New regulator

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

See Sheffsteel post above regarding how few clubs enter admin these days, since they’ve changed the rules.

It’s not that regular a shitshow.

I've always been conflicted by Administration. I know my "ideas" would be chaotic. FFP and/or PSR will continue to be difficult to implement.

So, I sometimes shout my mouth off as follows...

Ditch FFP. Fucking spend what you want, on any old shit. But, let's have jeopardy. If you can't pay your bills, if you go into administration, you're done. No. The new club can't just carry on with ten points less. Here's the application form for the Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior. Try your luck there...

 

[Carlton Blade]

I've always been conflicted by Administration. I know my "ideas" would be chaotic. FFP and/or PSR will continue to be difficult to implement.

So, I sometimes shout my mouth off as follows...

Ditch FFP. Fucking spend what you want, on any old shit. But, let's have jeopardy. If you can't pay your bills, if you go into administration, you're done. No. The new club can't just carry on with ten points less. Here's the application form for the Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior. Try your luck there...

That's extreme.

The institutions that fans care about aren't the ones failing (often by choice, especially with non-football bills) to pay the bills, the owners are.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

That's extreme.

The institutions that fans care about aren't the ones failing (often by choice, especially with non-football bills) to pay the bills, the owners are.

Of course. Conflicted as I say. But, while "that" club/owner was spending money it didn't have and getting promoted/avoiding relegation. This other club/owner was paying it's bills and got relegated.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Of course. Conflicted as I say. But, while "that" club/owner was spending money it didn't have and getting promoted/avoiding relegation. This other club/owner was paying it's bills and got relegated.

Of course. I think my view on this is led by the fact I'm less concerned with the end outcome odlf my teams seasons and more with enjoying each game.

I do think there either has to be tight regulation or none though. This current halfway house isn't sustainable, at least as a route to maintaining this many professional clubs

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Of course. I think my view on this is led by the fact I'm less concerned with the end outcome odlf my teams seasons and more with enjoying each game.

I do think there either has to be tight regulation or none though. This current halfway house isn't sustainable, at least as a route to maintaining this many professional clubs

On spending, I lean towards no regulation. You've got teams losing points for spending too much. And others losing points for not having enough to pay their bills.

It's a right old dilemma. But I agree the current attempt is unsustainable.

 

[Carlton Blade]

On spending, I lean towards no regulation. You've got teams losing points for spending too much. And others losing points for not having enough to pay their bills.

It's a right old dilemma. But I agree the current attempt is unsustainable.

I think the cat is out of the bag in "getting our game back" etc. But there is so much low hanging fruit that could be regulated- size of youth squads, number of loans a player is allowed before they must be listed in the 25 or sold/released, loan fees, using multiple club systems to bump up player value and create profit, self sponsorship

 

[Silent Blade]

Am I right that the government thinks that the regulator should replace the FA? The FA is under the FIFA umbrella so if the FA is replaced, will that mean the FIFA will see this as interference from the government? Tories are unlikely to win the next General Election so the bill might be shelved after all?

 

[BladeinExile89]

There is nothing wrong with FFP IMO

Stops clubs from going out of business and from buying the league

It also encourages club growth as clubs need to grow to spend the money eg build a new stadium/training ground like Spurs/Everton/city

The only ones who have seem to have a problem are the ones who are crying because they can't buy success

 

[Sheffsteel]

I've always been conflicted by Administration. I know my "ideas" would be chaotic. FFP and/or PSR will continue to be difficult to implement.

So, I sometimes shout my mouth off as follows...

Ditch FFP. Fucking spend what you want, on any old shit. But, let's have jeopardy. If you can't pay your bills, if you go into administration, you're done. No. The new club can't just carry on with ten points less. Here's the application form for the Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior. Try your luck there...

There's quite alot of contradictory messaging on this subject.

The question is what is the main intention of a regulator? Is it

1: To make the leagues fairer and more even, so promoted clubs have a decent chance of staying up or is it
2: about safeguarding clubs against over ambitions or irresponsible owners so they don't build up massive debt and go into admin or go bust?

I heard the news today and the representative of the regulator stating the reasons for their existence is reason 2

This is a little confusing because thanks to FFP controls, hardly any clubs have gone into admin the last 11 years.
So if that is there intention then surely they need to tighten up FFP rules even more.
A few years ago Steve Gibson (Middlesboro Chairman) at the annual Chairmans meeting suggested an independent EFL acountant, so every clubs finances could be closed monitored on a regular basis. This would control overspending and would work, but the Chairman voted against it, so it failed.

Think the real issue for most fans is they want INVESTMENT so they can be promoted and compete in the PL
but they seem to think of this as free money and don't seem to realise that investment is debt.

The bottom line is investment is great for the 3 promoted clubs but potentially a disaster for the clubs not promoted.
Lets not forget that only 3 clubs can win the big prizes, so if you have 10 brilliant competent very ambitious owners in a league then 7 of them will be deemed as total failures and incompetent by their fans.

The Forest owner has gambled and massively overspent, if Forest stay up again, they could become a PL regular, so the Forest fans will say
they have a great owner. If Forest are relegated this season then they will be in a financial mess, their fans will then plead for sympathy telling
everyone they have a terrible owner and his type should be banned from football.

