Leeds....

[Kenilworth]

Leeds used to play in blue and yellow and only changed to all white to mimic Real Madrid.

Also, Bellend Road is in an arse part of the city with nothing around it in terms of pubs or places to eat. It's an afterthought stadium. Hard to get to (for home fans) who live in the city.

 

[skeletor]

It is that simple......And you're falling apart as usual. Fully expect you to lose against WBA and Bristol City.

Your club and its seat chuckers are known throughout the land and have been for some time as cheats. So yes you should be a bit fed up of it. But your lot never change, hence the 'dirty' and 'scum' songs.

Don't get to disheartened with falling apart, always next year. And when Bielsa goes, why not put Bowyer in charge? He pretty much represents everything your club is.

Oh and it's 'too tired to'. Don't they have schools in Leeds? Or do you just get a look at the exam papers the day before ?

Falling apart as usual? We've normally sunk to mid-table obscurity by this point so to be sitting in third, level on points with yourselves, and only two points off first is far from usual for us.

As you'll know we're level on points with yourselves and both of us have difficult games coming up. Anything can happen, especially in this league, so I wouldn't 'fully expect' anything. Just as I wouldn't fully expect any sort of result in your game with your 'massive' neighbours on Monday. Things can change very quickly.

Oh, and it's 'too disheartened'. Schools...Sheffield...blah blah blah

 

[Dkc]

Massive, intimidating club, biggest in Yorkshire and one of England's largest. Loud, passionate, some would say arrogant fans, who turn up at away games in numbers that surpass most PL clubs. Of course as a Sheffielder I want them to do badly, but I have nowt against the fans. Got to say though that their stadium is probably not as good as Hillsoro or BL

 

[Bladeloyal]

Massive, intimidating club, biggest in Yorkshire and one of England's largest. Loud, passionate, some would say arrogant fans, who turn up at away games in numbers that surpass most PL clubs. Of course as a Sheffielder I want them to do badly, but I have nowt against the fans. Got to say though that their stadium is probably not as good as Hillsoro or BL

Elland road bar the one good stand is a tip

 

[Maidenhead]

Leeds used to play in blue and yellow and only changed to all white to mimic Real Madrid.

Also, Bellend Road is in an arse part of the city with nothing around it in terms of pubs or places to eat. It's an afterthought stadium. Hard to get to (for home fans) who live in the city.

Excuse me, I walked home last season, got well pissed on the way and could have called in any number of curry houses for sustenance if I could have been bothered to go 50yds out of my way

 

[Maidenhead]

Leeds is a Rugby League city,it has no real tradition or affinity to the beautiful game.The rise of Leeds as a football force only emerged fairly recently during the Don Revie years,but more importantly,how can anyone take a club seriously when their players used to wear those bloody stupid 'pennant' style sock tie-ups in the 70's.

It certainly is a rugby league city.

Walk through the city any day and people wearing Rhinos gear will out number those wearing United gear by 10 to 1.

The Elland Road crowd commutes in from all around the world but only a fraction of it lives in Leeds.

It all goes back to the 1970's and a mix of glory hunters and wannabee hooligans looking for the best "firm"

Unfortunately the offspring of these retards continue to uphold the family tradition today but with a bit less hooliganism and a lot less glory.

 

[Dkc]

I think I mentioned before that I hated Leeds like any other Blade until I started knocking about with the "NYC Whites" - I still want them to lose now but don't mind their fans at all. Had some right laughs with them over the years, Incidentally the NYC Whites FB group still gets occasional enquiries from people who, shall we say, are a bit racist (though they aren't at all)

 

[Cjay]

I'm just intrigued as to why you've got that diving plank as your avatar? His claims of a potential broken back against Bolton that (thankfully) proved unfounded sparked a full scale handbags at six paces on the bench that led to Parkinson getting sent off. I just couldn't admire someone who plays the game like that (and I'm not sure he's that good anyway?). Perhaps I'm just a product of a bygone era.

