JVW v Wilder

[ChezVegasBlade]

Thinking back, the recruitment of Verrips, Retsos, Zivkovic and Coulibaly have all the signs of being JVW "recommendations" that were done seemingly without Wilders full backing as he was unwilling to play them in any meaningful games, preferring to stick with his tried and tested (and at the time fairly successful) regulars. I just wonder if this style of recruitment was the start of the problems between the Board and Wilder?

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Thinking back, the recruitment of Verrips, Retsos, Zivkovic and Coulibaly have all the signs of being JVW "recommendations" that were done seemingly without Wilders full backing as he was unwilling to play them in any meaningful games, preferring to stick with his tried and tested (and at the time fairly successful) regulars. I just wonder if this style of recruitment was the start of the problems between the Board and Wilder?

Coulibaly can’t play for us anyway. That’s why he’s in Belgium for three years to become eligible for a work permit.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

I’m pretty sure Bettis said we can have Coulibally whenever we want him. Retsos should’ve been used better whilst here. Verrips we don’t know if he’s any good or not. Zivkovic was a weird one. JVW was also instrumental in identifying Berge.
JVW has identified and brought in some good players for Beerschot giving them exactly what they needed. If this is the way forward then I’m all for it. Too many times we’ve paid over the odds for British players when there’s talent abroad.
Look at teams like Genk for example, granted they can offer European football, but they bring in up and coming players (like Sander) for peanuts. We need to start doing this in my opinion.

 

[stringer]

I’m pretty sure Bettis said we can have Coulibally whenever we want him. Retsos should’ve been used better whilst here. Verrips we don’t know if he’s any good or not. Zivkovic was a weird one. JVW was also instrumental in identifying Berge.
JVW has identified and brought in some good players for Beerschot giving them exactly what they needed. If this is the way forward then I’m all for it. Too many times we’ve paid over the odds for British players when there’s talent abroad.
Look at teams like Genk for example, granted they can offer European football, but they bring in up and coming players (like Sander) for peanuts. We need to start doing this in my opinion.

When/why should Retsos have been used better?

 

[ashsufc1889]

Retsos, Zivkvic and Verrips weren't/aren't good enough. Coulibaly will either join us next season or be snapped up by someone with more buying power in europe.

 

[alcoblade]

I’m pretty sure Bettis said we can have Coulibally whenever we want him. Retsos should’ve been used better whilst here. Verrips we don’t know if he’s any good or not. Zivkovic was a weird one. JVW was also instrumental in identifying Berge.
JVW has identified and brought in some good players for Beerschot giving them exactly what they needed. If this is the way forward then I’m all for it. Too many times we’ve paid over the odds for British players when there’s talent abroad.
Look at teams like Genk for example, granted they can offer European football, but they bring in up and coming players (like Sander) for peanuts. We need to start doing this in my opinion.

All the foreigners we’ve brought in have looked wank. Even our record signing made the midfield go backwards. If they’re a sign of things to come we should be worried.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

All the foreigners we’ve brought in have looked wank. Even our record signing made the midfield go backwards. If they’re a sign of things to come we should be worried.

We’ve only seen one... Berge... and he’s our best player!
Can name far more British lads that have looked... wank!

 

[CoatesyBlade]

When/why should Retsos have been used better?

I just think with his history he could’ve proven to be quite an asset. So long as he’d overcome his injury problems.
Obviously Bash and Baldock were playing very well at the time so that made his chance less likely if that’s what you was referring to

 

[McGrath]

I’m pretty sure Bettis said we can have Coulibally whenever we want him. Retsos should’ve been used better whilst here. Verrips we don’t know if he’s any good or not. Zivkovic was a weird one. JVW was also instrumental in identifying Berge.
JVW has identified and brought in some good players for Beerschot giving them exactly what they needed. If this is the way forward then I’m all for it. Too many times we’ve paid over the odds for British players when there’s talent abroad.
Look at teams like Genk for example, granted they can offer European football, but they bring in up and coming players (like Sander) for peanuts. We need to start doing this in my opinion.

