Judging the strikers

[Chabuddy G]

Keep seeing it a lot. 'We need to spend on a real good striker in the summer' - do we, why? I find it incredibly harsh and I'm unwilling to throw much credence to the opinion that the strikers aren't good enough or need to be doing better as frankly they aren't getting any sort of service and haven't done for some time. How can you judge strikers when they aren't getting chances?
Don't tell me they should be creating for themselves, how many strikers in the Prem can do that? And what did they cost? Fucking Joelinton is rubbish and he cost £50mil.
Off the top of my head strikers that could create their own chances with absolutely no service and take them in this division are Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sterling, Aguero, Rashford, Martial, Aubameyang, Son... Then I'm struggling. Not even Harry Kane would be able to do anything playing for us right now.

Early on in the season when we were opting for the Robinson/McBurnie strike partnership we were just lumping it up to them and expecting them to do something with it. They cut isolated figures, and as we know Robinson struggled and has since been moved on. Well it's been the same with Billy and Oli since they were put together. The partnership doesn't work, but it looks even worse if you isolate them and pump it up to them.

The only real time we've looked like providing service this season is when McGoldrick plays, but he's a provider rather than producer since he has 0 goals this season. And we play with 2 strikers... so that's a problem. And he's had his injury troubles to boot.
We look dangerous with Moose on more than anyone because he's got raw pace and unpredictability, but he's not being called on much for whatever reason - and even when he is he'll not get much service with the set up as it is.

What can we do to change that? Well, for me at least, revert to the 3-5-2 of old - with Freeman operating the Duffy role. It's just about our only option, especially if JOC is missing as without him it means we can only do the proper overloads down one flank.
The arguments I hear to that is that we'll lose our defensive solidity and we'll get battered. Will we? Why? We got pumped once in 2 seasons in the championship nearly exclusively playing that formation - that was a trip to the north east which we lost 3-0... remind you of a more recent event?
When attacking, that player is more advanced. When defending, he slots into midfield and shores it up. It's not rocket science, but it would change our fortunes up front no end, and we'd get to actually see if Luke Freeman is up to it before the transfer window comes.

We need to put a bit more onus on attacking rather than defensive play because, although you don't want to hear it, since christmas we've turned into one of those boring, afraid to lose Premier League sides we used to take the piss out of.

 

[Ricky]

since christmas we've turned into one of those boring, afraid to lose Premier League sides we used to take the piss out of.

Yep.

 

[PokerBlade]

The whole team were poor but on that last performance the strikers take the least of the blame. You don't play Sharp for his hold up and link up play. He's a pure poacher and he's bloody good at it. McBurnie's also taken his chances for the most part. The two of them are only any good if we're creating chances. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is if we play like have in the last two games.

The problem is with those two together there isn't anyone to link the attack to the midfield. The gap gets bigger and we end up playing a long ball that neither of them are particularly good at dealing with. And if they do get it down then there's usually not support for them with a flat midfield. This is why McGoldrick has such a huge impact on the way we play. He drops deep, he passes well, and he has the skill to beat a man.

If we're looking for another striker it has to be in the McGoldrick mould. We need to hold possession better and get the midfielders moving the ball around. And I still have big hopes for Mousset. Fitness and personal problems aside he has a lot of things that Sharp and McBurnie lack.

But really, you can't ship three goals like we did and then put the blame on the front two.

 

[Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head]

Our system worked well last year and earlier in the season when one of the strikers dropped deeper and allowed for more fluidity around the box. Mcburnie tried to do this a few times on Sunday but he was either wasteful or passed backwards.

As with most of the players in our system, we need very specific players and Didsy is the only striker we have capable of this. The issue with him is he has been wasteful with chances this season, but add that to his game (with him being 5 years younger) and you probably have a 100m player on your hand.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Five goal leading scorer says it all, not good enough. Sell and recruit then try again.

 

[Sportbilly /Detroit Blade]

Not wanting to knock McBurnie as he has not had a lot of service in the last two games, but I genuinely do not know as yet what type of striker he is. He is not a poacher. He is not strong enough imo to hold the ball up and muscle defenders, and he is definitely lacking a yard of pace.

Having said that I actually think he is quite clinical in his finishing.

As somebody else just said with these two up top the gap with the midfield is too great and it just doesn't work

 

[BigBed]

I think it's just the lack of a crowd?
Our boys always play 50times better with the crowd and atmosphere to play up to.
LETS hope a bit of rest and a lot of Red Bull helps these next couple of days!!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Tufty knew this area would be critical in the summer which is why he spunked big moneh (for us) on McBurnie, Mousset and Robinson (and Freeman to a lesser extent).

For none of them to have really come off is both bewildering and worrying...

Would imagine we'll be buying another 2 or 3 strikers this Summer too.

 

[robbiez666]

We don't really have the kind of strikers we need for our formation.

Without an attacking midfielder there's simply no link up between midfield and attack.

They don't really compliment each other so there's no preferred pairing as such.

