Phippsy speaks

[TonyAgana]

Well, you allude that those who say 'get you hands in your pockets' are 'idiots'. As I am one of those outspoken advocates, I assume you mean 'me'?

Why would you have to assume anything? I explicitly stated who I thought were idiots. Clough has clearly been backed. The fact that he hasn't spent wisely doesn't mean that he hasn't had money to spend.

Gambles - forced by what, exactly? Would you say that Done and Brayford was a 'gamble'? We kind of know how much was spent on them. But the rest ... the 'undiscloseds', I assume are the 'gambles' you speak of? So, assuming for one dark minute that they are 'undisclosed' because they were someone else's team's unwanteds (as seems to be the case) or non-league hopefuls (as seems to be the case) one might assume that not a lot of moolah was spent on these 'gambles' at all. In fact, they are far from 'gambles', because perhaps te only gamble we face is paying their wages.

I'm being facetious because my case doesn't need any help - that paragraph ^ ^ ^ isn't my case, it's something you've made up so you can argue your's.

 

[pommpey]

What he said ...

You claim Clough has been backed by the board, and anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. The evidence suggests otherwise, on both counts.

pommpey

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Be nice to see Jp and Sal at the Lane this weekend.

Quite what they have to offer a team clearly down on morale and struggling to maintain even their current playoff status in a league of leeser-invested teams is beyond me. It's almost as if they've texted each other with a "MATCH THIS WKND?" "YEH" conversation.

Face it. Cluff has bought ... or has been placed in a position where he has had to buy ... pretty uninspiring squad players. Aside from Murphy, Brayford and Done, who would you keep if you were to have a clear-out? And the latest, Davies, seems like much of the same with even Blackpool fans, facing the U Bend of Championship life after being up with the great and the good recently, saying 'ta-ra'.

I am mindful of what people say about 'negative Nigel' and him having no plan-B. But if we are to look anything like a Championship side we need to be playing like a Championship club with players who look like Championship players. Murphy ... definitely, Done, yeah and possibly Brayford on a good day. What about the rest? We have not really had a consistent, reliable central defender since Maguire and before that Morgs and Jags occupied the shirts. Brayford may be a class above whatever else we have and Bob sometimes looks the part, but 'Championship'?

I know we have signed a busload of players and I know I keep banging on about it, but we are still a very long way from the sacred Game Changing Investment I imagined we'd be at, post Saudi arrival. And our current form is the material proof of that.

pommpey

Howard
Brayford
Harris
Flynn
JCR
Murphy
Done

All these lads are good enough to be in an attacking top 2 League One side, because Pommpey we are a League One club not a Championship club and should concentrate on that first and foremost.

The problem is, Howard apart, they are players that all ply their trade at the edge of the pitch. The glaringly obvious need in our side is a strong, physical, fit, spine consisting of 2x Centre Backs, 2x Centre Mids and 1x Striker. Should he bring in Collins? Probably, Should we give Davies more time on the pitch? Most likely, do we need a real scouting system instead of Clough's brother and the Derby County website? Definitely.

Also the club has spent upwards of 4 million in 12 months on the squad including 1.7m on a right back, any other club would have won the league at a cantor with that sort of budget and that sort of investment.

 

[Darren]

You claim Clough has been backed by the board, and anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. The evidence suggests otherwise, on both counts.

pommpey

He's brought in 20 players in the last year or so. Maguire apart, we have not let anyone go who wasn't dross. We may not know the fees for those 20 players, but they will all, I suggest, be getting wages that are top notch for the third division and there will also be signing on fees etc. And then there is Brayford. Apparently the fee for him was a million plus and I think it quite likely he is the best paid player in the third division (why ever else would he leave a just relegated from the PL team otherwise?)

By all means criticise Clough for the players he has signed, but there can be no serious argument that he has received significant financial backing from the Board.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Been saying for donkeys and am still waiting for us to bring in a better Collins and a better Doyle.

 

[TonyAgana]

You claim Clough has been backed by the board, and anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. The evidence suggests otherwise, on both counts.

pommpey

Finally, you've actually addressed my point.