Chansiri was ambitiös at SWFC and instantly invested and spent big, Wednesday fans loved it.
He ignored FFP because it only becomes an issue after a rolling 3 years, so as long as they were promoted within 2 years he'd be fine.
He gambled and failed, so they went into debt, then he continued investing and failing building up more debt.
End result SWFC are now drifting along not owning their ground or training ground and now owe Chansiri about £140 million.

Wednesday fans see the current FFP rules as a hindrance but in a way it's protecting then from going into admin or going bust.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Am I right that the government thinks that the regulator should replace the FA? The FA is under the FIFA umbrella so if the FA is replaced, will that mean the FIFA will see this as interference from the government? Tories are unlikely to win the next General Election so the bill might be shelved after all?

No
The regulator will not replace the FA
Other countries, for eg Germany, have independent regulators
Independent regulators are not seen as government interference by FIFA
The Bill might enjoy cross party support

 

[Silent Blade]

No
The regulator will not replace the FA
Other countries, for eg Germany, have independent regulators
Independent regulators are not seen as government interference by FIFA
The Bill might enjoy cross party support

I dont think the FA or the PL would want to work with the independent regulator but the EFL would welcome the independent regulator. Agree?

 

[Snowflake]

It would probably be phased out rather than just stopped. Would actually make relegated clubs even more financially in the doo doo.

I honestly think the best things would be for the top 6 clubs to walk out and form their own shitty league along with the likes of PSG, Milan etc. the. Bar them from any domestic competitions.

It's what they want. Just let them do it.
Then we can reform the league structure.

I can work out the top three, but who would be the next three ?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I dont think the FA or the PL would want to work with the independent regulator but the EFL would welcome the independent regulator. Agree?

Difficult call.
The FA have, today, "welcomed the commitment to strengthen independent financial regulation in football."

and to

"continue working with the Government and other stakeholders as the Bill goes through the parliamentary process."

I tend to view things simply.

If the Government say - we're doing this thing that is to protect clubs and their fans.

It is a tough call for the PL, FA, EFL to say - we're having none of that. The optics are very poor if they say that.

What they do, rather than say, is another matter

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Am I right that the government thinks that the regulator should replace the FA? The FA is under the FIFA umbrella so if the FA is replaced, will that mean the FIFA will see this as interference from the government? Tories are unlikely to win the next General Election so the bill might be shelved after all?

The Shadow Secretary of State for Culture Media & Sport, Thangam Debbonaire Labour Member for Bristol West, has welcomed the Football Governance Bill. A bit of - it's taken too long - point scoring. And, some - it needs to be stronger - posturing.

But, absolutely nothing to suggest the Labour Party are against regulation and a regulator.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Right. It's time for Uncle Phil to speak.

We have become so used to vested interests being protected in football.
We have become so used to the gravy train.
We have become so used to snouts in troughs.
We have become so used to the Big Six.
We have become so used to neo liberal money talking
We have become so used to political infighting
We have become so used to failure

That we/some of us can't envisage it any other way. I/we get that. The Football Governance Bill will not solve issues with football overnight. Hell, not in my lifetime. But, look beyond knee jerks.

There's a process developing that stops the simple shit madness. Like selling stadiums to yourself. Like increasing ticket prices. Like restricting away tickets. Like hoovering up young players. Like changing your name to Hull Tigers. Low hanging fruit simple shit madness.

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

Super League for me
Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Spurs.

Fuck off Villa and Newcastle.
UTB

 

[CornwallBlade]

My instinct tells me this is potentially a good thing that could mean nothing in reality. The fact that this Government has implemented it means I'm sceptical that it'll have any meaningful power. However, in principle, if the regulator actually have the ability to shape things, then it can only be a good step forward.

I give you……Government offices, OFWAT and the Environment Agency. “Sorry we’re the water companies and we’ve accidentally been pumping shit into the waterways and sea - oh you want us to stop? Well only if we can continue to pay massive dividends and then put up the bills of the punters to pay for it. Oh, and if we go bust the taxpayers will have to bail us out”

 

[CornwallBlade]

What's your best example of a regulated industry where many businesses are going bust?

Err, banking, and we’re still paying for bailing the fuckers out! Energy, water, rail, buses, holiday companies - do you want any more?

 

[CornwallBlade]

I've always been conflicted by Administration. I know my "ideas" would be chaotic. FFP and/or PSR will continue to be difficult to implement.

So, I sometimes shout my mouth off as follows...

Ditch FFP. Fucking spend what you want, on any old shit. But, let's have jeopardy. If you can't pay your bills, if you go into administration, you're done. No. The new club can't just carry on with ten points less. Here's the application form for the Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior. Try your luck there...