Thanks for your civil contributions though. After reading your civilised posts I hope you don't lose by too many tonight.

Sorry forgot to reply.

Simple answer is in your post, he winds up the opposition, i love that.

But also ive always liked Ali, taken tons of stick from our fans since he has been here but never gives up and never stops, nobody runs more, nobody gives more, he is running the length of the pitch in the 90th minute then he is running all the way back.

I like players who give everything every game.

 

[Chali 2na]

Massive, intimidating club, biggest in Yorkshire and one of England's largest.

What's your criteria for "largest" clubs? And where do Leeds rank compared to the current top 6 in your opinion?

Sorry forgot to reply.

Wouldn't mind a response to post 144, should you find the time.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

What tickles me about the claims Leeds make about club size based on number of fans - there are 50,000 paying customers in Sheffield, and nearly half of them are paying a stupid amount to support their "team" ( a term I use very loosely you understand).

 

[Sheffsteel]

What tickles me about the claims Leeds make about club size based on number of fans - there are 50,000 paying customers in Sheffield, and nearly half of them are paying a stupid amount to support their "team" ( a term I use very loosely you understand).

Their diehard fan base isn’t that good when you consider the huge population within 20 miles of Leeds.
However Leeds (like Man Utd and Liverpool) do have this vast “glory hunter” fanbase, although the LU glory hunters are aging with many dying off. The longer they are out of the PL then their “glory hunter” fans dwindle and maybe go elsewhere.

There’s always stats quoted about the potential of Leeds United.
Stats like the Sky viewing figures for Leeds matches are generally double the amount of any other Championship club.
They tend to be one of the most spoke about clubs on other clubs forums, no other Championship club comes close.
A Leed fans once told me that they have more supporters club outside the UK that almost every PL club, only Man U and Liverpool have more. Don’t know if it’s true or made up but the Leeds fan was the old sensible type so I trust his knowledge.

The general view is that Leeds United in the PL would be big news nationally and internationally and in their first season back would probably have a 60 to 70K demand for most home matches, that’s far bigger than any other Championship club could muster.

 

[Chali 2na]

Stats like the Sky viewing figures for Leeds matches are generally double the amount of any other Championship club.

So Leeds get double the viewing figures of Aston Villa? I very much doubt that.

They tend to be one of the most spoke about clubs on other clubs forums, no other Championship club comes close.

Not sure what that counts for?

A Leed fans once told me that they have more supporters club outside the UK that almost every PL club, only Man U and Liverpool have more. Don’t know if it’s true or made up but the Leeds fan was the old sensible type so I trust his knowledge.

He's lying to you, as that's practically impossible to quantify.

It's also laughable, I bet they're barely in the top 10.

The general view is that Leeds United in the PL would be big news nationally and internationally and in their first season back would probably have a 60 to 70K demand for most home matches, that’s far bigger than any other Championship club could muster.

That has to be a joke? Where did you magic that figure up from?

 

[Gannon's perm]

Exactly nothing to do with burnout.

Its teams sitting back, staying narrow, limiting space in the middle and hitting us on the break.

Teams dont come out against us, teams that have tried to compete have got beat.

The article doesn't say, nothing to do with burnout. But states that other factors are also in play. Which is usually the case, as nothing is simply black and white.

Bielsa also doesn't stay long enough for his teams to tr

Falling apart as usual? We've normally sunk to mid-table obscurity by this point so to be sitting in third, level on points with yourselves, and only two points off first is far from usual for us.

As you'll know we're level on points with yourselves and both of us have difficult games coming up. Anything can happen, especially in this league, so I wouldn't 'fully expect' anything. Just as I wouldn't fully expect any sort of result in your game with your 'massive' neighbours on Monday. Things can change very quickly.

