Norwood - The elephant in the room.

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blade67 said:
Is Hamer the Norwood replacement?

So far he's looked really uncomfortable when asked to play there, which is why Norwood is back. Souza, who I initially liked is now showing us his limitations and no one else is fit.
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Hamer hasn't been tried in Norwood's position yet. When he's played central midfield it has always been wide in a three.
 
ISZA ⚔️ said:
You don’t know that. And the fact he didn’t want to be here upon the conclusion of that tells me everything I need to know.
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I know as much as you do, so my guess is as good as yours!

He did admit to living in hotels over the previous 2 transfer windows though so he was expecting/wanting to be sold at some point it would be fair to assume.
 
coolasanidiot said:
For all the moaning about Norwood. Only player we have who is calm on trhe ball. Only player we have who can put his foot on the ball. Only player we have who can receive ball in a tight position. Every time we play good he plays good. Against 10 men at Brighton - freed up Norwood he played good. Bottle to take that pen against Wolves- off the scale.

We should have upgraded- but for me Ollie is not priority to change right now. Yes he gets caught on the ball - but Jesus he offers for the ball all the time- in this team that is a massive trait to be admired.
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Getting caught on the ball when your role is playing in front of the defence isn’t really something you can just ignore though.
 
SUFCScorecard said:
Norwood deserves a statue at some point in the future. He has been one of the best midfielders we've ever had and is firmly in the catergory of blades legend.

In the first half of the season last year all the Championship podcasters were all lauding him as the best player in the division. His drop off in performance in the 2nd half of the season was huge, which has me convinced he was carrying an injury. Thankfully we had the perfect replacement in Doyle ready to step in and it was a big mistake not signing him in the summer.

Anyway Norwood is playing well right now and seems to be over whatever was holding him back during the 2nd half of last season. I wish we weren't still relying on him, but he is head and shoulders the best DM we have and so we have to play him until at least January (where I doubt we have the funds to upgrade - so probably the rest of the season).

Going forward its time to drop Souza out of the team and drop Hamer further back alongside him. We have plenty of options we can play at AM (McAtee, Slimane, Osborn) or as wide forwards (McAtee, Osborn, Traore, Bogle, Archer) so we don't need to be wasting Hamer up there.
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If you call playing well booting it anywhere as he did 3 times in the first 15 minutes against wolves you're very easily pleased.
 
norwood fleck souza and osborn are not premier league quality and yet their the bulk of our midfield choices is it any wonder were likely to get relegated all 4 far too slow for the premier league of today
 
Bergen Blade said:
The last game apart, Souza's passing accuracy has been good. If partnered by a more dynamic player, there may be a little more forward passing options opening up for him.
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I don’t see any reason Souza can’t replicate almost everything Lundstram did in early 19/20. Very similar build, both very difficult to dispossess in small areas, capable of disciplined defending. I’ve actually seen Souza carry the ball pretty well a couple of times as well.

Has the potential to be a useful role player
 
coolasanidiot said:
For all the moaning about Norwood. Only player we have who is calm on trhe ball. Only player we have who can put his foot on the ball. Only player we have who can receive ball in a tight position. Every time we play good he plays good. Against 10 men at Brighton - freed up Norwood he played good. Bottle to take that pen against Wolves- off the scale.

We should have upgraded- but for me Ollie is not priority to change right now. Yes he gets caught on the ball - but Jesus he offers for the ball all the time- in this team that is a massive trait to be admired.
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He’s the only player in the top 5 divisions in Europe who touches the ball 60+ times a game and hasn’t had a progressive ball carry all season. He’s playing a role the rest of football abandoned 3 years ago.

Blame him or PH. His inability to carry the ball or move forward in any way is something no good teams carries anymore. We basically have 4 centre backs when we have the ball
 
Carlton Blade said:
I don’t see any reason Souza can’t replicate almost everything Lundstram did in early 19/20. Very similar build, both very difficult to dispossess in small areas, capable of disciplined defending. I’ve actually seen Souza carry the ball pretty well a couple of times as well.

