next season's attendance...................

[SteelCity Blade]

Who knows? They said 20,000 yesterday which raised a few eyebrows in the section I was sat in. Either way we're obviously down on last season so you would imagine a similar drop for next season.

I'm afraid I'll be one of those taking in the odd game next year. Football is becoming a very expensive hobby and for the first time in twenty something years I'm not prepared to throw any more money at it.

I dont expect to win every single week and I understand that we are going through a bad patch (it happens), but to spend hundreds of pounds on something every year you should be able to expect a good product and where football is concerned there is no guarantee of that.

It has already priced some fans out and unless I'm being entertained/being made to feel good most Saturday's, I'm not prepared to fork out anymore. The club has about 6 months to change my mind and it will take a lot.

 

[lenners]

As a ST holder, I personally have no objection to the cat c games, but these are built into the ST prices anyway. However, if we lose 2-3000 over the next few weeks, then I wouldn't see the point in slashing prices, because as alcoblade says, it is the road to the poorhouse.

How much money did strapon cost swfc on the last day of last season when he slashed their prices to £10 just to get a 38000 full house? Palace paid full price anyway, and wednesdayites were always going to turn out in large numbers for that do or die match. He must have cost them over £150k on that game alone.

If we start down that road, we could find ourselves with cash flow problems as well.

Instead the logic was increase season ticket and match day prices and lose 5,000 season ticket holders and watch gates crumble way more than other clubs.
That was the stupid, dense, so, so avoidable starting point.

 

[alcoblade]

Instead the logic was increase season ticket and match day prices and lose 5,000 season ticket holders and watch gates crumble way more than other clubs.
That was the stupid, dense, so, so avoidable starting point.

To turn that one back on you though, how many season tickets would we have lost anyway? A good proportion of the 5,000 I've no doubt. The product has been too crap for too long and we're coming off historical highs. Sacking Blackwell after the deadline date was a rubbish decision on several fronts.

UTB

 

[axel smeets]

To turn that one back on you though, how many season tickets would we have lost anyway? A good proportion of the 5,000 I've no doubt. The product has been too crap for too long and we're coming off historical highs. Sacking Blackwell after the deadline date was a rubbish decision on several fronts.

UTB

Agree 100% there alco. In my time watching United, 05-10 has been the best attended years I have seen. As you say, it was always going to be downhill once the premiership factor wore off and the play off final debacle didn't help either.

On your point len, I would say that although you are bang on about the timing re sacking Blackwell, I think that a certain proportion of the ST holders from last year had made their mind up not to renew anyway.

 

[lenners]

To turn that one back on you though, how many season tickets would we have lost anyway? A good proportion of the 5,000 I've no doubt. The product has been too crap for too long and we're coming off historical highs. Sacking Blackwell after the deadline date was a rubbish decision on several fronts.

UTB

Totally agree about Blackwell. That was one move that should have been made in May and could have made a significant difference to season ticket sales. Very, very poor management.
As for the general point, I've no doubt we'd have lost quite a few but 5,000 was bloody criminal.
When it comes to getting fans back, including season ticket holders long term, cheap match-day offers are one option.
SWFC have been run appallingly for years but I don't think there can be much argument that it was quite an achievement to hold on to 12,000 season ticket holders, only 2,000 less than us, this year.
Doing just about anything to get numbers into the ground, despite a very shit product, almost certainly helped.

 

[oldblade]

To turn that one back on you though, how many season tickets would we have lost anyway? A good proportion of the 5,000 I've no doubt. The product has been too crap for too long and we're coming off historical highs. Sacking Blackwell after the deadline date was a rubbish decision on several fronts.

UTB

I am only one person and can't speak for the other 4,000 or so, but I didn't renew my season ticket. And the factor that made it easy for me to come to that decision was the increase in price. I was not prepared to watch ever less entertainment for a higher price. And, sad to say, at the moment that appears to have been a pretty good decision.

Football in general is now very, very poor value. There is no guarantee of any entertainment whichever club you support. But at United at the moment the chances of getting anything even remotely approaching entertainment are probably around 1 game in 5 or 6 (and that's being charitable). I can go to the cinema for a fraction of the price and be reasonably sure that I am going to get something at least mildly entertaining.

The problem is that we are all emotionally attached to the football clubs that we support and over the years this has been exploited mercilessly. But I'm afraid it doesn't work with me anymore. I will continue to go, but only occasionally.

 

[alcoblade]

I know there'll be others like you. But I wonder how many were really affected by the extra £30 or whatever, and how many were purely board shitless. I'm pretty sure the vast majority were the latter.

