Now That Hurts....

[Tyler Durden]

Ok, take a simple example. You are stood on a field of grass, football in front of you, you have not yet kicked the ball but you know you want to and plan on doing so. The fact is that you are going to kick the ball, but as it has not yet happened, there is no way it can be a fact of present and therefore must be a fact of future.

It gets complicated as you could say that there is no way you can prove nothing is going to happen to the ball before you kick it, but likewise you also cannot prove that something will happen to the ball before you kick it. It can get even worse than that believe it or not but for the sake of your sanity and mine I'll leave it there for now.

That's conjecture. See Russells Teapot hypothesis.

 

[Barney]

All right what's your blue print for the future, day one after the Scunny game, imagine you are now in charge director of football what would you do?

Well first of all we need to make sure all but Long and McEveley don't have their contracts renewed. This needs to be agreed as soon as possible and before the remaining games so that it can be made clear that this will happen regardless of how well each player might play for the remainder of the season.

Then it's about trying to move on the few that aren't out of contract but have been performing equally as badly for the majority of the season - players like Coutts.

After that the focus shifts to recruitment, where I have listed in another thread (Sothall Blade's thread if I remember rightly) some of the players I'd want us to be in for. Not necessarily those players but the category they all fall under. One thing is for certain, the whole habitual procedure with the way we recruit and the type of player we tend to sign needs to be stopped and changed at the first opportunity.

 

[Barney]

That's conjecture. See Russells Teapot hypothesis.

Technically it isn't, but meh.

 

[Blade82]

Too little too late for me. He has shown too many signs that he will bugger next season up for it to be worth what a huge risk it would be for anyone taking charge of what should be a wide scale re build, let alone somebody that has shown in heaps of evidence that he isn't up to it. But then again I'm a cynical ruthless bastard that knows fuck all.

We all know fuck all otherwise we'd be in the hotseat ourselves. It's just opinions and I wondered whether your real concern was that a positive end to the season would keep Adkins here. It seemed to come across in your post that you were more concerned the players would be given contract extensions.

Arn't you worried that a change in manager may mean players are given another chance and offered contracts or not offloaded in the cases of scougall mcnulty etc ?

 

[PokerBlade]

Adams has blatantly got much better at receiving the ball with his back to goal. He doesn't always make the right decision and I'd like to see him turn and run more, but he's holding off the defenders and keeping hold of the ball. His link up play is improving. He worked hard again today as well which is a big thing, he hasn't always done that. Needs to maintain this sort of work rate.

I agree, decision making is definitely a big part. He's also young enough to gain a bit more muscle, and both of those things can easily come with good preparation for next season and a bit more experience.

 

[Barney]

We all know fuck all otherwise we'd be in the hotseat ourselves. It's just opinions and I wondered whether your real concern was that a positive end to the season would keep Adkins here. It seemed to come across in your post that you were more concerned the players would be given contract extensions.

I'm worried about both. The former causes worry of the latter.

Arn't you worried that a change in manager may mean players are given another chance and offered contracts or not offloaded in the cases of scougall mcnulty etc ?

But that's the problem, if we had anyone on the board who has a clue about football any new manager coming in would know who's contracts to renew and not renew. Also, surely you can't be suggesting that just because supporters aren't in the hotseat, every single one of us doesn't know anything.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Highlights: http://www.skysports.com/footballleague/championship/video/10237131/sheff-utd-0-0-gillingham

Have to say, usually when it cuts to us playing out of the back I'm expecting an interception and chance for the opposition. Two lovely moves – bad misses by Coutts and Adams on first glance. Cracker of an effort by Adams that rattled the goal frame.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I would just be glad to start a season where we could spend money on players instead of paying off the manager and his staff.....

 

[judge]

Liked the shove on the keeper

 

[Blade82]

I'm worried about both. The former causes worry of the latter.

But that's the problem, if we had anyone on the board who has a clue about football any new manager coming in would know who's contracts to renew and not renew. Also, surely you can't be suggesting that just because supporters aren't in the hotseat, every single one of us doesn't know anything.