Has the potential to be a useful role player
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Lundstram was a lot more of a ‘runner’ than Souza. Lundstram looked like a racing snake relative to Souza.
 
how much longer are RND Jebbison and Osula and others still on the injury list going to be out

all wont necessarily play but there would be alternatives on the bench which is killing us as Hecky's options of substitutions are severely limited
 
blade too long said:
how much longer are RND Jebbison and Osula and others still on the injury list going to be out

all wont necessarily play but there would be alternatives on the bench which is killing us as Hecky's options of substitutions are severely limited
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Osula came on as sub last Sunday
 
Houston_Blade said:
He wouldn’t be a first choice midfielder if we had more fit players.

If he’s dropped we have a choice of Osborn, Fleck and Slimane to replace him. None of those 3 have set the world alight so it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’ for me.

The other option would be to drop Hamer in and play Slimane or Osborn further forward. Hardly inspiring!
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If go Souza and Hamer in front of the back 3, and Mcatee in behind 2 strikers
 

Houston_Blade said:
I’d say it was more a case of us wanting to cash in, I can’t imagine he’s always dreamed of playing for Burnley.
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That's exactly right. He wanted to stay, and that prick sold him and Ndiaye under Hecky's nose whilst pocketing all the money we won for promotion
 
Snowflake said:
Osula ?
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He’s a body I suppose but it really highlights our poor recruitment over the last few years that we have Archer, Brewster and McBurnie who could be classed as ‘senior’ (2 of these are permanently crocked) and then a set of players who are ‘ones for the future’ and should probably be out getting experience lower down the pyramid.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Hamer hasn't been tried in Norwood's position yet. When he's played central midfield it has always been wide in a three.
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Maybe not the exact same position, but that role. The playmaker, if you like. West Ham is the best example (from a very small sample) where he tried to be the playmaker from deep and it didn't work at all.

I understand the limitations to Norwood, but also understand why Hecky brought him back.

I'd be happy to see more of Hamer playing that role.
 
blade67 said:
Maybe not the exact same position, but that role. The playmaker, if you like. West Ham is the best example (from a very small sample) where he tried to be the playmaker from deep and it didn't work at all.

I understand the limitations to Norwood, but also understand why Hecky brought him back.

I'd be happy to see more of Hamer playing that role.
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In terms of chances created and all other underlying attacking numbers West Ham was far and away our best attacking performance of the season
 
The elephant for me isn't Norwood but Souza like many others have suggested.

I truly hope that Souza can improve and be the player we thought we had signed. But as it stands I feel that Souza does more harm than good in our play.
That's not to say he's dreadful all of every match. But there are issues to his play, predominantly that he's not the enforcer I thought he was and his passing isn't up to scratch either at times..

I've seen some revert to stats to suggest Souza is doing better than we think. Stats can be deceptive though and I think you can often see enough without them.
Sometimes stats can show you more than you think either way but in this instance I think I know what I see.
 
Carlton Blade said:
In terms of chances created and all other underlying attacking numbers West Ham was far and away our best attacking performance of the season
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Wow. Really?

I thought we looked terrible that day. Hopeless.

Like I say, I'm not dogmatic about any player or system, but my eyes have told me we've looked no better with Norwood benched, which is depressing because we did in the division below.
 

blade67 said:
Wow. Really?

I thought we looked terrible that day. Hopeless.

Like I say, I'm not dogmatic about any player or system, but my eyes have told me we've looked no better with Norwood benched, which is depressing because we did in the division below.
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I was looking earlier. It's actually quite stark how much more attacking we did in that game compared to any other. I have no answers, I wasn't impressed either. Goes to show that numbers alone should never be relied on.

I think it was the replacement and what that type of player (dynamic, mobile, aggressive) did to enable Berge that really helped show Norwood's deficiencies in a harsh light.

Doyle/Berge is a modern, dynamic, athletic CM duo. Norwood/Souza is straight out of the 90s
 
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