Ownership developments

[Harrisblade]

Hope they get their collar felt.

Maybe the beneficial owners phone number will be on it?

 

[BushBlade]

The assets are worth what they are worth based on current usage. The last valuation is in the accounts. The hotel wasn't included. You appear to be trying to undervalue them and then when realising the hotel isn't included, writing them down some more when your basic claim was a few million out to start with. God knows how you can claim to be right.

There are plenty on here thinking the land at BL is prime residential land, ready for six bedroom mansions to be built with a huge waiting list of people desperate to relocate from Dore. Now it's just an inner city shithole worth peanuts.

Was it the News of the World that had the strapline "All human life is here"?


Oh, and those differing land values are dreamt up by anti McCabists. FFS.

I’ll put it very simply; there is no-one on this board who has the necessary skill, expertise, access to information and experience to value our built assets.

 

[Superblades]

The hotel is nothing to do with the football club Snooty.

Did McCabes’ business buy that off the club for a £1/next to nothing or is that just another rumour that circles round?

 

[west_yorks_blade]

I’ll put it very simply; there is no-one on this board who has the necessary skill, expertise, access to information and experience to value our built assets.

Not even Pinchy?

 

[snootyfenooty]

The assets are worth what they are worth based on current usage. The last valuation is in the accounts. The hotel wasn't included. You appear to be trying to undervalue them and then when realising the hotel isn't included, writing them down some more when your basic claim was a few million out to start with. God knows how you can claim to be right.

There are plenty on here thinking the land at BL is prime residential land, ready for six bedroom mansions to be built with a huge waiting list of people desperate to relocate from Dore. Now it's just an inner city shithole worth peanuts.

Was it the News of the World that had the strapline "All human life is here"?

Oh, and those differing land values are dreamt up by anti McCabists. FFS.

My, you're in an argumentative mood today. If you read my post again it was about the Prince's motives when he involved himself with the club rather than whether the hotel was included in the assets or not. That's irrelevant other than giving you the opportunity to score a point. You may be right, I've no reason to dispute it. Now back to the issue about the Prince; what do you think his future intentions are and do you think it could lead to a positive outcome if he took control?

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I’ll put it very simply; there is no-one on this board who has the necessary skill, expertise, access to information and experience to value our built assets.

If it helps, I'm a consultant in Mergers and Acquisitions and can put a framework together to deduce the numbers, the info is there for all to see in the accounts.

 

[metalblade]

Did McCabes’ business buy that off the club for a £1/next to nothing or is that just another rumour that circles round?

Can't be right some people would think that was asset stripping

 

[Balham]

Did McCabes’ business buy that off the club for a £1/next to nothing or is that just another rumour that circles round?

Consideration of £1 'bought' the hotel...and all the millions of pounds of debt attached to it.

 

[BushBlade]

If it helps, I'm a consultant in Mergers and Acquisitions and can put a framework together to deduce the numbers, the info is there for all to see in the accounts.

Clearly you’re a consultant as what you say sounds good but it isn’t clear whether you’re saying you can actually value it or just tell someone else how to. As a consultant, I suspect it’s the latter.

But yes, please do, it would be nice to settle a long running debate.

 

[BushBlade]

Can't be right some people would think that was asset stripping

Only those who don’t understand what asset stripping is.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Clearly you’re a consultant as what you say sounds good but it isn’t clear whether you’re saying you can actually value it or just tell someone else how to. As a consultant, I suspect it’s the latter.

But yes, please do, it would be nice to settle a long running debate.

Unfortunately I can't disclose this information as I've signed an NDA.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Did McCabes’ business buy that off the club for a £1/next to nothing or is that just another rumour that circles round?

Just bullshit. Him buying it and taking over the equivalent debt and the financing of ongoing losses which he took on board rather than leave the club with has only harmed his finances.

Yes, his idea, and he's paying the price for it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Consideration of £1 'bought' the hotel...and all the millions of pounds of debt attached to it.

No one will challenge that head on. No one ever has up to now and it won't stop it being claimed in the future.

 

[BushBlade]

Unfortunately I can't disclose this information as I've signed an NDA.

That reminds me of the very old joke about the bloke in the hot air balloon who gets lost and floats downwards until he spots a man stood in a field and shouts ‘where am I?’

