New Manager ?

[ATL Recs]

Wilder isn't here because he's a blade he's here because he's a great manager and being a blade is a fantastic bonus. I don't understand how people see 92(-2) points on the board and think he's a dinosaur who's past it.

By my reckoning we've had one dreadful season with him leading the way as manager but even that has the huge COVID asterisk next to it, and then last year where he rejoins a sinking ship and I would put minimal blame on him for our terrible record.

The rest have either been fantastic or at minimum above expectations. I honestly don't know what more people want from him.

I don't understand why managers like Dyche and Wilder are disrespected when they've outperformed mangers like Potter and Frank

Covid is a cheap pathetic excuse we’d peaked before Covid performances were dropping off

 

[Gavlar]

But thats the point. He’s conditioned to defending a lead and can’t seem to get a squad fit enough to play with intensity for 90 minutes. That suggests his whole approach is to get ahead, sub off the blowers and defend on the edge of our box - its shite and, tactically, proven to be a disaster.

We missed glorious chances to make it 2 and 3 nil with brooks and Moore in the 2nd half. This narrative that we always defend a lead on our own box is bollocks. No team will dominate a game for 90 mins.

 

[FTPE]

But thats the point. He’s conditioned to defending a lead and can’t seem to get a squad fit enough to play with intensity for 90 minutes. That suggests his whole approach is to get ahead, sub off the blowers and defend on the edge of our box - its shite and, tactically, proven to be a disaster.

He brings on O'hare, Brooks, Cannon. It's not like he brings on 3 CB's. This defending a lead thing seems to be getting misconstrued.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Genuine questions for you, and all they require is a yes or no answer.

1) Would 20 of the 23 Championship teams prefer to have performed as they did under their own manager last season, or as we did under Wilder?

2) Do any of the other managers in the Championship have a record of promotions better than Wilder's?

3) Do teams that regularly change their manager generally perform better than teams that don't?

1. Different clubs are at different stages of their development and have different expectations. A lot of clubs (Coventry, Portsmouth, Bristol City, Oxford) will consider that they are progressing well as they are and certainly wouldn’t be clamouring for Wilder. Add Birmingham & Wrexham to that list for next season. Obviously, neither Boro nor Watford would touch him with a bargepole.
2. Not yet, but his last promotion was 6 years ago now. He’s only ever had one to the EPL.
3. It varies. But Sunderland have maintained a good trajectory with it in recent years.

 

[Gin&Juice]

I think..

Get a designer manager in like Daniel Ancelotti, buy expensive, but lightweight youngsters who can’t do Wrexham on a Tuesday night. Finish in 12th place. Sack and sell them all, strip back and reappoint Wilder and get the gritty gang back together.

It will be a fun 12 months. The football hipsters will still be salivating at our penetration levels in the fifth quadrant whilst the 5th goal goes in at St Andrews. The old boys will be wanting us to get it forrrrrard more. It would be a dream season for me personally.

 

[Dkc]

He’s only ever had one to the EPL.

To get promoted to the EPL you need to be managing in the Championship. Wilder's only had three seasons managing in the Championship with us. First season he finished 10th. Second season 2nd. Third season 3rd with a points haul that would normally get automatic.

 

[Wizard]

2 Genuine questions for you and all they require are a Yes or No answer. Don't need to go into detail. Just answer Yes or No.

1. Were you happy with the way we played for the vast majority of last season?
2. Do you think the January transfer window was a success?

Also I'd love to see your reasoning behind claiming Wilder has outperformed Potter and Frank?

Thomas Frank
Brentford 18/19-24/25

• Brentford have had 4 years on the championship before Frank takes over finishing 5th, 9th, 10th, 9th. A solid foundation to build on.
• Frank finishes 3rd twice with 81 and 87 points to get promoted.
• Premier league points tallies are then 46, 59, 39, 56. Finishing 13th, 9th, 16th, 10th.

Graham Potter
Swansea 18/19
• Takes over a Swansea side who've just been relegated. They finish 10th on 65 points, nothing special. (Swansea's following seasons are 70, 80, 61, 66, 57, 61 finishing 6th, 4th, 15th, 10th, 14th, 11th)
Brighton 19/20 - 21/22
• Take over a Brighton side who've finished 15th and 17th, again a solid foundation to build from
• Finishes 15th, 16th, 9th with 41, 41, 51 points
• Leaves with Brighton 4th on 13 from 6
Chelsea 22/23
• Lasted Sep-Apr, took them from 6th to 11th
West Ham 24/25
• Took over an underperforming West Ham side, got 5 wins in 19 to finish 14th on 43 points

