Kieran Maguire on Blades Finances

[mattbianco1]

 

[Champagneblade]

It would be interesting to know how much the promotion bonus was.

Kieran Maguire is guessing 10-12m. I think last time it was 20m.

So this in itself is going to grossly exaggerate the wage figure and also the overall loss.

 

[mattbianco1]

I'd say that proves to my point in the Wednesday thread other day that without parachute payments, clubs would be royally fucked.

This new Financial Regulator needs to re-balance the pyramid because the Premier League is killing English football

 

[Carlton Blade]

£80m in outstanding loans (£52m to the bank, £28m to the directors). Be interesting to know if any of that has been cleared this year, I wouldn't imagine it has.

Income in 21/22 was £67m before transfer dealing so likely to be a similar number next season

 

[brownblade]

Thanks for making the effort to share.

So... Will we spend any money on new transfers in the summer?!

 

[mattbianco1]

And here come the pigs

 

[Carlton Blade]

I'd say that proves to my point in the Wednesday thread other day that without parachute payments, clubs would be royally fucked.

This new Financial Regulator needs to re-balance the pyramid because the Premier League is killing English football

Without PP's, the club wouldn't have been able to sign the players from 19/20 & 20/21 and would have been forced to sell other assets earlier. The whole point of them is to give teams a chance to compete in the PL but survive in the Championship without having to fold. You can clearly see the lessons the club has tried to learn with the complete removal of legacy contracts from the books for this relegation. Wage bill of about £45m in 21/22. I think that'll be nearer £30m this coming season

 

[sheff_blade90]

this does almost cement the rumours that i had heard that. that promotion was critical for the health & future of the club. as no matter how bad this season is, it is better than not getting promotion. because we couldve ended up like Portsmouth with a firesale to survive

& the 104m explains why we couldnt spend hardly anything in the Sumner

 

[Sean Thornton]

this does almost cement the rumours that i had heard that. that promotion was critical for the health & future of the club. as no matter how bad this season is, it is better than not getting promotion. because we couldve ended up like Portsmouth with a firesale to survive

& the 104m explains why we couldnt spend hardly anything in the Sumner

The £104m relates to historical (inc 2023) losses since incorporation.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

 

[Carlton Blade]

this does almost cement the rumours that i had heard that. that promotion was critical for the health & future of the club. as no matter how bad this season is, it is better than not getting promotion. because we couldve ended up like Portsmouth with a firesale to survive

& the 104m explains why we couldnt spend hardly anything in the Sumner

Losses last year were around £30m. It would be great to think a bit of the debt could have been cleared this season but it seems unlikely.

So it's likely to still be about £20m worth of repayments on loans to find (I think)

 

[Balti Pie]

May be a daft question incoming, but are we in danger of breaking FFP rules?!
I know we seem to have spent fuck all in transfers, but doesn't the rule allow you to lose X number of pounds per year depending what league you're in?
£15m p/a in the champ, £35m p/a in the prem - or summat like that?

 

[jt64]

Losses last year were around £30m. It would be great to think a bit of the debt could have been cleared this season but it seems unlikely.

So it's likely to still be about £20m worth of repayments on loans to find (I think)

That said, we're getting close to the point where we're not still losing £10m/season just on amortisation of McBurnie/Brewster alone

 

[Carlton Blade]

That said, we're getting close to the point where we're not still losing £10m/season just on amortisation of McBurnie/Brewster alone

As much as there is a lot of stress around the amount of players being out of contract etc, the club is finally back to a (playing side) cost base similar to when Wilder took over the first time. No guarantee of anything but certainly the removal of the majority (Brewster still costing about £2m in actual cash next season is going to hurt) of the high cost/low return contracts is a financial relief the club had to have

 

[sheff_blade90]

Losses last year were around £30m. It would be great to think a bit of the debt could have been cleared this season but it seems unlikely.

So it's likely to still be about £20m worth of repayments on loans to find (I think)

but i heard that majority of this 104m had built up since relegation.

will say that Football desperately needs to get a hold of the debt problem & quickly. our losses of 30m are the norm, because so many clubs are racking up dangerous debt as its the only way to be successful. . FFP isnt fit for purpose with teams able to lose 40 & 105m. teams will go to the wall

 

[Sean Thornton]

May be a daft question incoming, but are we in danger of breaking FFP rules?!
I know we seem to have spent fuck all in transfers, but doesn't the rule allow you to lose X number of pounds per year depending what league you're in?
£15m p/a in the champ, £35m p/a in the prem - or summat like that?

Adjustments need to be made to the losses for non relevant expenses. Plus the profit in PL2 season should see us through.

 

[Revolution]

May be a daft question incoming, but are we in danger of breaking FFP rules?!
I know we seem to have spent fuck all in transfers, but doesn't the rule allow you to lose X number of pounds per year depending what league you're in?
£15m p/a in the champ, £35m p/a in the prem - or summat like that?

I think this answer to this is no, but others will know better and Maguire is likely to comment on the point on X or the Price of Football pod this week, I would guess.

 

[Carlton Blade]

but i heard that majority of this 104m had built up since relegation.

will say that Football desperately needs to get a hold of the debt problem & quickly. our losses of 30m are the norm, because so many clubs are racking up dangerous debt as its the only way to be successful. . FFP isnt fit for purpose with teams able to lose 40 & 105m. teams will go to the wall

FFP relies on owners footing the bills for losses because they don't want to lose the asset (the club they bought) for zero if it goes bust

 

[Trigger Blade]

And here come the pigs

They’ve moved on, they’re now speculating on points deductions for us breaching FFP.