Oh, and it's 'too disheartened'. Schools...Sheffield...blah blah blah

Congratulations on spotting the typo. Did you really sign up for that? Or was it the falling apart bit that struck a nerve?

In the last 10 games you've picked up 13 points, hardly promotion form is it? In 2018 you had a goal difference of +22, in 2019 it is -2.

Oh and your 'blah, blah, blah' , could do with a full stop at the end. You were doing really well up till then too.

 

[Gannon's perm]

Oops, no idea where that mysterious first part came from. There's a ghost in my phone

 

[Cjay]

The article doesn't say, nothing to do with burnout. But states that other factors are also in play. Which is usually the case, as nothing is simply black and white.

Bielsa also doesn't stay long enough for his teams to tr

Congratulations on spotting the typo. Did you really sign up for that? Or was it the falling apart bit that struck a nerve?

In the last 10 games you've picked up 13 points, hardly promotion form is it? In 2018 you had a goal difference of +22, in 2019 it is -2.

Oh and your 'blah, blah, blah' , could do with a full stop at the end. You were doing really well up till then too.

It says that its not at all obvious which it isnt, i could go deeper into that if you wanted, i wrote about it on our forum a while ago somewhere. Our problem is much more down to teams all almost to a man setting up the same way regardless of where they are in the league, nobody apart from you has tried to compete possession and football wise, i think that was the only game where we had less of the ball and we still won, fortunate maybe but even so a wins a win.

 

[Gannon's perm]

It says that its not at all obvious which it isnt, i could go deeper into that if you wanted, i wrote about it on our forum a while ago somewhere. Our problem is much more down to teams all almost to a man setting up the same way regardless of where they are in the league, nobody apart from you has tried to compete possession and football wise, i think that was the only game where we had less of the ball and we still won, fortunate maybe but even so a wins a win.

Sorry Cjay that but wasn't supposed to be in there, but you make some interesting points. Leicester won the title through conceding possession stats and I take it you're saying teams set up against you in a similar way?
Could you post a link to what you wrote ? I'd be interested in giving it a read and your thoughts on it.

 

[blade too long]

never known why having a huge fan base in say Thailand counts for anything
brings no money into a club, 99.95 per cent will never attend a game
clubs only can count those who attend games , pay admission and buy from the club shop

For a one club city club they dont get massive gates
once wednesday fold we will get much bigger gates

 

[Cjay]

If any club is going to break into that top 4, let alone top 6, they better do it sharpish: the distance between them and the rest is growing.

1)Breaking into the top 4 used to be a case of waiting for one of Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd & Arsenal to slip up, now City and Tottenham are chasing the same prize, it's a lot harder.

2)And as for Spurs: they may have been a mid table team when you grew up, those days are gone. Not only are they based in London (which counts for a great deal in the world of football finance) but they are about to move into the new ground; once that happens they will pull away from the rest of the pack even further.



3)You seem to missing a major part of the equation in regards to Wolves: not only are they mega-rich but they have forged relationships with one of the world's most powerful agencies.

4)Plenty of clubs have rich owners, without direction it doesnt count for much. It also seems that Yorkshire is a less attractive destination for these kind of investments unfortunately for you and us.



5)Of course you can strive for more, and more isn't impossible. I'm just trying to say that it's highly improbable.

You'll strive for more like the other 86 clubs, you'll be closer to that goal than the majority but far enough away for it still to be an unrealistic ambition.

Again sorry, missed this.

1) I mean i dont think its all that different now, when we were competing it was just really Arsenal and Manchester United competing for the title, then a few other teams who may get close but a little group competing for the European places, us, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa and West Ham i think were up there then, Newcastle and Sunderland i think made an appearance 1 season i think, Spurs were no where near , think they were about 10th and below most seasons. Its still similar to how it was imo, the top 2 were pretty much the same each season then a little group gathered below them.

2) The London thing is a big pull i agree, although no guarantee moving into a new ground will do them much good, didnt do Arsenal much good, they i think are still paying it off now and have had comparatively little success since.