Sean Dyche
Burnley 12/13-20/21
• Champ: 11th, 61
• Champ: 2nd, 93
• Prem: 19th, 33
• Champ: 1st, 93
• Prem: 16th, 40
• Prem: 7th, 54
• Prem: 15th, 40
• Prem: 10th, 54
• Prem: 17th, 39
• Prem: Sacked, 4 points from safety with 8 to go
Everton 22/23-24/25
• Takes over with Everton 19th on 15 from 20. Finishes 17th on 36.
• 15th, 50(-10) - would've been 10th without the deduction
• Sacked with Everton 16th on 17 after 19

Chris Wilder
We know his career well so I'll just quickly list the Utd seasons
• Takes over a side that has been in league one for 5 years and just finished 11th
• 16/17: 1st, 100 points & promotion
• 17:18: 10th, 69 points (Derailed by Coutts injury, higher than Potter's Swansea)
• 18/19: 2nd, 89 points
• 19/20: 9th, 54 points (were 7th on 43 from 28 games before COVID)
• 20/21: Sacked in Feb with Utd 20th on 14 from 28,
• 23/24: Comes in with us 20th on 5 from 14, finish the season 20th with on 16 from 38)
• 24/25: 3rd, 92(-2) points, lose playoff final.

1. Dyche & Wilder have a better Championship record than either.
2. Dyche has the highest premier league finish (7th, which Wilder was matching before COVID).
3. All of them have top 10 premier league seasons with 50+ points tallies.
4. Frank & Potter took over smarter, better run clubs in stable positions.Whereas we had owners who couldn't compete at the top tier.
5. Frank, Potter & Dyche all have seasons with low survival points tallies 36-41 points.

Personally I would have Dyche, Wilder and Frank in a group together with Potter a tier below. I understand why Frank is more attractive to top sides because he's played a more offensive style of football but that doesn't make him a better manager for a club at our level.

 

[skegblade]

We are damned if we do by some
Damned if we dont by others
My view we wont alter the style,he cant change .
Players in and out will be like for like players
We are easily read in the bigger games, apart from the semis and coventry at home ,not really been dominant at home or away
Having said that, hard to sack with 92 points,wwhether some were earned scrapplly is irrelevent

 

[Tom Bott]

We are damned if we do by some
Damned if we dont by others
My view we wont alter the style,he cant change .
Players in and out will be like for like players
We are easily read in the bigger games, apart from the semis and coventry at home ,not really been dominant at home or away
Having said that, hard to sack with 92 points,wwhether some were earned scrapplly is irrelevent

The recent FA cup final is a good analogy.
One team played with attacking possession for around 80 minutes.
One team hardly ventured into the Man City half.

Which team won the cup.

Would the fans moping about our wins not being exciting enough, forgo winning the FA cup in a similar fashion?

Yes, but, no, but.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

The recent FA cup final is a good analogy.
One team played with attacking possession for around 80 minutes.
One team hardly ventured into the Man City half.

Which team won the cup.

Would the fans moping about our wins not being exciting enough, forgo winning the FA cup in a similar fashion?

Yes, but, no, but.

I dont think that is a good analogy though.

Crystal Palace knew they were the inferior group of players and HAD to play a certain way to win that game, whilst also relying on non-controllables.

In the Championship, we know we have a superior squad to most.

I've said elsewhere that I don't know how I really feel about a change in manager.

There's very good arguments for and against.

 

[just united]

Please sub share and like trying to grow the channel for blades by blades have your opinion heard and not be judged

 

[Tom Bott]

There's very good arguments for and against.

Even had we been promoted.

New managers can improve a club, or make it worse.

I look back over the last 50/60 years, look at the number of new managers.
Look at the number of managers who have improved the club.

It's a very small percentage.

 

[steve26272]

,wwhether some were earned scrapplly is irrelevent

tricky one that

Most on here don’t want Dyche even tho he’d probably get us up and have a better go of keeping us there, because of his tactics - which ironically isn’t dissimilar to what we’ve been doing!

It should be entertaining, most of the games we’ve won have been shit to watch,

 

[Large Mendonca]

Having had time to think about this, I reckon keep Wilder as the better chance to get promoted. Give him a nice retirement/achievement package for doing so, and go with another manager for the Prem. Wilder leaving us on a high might appeal to him?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Even had we been promoted.

New managers can improve a club, or make it worse.

I look back over the last 50/60 years, look at the number of new managers.
Look at the number of managers who have improved the club.

It's a very small percentage.

Define “improve the club”.

 

[Pintor75]

Having had time to think about this, I reckon keep Wilder as the better chance to get promoted. Give him a nice retirement/achievement package for doing so, and go with another manager for the Prem. Wilder leaving us on a high might appeal to him?

