, now in his 5th season at MK and, if all goes well, this looks like the 1st time he's improved on the previous season's position.
Click to expand...

So that just proves that the average manager is - fucking average. Sorry. Somebody asked for suggestions. Anybody at our level will have more misses than hits, but until Mourinho comes available, that's what we're left with.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Having read a few of your comments Dkc, I think your approach to the issues that surround United have a ring of correctness about them.

We have the appearance of a big club, at times we've had gates the right side of 25K, and every so often we've been willing to spend a figure well in excess of seven figures, but that's been the exception and not the rule. I use these as examples of what contributes to the mindset that some fans consider makes us a far bigger proposition than we are in reality.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't want to get in the whole debate of what constitutes a big club, but I get a sense that some fans are almost starting to accept that if we are challenging for the play offs (i.e. we are in the top 6 of 24 teams) then that actually means we are doing pretty well. From my perspective, in League 1 we are a massive club, and it is an absolute disgrace that we will be facing another season in this shite league. The reality is that our average home attendance is 47% bigger than that of the next highest in the league (Bradford City) and our average attendance is at least double that of all bar three other teams in this league. Therefore, United have a massive advantage financially over every other club in this league, and as such we should be challenging for automatic promotion as a minimum, and it is right that this is the expectation of the fans. The fact that the club has not used this huge financial advantage to assemble a squad which can easily beat the likes of Crawley, Fleetwood, Scunthorpe, etc.is an absolute disgrace.
 



grafikhaus said:
So that just proves that the average manager is - fucking average. Sorry. Somebody asked for suggestions. Anybody at our level will have more misses than hits, but until Mourinho comes available, that's what we're left with.
Click to expand...

It does ask the question though, are any of these as good as or better than Nigel Clough?
 
AlBlade said:
To be fair, I don't want to get in the whole debate of what constitutes a big club, but I get a sense that some fans are almost starting to accept that if we are challenging for the play offs (i.e. we are in the top 6 of 24 teams) then that actually means we are doing pretty well. From my perspective, in League 1 we are a massive club, and it is an absolute disgrace that we will be facing another season in this shite league. The reality is that our average home attendance is 47% bigger than that of the next highest in the league (Bradford City) and our average attendance is at least double that of all bar three other teams in this league. Therefore, United have a massive advantage financially over every other club in this league, and as such we should be challenging for automatic promotion as a minimum, and it is right that this is the expectation of the fans. The fact that the club has not used this huge financial advantage to assemble a squad which can easily beat the likes of Crawley, Fleetwood, Scunthorpe, etc.is an absolute disgrace.
Click to expand...

In principle I agree mate, but as with many things, if only it were that simple? What I said and I'm happy to repeat is that with the trappings of a 'big' club it's easy to assume a position whereby we'll walk this division. Like I said, if only.....time will tell and then, well, who knows?
 
grafikhaus said:
So that just proves that the average manager is - fucking average. Sorry. Somebody asked for suggestions. Anybody at our level will have more misses than hits, but until Mourinho comes available, that's what we're left with.
Click to expand...

It's one of the weirdest professions in the world, there's a managerial roundabout with the same old faces on it and no matter how badly you do, there's always someone willing to give you a job. Most managers have had a purple patch at some point and more often or not, have more failures than successes as time goes on. Look at Holloway, journeyman manager who hadn't achieved much, right place right time with Blackpool but unlikely to get another big job now after a couple of failures.

Sometimes, it's better the devil you know, 10 years ago Warnock was lucky to stay with us (he wouldn't have done today) yet McCabe stuck with him and it paid off the season after. Difficult decision unless something is 100% wrong, which it isn't with Clough.
 
AlBlade said:
To be fair, I don't want to get in the whole debate of what constitutes a big club, but I get a sense that some fans are almost starting to accept that if we are challenging for the play offs (i.e. we are in the top 6 of 24 teams) then that actually means we are doing pretty well. From my perspective, in League 1 we are a massive club, and it is an absolute disgrace that we will be facing another season in this shite league. The reality is that our average home attendance is 47% bigger than that of the next highest in the league (Bradford City) and our average attendance is at least double that of all bar three other teams in this league. Therefore, United have a massive advantage financially over every other club in this league, and as such we should be challenging for automatic promotion as a minimum, and it is right that this is the expectation of the fans. The fact that the club has not used this huge financial advantage to assemble a squad which can easily beat the likes of Crawley, Fleetwood, Scunthorpe, etc.is an absolute disgrace.
Click to expand...