The man replies ‘you’re about fifteen feet above the ground’

Bloke in balloon; you must be an accountant. What you’ve told me is factually correct but useless’

Man on ground; and you must be a management consultant because you don’t know where you are or how to get to where you want but you think it’s my fucking fault.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It's very difficult to value football clubs. The main assets (to the public eye) are the players but that's about as unstable as it gets. That leaves us with the intrinsic value of the 'fixed assets' and any revenue they could generate.

I've got very basic accountancy quals so it's way beyond my expertise but it seems to boil down to both sides wanting to apply different 'value' to the assets, either up or down dependant on how it suits them. The accounts are basically worthless if either party thinks the value applied is incorrect. Something is only worth what somebody else will pay for it.

This is going to drag on........

 

[Sean Thornton]

My, you're in an argumentative mood today. If you read my post again it was about the Prince's motives when he involved himself with the club rather than whether the hotel was included in the assets or not. That's irrelevant other than giving you the opportunity to score a point. You may be right, I've no reason to dispute it. Now back to the issue about the Prince; what do you think his future intentions are and do you think it could lead to a positive outcome if he took control?

You said you were right...... but......

No idea what his intentions are. Do you? I'd have thought if they were progressive and positive, he might not be quibbling about a couple of million.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It's very difficult to value football clubs. The main assets (to the public eye) are the players but that's about as unstable as it gets. That leaves us with the intrinsic value of the 'fixed assets' and any revenue they could generate.

I've got very basic accountancy quals so it's way beyond my expertise but it seems to boil down to both sides wanting to apply different 'value' to the assets, either up or down dependant on how it suits them. The accounts are basically worthless if either party thinks the value applied is incorrect. Something is only worth what somebody else will pay for it.

This is going to drag on........

Theres not much in the way of tangible assets actually in the football club.

(See BushBlade joke above)

 

[Sean Thornton]

I’ll put it very simply; there is no-one on this board who has the necessary skill, expertise, access to information and experience to value our built assets.

But God loves triers......

 

[Carlton Blade]

Theres not much in the way of tangible assets actually in the football club.

(See BushBlade joke above)

But what about the hotel????? (Joking)

Training ground, Bramall Lane? Anything else above £250k?

 

[BushBlade]

Theres not much in the way of tangible assets actually in the football club.

(See BushBlade joke above)

Tbf, the original discussion was about valuing the building assets. The point we’re all trying to make is that you can’t do that without taking into account its current use and possible future use. The future use is unknown because it’s very difficult to assert what it would take to actually get planning consent and the current use is very specialist with very few comparables.

You’d be foolish to try to carry out a residual valuation as you’d be making huge assumptions of the ‘development potential’ because you’ve got little idea of what planning consent you might get, in the event you were somehow able to get the existing football club out of the stadium.

The only two examples I can think of are Brighton and Hove Albion, where their owner convinced the fans to support a planning application to turn the Goldstone into a retail park so that they ‘could borrow against the increased land value to invest in players’.
And Wimbledon, where the local residents just wanted them to get the fuck out of Merton.

Times have changed since then. The story of how Charlton fans were prepared to stand for local election to secure a return to The Valley is well worth researching.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Tbf, the original discussion was about valuing the building assets. The point we’re all trying to make is that you can’t do that without taking into account its current use and possible future use. The future use is unknown because it’s very difficult to assert what it would take to actually get planning consent and the current use is very specialist with very few comparables.

You’d be foolish to try to carry out a residual valuation as you’d be making huge assumptions of the ‘development potential’ because you’ve got little idea of what planning consent you might get, in the event you were somehow able to get the existing football club out of the stadium.

The only two examples I can think of are Brighton and Hove Albion, where their owner convinced the fans to support a planning application to turn the Goldstone into a retail park so that they ‘could borrow against the increased land value to invest in players’.
And Wimbledon, where the local residents just wanted them to get the fuck out of Merton.

Times have changed since then. The story of how Charlton fans were prepared to stand for local election to secure a return to The Valley is well worth researching.

I understand l was wrong about it being over valuations and it was actually about the Princes ideas for the future. Now you come back with this.......

 

[BushBlade]

I understand l was wrong about it being over valuations and it was actually about the Princes ideas for the future. Now you come back with this.......

Cant say owt else. Scooter_mcgavin has just paid me a decent wedge to sign an NDA.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

That reminds me of the very old joke about the bloke in the hot air balloon who gets lost and floats downwards until he spots a man stood in a field and shouts ‘where am I?’