Better pay him off now and get new manager and coaches in to build for next season and beyond

 

[McGrath]

All this talk about hiring a new manager and people getting a little bit giddy about it. It's triggering horrible recollections of United's many falls from grace over the last 50 odd years.

I feel like we've seen this story before.

If a change happens then fingers crossed I am wrong, but I had the same feelings about the play offs too

 

[Danetheblade]

Better pay him off now and get new manager and coaches in to build for next season and beyond

This. I'd rather have a new manager in now, build a tactic and style that the players are comfortable with where there's less chance of punishment if they have a lapse. The premier league is relentless, and mistakes are often punished.

 

[Large Mendonca]

Better pay him off now and get new manager and coaches in to build for next season and beyond

Well yeah, that's the other option, and possibly the riskier? We know Wilder can get us up, and really should have done again 2 weeks ago.

I think once there (Prem), he's not the answer, and where your suggestion would then come into it's own.

 

[Blade56]

But times change, football has changed. We as a club must change. CW has to change and accept change. I’m not sure he’s capable of doing that.

My view is that Wilder 2.0 deserves a chance this coming season. If he buckles down, learns from his mistakes, he can be a good coach and prove his adaptability to the new ownership.

It’s a question of gambling on Wilders way or a new way to get promotion and stay in the PL.

Do we gamble with Wilder or gamble with a paradigm shift in the clubs history. History says the progressive way wins eventually over the traditional historic culture it’s replacing. The Ludites revolution can be compared to the transformation of high street shops and shopping online.

If he’s stays it will be about his battles, successes and or failures etc.not the clubs best interests. Be aware, it may take more than 1 season to make us fit for purpose.

For me the gamble is worth taking now while we have a year of guaranteed PL money left. It’s not worth the gamble to give him another chance and stand still.

 

[Tom Bott]

Define “improve the club”.

Move forward.

Definition of move forward.

Several seasons in the PL, rather than yo-yo.

That's based on other peoples desires, I go and judge each game as entertainment.

 

[skegblade]

The recent FA cup final is a good analogy.
One team played with attacking possession for around 80 minutes.
One team hardly ventured into the Man City half.

Which team won the cup.

Would the fans moping about our wins not being exciting enough, forgo winning the FA cup in a similar fashion?

Yes, but, no, but.

Had to lsugh when i read that ,attacked for 80 mins ,i got man city in the sweep at our local # 400.00 ,if theyd won it was 600.. #missed pen goal disallowed

 

[Frank the tank]

Club Statement: Michael Carrick

A statement from the club...

www.mfc.co.uk

Took Chris Wilder's Boro from 22nd to 4th, just saying...

They weren't 4th when he got the sack

 

[Tom Bott]

How have Watford and Middlesbrough 'kicked on' with constantly changing managers?

 

[Tom Bott]

Sunderland have had 6 managers since 2020.

Simple this lets change managers merry go round.

 

[Tom Bott]

Watford are on their 10'th manager since 2020.

 

[Th!stledo]

I dont think that is a good analogy though.

Crystal Palace knew they were the inferior group of players and HAD to play a certain way to win that game, whilst also relying on non-controllables.

In the Championship, we know we have a superior squad to most.

I've said elsewhere that I don't know how I really feel about a change in manager.

There's very good arguments for and against.

Installing a new manager is like lighting a firecracker. It may go off with a big bang or fizzle out like a dud.

For me, last season wasn't about playing dull football.
It was more walking out of the ground feeling we'd scraped a (lucky)win by the skin of our teeth.
Wilder said that the team were a team of winners and had just got the knack of getting the job done and winning.
Unfortunately this didn't prove to be the case in key games.
Maybe we just got found out by teams like Hull City, Millwall, Oxford, Plymouth and of course Sunderland.
If we repeat the same style and performances next season we may not be lucky enough to get the same results.

Like most football managers, Wilder is a big bullshitter. That is fine and part and parcel of the job.
The problem is, he used to be believable before and backed it up with some convincing successes
But recently he's gone stale and changes the bullshit to suit the results and comes across more as a whinger.

I feel we do need changes and if Wilder stays, he needs to refresh his approach and possibly also refresh his backroom staff.
UTB !!!

 

[adiosmiamigo]

I dont think that is a good analogy though.

Crystal Palace knew they were the inferior group of players and HAD to play a certain way to win that game, whilst also relying on non-controllables.

In the Championship, we know we have a superior squad to most.

I've said elsewhere that I don't know how I really feel about a change in manager.

There's very good arguments for and against.

Superior squad?We don't have players with pace,no subs to bring on who can win games,Leeds for example but it's all about opinions.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Superior squad?We don't have players with pace,no subs to bring on who can win games,Leeds for example but it's all about opinions.

'To most'

 

[NerdyBlade]

Ange?