We HAVE to get out of this league and that's where the frustration and eventually impatience comes from given the resources. Makes it worse when you see Bournemouth riding high in the Chumpionship with 7/8 of the same team who took them up, banging in 4/5 goals every game. They had a cash injection last season, similarly Brizzle did last Summer yet we can't seem to make our resources count.

Not the right kind of players, right manager, right tactics, probably a bit of all three but something needs to change.
 
bartman said:
Can't agree mate. If we don't make the play offs, and bearing in mind the backing he has had, he should be sacked and I expect the Board will do so.
Click to expand...

I know - it's a very odd situation and there'll be some hard words if he doesn't turn things round. Jim Philips is, I believe, an iron fist in a velvet glove.

At least if they do get rid then this time they'll make an appointment with knowledge gained of English football that they didn't have before.

I suppose, like most people, I want NC to suddenly get it right.
 
Dkc said:
Sometimes I wonder if Blades fans are more critical than others. Our expectations are certainly a lot higher.

Out of a league of 23 teams we're 5th - there are only four teams above us and 18 who have a poorer record than we do. Should the 18 below us all sack their manager too? You could say that we are a special case as we have a big stadium, big crowds and a high wage bill. But such factors have never guaranteed promotion. Every year some big clubs remain in mid table while some smaller oines challenge for promotion.

Look at the Championship, with Brentford and Bournemouth up there, and plenty of far bigger clubs not challenging. It's normal in football. In league 2 Portsmouth are mid table while Burton are top.

There's no guarantee that sacking a manager - be it Warnock, Wilson, Blackwell or Clough - will improve our fortunes. If you look at our recent history, sacking a manager tends to make things worse
Click to expand...

Dkc , totally agree with you , but the thing is , and you look at where Bournemouth and Brenford are , shows clearly , if we could get out of this damned league , with the players we have got , and a few additions , we could be there challenging too.

Still think this side would be more suited to the championship than league 1 , but we just make hard work of trying to get out of it.

UTB
 
Jim Chimmerney said:
Makes it worse when you see Bournemouth riding high in the Chumpionship with 7/8 of the same team who took them up, banging in 4/5 goals every game.
Click to expand...

Incredibly, less than a year ago, we were reportedly 'in the frame' for Callum Wilson. As ever, and after the usual excuses, we decided to spunk the money on half a dozen average players instead. The rest, as is normal for United, is history.
 
It's only in recent years that managers have regularly been sacked if things go wrong. Before the 1970's it was the players that took more of the blame. Managers used to remain in charge for decades.

It's the players that go out on the pitch, and it's the players that lose games. However, it's a lot easier to change the manager than to change half the first team, so these days clubs prefer to sack the man in charge of tactics than those charged with carrying them out.
 
metalblade said:
The championship is not a very good comparison both Bournemouth and Brentford have been throwing a lot of money at it to get where they are, as for league two Portsmouth they haven't got two pennies to scratch their arses with.
Click to expand...
Bournemouth's and Brentford's fat bubble will burst in the next few years if not next season
 
TonyAgana said:
...and burden ourselves with another compensation fee and another season of squad reassembling. Everybody knows that, right?
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying but it is about the agreed targets that the Board set. 20 players(ish) in and transfer fees paid will mean all the Maguire transfer funds have now gone. In this division, a play off place should be a bare minimum for us based on that kind of investment. The fact is out of those signings he has failed to resolve our issues at centre half which is astounding and also failed to spot that we have lacked a physical presence in midfield (unless Basham plays there) and up front for most of the season
Why should the Board back him further if he fails to get us in the top 6 this season ? They might as well give the money to someone else who will maybe spend the money more wisely.

If we make the play offs and don't go up I think he will get another chance to get things right but I think patience will be very thin at all levels of the club
 
grafikhaus said:
Incredibly, less than a year ago, we were reportedly 'in the frame' for Callum Wilson. As ever, and after the usual excuses, we decided to spunk the money on half a dozen average players instead. The rest, as is normal for United, is history.
Click to expand...

Do you really think we had a chance of signing Callum Wilson
Now lets see a foward thinking club that pays well in the Championship or another season in L1
Do you really think he would have given us a thought
 



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