I'm saying in comparison to the likes of Adkins we know little about managing a football club. Yeah we all have the general understanding of football and what's needed to win football matches but we look better with hindsight. They're making on the spot, split second decisions which we scrutinise after the event. In comparison to these guys who have played the game and worked in that environment for decades we are nowhere near. Do you think you are like??

Adkins has proven that in the right situation and with the right backing he knows what he's doing. You're right, we have no one on the board who has the right footballing knowledge and experience to be the extra chink (no pun re our recent ITK poster intended) in the chain that's is needed to run a club properly. That area deserves more attention from our owners rather than simply just bowing to fan pressure and sacking the manager again.

 

[Barney]

I'm saying in comparison to the likes of Adkins we know little about managing a football club. Yeah we all have the general understanding of football and what's needed to win football matches but we look better with hindsight. They're making on the spot, split second decisions which we scrutinise after the event. In comparison to these guys who have played the game and worked in that environment for decades we are nowhere near. Do you think you are like??

Adkins has proven that in the right situation and with the right backing he knows what he's doing. You're right, we have no one on the board who has the right footballing knowledge and experience to be the extra chink (no pun re our recent ITK poster intended) in the chain that's is needed to run a club properly. That area deserves more attention from our owners rather than simply just bowing to fan pressure and sacking the manager again.

Yes but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that Adkins has shown throughout the course of the season that he just is not up to the job. Signings, tactics, substitutions, player selections. Signings being the big one. I believe these good few results however welcome they are, will end up clouding what has gone on for the majority of the season for a good few of the fanbase. Your post here is a nice example of this, nowhere have you mentioned anything about how Adkins has managed this season.

It all boils down to whether or not what Adkins has shown makes him too much of a risk to be able to carry out such an important task in rebuilding the squad for next season. I'm saying it's too much of a risk, you appear to be thinking it's not. The difference is I'm looking at everything he has done at the club while you're just pointing to the fact that you don't want to sack another manager.

 

[Ricky]

I agree, decision making is definitely a big part. He's also young enough to gain a bit more muscle, and both of those things can easily come with good preparation for next season and a bit more experience.

I don't think he needs to gain any muscle, I think he just needs to learn how to fully use and maximise his strength. If anything I'd say he needs to trim down a bit and focus on pace, because he has lost a bit. That's probably due to the way his body's naturally developed since starting to train regularly with a professional club and all the conditioning work that goes with it.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Arn't you worried that a change in manager may mean players are given another chance and offered contracts or not offloaded in the cases of scougall mcnulty etc ?

Very much so, even worried that some might be foolin Nige.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Words I never thought I would say, Hammond didn't put a foot wrong.

Fair play to old lead boots today, though the foul which appeared to remove a couple of the oppo player's front teeth was as gormless and unnecessary as they come. Thought he was lucky not to get in serious bother. A ref with half a brain and one good eye could have stuck it to him big time.

He was diabolical from start to finish, one of the worst all season and there's plenty of competition for that title in this division.

Quite. Please see comment, above !

Too little too late for me. He has shown too many signs that he will bugger next season up for it to be worth what a huge risk it would be for anyone taking charge of what should be a wide scale re build, let alone somebody that has shown in heaps of evidence that he isn't up to it. But then again I'm a cynical ruthless bastard that knows fuck all.

Only someone not at today's game could describe our efforts this afternoon as "too little". "Too late", for this season at least, I'll give you ....

 

[Barney]

Fair play to old lead boots today, though the foul which appeared to remove a couple of the oppo player's front teeth was as gormless and unnecessary as they come. Thought he was lucky not to get in serious bother. A ref with half a brain and one good eye could have stuck it to him big time.



Quite. Please see comment, above !



Only someone not at today's game could describe our efforts this afternoon as "too little". "Too late", for this season at least, I'll give you ....

I know, it's too much too soon.

 

[Blade82]

Yes but you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that Adkins has shown throughout the course of the season that he just is not up to the job. Signings, tactics, substitutions, player selections. Signings being the big one. I believe these good few results however welcome they are, will end up clouding what has gone on for the majority of the season for a good few of the fanbase. Your post here is a nice example of this, nowhere have you mentioned anything about how Adkins has managed this season.

