Norwood - The elephant in the room.

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DronnieBlade said:
There’s a lad at Burnley with whom we could have managed better during his time here that would have worked well alongside Vini and Gus !!!

Ifs and buts !!!!!

UTB
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You're advocating for the one guy on planet earth who's slower, more laborious and weaker out of possession than Norwood?!?!?!

What the holy mother of fuck.....

One of the few upsides of our current predicament is we're not conceding 70%+ possession with that 6ft 4in tree trunk ambling round midfield like a drunk staggering into Chubbys on a Sat night...
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Tin Hat time, but Osborn suits our current style of play (esp away from home) better than Norwood. If dominate possession then Norwood is undoubtedly first choice, but out of possession he lacks the legs, energy, agility....

Said it a couple of times already, we'd be better off starting with pups like Osborn/Coulibally to chase shadows for 60mins, then bring Norwood on for the last 30 (or 40 as it is these days) where we'll have more possession....
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Based on 30 minutes against 10 men
 
Swannyblade said:
Norwood wouldn't be playing if Souza was playing well...as it is, Souza has been something of a liability so far - ponderous on the ball, gives up possession easily and constantly caught out of position.
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Surely you didn't read the OP with that reply.
"he is currently the cause for players like Hamer and Souza playing out of position."
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
You're advocating for the one guy on planet earth who's slower, more laborious and weaker out of possession than Norwood?!?!?!

What the holy mother of fuck.....

One of the few upsides of our current predicament is we're not conceding 70%+ possession with that 6ft 4in tree trunk ambling round midfield like a drunk staggering into Chubbys on a Sat night...
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Oi, you been following me ? 😉🤣
 
Bladey_blade said:
Surely you didn't read the OP with that reply.
"he is currently the cause for players like Hamer and Souza playing out of position."
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Souza is playing out of position because he can't be trusted to play in his preferred position. Do you really think we'd move Vini to accommodate Norwood if Vini had been bossing it in front of the back line?
 
Proper Blade said:
We were a far better team last season when Doyle came in to replace Norwood.

The fact that Norwood is playing again every week proves that we're worse off than last season. And also proves our recruitment in the summer was a failure.
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Completely agree, it was the changing of Norwood to Doyle that we were all crying out for that got us up.
 
Swannyblade said:
Souza is playing out of position because he can't be trusted to play in his preferred position. Do you really think we'd move Vini to accommodate Norwood if Vini had been bossing it in front of the back line?
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yes
 
Swannyblade said:
Souza is playing out of position because he can't be trusted to play in his preferred position. Do you really think we'd move Vini to accommodate Norwood if Vini had been bossing it in front of the back line?
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Yes I think we would, and he is not going to be able to boss it in front of the back line if he isn't playing there is he?
 
Bladey_blade said:
Yes I think we would, and he is not going to be able to boss it in front of the back line if he isn't playing there is he?
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Ok, cards on table...I think Souza is a bit shit and not capable of playing the role of holding midfielder. It might work if we play Hamer a bit deeper at the side of him, but I'm not convinced.
What we should have done is bought Tommy Doyle as the upgrade on Norwood and played him next to Hamer. Instead we've wasted a chunk a cash on Souza and Tom Davies.
Souza might turn out to be a decent signing, but given our current position in the table we haven't got the time to wait for him to acclimatise to the Premier League. If he's gonna play, he needs to improve and fast.
 

Swannyblade said:
Ok, cards on table...I think Souza is a bit shit and not capable of playing the role of holding midfielder. It might work if we play Hamer a bit deeper at the side of him, but I'm not convinced.
What we should have done is bought Tommy Doyle as the upgrade on Norwood and played him next to Hamer. Instead we've wasted a chunk a cash on Souza and Tom Davies.
Souza might turn out to be a decent signing, but given our current position in the table we haven't got the time to wait for him to acclimatise to the Premier League. If he's gonna play, he needs to improve and fast.
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This.

I don't think it's being Captain Hindsight to say not pulling out all the stops to buy Doyle was a glaring error.

Those that know even a modicum of football could clearly see the difference he made replacing Norwood, yet here we are a level higher playing the chap who wasn't mobile or athletic enough to dominate midfield in the Championship.

Once again, it brings into question, what is/was the plan? Where are we going with this?
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
This.

I don't think it's being Captain Hindsight to say not pulling out all the stops to buy Doyle was a glaring error.

Those that know even a modicum of football could clearly see the difference he made replacing Norwood, yet here we are a level higher playing the chap who wasn't mobile or athletic enough to dominate midfield in the Championship.