3) I havent forgotten Mendes but he can only help Wolves so much, and that relationship could go wrong at any time (something very dodgy going on there). Mendes has no loyalty to Wolves, they are a means to an end, if a better opportunity arises for his clients then they will leave Wolves at the drop of a hat.

4) It is and for players to apparently, i think it was Gary Neville who mentioned how the North wasn't as attractive to players and what not, probably right. We have direction now, its finance we lack, if there was a way of getting both then that'd be great. In the past there are quite a few instances of our owners screwing us over, Ken Bates is reported to have doubled the price when a very rich consortium approached him years ago, the Red Bull stuff was genuine but apparently MC scared them of to, our books were in such a mess. So allegedly we can attract the sort of investors you would hope for ( Radz has also said he has turned down a double your money offer) but it needs agreement on all sides, that has been our issue. You've got a member of the Saudi Royal Family as owner haven't you? Should be minted.

5) Highly improbably in the short term, but in the long term, i think its possible i really do, it would need a lot of things to be right, right owners, right managers, right players etc, but if someone can get that right then i have hope. But its a pipe dream as of now and years and years away at the very least.

 

[Cjay]

Sorry Cjay that but wasn't supposed to be in there, but you make some interesting points. Leicester won the title through conceding possession stats and I take it you're saying teams set up against you in a similar way?
Could you post a link to what you wrote ? I'd be interested in giving it a read and your thoughts on it.

I will have a look mate, i said it was on our forum, now i think it may have been on another teams forum, i'll have to look or do it again.

Teams do what they have to do i suppose, play to your strengths, but it bugs me no end when every week we have teams home and away setting up 11 men behind the ball.

Not just the lesser teams, its exactly what WBA did to us at there own ground, Stoke the same, Forest to, its frustrating.

Similar to Leicester but its extreme negativity, Leicester did it but more so against the bigger teams, we have our promotion rivals doing it at there own grounds, we had over 70% possession vs WBA and Boro away, never seen anything like it.

Its similar to how every Prem side sets up vs Manchester City ( we arent Man City i know that) but the approach we face is practically identical to them every week.

 

[PokerBlade]

I will have a look mate, i said it was on our forum, now i think it may have been on another teams forum, i'll have to look or do it again.

Teams do what they have to do i suppose, play to your strengths, but it bugs me no end when every week we have teams home and away setting up 11 men behind the ball.

Not just the lesser teams, its exactly what WBA did to us at there own ground, Stoke the same, Forest to, its frustrating.

Similar to Leicester but its extreme negativity, Leicester did it but more so against the bigger teams, we have our promotion rivals doing it at there own grounds, we had over 70% possession vs WBA and Boro away, never seen anything like it.

Its similar to how every Prem side sets up vs Manchester City ( we arent Man City i know that) but the approach we face is practically identical to them every week.

You have to be good enough to win regardless, but I'm with you when it comes to teams setting up for wars of attrition.

I'll look the other way when Barnet come to the Lane in the cup (bad example, they were more adventurous than some teams, but makes my point) and they know they're well outmatched in every department. Drives me crazy that QPR came to Bramall Lane for a Championship match up and they were warned twice for taking their time over throw-ins in the first twenty minutes of the game.

Aston Villa have only lost one more game than our teams and yet they sit 19 points behind us. I'm not expecting everyone to play into our hands, just be nice to see more teams go out and try to win games instead of cling to a point and maybe hope to nick one.

 

[Gannon's perm]

I will have a look mate, i said it was on our forum, now i think it may have been on another teams forum, i'll have to look or do it again.

Teams do what they have to do i suppose, play to your strengths, but it bugs me no end when every week we have teams home and away setting up 11 men behind the ball.

Not just the lesser teams, its exactly what WBA did to us at there own ground, Stoke the same, Forest to, its frustrating.