It all boils down to whether or not what Adkins has shown makes him too much of a risk to be able to carry out such an important task in rebuilding the squad for next season. I'm saying it's too much of a risk, you appear to be thinking it's not. The difference is I'm looking at everything he has done at the club while you're just pointing to the fact that you don't want to sack another manager.

How can you possibly judge whether anyone else will do a better job. Blind faith? Adkins knows this squad better than anyone else so for me is best placed to put it right in the summer. We've had a poisionous environment at the club, whether it be clough's cliques, out of contract players, a board reluctant to strengthen, fans booing players etc it's been tough for him and other newcomers. Adkins, in my opinion, will be a better league one manager than he has been this season. it's our 5th season but only his 1st and he's had to pay the price for others who have failed. the signs are there that we've improved over the past month or so, at home especially not just results but individual performances.

Who is your number one choice to replace Adkins? I'm not one for trawling though old posts, but were calling for clough's head? Sacking managers in the hope of someone getting us out of league one simply hasn't worked, we've wasted 5 seasons doing so. It seems you would happily carry on with this strategy. The last time a manager was given more than two full seasons we gained promotion. The blame for these last 5 seasons in league one lay with the board, not Adkins. They need to take a new approach if we're to go up.

 

[Barney]

The blame for these last 5 seasons in league one lay with the board, not Adkins. They need to take a new approach if we're to go up.

I have never mentioned anything about blaming Adkins for the four seasons he hasn't been here. Very odd of you to suggest this.

How can you possibly judge whether anyone else will do a better job. Blind faith? Adkins knows this squad better than anyone else so for me is best placed to put it right in the summer. We've had a poisionous environment at the club, whether it be clough's cliques, out of contract players, a board reluctant to strengthen, fans booing players etc it's been tough for him and other newcomers. Adkins, in my opinion, will be a better league one manager than he has been this season. it's our 5th season but only his 1st and he's had to pay the price for others who have failed. the signs are there that we've improved over the past month or so, at home especially not just results but individual performances.

Who is your number one choice to replace Adkins? I'm not one for trawling though old posts, but were calling for clough's head? Sacking managers in the hope of someone getting us out of league one simply hasn't worked, we've wasted 5 seasons doing so. It seems you would happily carry on with this strategy. The last time a manager was given more than two full seasons we gained promotion. The blame for these last 5 seasons in league one lay with the board, not Adkins. They need to take a new approach if we're to go up.

In the same way that I cannot tell that anyone else will do a better job, you cannot tell that Adkins is going to improve. The difference here being that there is no evidence either way for a new manager, where as all the evidence from Adkins time at the club points to the fact that he won't improve.

 

[Ecco1889]

Bit more like the old days at times today,the crowd getting involved,it's the first match for ages ive come out losing my voice..really enjoyed it

 

[Blade82]

I have never mentioned anything about blaming Adkins for the four seasons he hasn't been here. Very odd of you to suggest this.


In the same way that I cannot tell that anyone else will do a better job, you cannot tell that Adkins is going to improve. The difference here being that there is no evidence either way for a new manager, where as all the evidence from Adkins time at the club points to the fact that he won't improve.

I'm explaining why I believe the board need to change their approach of chopping managers who don't get us promoted after one season. You seem to be behind their strategy.

Have you not been to recent games? You must have seen some improvement? Things are improving, hence your concern over the upturn in performances.

Neither of us know, obviously,but I believe he's better placed to get us up next year over any realistic name you can throw at me. Only time will tell but hope he gets exactly that. Who is your choice if Adkins goes?

 

[Barney]

I'm explaining why I believe the board need to change their approach of chopping managers who don't get us promoted after one season. You seem to be behind their strategy.

Have you not been to recent games? You must have seen some improvement? Things are improving, hence your concern over the upturn in performances.

Neither of us know, obviously,but I believe he's better placed to get us up next year over any realistic name you can throw at me. Only time will tell but hope he gets exactly that. Who is your choice if Adkins goes?

I wouldn't really be sure about who I wanted. The bit in bold, I cannot understand your logic here because as I say, there is no evidence either way for a new manager as for how he would perform, where as all the evidence from Adkins time at the club points to the fact that he won't improve.