Retsos may have turned out good. But he was never going to replace that defence last season. It was churning out unheard of amounts for clean sheets for a promoted side.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Retsos may have turned out good. But he was never going to replace that defence last season. It was churning out unheard of amounts for clean sheets for a promoted side.

No I do fully agree with that. They were performing well and no one got injured.
But identify players like Retsos and Berge is a good thing moving forward... that’s what I was getting at

 

[alcoblade]

We’ve only seen one... Berge... and he’s our best player!
Can name far more British lads that have looked... wank!

Not according to the OP, who listed several - and they were wank.

Sander Berge may rate by many as our best player, but our best midfield unit in the Wilder era NEVER included Sander Berge.


For me, he’s not nearly as good as the price tag suggests. And even if I’m wrong, it’s without question that he didn’t fit in our midfield, so it’s not an example of success for JVW and a new DOF role.

 

[McGrath]

Chris Wilder has based a very successful managerial career on having a close knit 'tight' dressing room and a squad who are well bonded together.

He puts a great deal of time into making sure new signings have the right character. He won't sign anyone who he doesn't fit in.

It took us from League One mediocrity to the cusp of Europe in 4 straight seasons. Who else would achieved that. His approach works.

If he had allowed van Winkel to make signings for him. Players he has not checked up on, who might be more of an unknown. Players who he might have found it tougher to integrate into the dressing room. Would we achieved the same success?

 

[robbiez666]

Coulibally will not get a work permit to come to the UK next season. Long way off meeting the criterion. I suspect he'll be sold for a very healthy profit.
Who knows with Verrips. Our reserve keepers seem to all be not good enough. I have no idea how good or bad he is, but playing for the bottom club in the Dutch top flight and their fortunes seem to have improved since he arrived.
Retsos and Zickovic were brought in to fill the squad and to have a look at. I wish we'd brought to foreign loans in this season. Maybe we could have filled the bench?

Chuck in Berge and it's fairly clear that none of these are probably signings chosen by Chris Wilder.

 

[Blade58]

Thinking back, the recruitment of Verrips, Retsos, Zivkovic and Coulibaly have all the signs of being JVW "recommendations" that were done seemingly without Wilders full backing as he was unwilling to play them in any meaningful games, preferring to stick with his tried and tested (and at the time fairly successful) regulars. I just wonder if this style of recruitment was the start of the problems between the Board and Wilder?

The issues began way back when the Prince brought Van Winkel on board. I'm talking when he first arrived, was that about 3 years ago? The purpose of employing him was to give him the responsibility of D of F. However, at that time I managed to speak with a Director, who at that time was a member of the board. He told me (on Xmas eve when I was half cut) that there was a bit of board room bust up (he didn't use those words though). Apparently, CW made his feelings known and was having none of it. The boardroom shenanigans resulted in a vote. The Prince and his team voting to give JVW the role. McCabe and his team including thus Director, voted against. The vote against was carried I think by one vote by the McCabe team. That is why JVW didn't get the role back then.

Obviously, that has now changed, with full ownership lying with HRH and this has now resurfaced. I still ask the question though. The Prince, knowing what he knows regards CW 's views on having full control of team matters, decides that a D of F is going ahead regardless of CW's views (which HRH is entitled to do) is that CW walking away, (who had said wanted to stay) or is that an engineered push?

People make their own mind up

 

[FMBlade1]

There should have been more balance.

I don't mean to be unkind, but Osborne, Lowe, Robinson and Bryan are not PL quality. Perhaps we could have looked elsewhere beyond Dover instead?

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Chris Wilder has based a very successful managerial career on having a close knit 'tight' dressing room and a squad who are well bonded together.

He puts a great deal of time into making sure new signings have the right character. He won't sign anyone who he doesn't fit in.