Football has lost it. Average players being paid disgracefully high salaries. It's hard to stomach.

I think McCabe is responsible for a string of crap decisions in running our club. I don't think pricing is one of them.

UTB

 

[oldblade]

I think McCabe is responsible for a string of crap decisions in running our club. I don't think pricing is one of them.

UTB

Yes and no.

United's prices probably compare quite well with other clubs. However, everyone has a cut off point. And given the very poor quality football we've been watching, I felt the price rise (no matter how small) was quite insulting. You don't give people something of reducing quality and expect them to pay more for it. That is not a good strategy.

 

[raul]

Are the two not linked though Alc? It was a relatively easy call to have a look on here and see how many were bored shitless. Given this, who decided to tweak so many tails with a cheeky little increase?

 

[alcoblade]

Yes and no.

United's prices probably compare quite well with other clubs. However, everyone has a cut off point. And given the very poor quality football we've been watching, I felt the price rise (no matter how small) was quite insulting. You don't give people something of reducing quality and expect them to pay more for it. That is not a good strategy.

Maximising revenue is a good strategy. I'm not sure it has worked, that's impossible to say. But fans tend to focus on footfall when in reality, it's the revenue that pays the wages of the overpaid tossers we need to employ....

UTB

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

Are the two not linked though Alc? It was a relatively easy call to have a look on here and see how many were bored shitless. Given this, who decided to tweak so many tails with a cheeky little increase?

See above, I think it's impossible to tell. Either way, I'm convinced that if we don't improve the product, numbers will be affected much more drastically than altering prices by a few percent either way.

UTB

 

[oldblade]

[/COLOR]

See above, I think it's impossible to tell. Either way, I'm convinced that if we don't improve the product, numbers will be affected much more drastically than altering prices by a few percent either way.

UTB

When the football is so poor, why risk any more alienation at all of a steadily increasingly more disgruntled fanbase for a small increase. (Although in percentage terms it was around double the rate of inflation).

 

[JohnDenver]

But if people come to the conclusion they are being taken for a fool, it becomes hard to win them back.

The trouble is, if the team are winning, people always seem to find the money. If we'd chosen to lower prices and in exchange sold a few players, crowds would suffer equally. All clubs are caught in a horrible dilemma.

The only way to deal with this is to change football economics from the top down. The German model may not attract Ronaldo et al to that league, but look at the crowds....

 

[alcoblade]

[/COLOR]



When the football is so poor, why risk any more alienation at all of a steadily increasingly more disgruntled fanbase for a small increase. (Although in percentage terms it was around double the rate of inflation).

Because we're in debt, players wages increase way above inflation, and because we're one of the cheaper clubs in terms of season ticket price alrewady.

For £320 I get me and my sons season tickets. I can't possibly complain about a small increase in the price of entry. I can complain about the dross I'm being served up.

It's an impossible one to define. We can't know what the revenue would have been with and without the increase. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't view it solely on numbers of bums on seats.

UTB

 

[oldblade]

Because we're in debt, players wages increase way above inflation, and because we're one of the cheaper clubs in terms of season ticket price alrewady.

For £320 I get me and my sons season tickets. I can't possibly complain about a small increase in the price of entry. I can complain about the dross I'm being served up.

It's an inpossible one to define. We can't know what the revenue would have been with and without the increase. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't view it solely on numbers of bums on seats.

UTB

Yes you are right. And had there been any prospect of better football in the offing, I probably would have put up with an increase.

But the football hasn't been pleasurable for a while, and surely with the player sales over the last two years the club's running costs must be well down on what they were even at the beginning of last season.

 

[diplomat]

if Scunny are a category B, who the fuck is in category C??

Next season's prices will have to be looked at very carefully as any sort of increase in prices would be scandalous.

I'm with you here, if the time comes where I don't get a season ticket they will lose me cos I simply cannot pay £25 for a ticket + a couple of pints if the option is to go out and enjoy myself with £35 pure beer money. (and I'm not alone as I know 10 friends who are non attenders unless I get them "bring a friend offers" and they all have family who are similar) The other end of the market i.e family tickets, I thought we had some good offers but John St is half empty.

Footy needs to be cheap enough and accessible enough for lots of people to be able to make quick decisions to go to a game whenever they want at a decent price. On a strictly business sense, that's how habits form. Soon we'll be down to the hardcore and nihilistic.