I am basing the fact that I want a change on the mounds of evidence while he has been at the club that he isn't capable of an important task like re building a squad, where as you are basing yours on the fact that you just don't want to sack another manager.

 

[Bladesway]

surely you can't be suggesting that just because supporters aren't in the hotseat, every single one of us doesn't know anything.

I'd suggest that is the most fundamental truth of all. To be fair to you Barney there are some good points in your posts in this thread, most notably about changing recruitment policy. But we don't really know anything about the workings of the club.

 

[Blade82]

I wouldn't really be sure about who I wanted.

Dodging that one so you don't end up with egg on your face!

Not sure how you can be so sure we need to get rid when you don't have a solution, other than sack him. McCabe has a bad enough track record but what if he goes for a Punt on another David weir or another blade doing well in the lower leagues like Micky Adams or drags his heels and the retained list is done again before a new manager comes in and we're back to square one. I can't believe you are behind a strategy that has quite clearly fucked this club up so badly over the past decade.

Signs are there that there have been improvements (results and individual performances). Adkins isn't just rebuilding a squad he's rebuilding a club and it takes more that 10months.

If we're sitting top this time next year I couldn't give a rats arse if you were right and I was wrong. Time will tell and we want the same thing, that's the one thing every member of this forum should be able to agree on at least.

 

[Barney]

Dodging that one so you don't end up with egg on your face!

Not sure how you can be so sure we need to get rid when you don't have a solution, other than sack him. McCabe has a bad enough track record but what if he goes for a Punt on another David weir or another blade doing well in the lower leagues like Micky Adams or drags his heels and the retained list is done again before a new manager comes in and we're back to square one. I can't believe you are behind a strategy that has quite clearly fucked this club up so badly over the past decade.

Signs are there that there have been improvements (results and individual performances). Adkins isn't just rebuilding a squad he's rebuilding a club and it takes more that 10months.

If we're sitting top this time next year I couldn't give a rats arse if you were right and I was wrong. Time will tell and we want the same thing, that's the one thing every member of this forum should be able to agree on at least.

You're ignoring the evidence that is there. There's no logic in your argument whatsoever. You don't have a reason to want Adkins to stay other than the fact that you don't want to sack another manager, and you appear to be talking gobbledygook to steer away from that.

 

[PeteBlade]

Too little too late for me. He has shown too many signs that he will bugger next season up for it to be worth what a huge risk it would be for anyone taking charge of what should be a wide scale re build, let alone somebody that has shown in heaps of evidence that he isn't up to it. But then again I'm a cynical ruthless bastard that knows fuck all.

And you haven't watched us play regularly since October. If at all.

 

[Barney]

And you haven't watched us play regularly since October. If at all.

The point I was making doesn't require me to have.

 

[PeteBlade]

You're ignoring the evidence that is there. There's no logic in your argument whatsoever. You don't have a reason to want Adkins to stay other than the fact that you don't want to sack another manager, and you appear to be talking gobbledygook to steer away from that.

Yes, he clearly does, he suggests exactly why in the above post.

You've simply ignored what he's said because you've no idea whether what he's said is accurate or not as you don't watch football matches. Exactly the same as BTL.

 

[PeteBlade]

The point I was making doesn't require me to have.

It really does.

 

[Barney]

It really does.

Oh no it doesn't.

 

[Barney]

Yes, he clearly does, he suggests exactly why in the above post.

You've simply ignored what he's said because you've no idea whether what he's said is accurate or not as you don't watch football matches. Exactly the same as BTL.

What, so as well as the fact that he doesn't want to change managers, he also wants to stay with Adkins because the performances have been better the last few games? Persuasive. I'm going to be controversial and suggest that would be to avoid looking at the bigger picture, where he will find that we are on course for our lowest ever finish in league division three in the time that we have been down here.

 

[PeteBlade]

What, so as well as the fact that he doesn't want to change managers, he also wants to stay with Adkins because the performances have been better the last few games? Persuasive. I'm going to be controversial and suggest that would be to avoid the bigger picture, where he will find that we are on course for our lowest ever finish in league division three.

You don't watch football matches. At all. Therefore his view on how we play in football matches counts so much very more than yours does.