The man replies ‘you’re about fifteen feet above the ground’

Bloke in balloon; you must be an accountant. What you’ve told me is factually correct but useless’

Man on ground; and you must be a management consultant because you don’t know where you are or how to get to where you want but you think it’s my fucking fault.

Ha ha.

I am a consultant in another field and totally get this joke. However I feel it's more about Senior Management and 'third party' consultancies.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Cant say owt else. Scooter_mcgavin has just paid me a decent wedge to sign an NDA.

Undisclosed?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Ha ha.

I am a consultant in another field and totally get this joke. However I feel it's more about Senior Management and 'third party' consultancies.

And they say Accountancy is boring....

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

And they say Accountancy is boring....

I'm a numbers man, my intent was to be a management accountant.

My field is actually pretty decent (so I think).

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm a numbers man, my intent was to be a management accountant.

My field is actually pretty decent (so I think).

You're a farmer then?

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

You're a farmer then?

On the ball today Sean.

 

[snootyfenooty]

You said you were right...... but......

No idea what his intentions are. Do you? I'd have thought if they were progressive and positive, he might not be quibbling about a couple of million.

Never did say I was right, I may have made the wrong assumption and stand corrected. This was never the main tenet of the argument I was putting forward so you can bang on about it as much as you like. However, you may have inadvertently come across one of the stumbling blocks in the Prince's reluctance to accede to McCabe's terms. By pointing out the hotel is not included in the assets, then presumably neither is the the carbuncle of an office block in the other corner which juts out into the stadium itself. So the Prince buys the ground and has two edifices belonging to McCabe Enterprises strategically blocking any future development of those parts of the ground and therefore retaining his presence and some influence, albeit indirectly, within the club. So his quibble could be about more than a couple of million quid don't you think?

If you look at the attached document, the land value of ground is worth about £5m based upon a footprint of about 3 hectares and the valuation as detailed therein. That assumes full planning permission for housing and typical land values for this type of use in the Sheffield area. OK, this is a ball park figure but even if you put a generous margin on it, no ones going to become an overnight tycoon by stripping this particular asset from the club. There is no way the Prince has involved himself with the club just to go to these extreme lengths just to enrich himself to the tune of a few million. And as I mentioned before, this would still go nowhere near to what he has already put in.

The basis of my argument originally was that the Prince's interests were in the development of the football club rather than the development of real estate. I am still of this opinion because his options outside of this are not going to result in any worthwhile gain to him.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ebruary_2015_Land_value_publication_FINAL.pdf

 

[Sean Thornton]

Never did say I was right, I may have made the wrong assumption and stand corrected. This was never the main tenet of the argument I was putting forward so you can bang on about it as much as you like. However, you may have inadvertently come across one of the stumbling blocks in the Prince's reluctance to accede to McCabe's terms. By pointing out the hotel is not included in the assets, then presumably neither is the the carbuncle of an office block in the other corner which juts out into the stadium itself. So the Prince buys the ground and has two edifices belonging to McCabe Enterprises strategically blocking any future development of those parts of the ground and therefore retaining his presence and some influence, albeit indirectly, within the club. So his quibble could be about more than a couple of million quid don't you think?

If you look at the attached document, the land value of ground is worth about £5m based upon a footprint of about 3 hectares and the valuation as detailed therein. That assumes full planning permission for housing and typical land values for this type of use in the Sheffield area. OK, this is a ball park figure but even if you put a generous margin on it, no ones going to become an overnight tycoon by stripping this particular asset from the club. There is no way the Prince has involved himself with the club just to go to these extreme lengths just to enrich himself to the tune of a few million. And as I mentioned before, this would still go nowhere near to what he has already put in.

The basis of my argument originally was that the Prince's interests were in the development of the football club rather than the development of real estate. I am still of this opinion because his options outside of this are not going to result in any worthwhile gain to him.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ebruary_2015_Land_value_publication_FINAL.pdf

Let's hope the Prince noticed the office block and the hotel five years ago. Otherwise he's going to look a bit daft. I'm sure he's stayed in the hotel.

However you want to present it, you're talking the valuation down. As shown above. I may be wrong but I got the impression it wasn't about the valuation but about whether the Prince actually wants it.
I would have thought the means of valuation would have been set down in the original agreement. But who knows?