Leeds are fallin apart again 2019

[Hamburg Blade]

If a rule isn’t there is it always the case that something that occurs isn’t unfair? As I said the rulebook can’t cover EVERYTHING just in case ANYTHING happens. Maybe they can now add it to the rulebook?

You are claiming they should be docked points for doing something that you deem to be unfair, despite it not being against the rules. That would be a good definition of unfair.

 

[ucandomagic]

You are claiming they should be docked points for doing something that you deem to be unfair, despite it not being against the rules. That would be a good definition of unfair.

Regulation does not have to be prescriptive - in fact it is more efficient if it is not. For example, health and safety regs require you to minimise risk so far as reasonably practicable - and in every case the reasonable practicability is considered.

In football there are non specific rules such as ungentlemanly conduct and bringing the game into disrepute which allow governing bodies to develop accepted ways of behaviour by precedent, rather than trying to specify every last action. For example, nothing specifies that managers shouldn’t kick water bottles into crowds, but it has become accepted as unacceptable and frequently results in punishment.

It is incidents such as this current industrial espionage affair, and the action then taken, that create the precedent which sets future acceptable behaviour.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Lest there be any doubt that there is not the slightest shred of contrition at Leeds United about this episode, yesterday's press conference settled it.

The Dirties know that there are no rules that they can be caught on and that performance yesterday by Bielsa was all about ramping up the mind games even further.

Bielsa has a calculated reason for everything he does. In revealing the full extent of the 'spying', he has attempted to intimidate and get in the minds of every other club in the division. He's basically sending out the message that, 'we know more about you than you would ever have thought possible'. And truth be told, Bielsa is probably pleased that this story has broken and given him the chance to get that message out.

The question now is how opponents will react. Will they be cowed by what Bielsa said and crumble or will they respond positively and be out to make a point against them? I suppose we'll have an answer if Leeds run away with the title by 12 points.

But alternatively if Leeds start to struggle, then the claim will be that Bielsa’s been found out
And without gaining prior knowledge of the tactics and starting line up of the opposition he’s not all that.
Will also be interested to see how the victim (Frank Lampards Derby) are affected, it could unsettle them for a while.
Makes a refreshing change that there’s some unsavoury controversy and it not about us.

 

[Willglynning]

But alternatively if Leeds start to struggle, then the claim will be that Bielsa’s been found out
And without gaining prior knowledge of the tactics and starting line up of the opposition he’s not all that.
Will also be interested to see how the victim (Frank Lampards Derby) are affected, it could unsettle them for a while.
Makes a refreshing change that there’s some unsavoury controversy and it not about us.

Don’t tempt fate!

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Regulation does not have to be prescriptive - in fact it is more efficient if it is not. For example, health and safety regs require you to minimise risk so far as reasonably practicable - and in every case the reasonable practicability is considered.

In football there are non specific rules such as ungentlemanly conduct and bringing the game into disrepute which allow governing bodies to develop accepted ways of behaviour by precedent, rather than trying to specify every last action. For example, nothing specifies that managers shouldn’t kick water bottles into crowds, but it has become accepted as unacceptable and frequently results in punishment.

It is incidents such as this current industrial espionage affair, and the action then taken, that create the precedent which sets future acceptable behaviour.

All true, but any punishment has to be based on at the very least a broad set of principles laid out in advance. If they are going to be punished based on a charge of "bringing the game into disrepute" then it has to at least be shown that what he did has done this, which would mean they have to claim that watching a training session uninvited or unannounced is clearly understood by all to be wrong. Personally I think it would be incredibly hypocritical to do so, but we'll see. If they don't want this in the sport, then make a clear announcement to the guidelines and possible punishment and deal with any future infractions.

 

[Brian Deane]

Don’t tempt fate!

Was just thinking same......not heard owt about 'Calgon' for a few days

 

[metalblade]

What a load of old bollocks this saga is, no rules have been broken no punishment needed. To me it is a very clever ploy to sow doubt in the minds of every club in the Championship or I should say any club dumb enough to fall for it. At the end of the day there is not one game played in this division that can't be viewed by anyone who wants to study it from TV etc. What advantage are dirty Leeds going to get by having an employee looking in over the fence of opponents training ground ? The fact that the said employee had a pair of binoculars and some pliers is just to embellish the spy story, I suppose the best the police could charge anyone for having such items on them could be "going equipped to burgle" or maybe bird or trainspotting.
Same old Leeds though unsportsmanlike as ever and that's about it.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

It's XI vs XI. Pulling a shirt at a corner will have more impact on the game that this once the whistle gets blown. Hardly anything gets made of that after the first few weeks of the season.