Darren has spelled it out quite well but seeing as though you're the one arguing in the face of the line that the club has put out regarding our spend, why don't you have a stab at what you think those 20 players will cost us over the course of this season?

 

[pommpey]

He's brought in 20 players in the last year or so. Maguire apart, we have not let anyone go who wasn't dross. We may not know the fees for those 20 players, but they will all, I suggest, be getting wages that are top notch for the third division and there will also be signing on fees etc. And then there is Brayford. Apparently the fee for him was a million plus and I think it quite likely he is the best paid player in the third division (why ever else would he leave a just relegated from the PL team otherwise?)

By all means criticise Clough for the players he has signed, but there can be no serious argument that he has received significant financial backing from the Board.

So you're saying he hasn't received backing? Or he has?

I'd say Clough is knowledgable and canny enough to have knocked on McCabe's door a few times with a post-it or two with target players on it, some of whom are between the £750k-£1.25m bracket, previous PL/high CL experience and in key areas of weakness.

The answer possibly, 'no, Nige. Shop around.'

pommpey

 

[Highbury_Blade]

The only bit of sympathy I have for Clough is that he had to endure the evans fiasco which may have tied his hands in the striker market until January.

But that's it.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Do you think the (supposed) investment released by the board into the hands of Clough has been wisely spent?

Aside from what we know, Brayford, Done as standout 'bought' players who have capability and the ability to augment what was a basically understrength squad compared with last season, what other squad additions can you name who have made any sort of difference? How much did they cost?

pommpey

Time will tell, I think our problem is we have invested in players for the future.
I'm sure next season will be better either as strong favourites for promotion of with a squad that can hold onto Championship status.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Time will tell, I think our problem is we have invested in players for the future.
I'm sure next season will be better either as strong favourites for promotion of with a squad that can hold onto Championship status.

We were strong favourites for promotion this season weren't we?

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing

 

[Darren]

So you're saying he hasn't received backing? Or he has?

I'd say Clough is knowledgable and canny enough to have knocked on McCabe's door a few times with a post-it or two with target players on it, some of whom are between the £750k-£1.25m bracket, previous PL/high CL experience and in key areas of weakness.

The answer possibly, 'no, Nige. Shop around.'

pommpey

I'm saying he quite obviously has received backing. We can speculate, of course, without evidence, that he may have been knocked back on particular players, but what is clear is that signing 20 players in a year, including Brayford, would not have come cheap. I don't think McCabe would have given a rat's arse if he had spen the same money on 10 (better_ players rather than 20 players.

 

[TonyAgana]

And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing

ARE YOU CALLING ME AN IDIOT?

 

[pommpey]

Finally, you've actually addressed my point.

Darren has spelled it out quite well but seeing as though you're the one arguing in the face of the line that the club has put out regarding our spend, why don't you have a stab at what you think those 20 players will cost us over the course of this season?

No. I am saying they haven't put out. I am saying that the smoke and mirrors surrounding what has and hasn't been spent masks the component of investment in areas where we truly need it. IE we have had bugger all spent but undiscloseds in those areas.

pommpey

 

[TonyAgana]

we have had bugger all spent but undiscloseds in those areas.

It sounds like you are assuming that "undisclosed" means "0".

 

[Barney Rubble]

Been saying for donkeys and am still waiting for us to bring in a better Collins and a better Doyle.

But isn't one of the reasons we've done so badly this season is that's what he's tried to do?

He should have just focussed last Summer on trying to fill the gaps left by Brayford, Harry and Coady along with signing the two strikers we'd been crying out for since the judge sent Ched down. Although he has been well backed by the board he's ended up both spreading his money around too thinly and also squandering a load of the money on Brayford.

It seems to me that Clough has been too ambitious - replacing the journeymen squad members with better quality and trying to pension off Doyle and Collins.Consequently, we began the season without either of them in the team but brought them both back when we got off to such a bad start.
Collins was then banished for good after the Swindon defeat but Doyle has kept his place largely because of the injury to Walllace and his replacement ending up being the replacement at Centre Half.