 

[Stafford Blade]

I'm with you here, if the time comes where I don't get a season ticket they will lose me cos I simply cannot pay £25 for a ticket + a couple of pints if the option is to go out and enjoy myself with £35 pure beer money. (and I'm not alone as I know 10 friends who are non attenders unless I get them "bring a friend offers" and they all have family who are similar) The other end of the market i.e family tickets, I thought we had some good offers but John St is half empty.

Footy needs to be cheap enough and accessible enough for lots of people to be able to make quick decisions to go to a game whenever they want at a decent price. On a strictly business sense, that's how habits form. Soon we'll be down to the hardcore and nihilistic.

Glad someone agrees with me!! Part of the problem with football is that there are people that would go and support their team no matter what ( and fair play to them ). But the people in the ivory towers think there are far more of these type of fans than there actually are. I just cannot see how 34 quid this year can be justified to sit in the south stand this year. Tickets should be 20 quid max. Even if we were bottom, at these prices there would still be high gates. IF the prices stay as they are, I really hope more vote with their feet and stay away. Empty seats seems to be the only way those "upstairs" will get the message

 

[beightonblade]

What a shame ...... the viscous circle is well and truly engaged.... McWobblegob has spouted bollox far too often......stripped the assets and deserves what he gets.
The two hat has ripped the heart out of the club I love.

 

[SwissBlade]

Rather than worry about next seasons attendances right now, I'd rather look into the future and use something more useful like something I can win money on... like the lottery numbers.

I don't play the lottery, just interested to know the numbers so I can start a thread on it

 

[Stafford Blade]

Rather than worry about next seasons attendances right now, I'd rather look into the future and use something more useful like something I can win money on... like the lottery numbers.

I don't play the lottery, just interested to know the numbers so I can start a thread on it

and the point of your post is???

 

[Tuns]

I was a ST holder for nearly 30 years till this season, still a shareholder and blades revival member.

Part of the problem is that the majority of lost fans are ST holders and many of them had STs for at least a few years and some like me for many more - we aint the platsics people like to think we are.

Price then becomes a bigger factor cos we just aren't used to paying per match. For 30 years I have sort of forgotten what it costs me to watch United. Now I have a decision to make before every game - shall I pay £25 or whatever for what is likely to be some awful match involving some outrageously paid players who could not care about the fans or the club.

United cocked up big style by not fighting harder to keep more ST holders and by not being more imaginative and radical.

Gates matter for loads of reasons - not just immediate cash. It's about the stature and expectations of the club as well, how we are thought of by media, prospective signings etc.

Someone said we'd had loads of offers this season. Well I must still be on the club's database and I have had nothing except a call from Npower using an unattractive 6 for 5 games offer to try to get me to switch my energy supplier.

I would have gone to a £10 game by now if we'd had one. We had and still have 5,000 names and addresses on a database of people who went to pretty much every match last season.

The marketing dept should be busting a gut every day to come up with ideas and promotions to get some of them back. The efforts so far have been pathetic.

United worked hard to get gates up and realise some of our potential and McCabe seems so disinterested now that he seems content to sit back and watch it all slip away. I always thought he was more of a fighter than he is turning out to be.

Of the Blades I know who still have a ST - I'd say about a third of them are saying this will be their last season.

 

[super_pig]

>he trouble is, if the team are winning, people always seem to find the money
i don't think it is just to do with the money... it has as much to do with the style and atmosphere.. teams playing well tend to be more watchable don't they? the craic (as the irish would say)..it's a tribal thing and it takes people to be quite pissed off to opt out of the tribe.. people can't be arsed to go because they come home miserable.. it's more fun plodding round medders with the missus these days.. football is an entertainment industry.. hello

 

[Micalijo]

I was a ST holder for nearly 30 years till this season, still a shareholder and blades revival member.

Part of the problem is that the majority of lost fans are ST holders and many of them had STs for at least a few years and some like me for many more - we aint the platsics people like to think we are.

Price then becomes a bigger factor cos we just aren't used to paying per match. For 30 years I have sort of forgotten what it costs me to watch United. Now I have a decision to make before every game - shall I pay £25 or whatever for what is likely to be some awful match involving some outrageously paid players who could not care about the fans or the club.

United cocked up big style by not fighting harder to keep more ST holders and by not being more imaginative and radical.

Gates matter for loads of reasons - not just immediate cash. It's about the stature and expectations of the club as well, how we are thought of by media, prospective signings etc.

Someone said we'd had loads of offers this season. Well I must still be on the club's database and I have had nothing except a call from Npower using an unattractive 6 for 5 games offer to try to get me to switch my energy supplier.

I would have gone to a £10 game by now if we'd had one. We had and still have 5,000 names and addresses on a database of people who went to pretty much every match last season.