Similar to Leicester but its extreme negativity, Leicester did it but more so against the bigger teams, we have our promotion rivals doing it at there own grounds, we had over 70% possession vs WBA and Boro away, never seen anything like it.

Its similar to how every Prem side sets up vs Manchester City ( we arent Man City i know that) but the approach we face is practically identical to them every week.

Didn't see the WBA game, but did see the stats and noticed that WBA had significantly less possession.
That way of playing is really annoying, I'll grant you that. We've had a few teams do that to us too. Wednesday practically had a 730 formation when they played at the Lane. It is really difficult to break teams down when they sit in their own half all the time. Simply no space to play.

 

[Cjay]

Gannon's perm

Ive stolen this, whatever i did could be on any number of forums and it was no where near as in depth so. What i will add is at Marseille they won there final 4 games and that Bilbao side in his first season played over 60 games including European football and all the travelling that comes with it while using a squad the same size as yours.


"It has become received wisdom that Bielsa teams burnout and cannot sustain their form over the course of a long season. You would think that this would mean that his teams tend to win fewer games and accrue fewer points as the season goes on. I had a little look at his previous seasons in management to see if this was the case, going back to Velez Sarsfield in 97/98. The first thing to remark on is that there isn't a huge amount of data. In the last 20 years he has only completed 4 full seasons of club management. He didn't take a single game with Lazio in 2016, only had 14 with Lille in 2017 and only 6 with Espanyol in 1998 so they aren't really worthy of analysis in this respect. The rest of his time was spent in international management which obviously doesn't have the same regularity as club football.



I decided to split the seasons into four quarters to compare points tallies across the year. Taking it in chronological order:



Velez Sarsfield 97/98. (NB: the Argentine season in this era was played in two distinct parts with two champions. However, it was effectively a 38 game season with a long winter break between the end of December and start of February).

- Matches 1-9: W4 D3 L2 - 15 points

- Matches 10-19: W4 D5 L1 - 17 points

- Matches 20-28: W6 D2 L1 - 20 points

- Matches 29-38: W8 D2 L0 - 26 points



Athletic Bilbao 11/12

- Matches 1-9: W3 D3 L3 - 12 points

- Matches 10-19: W3 D5 L2 - 14 points

- Matches 20-28: W3 D2 L4 - 11 points

- Matches 29-38: W3 D3 L4 - 12 points



Athletic Bilbao 12/13

- Matches 1-9: W2 D2 L5 - 8 points

- Matches 10-19: W4 D1 L4 - 13 points

- Matches 20-28: W3 D2 L4 - 11 points

- Matches 29-38: W3 D4 L3 - 13 points



Marseille 14/15

- Matches 1-9: W7 D1 L1 - 22 points

- Matches 10-19: W6 D1 L3 - 19 points

- Matches 20-28: W3 D3 L3 - 12 points

- Matches 29-38: W5 D1 L4 - 16 points



So bearing in mind that I only looked at regular season league matches and haven't gone back beyond the 20 year mark (as I don't think this popular reputation for burnout comes from the distant past in central and South America) we can see that the points totals are fairly evenly spread across the four quarters. At Velez the league form got stronger as things went on, whereas at Bilbao there is pretty much a consistency between all sectors. At Marseille the team got off to an absolute flyer and were top for a while before slipping down the table but the dip over time wasn't especially dramatic (they finished 4th) and that kind of blinding start followed by a tail off wasn't characteristic of his Bilbao team.



If anyone is interested, I also found this analysis of statistics relating to the Marseille pressing tactics: https://saturdaysoncouch.wordpress.com/2015/04/08/taking-a-look-at-this-years-bielsa-burnout/. The takeaway point is that measured by possession turnovers in the attacking third there isn't anything particularly remarkable about the effectiveness of the press. Moreover, although the press did drop deeper as the game went on the ability to score goals late in a game appeared undiminished.