This, In the world of free markets, let them blow whatever they want. The game will polarise and those with massive costs will have to be fed. The only way that will happen is tv and streaming but how long will there be a commercially sustainable appetite for it if its a league of 6? Meanwhile, the rest of us can enjoy a competitive league and a game still connected to fans. Sure, players might only earn £10-25k per week but I guess they could muddle through on that.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Are they going to name the new regulatory body ‘Chocolate Fireguard’? I imagine it will have similar levels of effectiveness.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I give you……Government offices, OFWAT and the Environment Agency. “Sorry we’re the water companies and we’ve accidentally been pumping shit into the waterways and sea - oh you want us to stop? Well only if we can continue to pay massive dividends and then put up the bills of the punters to pay for it. Oh, and if we go bust the taxpayers will have to bail us out”

Completely agree, but I've never understood people using shit regulators as an argument against regulation in general.

Though it's not talked about nearly as much (for obvious reasons), regulations prevent our nation from being far worse than it already is. Which is why every other nation uses them extensively as well.

We allow corporations to bribe regulators and government officials and then complain about the fact that some of our regulations are redundant. We vote for the cunts.

In the last few days, a bloke got voted in as leader of Welsh Labour, a bloke who's taken hundreds of thousands of pounds from a company that routinely break regulations. He has then stood up in parliament to defend them and ask that they not be taken to court. Madness.

 

[Bladeloyal]

If it's ofgem expect a safe standing charge

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

If it's ofgem expect a safe standing charge

Fuck sake...
Is anyone giving you any help with these?

 

[loyalblade95]

There is nothing wrong with FFP IMO

Stops clubs from going out of business and from buying the league

It also encourages club growth as clubs need to grow to spend the money eg build a new stadium/training ground like Spurs/Everton/city

The only ones who have seem to have a problem are the ones who are crying because they can't buy success

I don't think there's anything wrong with FFP. But the rules and punishments do need a bit of a rethink, especially the punishments in regards to points deductions.

They need to do something where the points are deducted early in the season like Everton (especially if they are about your losses from the previous season) rather than later in the season like Forest.

 

[BladeinExile89]

I don't think there's anything wrong with FFP. But the rules and punishments do need a bit of a rethink, especially the punishments in regards to points deductions.

They need to do something where the points are deducted early in the season like Everton (especially if they are about your losses from the previous season) rather than later in the season like Forest.

I think they are changing the date for when they can deduct them

The whole point of why the rules for how many points you get deducted are deliberately vague is if they said it is 6 points for losing X then Chelsea could go and just spunk £300 million which would mke get them more points than losing 6 if they fail FFP

 

[Agreasychipbutty]

I think they are changing the date for when they can deduct them

The whole point of why the rules for how many points you get deducted are deliberately vague is if they said it is 6 points for losing X then Chelsea could go and just spunk £300 million which would mke get them more points than losing 6 if they fail FFP

I think this is a good idea in principle to stop teams tactically accepting the FFP punishment based on the gains, but at least some guideline or minimum punishment could prevent the farce of appealing, the punishment should be the punishment. Why does the guilty club get to present an argument after the decision has been made? Surely they should present all the evidence with any arguments or mitigating circumstances to the board and then the boards decision is final.

 

[ancientblade]

Super League for me
Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Spurs.

Fuck off Villa and Newcastle.
UTB

i dont think your far wide of the mark with that if a european super league and super league 2 doesnt get off the ground i can see a 12 team super league in england or maybe a british super league incorporating celtic and rangers with each team playing each other 4 times a season sky and tnt are only interested in games between the big wealthy clubs in this country anyway bigger audiences means bigger revenue from advertising

 

[Proper Blade]

The fact that parachute payments exist in the first place is the Premier League admitting that the system is broken. There is just no way your revenue should increase/decrease by £100m when you get promoted/relegated. It's insane. Parachute payments were their low-cost way of shutting the EFL up. But it unwittingly caused another rupture in the pyramid - between clubs who receive parachute payments and clubs who don't.

The fact that the PL couldn't agree a fairer distribution deal with the EFL means a regulator is the only option left. The PL is wrecking English football and to me this seems like the last throw of the dice to stop it from wreaking further havoc.

 

[Kev Gee]

Ever since the PL came into being, people have been saying that the financial bubble would burst.
But has it?
Will it ever?

There's loads of clubs being bought by Americans recently. The reason for this is that Many Americans feel that the PL is actually under estimating it's potential in revenue. And there's scope for huge global expansion. Even if the TV money has reached it's ceiling in the UK.

The danger of this of course is that PL owners will want to protect that investment from the nightmare of relegation.

 

[CornwallBlade]

Completely agree, but I've never understood people using shit regulators as an argument against regulation in general.

Though it's not talked about nearly as much (for obvious reasons), regulations prevent our nation from being far worse than it already is. Which is why every other nation uses them extensively as well.

We allow corporations to bribe regulators and government officials and then complain about the fact that some of our regulations are redundant. We vote for the cunts.

In the last few days, a bloke got voted in as leader of Welsh Labour, a bloke who's taken hundreds of thousands of pounds from a company that routinely break regulations. He has then stood up in parliament to defend them and ask that they not be taken to court. Madness.

Absolutely right, you can have as many regulators as you like but if a) they don’t enforce and b) there is no political will to support them, its a waste of time. My solution? Divorce regulation from government offices, ring fence their funding and let them do what is right. Bank of England stylie