The marketing dept should be busting a gut every day to come up with ideas and promotions to get some of them back. The efforts so far have been pathetic.

United worked hard to get gates up and realise some of our potential and McCabe seems so disinterested now that he seems content to sit back and watch it all slip away. I always thought he was more of a fighter than he is turning out to be.

Of the Blades I know who still have a ST - I'd say about a third of them are saying this will be their last season.

I think we've had this debate before Tuns but I don't get this choice you made to not buy a season ticket followed by your comments that you would come if it was a tenner. Life doesn't work like that imo. I totally agree about the size of a crowd being important but I think once you decide not to get a season ticket that is pretty much that in terms of watching football week in week out. I personally don't think we should go overboard with the cheap tickets, because (quite understandably) alot of people don't want to go irrespective of price - you being an exception in my opinion. Rightly or wrongly it costs £25 to pay on the day. I don't see that as an alienation of ex-fans of the club and I don;t see why they should fall over them sens to allow you to pay £10 most weeks.

Also, McCabe is not really watching it all slip away in a sense that he is getting his wedge back via the Tevez cash. It's slipping away from us the fans yes but not from McCabe.

 

[frechyblade]

We had a poll over the summer asking those that didn't renew why Poll Result
Style of play and Mr Blackwell where the overwhelming reasons given. So in answer to an earlier comment not getting rid of Mr Blackwell over the summer rather than the cost was the big mistake, if keeping the season ticket holders is any measure.

UTB

 

[bricktop]

In the last 4 years we have dropped from 30,000 a match to 20,000 a match, thats already 10,000 supporters lost in 4 years.

I think next season it will be down to the 15-16,000 mark once again.

Why?

The football has been getting progressively worse, the quality of players are getting steadily worse, and at the moment we have the look of a side who will struggle against relegation this season.

 

[Linz]

I agree with a load of comments in this thread. I'm a season ticket holder, but my away attendance has dropped dramatically this season and I'm honestly not really missing it. United's prices do compare favourably to the rest of the league when you consider £28 for an away match at Donny which is on the BBC!

That said, what would you do to change things? And this is a genuine question because ticketing and the like are precisely things BIFF want to hear about. A full BDTBL benefits everyone.

 

[Grecian2000]

One price for all games. Drop the A,B and C bollocks.

Kop £18, Sides £25, BLUT £20 (away support £20).
Make one are (BLUT?) a "walk up and pay on the day" area. 1st come, first served.
Season Ticket £xxx, Half Season Ticket (1st 11 games, ST Price / 23 * 11 + £20), Half Season Ticket (last 12 games, STPrice / 23 * 12 + £10 or £25 depending on how we've been 1st half)
Week-end only STicket (i.e. all games scheduled at BL for Week-ends)
Midweek only STicket (i.e. all mid-week games)

Make it affordable and not prohibitive.

 

[Kopped]

I think a major step backwards by all football clubs with regards to the pricing of tickets is how to bring the fans back. However, the capping of Wages and transfer fee's with stricter rules involving Agents should also be implemented. Players should have to honour contracts regardless of age, stature or ability. Clubs should also honour players contracts and Managers should only be allowed to be sacked in May/June or December, regardless of results or performances. Until an over-haul of the entire system and the Money men are removed from controlling Leagues like the Premiership, will this get better.

Clubs continually run at a loss with Administration being the easy option. Once the League gets a grip and throw out teams that do this the better football will be and it will force Parasites like Sven Goran Eriksson and Harry Redknapp out of the game.

Back to the OP. Football is out pricing itself due to Player wage demands. The players should have to learn that, if there's no fans to watch you, you don't get paid!

 

[Linz]

Kop £18, Sides £25, BLUT £20 (away support £20)

Away support would have to be same as Kop... there's a rule that away fans can't be charged more than home fans for the same view.

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Week-end only STicket (i.e. all games scheduled at BL for Week-ends)
Midweek only STicket (i.e. all mid-week games)

I know other clubs do these, but wouldn't cup games and postponements interfere with the value of these?

 

[Foxy]

What a shame ...... the viscous circle is well and truly engaged.... McWobblegob has spouted bollox far too often......stripped the assets and deserves what he gets.
The two hat has ripped the heart out of the club I love.

Just to play devils advocate, which assets has he stripped to rip the heart out?

 

[Eckingtonian]

Playing decent attacking football that gets fans on the edge of their seats would be a start.Stop selling any decent player that comes to us or is produced by the academy is another option.If the product is value for money people will pay,and cut their cloth in other areas.Fans aren't thick.The end is nigh.