It took us from League One mediocrity to the cusp of Europe in 4 straight seasons. Who else would achieved that. His approach works.

If he had allowed van Winkel to make signings for him. Players he has not checked up on, who might be more of an unknown. Players who he might have found it tougher to integrate into the dressing room. Would we achieved the same success?

He has that’s not in question. It worked up until last season. But in this game you have to evolve. And it’s not like Berge has a bad character. Neither did it look that way with Retsos tbh. As I’ve said in another thread. A compromise could’ve/should’ve been reached. Especially as things became so broken... it shouldn’t have been so definitive as it has turned out to be.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

There should have been more balance.

I don't mean to be unkind, but Osborne, Lowe, Robinson and Bryan are not PL quality. Perhaps we could have looked elsewhere beyond Dover instead?

Balance... that’s the word!

 

[Rob86]

I’m pretty sure Bettis said we can have Coulibally whenever we want him. Retsos should’ve been used better whilst here. Verrips we don’t know if he’s any good or not. Zivkovic was a weird one. JVW was also instrumental in identifying Berge.
JVW has identified and brought in some good players for Beerschot giving them exactly what they needed. If this is the way forward then I’m all for it. Too many times we’ve paid over the odds for British players when there’s talent abroad.
Look at teams like Genk for example, granted they can offer European football, but they bring in up and coming players (like Sander) for peanuts. We need to start doing this in my opinion.

You traitor ! spouting none sense like this. If the board had given Wilder another £100m we’d not be in this mess

 

[steve26272]

Chris Wilder has based a very successful managerial career on having a close knit 'tight' dressing room and a squad who are well bonded together.

He puts a great deal of time into making sure new signings have the right character. He won't sign anyone who he doesn't fit in.

It took us from League One mediocrity to the cusp of Europe in 4 straight seasons. Who else would achieved that. His approach works.

If he had allowed van Winkel to make signings for him. Players he has not checked up on, who might be more of an unknown. Players who he might have found it tougher to integrate into the dressing room. Would we achieved the same success?

Agree on all that

But whilst McB, Brewster, Burke and Rammers might be good value on the lash, they ain’t done much on the field

Need a balance, it doesn’t have to be all one or the other

JVW should suggest half a dozen players, who have been checked out against CWs criteria
CW then passes on 2, but agrees on 3 or so on

My gut feeling is CW was so against a DoF, he either stubbornly refused, or when given them didn’t give them a fair chance

Case in point - Rammers makes mistake after mistake, confidence is shot. Right thing to do was take him out of the firing line for a few games, then put him back in (see Anchilotti/Pickford)

 

[Brownieblade]

We over achieved last season with a squad that if we are honest would have gone down most seasons

I’m not saying that in long run Wilder couldn’t have built another squad capable of staying in the premier league for several years etc but reality is he built a good Championship team which turned out to be one of those teams that had a great run at a special time

 

[McGrath]

He has that’s not in question. It worked up until last season. But in this game you have to evolve. And it’s not like Berge has a bad character. Neither did it look that way with Retsos tbh. As I’ve said in another thread. A compromise could’ve/should’ve been reached. Especially as things became so broken... it shouldn’t have been so definitive as it has turned out to be.

I'm saving this post. Let's see in a few years if this fantastic new system that you think we should 'evolve' with gets us to 9th in the Premier League.

In my view Wilder is one of the most innovative managers I've ever seen. He's ahead of the game. Not behind it

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

Case in point - Rammers makes mistake after mistake, confidence is shot. Right thing to do was take him out of the firing line for a few games, then put him back in

Why was it? He's probably been our best player in 2021. Seems we handled it correctly.

 

[metalblade]

One thing is for sure we have to get in some foreign players you don't get value for money sticking with UK only players £20m gets you a championship player and that's it and you have to hope they can make the step up.
What Chris Wilder needs to realise is he is no longer managing the likes of Halifax, Oxford or Northampton where one man can take care of everything. Sheffield United and no doubt his next club are much larger concerns, not many clubs in the top two divisions are run by one man bands he will have to adapt or never make a go of it at the top level. Today's top level managers have enough on their plate with team selections and tactics with the added media bollocks they have to do without scouting for players home and abroad, not enough hours in the day simple as that.