Absolutely, this is the point I was making. Shirt pulling etc also has a much more direct effect on a game than alleged spying!!

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

It's definitely wrong because it's such unsporting behaviour, like not giving the ball back after the opposition has kicked it out for an injury. We were rightly up in arms when that cost us at Highbury, so to say this is OK just because there's no rule would be hypocritical. At the end of the day though, there is no rule and nothing will come of it so it's much ado about nothing really.

What will be interesting though is if Leeds points average drops for the second half of the season, now that this advantage will presumably have been taken away. Let's hope it does, we might all be thanking big Frank in a few months for pointing it out.

Sorry, but I won't be thanking that entitled Cockney twat for anything, anytime soon. Whatever we think of Leeds, it's only because famous Frank acted like a mardy arse that it's got all this coverage.

 

[bromtom]

I like Bielsa, what he's done isn't defined in a law but would be classed as unsportsmanlike behaviour and possibly bringing the game into disrepute or not showing respect to the league and the clubs in it, so he'll probably get some form of punishment.

Frankly I'm surprised at how many seem to be angrily leaping to his defence, they're our rivals, dock them 100 points haha

 

[YES Blade]

As some others have pointed out, if you don’t want anyone watching you train then make sure it’s private! Build a 10 foot height fence, do all your shape and set pieces indoors etc. Clubs spends millions on their training ground yet allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to wonder past and see what’s going on.

If someone gets their car nicked after leaving the doors wide open with the engine running, they’re a fucking idiot that was asking for it to get nicked!

 

[Sheffsteel]

What advantage are dirty Leeds going to get by having an employee looking in over the fence of opponents training ground ?it.

Bielsa explained in the interview yesterday why he does it.
Remember he doesn’t view general training sessions, he sends someone the day before the match to view the private training session
the intention is

1: To acquire the starting line up as they train together. Injured players will miss the final training session.
2: To watch set piece routines from corners and freekicks.
3: To watch specialist tactics being practiced for specific players.

So Leeds will have known in advance that Derby’s set piece specialist Harry Wilson was out injured and not playing.
Every manager would prefer that their last minute tactics remain secret, otherwise the opposition have a good idea of what they are facing. Leeds did it to gain an advantage, some might think it’s a significant advantage but Bielsa was trying to explain yesterday that’s he’s researched the tactics every team employs so if he did gain an advantage it was very small. However very small differences can sometimes effect a match result.

Anyhow he’s from another country so can rightly say he didn’t know it was bad sportsmanship
Also he didn’t break any rules so don’t see what can be done apart from a warning.

 

[bromtom]

As some others have pointed out, if you don’t want anyone watching you train then make sure it’s private! Build a 10 foot height fence, do all your shape and set pieces indoors etc. Clubs spends millions on their training ground yet allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to wonder past and see what’s going on.

If someone gets their car nicked after leaving the doors wide open with the engine running, they’re a fucking idiot that was asking for it to get nicked!

They already have 10 foot high fences, it's just you can see through them

 

[GallonofMagnet]

Regulation does not have to be prescriptive - in fact it is more efficient if it is not. For example, health and safety regs require you to minimise risk so far as reasonably practicable - and in every case the reasonable practicability is considered.

In football there are non specific rules such as ungentlemanly conduct and bringing the game into disrepute which allow governing bodies to develop accepted ways of behaviour by precedent, rather than trying to specify every last action. For example, nothing specifies that managers shouldn’t kick water bottles into crowds, but it has become accepted as unacceptable and frequently results in punishment.

It is incidents such as this current industrial espionage affair, and the action then taken, that create the precedent which sets future acceptable behaviour.

What he said.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Posted the same in the other thread but this is some quality burn from The Hut.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

As some others have pointed out, if you don’t want anyone watching you train then make sure it’s private! Build a 10 foot height fence, do all your shape and set pieces indoors etc. Clubs spends millions on their training ground yet allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to wonder past and see what’s going on.

If someone gets their car nicked after leaving the doors wide open with the engine running, they’re a fucking idiot that was asking for it to get nicked!

The spy who was caught at derby was found with pliers on him , the spy literally broke in to spy on them

 

[PokerBlade]

The spy who was caught at derby was found with pliers on him , the spy literally broke in to spy on them

I think this is the thing. If your training is visible from public land, or you let people come to watch your training sessions, then you have no right to complain if people do just that. If you feel the need to hide in the bushes with wire cutters and binoculars then you already know you're not supposed to be doing what you're doing.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

The spy who was caught at derby was found with pliers on him , the spy literally broke in to spy on them

He didn't break in anywhere.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I think this is the thing. If your training is visible from public land, or you let people come to watch your training sessions, then you have no right to complain if people do just that. If you feel the need to hide in the bushes with wire cutters and binoculars then you already know you're not supposed to be doing what you're doing.