 

[Darren]

No. I am saying they haven't put out. I am saying that the smoke and mirrors surrounding what has and hasn't been spent masks the component of investment in areas where we truly need it. IE we have had bugger all spent but undiscloseds in those areas.

pommpey

I am struglling with this. Within a particular budget, the manager decides which players to sign, not the Board. Clough has signed 20 players. There is a strong argument a lot of those are rather mediocre and that we don't need a first team squad of 35 (or whatever it is). If Clough had spent the same money on better players, but half the number, are you saying the Board would not have permitted this?

 

[AlBlade]

He's brought in 20 players in the last year or so. Maguire apart, we have not let anyone go who wasn't dross. We may not know the fees for those 20 players, but they will all, I suggest, be getting wages that are top notch for the third division and there will also be signing on fees etc. And then there is Brayford. Apparently the fee for him was a million plus and I think it quite likely he is the best paid player in the third division (why ever else would he leave a just relegated from the PL team otherwise?)

By all means criticise Clough for the players he has signed, but there can be no serious argument that he has received significant financial backing from the Board.

Completely agree that the Board have given the Clough financial backing, and whilst this may not necessarily have been for transfer fees (until Brayford and Done), I will bet that our wage bill has increased massively this season. Clough has built a squad of 41 professional players at the Lane, which is a huge squad by Premiership standards, let alone League 1. I think it is Clough's inability to structure a decent starting 11 out of 41 players is the main source of my frustration with him. Out of a squad of 41 we start with central midfielder and a left back both playing at centre half; we have started with Coutts playing in the right because we have no cover for Flynn (yet we have loaned out JCR); we spent over a million on a right back despite this being some way down the list of positions that needed addressing; we haven't had any major injury problems and those injuries we have had were players Clough bought with a previous track record of missing games through injury (e.g.. Wallace); I could go on and on (and I usually do) but I won't.

To be fair to Clough, he has never complained that he hasn't had the financial backing from the Board. However, he has amassed a huge squad of players, and yet players are consistently having to play out of their natural position, and with the exception of Done and Murphy, those that are picked to play look average at best. I think that Clough's heroics last season have earned him the right to have a full season this term, but I am less convinced about retaining his services for next season if we don't get promoted this season.

 

[Blade56]

Taxiiii

View attachment 11006

Don't want to see a change of manager again so soon but this could be true if the 3 home games this coming week don't bring about the desired results.

I knew he had a second job!

 

[Bladebri]

Churchill said
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."


So we continue no matter what.
UTB

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

Way way too many draws...

5 loses in 22 games

6 wins in 22 games

 

[Worksop II]

Coutts may well turn out to be a decent signing given an injury free summer

James Wallace could manage an injury free summer .....................

 

[WhiteHawk]

If we don't win on Saturday, I dread to think what the crowd reaction will be at full time.

 

[cooperblade]

If we don't win on Saturday, I dread to think what the crowd reaction will be at full time.

We've always reacted well to home failures v Port Vale in the past.

 

[sheffielder]

I wouldn't call you an idiot for saying that we needed to replace Coady and Maguire. I reserve that insult for those who claim the board haven't backed Clough. And those who deliberately misread posts to support their agenda.

You have a valid point. If that money spent on all those players were instead spent on a bit of quality for say 5 players, we would be a better team. It was only Nige himself who said last season he preferred a squad of 18/19 with youngsters. He's got an NFL roster with a lack of Nose Tackles in it.

 

[Jonboy60]

I've said elsewhere that I have a certain amount of sympathy on the transfer / injury front. He lost Maguire which, let's face it, was always going to happen and Butler and Collins haven't worked for whatever reason. Having said that, he's had plenty of time to address that, McCarthy aside which was a disaster.

He clearly wanted Brayford and O'Grady in the Summer and who knows, if they had come in then, and Wallace had paid off he might have had the squad he wanted and we could have seen a different picture. What hasn't worked is his plan B, if ever there was one, once these three key players weren't available.

We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes re Brayford etc, maybe he was given false hope early doors and ended up waiting too long but the fact is, we've had an ever-changing team / squad which has ended up helping no-one.

He might have got the squad he wanted in the summer JC, but his tactics and strange decisions would still be used, whoever he'd got.