 

[YES Blade]

There should have been more balance.

I don't mean to be unkind, but Osborne, Lowe, Robinson and Bryan are not PL quality. Perhaps we could have looked elsewhere beyond Dover instead?

Lowe and Robinson really highlighted our recruitment failings. I know they were brought in as back up but Forest and Derby fans said straight away they weren’t bothered about them leaving, they were clearly signings a Premier League club shouldn’t be making.

What’s the point in signing players we know will fail? Surely Wilder would’ve been better putting some trust in JvW finding him a cheap player from abroad that could’ve adapted well to English football and pushed the settled team for a starting place?

 

[tincan]

He has that’s not in question. It worked up until last season. But in this game you have to evolve. And it’s not like Berge has a bad character. Neither did it look that way with Retsos tbh. As I’ve said in another thread. A compromise could’ve/should’ve been reached. Especially as things became so broken... it shouldn’t have been so definitive as it has turned out to be.

Retsos is on loan at St Etienne with an option to buy for of €6.5 million if he made 20 appearances - he's made 4 due to injury. So maybe an option for the Championship but only if its a sicknote freebie.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Retsos, Zivkvic and Verrips weren't/aren't good enough. Coulibaly will either join us next season or be snapped up by someone with more buying power in europe.

He's our player

 

[FMBlade1]

Lowe and Robinson really highlighted our recruitment failings. I know they were brought in as back up but Forest and Derby fans said straight away they weren’t bothered about them leaving, they were clearly signings a Premier League club shouldn’t be making.

What’s the point in signing players we know will fail? Surely Wilder would’ve been better putting some trust in JvW finding him a cheap player from abroad that could’ve adapted well to English football and pushed the settled team for a starting place?

Rojo or Robinson?

I know who I would have gone for, but Wilder thought differently.

Rojo, a player who has played and scored for Argentina at the World Cup and played in the Champions League... or Jack Robinson hmm.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Chris Wilder has based a very successful managerial career on having a close knit 'tight' dressing room and a squad who are well bonded together.

He puts a great deal of time into making sure new signings have the right character. He won't sign anyone who he doesn't fit in.

It took us from League One mediocrity to the cusp of Europe in 4 straight seasons. Who else would achieved that. His approach works.

If he had allowed van Winkel to make signings for him. Players he has not checked up on, who might be more of an unknown. Players who he might have found it tougher to integrate into the dressing room. Would we achieved the same success?

Of course we wouldn't. The only argument is the players bought since promotion haven't worked. And CW/Mitchell made it clear the Championship was their focus. To carry on that success there needed to be a bigger pool of targets.

Anyone wanting signings forced on Wilder was wrong. Anyone wanting Wilder to continue to throw money at the Championship and hope for the best was also wrong. There was a way of working that gave both parties more of what they wanted. But instead the club and Wilder fucked themselves over.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

I'm saving this post. Let's see in a few years if this fantastic new system that you think we should 'evolve' with gets us to 9th in the Premier League.

In my view Wilder is one of the most innovative managers I've ever seen. He's ahead of the game. Not behind it

Get it screenshot mate haha
I don’t know what the future holds. Wilder has been brilliant for us. And I agree his innovation before this season was something that made us all proud.
It’s not been that way at all this season though unfortunately... quite the opposite really. I’m just saying I think I’d have been looking for a solution to the current problem if I was at the helm. So I totally understand it.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

Anyone wanting signings forced on Wilder was wrong. Anyone wanting Wilder to continue to throw money at the Championship and hope for the best was also wrong. There was a way of working that gave both parties more of what they wanted. But instead the club and Wilder fucked themselves over.

Bingo