He was hiding in the bushes now? Next thing his Aston Martin will have had an ejector seat.

 

[bromtom]

He was hiding in the bushes now? Next thing his Aston Martin will have had an ejector seat.

Last seen fleeing in a westerly direction wearing a chrome and white jetpack.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread; did Leeds really fall apart?

 

[Glasto]

The spy who was caught at derby was found with pliers on him , the spy literally broke in to spy on them

No he didn’t, you really have to take your Leeds hating glasses off their mate. Derbyshire police confirmed this wasn’t the case.

 

[Glasto]

*there

 

[grafikhaus]

It's definitely wrong because it's such unsporting behaviour, like not giving the ball back after the opposition has kicked it out for an injury. We were rightly up in arms when that cost us at Highbury, so to say this is OK just because there's no rule would be hypocritical.

Lest there be any doubt that there is not the slightest shred of contrition at Leeds United about this episode, yesterday's press conference settled it.

The Dirties know that there are no rules that they can be caught on and that performance yesterday by Bielsa was all about ramping up the mind games even further.

Bielsa has a calculated reason for everything he does. In revealing the full extent of the 'spying', he has attempted to intimidate and get in the minds of every other club in the division. He's basically sending out the message that, 'we know more about you than you would ever have thought possible'. And truth be told, Bielsa is probably pleased that this story has broken and given him the chance to get that message out.

The question now is how opponents will react. Will they be cowed by what Bielsa said and crumble or will they respond positively and be out to make a point against them? I suppose we'll have an answer if Leeds run away with the title by 12 points.

For football fans 'of a certain age', the reason Leeds are reviled to this day is that they've bent the rules to breaking point since the days of corrupt Don Revie. It started in earnest in a game at Elland Road (I think it was 9th August 1969) when Leeds unveiled their 'new look' - white tracksuit tops with the players' names on the back, noncy little tabs round their socks with the players' numbers on them, co-ordinated warm-up routine (similar to the cheerleaders in American football) - all totally unfamiliar to the English game back then. The Leeds fans were worked into a frenzy and Spurs were blown away. (All well described in Hunter Davies' excellent book 'The Glory Game'.)

The later-disgraced Revie kept 'detailed dossiers' on all his teams' opponents and - it could be argued - what Bielsa is doing is just a modern-day equivalent of 'being ahead of the game'. All well and good? Nothing to see here, move on? Well, no. Hand-in-hand with Revie's tactics went blatant cheating, outrageous fouling and intimidation - of Leeds' opponents and often the ref. As ever, Leeds are 'just this side of the law', have always had the inexplicable support of the media and no action will be taken over Bielsa.

I shudder to think of the press reaction if Wilder or Warnock had done it, though.

 

[Sparky The Blade]

As some others have pointed out, if you don’t want anyone watching you train then make sure it’s private! Build a 10 foot height fence, do all your shape and set pieces indoors etc. Clubs spends millions on their training ground yet allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to wonder past and see what’s going on.

If someone gets their car nicked after leaving the doors wide open with the engine running, they’re a fucking idiot that was asking for it to get nicked!

They may be an idiot and the insurance company may not pay out but the law still sees the car as being stolen and the thief will be treated accordingly.

 

[Jonboy60]

*there

Good save.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

*there

You have 10 minutes from the time you post to hit the edit button and get rid of such embarrassing mistakes. Especially useful if someone actually pulls you up on something before the 10 minutes has elapsed.

 

[1889]

He was hiding in the bushes now? Next thing his Aston Martin will have had an ejector seat.

He was in an Aston Martin?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

He was in an Aston Martin?

And a tuxedo, apparently. When he pressed the button on his watch in the morse code for "snidey bastard" it could detect and record back heels and one-twos from 300 yards.

 

[JohnDenver]

As a previous poster has pointed out, in the wider world, compliance and regulation isn’t just about rules and laws. Displaying a healthy and fair culture is central. That’s what auditors will look for, rather than trying to catch organisations in the act of rule breaking.

What Leeds did wasn’t a heinous crime, but it doesn’t make it acceptable behaviour. In my line of work I’m obliged to maintain the security of my company’s data. But if someone was caught peering through my office window to obtain information, they’d be in trouble.

Some of our new Leeds friends have come on this board and not accepted wrongdoing, preferring to indulge in whataboutery as a defence.

Whereas the club says...

Following comments made by Marcelo Bielsa yesterday the club will look to work with our head coach and his staff to remind them of the integrity and honesty which are the foundations that Leeds United is built on

I suggest they actually try living up to their words.