It seems to me that the reputation for burnout comes from (a) the blistering start that Marseille made, which realistically they were never going to maintain and (b) the defeats that Bilbao suffered in the Europa League and Copa Del Rey finals. Suffering at the final hurdle is often put down to exhaustion but it isn't reflected in league performance as far as I can see.



At some point we will go through a sticky patch as does every team and it will undoubtedly be put down to burnout because that is the media narrative for Bielsa. We aren't going to maintain a 2.6 points-per-game average regardless of physical fitness. But there is no real reason to think that we are going to completely collapse either.

 

[Gannon's perm]

Looking at that, a pattern does seem to be the case for games 20-28 (roughly 3rd quarter of the season). Which does appear to be what you are going through at the moment.
Those final quarter stats are better though. If you do pick up, like those stats suggest, I hope it's not at the expense of us.

 

[Cjay]

You have to be good enough to win regardless, but I'm with you when it comes to teams setting up for wars of attrition.

I'll look the other way when Barnet come to the Lane in the cup (bad example, they were more adventurous than some teams, but makes my point) and they know they're well outmatched in every department. Drives me crazy that QPR came to Bramall Lane for a Championship match up and they were warned twice for taking their time over throw-ins in the first twenty minutes of the game.

Aston Villa have only lost one more game than our teams and yet they sit 19 points behind us. I'm not expecting everyone to play into our hands, just be nice to see more teams go out and try to win games instead of cling to a point and maybe hope to nick one.

Can understand why Barnet would do it to you, can kind of get why Wednesday did it away (although letting your opponent have 75% possession home or away is pushing it).

Interesting you.mention Villa, 66% possession we had vs them at Villa park, 66% !!!! In fact we havent dropped below 60% since we played you.

Agree with the throw in point, we get that, teams time wasting from the off, its bizarre.

I'd be fuming if we set up at Elland Road like some teams have against us at home.

At least you had a go and competed and pressed, that was a one off.

 

[Cjay]

Didn't see the WBA game, but did see the stats and noticed that WBA had significantly less possession.
That way of playing is really annoying, I'll grant you that. We've had a few teams do that to us too. Wednesday practically had a 730 formation when they played at the Lane. It is really difficult to break teams down when they sit in their own half all the time. Simply no space to play.

Exactly, its hard enough for the top teams to break that down, we havent got Messi or Silva.

The Wednesday game for you, we have had that sort of possession 10 times probably, drives me nuts.

Respect teams that have a go, not ones who sit back, waste time, play for set pieces and breaks.

 

[Cjay]

Looking at that, a pattern does seem to be the case for games 20-28 (roughly 3rd quarter of the season). Which does appear to be what you are going through at the moment.
Those final quarter stats are better though. If you do pick up, like those stats suggest, I hope it's not at the expense of us.

Not as dramatic though as people think

And in some cases it doesnt really happen.

We better pick up soon, dont fancy the playoffs

 

[Kenilworth]

Excuse me, I walked home last season, got well pissed on the way and could have called in any number of curry houses for sustenance if I could have been bothered to go 50yds out of my way

Reyt.
1. you don't live in the city centre
2. Ken Jnr and I walked back to his gaff after we left you (city centre) and saw nowt but industrial units
3. ER is still in the arse end of town

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Reyt.
1. you don't live in the city centre
2. Ken Jnr and I walked back to his gaff after we left you (city centre) and saw nowt but industrial units
3. ER is still in the arse end of town

ER is a right hike from the city centre

 

[Kenilworth]

ER is a right hike from the city centre

Me and Ken Jnr - reyt 'ard tha kno's

 

[Maidenhead]

Reyt.
1. you don't live in the city centre
2. Ken Jnr and I walked back to his gaff after we left you (city centre) and saw nowt but industrial units
3. ER is still in the arse end of town

Not my fault that he prefers a swanky pad in LS1 to a nice house in LS27