Unsurprisingly, none of them have any idea what the rules are or if we’ve broken them, so they’ll go round in circles consoling themselves with believing that whatever mess they’re in, we’re in a worse one

 

[loyalblade95]

this does almost cement the rumours that i had heard that. that promotion was critical for the health & future of the club. as no matter how bad this season is, it is better than not getting promotion. because we couldve ended up like Portsmouth with a firesale to survive

& the 104m explains why we couldnt spend hardly anything in the Sumner

When I heard those rumours at the time about promotion pretty much getting rid of some of the debt, it made me think that if we hadn't been promoted we would have ended up selling Ndiaye, Berge, Anel and perhaps a few others to settle the finances.

Who knows, maybe the money we would have got last season plus the sale of those 3 players would have been enough to pay back that 104m, especially with the figures being touted for Anel as well as what we sold Ndiaye for.

 

[loyalblade95]

May be a daft question incoming, but are we in danger of breaking FFP rules?!
I know we seem to have spent fuck all in transfers, but doesn't the rule allow you to lose X number of pounds per year depending what league you're in?
£15m p/a in the champ, £35m p/a in the prem - or summat like that?

It'll depend on the accounts which come out on the 30th June, if we were quite quick about selling Anel and Souza before the 30th June, then the sale of those players would go into this season's accounts, any players sold from the 1st July onwards go into next seasons accounts.

Edit: I am basing this off of what I heard a finance expert saying about why Forest ended up in trouble with FFP, apparently most of it has to do with their decision not to sell Brennan Johnson to balance last year's books when they were warned that they would breach FFP rules if they did not sell him by the 30th June 2023.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

They’ve moved on, they’re now speculating on points deductions for us breaching FFP.

Unsurprisingly, none of them have any idea what the rules are or if we’ve broken them, so they’ll go round in circles consoling themselves with believing that whatever mess they’re in, we’re in a worse one

If it was the case, I think that we would all happily take a points deduction this year, as it would make absolutely no difference to our final position. Could be argued that we could take a huge hit, without complaining, as it would set a standard that could benefit us later, if we get our stuff in order and get promoted again.

 

[sheff_blade90]

FFP relies on owners footing the bills for losses because they don't want to lose the asset (the club they bought) for zero if it goes bust

thats the worrying part of the last 15yrs. where finances have gone from needing an owner hundreds of millions, to billions, to tens of billions. thats worrying because like we are seeing at reading or Wednesday, that owner wont lose a wink of sleep if they go under but it will ruin that community

without it blending to the other. if the regulator does what it says & makes the football clubs more sustainable it can only be a good thing

 

[Carlton Blade]

thats the worrying part of the last 15yrs. where finances have gone from needing an owner hundreds of millions, to billions, to tens of billions. thats worrying because like we are seeing at reading or Wednesday, that owner wont lose a wink of sleep if they go under but it will ruin that community

without it blending to the other. if the regulator does what it says & makes the football clubs more sustainable it can only be a good thing

I don't have any faith in a government appointed regulator. It's an election year and playing to the football crowd as potential voters is a cheap trick.

Something has to happen though. Maybe make owners personally responsible for any losses a club sustains and give their personal phone numbers to all creditors That'd reign spending in

 

[sheff_blade90]

When I heard those rumours at the time about promotion pretty much getting rid of some of the debt, it made me think that if we hadn't been promoted we would have ended up selling Ndiaye, Berge, Anel and perhaps a few others to settle the finances.

Who knows, maybe the money we would have got last season plus the sale of those 3 players would have been enough to pay back that 104m, especially with the figures being touted for Anel as well as what we sold Ndiaye for.

i would say anyone on high wages wouldve gone as well. as well the 3 you mentioned. id guessed Egan, mcburnie & jebbison

 

[loyalblade95]

i would say anyone on high wages wouldve gone as well. as well the 3 you mentioned. id guessed Egan, mcburnie & jebbison

The main problem with FFP between the championship and the premier league is that you're allowed to lose quite a bit more in the premier league than you are in the championship.

There's even rumours that Chelsea might get hit with FFP next season because their losses will be affected by the fact that they aren't in Europe this season and have lost a chunk of that revenue that comes from playing in Europe. That's probably why they were desperately trying to sell Conor Gallagher for around £50 million in January.

 

[Champagneblade]

And here come the pigs

Quick reminder:

Sheffield Wednesday named Europe's worst financial performers in 2021

Off The Pitch name Sheffield Wednesday as the worst financial performers out of 185 European clubs in 2021

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[Addison]

It would be interesting to know how much the promotion bonus was.

Kieran Maguire is guessing 10-12m. I think last time it was 20m.

So this in itself is going to grossly exaggerate the wage figure and also the overall loss.

It was widely reported as £8m in 2019. Kev M in a Daily Fail rant used it as one example of PA not being fit to own the Club post Court Judgement implying he had little experience of managing the clubs finances.

 

[sheff_blade90]

im going to show my age here. but how close are we to another ITV digital situation reappearing

 

[Sean Thornton]

It would be interesting to know how much the promotion bonus was.

Kieran Maguire is guessing 10-12m. I think last time it was 20m.

So this in itself is going to grossly exaggerate the wage figure and also the overall loss.

The Star seem to think it’s £6m which seems low to me but seeing as they can’t see the bleeding obvious that Directors Loans increased by £22m in 22/23 and instead think and suggest it’s older l really see KM’s figure being more realistic.