 

[metalblade]

We can certainly say Clough has had money to spend what puzzles me is why in the summer did we lose out on Freeman, Coady or even O'Grady for that matter why were all the players we did sign free transfers, crocks hoping to return from long term injuries or young players for the future ? maybe it was because they were cheap it is after all the Blades way, we had this in the Premiership buying players for the future like Shelton and Fahti and it did us no good at all when we needed known quality back then as we did in the summer. We can speculate forever but will never really know if McCabe wouldn't loosen the purse strings or whether it was Clough who liked to go to the bank every few days to count his transfer fund. One thing stands out a mile in the summer we were shopping at poundland yet in the January transfer window we were suddenly shopping in M&S. It all suggests to me that not a great deal of cash was available in the summer yet money has been thrown at it in January, then we can always factor in the Ched farce nobody can tell me McCabe didn't make a promise to Ched, we expected a top striker for nothing in October and that is the reason that position was not a top priority earlier. Maybe Clough's hands were tied early in the season maybe not we will never know for sure, what we do know is this season is turning out to be a complete fuck up.

 

[BushBlade]

We can certainly say Clough has had money to spend what puzzles me is why in the summer did we lose out on Freeman, Coady or even O'Grady for that matter why were all the players we did sign free transfers, crocks hoping to return from long term injuries or young players for the future ? maybe it was because they were cheap it is after all the Blades way, we had this in the Premiership buying players for the future like Shelton and Fahti and it did us no good at all when we needed known quality back then as we did in the summer. We can speculate forever but will never really know if McCabe wouldn't loosen the purse strings or whether it was Clough who liked to go to the bank every few days to count his transfer fund. One thing stands out a mile in the summer we were shopping at poundland yet in the January transfer window we were suddenly shopping in M&S. It all suggests to me that not a great deal of cash was available in the summer yet money has been thrown at it in January, then we can always factor in the Ched farce nobody can tell me McCabe didn't make a promise to Ched, we expected a top striker for nothing in October and that is the reason that position was not a top priority earlier. Maybe Clough's hands were tied early in the season maybe not we will never know for sure, what we do know is this season is turning out to be a complete fuck up.

I've thought about this too and I think it's either we genuinely thought Harry was staying and spent accordingly. Then when we got an unexpected pot of money decided to wait until the JTW and use it for strengthening.
Or, there has been a power shift. KM convinced the Prince that you can get out of this division cheaply and Clough's budget was set accordingly. The Prince's lot have since decided that KM was wrong and allowed Clough to bring in the quality of players he wanted to sign in August.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

KM convinced the Prince that you can get out of this division cheaply and Clough's budget was set accordingly. The Prince's lot have since decided that KM was wrong and allowed Clough to bring in the quality of players he wanted to sign in August.

Why would anyone listen to McCabe on footballing matters? His track record has been atrocious at best. The whole point of him getting another investor was to put money into the first team.

 

[Harry's Game]

I've thought about this too and I think it's either we genuinely thought Harry was staying and spent accordingly. Then when we got an unexpected pot of money decided to wait until the JTW and use it for strengthening.
Or, there has been a power shift. KM convinced the Prince that you can get out of this division cheaply and Clough's budget was set accordingly. The Prince's lot have since decided that KM was wrong and allowed Clough to bring in the quality of players he wanted to sign in August.

I'm convinced they thought Maguire was staying and that they were equally convinced that come Mid November Ched Evans would be scoring the goals to take us up, basically the tried to do it on the cheap in summer, ended up with egg on their face, then threw money at it in a panic in January, they especially hoped the signing of Brayford would keep the natives form getting restless... It's done nothing of the sort.

 

[zablade]

I'm convinced they thought Maguire was staying and that they were equally convinced that come Mid November Ched Evans would be scoring the goals to take us up, basically the tried to do it on the cheap in summer, ended up with egg on their face, then threw money at it in a panic in January, they especially hoped the signing of Brayford would keep the natives form getting restless... It's done nothing of the sort.

I think when the post season inquest comes around we will hear a lot from inside the club about how the Evans situation upset things and the unfairness of it all....but they only have themselves to blame anyone with half a brain could see the tsunami of shit that would roll our way on that one.