Once again, it brings into question, what is/was the plan? Where are we going with this?
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I thought the Doyle issue was that he was used as a makeweight in the deal with Wolves so wasn’t really available to us. I’m assuming we’d have bought him instead of Souza if he was.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
This.

I don't think it's being Captain Hindsight to say not pulling out all the stops to buy Doyle was a glaring error.

Those that know even a modicum of football could clearly see the difference he made replacing Norwood, yet here we are a level higher playing the chap who wasn't mobile or athletic enough to dominate midfield in the Championship.

Once again, it brings into question, what is/was the plan? Where are we going with this?
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Apparently we baulked at his unwillingness to take a drop in wages if we were relegated (which I understand given our experience with Brewster), but we then went and signed Souza for decent money and Davies who's now crocked.
 
Houston_Blade said:
I thought the Doyle issue was that he was used as a makeweight in the deal with Wolves so wasn’t really available to us. I’m assuming we’d have bought him instead of Souza if he was.
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I think that all happened later in the window with Wolves. Pretty sure it was rumoured that Tommy wanted to come back but the relegation clause was the stumbling block.
Probably didn't help that we thought we were keeping Ndiaye and Berge at that point and didn't have funds to play with. I also recall that we were expecting the Souza deal to be a loan rather than a full transfer.
 
Houston_Blade said:
I thought the Doyle issue was that he was used as a makeweight in the deal with Wolves so wasn’t really available to us. I’m assuming we’d have bought him instead of Souza if he was.
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I get that, but surely part of any loan is us having first dibs.... And if not, why not...

The whole thing is indicative of our making it up as we go along....
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
I get that, but surely part of any loan is us having first dibs.... And if not, why not...

The whole thing is indicative of our making it up as we go along....
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I think our initial plan was to keep hold of Ndiaye and Berge for the last year of their contracts, compliment that with a few loans and gamble that it would be enough to guide us to survival. We clearly didn't have a plan B 😂
 
Charlieblade said:
Despite his leadership qualities, and his amazing history with the club, he is currently the cause for players like Hamer and Souza playing out of position.

The only successful partnership he has enjoyed was with Fleck, and that seems unlikely to be the answer. Is it time to bench him and give the manager and newer players the opportunity to play without the deference to Norwoods seniority?

I don’t see Norwood as the solution to our current problems. I don’t see Norwood as the answer to the clubs future prospects, despite his history.
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Is Hamer the Norwood replacement?

So far he's looked really uncomfortable when asked to play there, which is why Norwood is back. Souza, who I initially liked is now showing us his limitations and no one else is fit.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
I get that, but surely part of any loan is us having first dibs.... And if not, why not...

The whole thing is indicative of our making it up as we go along....
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To be fair, Sheffield United, or anyone in our position loaning Doyle wouldn't be dictating terms to the richest club in the world. We can't really criticise the club for that.

However it's a massive problem that we lost our best player in the summer along with our first choice pairing at centre mid.

Archer, Souza and Hamer don't really make us stronger, so we've been promoted but not strengthened the team. That's likely to lead to failure isn't it.
 
Norwood deserves a statue at some point in the future. He has been one of the best midfielders we've ever had and is firmly in the catergory of blades legend.

In the first half of the season last year all the Championship podcasters were all lauding him as the best player in the division. His drop off in performance in the 2nd half of the season was huge, which has me convinced he was carrying an injury. Thankfully we had the perfect replacement in Doyle ready to step in and it was a big mistake not signing him in the summer.

Anyway Norwood is playing well right now and seems to be over whatever was holding him back during the 2nd half of last season. I wish we weren't still relying on him, but he is head and shoulders the best DM we have and so we have to play him until at least January (where I doubt we have the funds to upgrade - so probably the rest of the season).

Going forward its time to drop Souza out of the team and drop Hamer further back alongside him. We have plenty of options we can play at AM (McAtee, Slimane, Osborn) or as wide forwards (McAtee, Osborn, Traore, Bogle, Archer) so we don't need to be wasting Hamer up there.
 
if doyle refused to take a relegation clause to have his wages cut then its a moot point wether we should have signed him or not but ive a funny feeling that will turn out to be bullshit
 

Houston_Blade said:
He’d have happily stayed and played this season though. The club decided to cash in and sell him early.
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You don’t know that. And the fact he didn’t want to be here upon the conclusion of that tells me everything I need to know.
 
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