 

[BigBed]

Hang on, they need to get used to our style, and i don't think any of them have....yet.
Thing is, I don't see Robinson coming back, Mcburnie is very hit and miss, Moose is an enigma and Zivkovic won't be here long enough to make a difference.
As for Sharp, Didzy and Clarke, they are great servants to the club, but there's a reason they're not known Prem strikers.
I'd honestly bring a couple of the academy lads and plonk them on the bench, give them 10 or 15mins here and there, and get them used to the game without the fans, they should be a bit less nervous that way?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

... there isn't anyone to link the attack to the midfield. The gap gets bigger and we end up playing a long ball that neither of them are particularly good at dealing with. And if they do get it down then there's usually not support for them with a flat midfield. This is why McGoldrick has such a huge impact on the way we play. He drops deep, he passes well, and he has the skill to beat a man.

Yep. This was always the problem with the flat 3 back in the Champ, and it was the main concern with the flat 3 early doors this season. As you say, Dids dropping and linking the lines was one way we‘d mitigated the problem previously. Giving Bash and JOC licence was another. Having the wingbacks pushing up and past the central midfield, ditto. Currently, solution 1 and 2 aren’t in play, and Edna and Gorgeous George seem to have misplaced the mojo.

I was encouraged by how high up the pitch Berge was appearing now and then during yesterday’s first half, and hoped this might offer the sniff of an alternative solution. But ... nope.

If we’re continuing with the flat 3, and while we are without JOC‘s attacking threat, I think we def need Dids in the XI, and we also need Lundstram starting with orders to push up wherever possible in that box to box role he was so effective at during the first third of the season, as another way of closing the gap between middle and final thirds. Until or unless we can rediscover our all-round intensity and get everyone properly fit (inc Fleck) and available again, I’d reckon those are the minimum changes we can make if we’re to give ourselves a shot. So, no Berge for me, and no McBurnie.

That said, the likelihood of us going with 4 at the back on Wednesday is probably quite high. So much of the above could be bollocks.

Of course, it could be bollocks anyway, 4 at the back or not

 

[Birley Blade]

I’ll take a roasting for this but the best all round ST we’ve had in the last couple of years is probably Clayton Donaldson. That says it all.

 

[Brian Deane]

Not wanting to knock McBurnie as he has not had a lot of service in the last two games, but I genuinely do not know as yet what type of striker he is. He is not a poacher. He is not strong enough imo to hold the ball up and muscle defenders, and he is definitely lacking a yard of pace.

Having said that I actually think he is quite clinical in his finishing.

As somebody else just said with these two up top the gap with the midfield is too great and it just doesn't work

I wouldn't say Mcburnie is anywhere near clinical. He missed another good chance (Header) in the first half when he tamely headed it straight at the keeper.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I’ll take a roasting for this but the best all round ST we’ve had in the last couple of years is probably Clayton Donaldson. That says it all.

I've read some crazy shit in the past 24 hours, but congrats that's the most bizarre thing I've read by some distance!

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

I’ll take a roasting for this but the best all round ST we’ve had in the last couple of years is probably Clayton Donaldson. That says it all.

Crikey. Have your specs been occluded for the last three years?

MAJOR roasting incoming!

 

[Birley Blade]

Crikey. Have your specs been occluded for the last three years?

MAJOR roasting incoming!

I don’t mind taking a roasting if people back it up, but in the short period he was with us, you couldn’t fault him. As an ALL ROUND ST name something he couldn’t do? He was strong, held the ball up, ran at defenders and he could finish. I can recall at least 3 goals he scored from the edge of the box that were fantastic. Sunderland Away (his debut) being an example.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

I don’t mind taking a roasting if people back it up, but in the short period he was with us, you couldn’t fault him. As an ALL ROUND ST name something he couldn’t do? He was strong, held the ball up, ran at defenders and he could finish. I can recall at least 3 goals he scored from the edge of the box that were fantastic. Sunderland Away (his debut) being an example.

Come on, this is a piss-take, right? Do you really need people to give reasons why Clayton Donaldson is not "the best all round striker we've had in the last couple of years"?

 

[Birley Blade]

Yes.

 

[Onetouchfootball]

Keep seeing it a lot. 'We need to spend on a real good striker in the summer' - do we, why? I find it incredibly harsh and I'm unwilling to throw much credence to the opinion that the strikers aren't good enough or need to be doing better as frankly they aren't getting any sort of service and haven't done for some time. How can you judge strikers when they aren't getting chances?
Don't tell me they should be creating for themselves, how many strikers in the Prem can do that? And what did they cost? Fucking Joelinton is rubbish and he cost £50mil.
Off the top of my head strikers that could create their own chances with absolutely no service and take them in this division are Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sterling, Aguero, Rashford, Martial, Aubameyang, Son... Then I'm struggling. Not even Harry Kane would be able to do anything playing for us right now.

Early on in the season when we were opting for the Robinson/McBurnie strike partnership we were just lumping it up to them and expecting them to do something with it. They cut isolated figures, and as we know Robinson struggled and has since been moved on. Well it's been the same with Billy and Oli since they were put together. The partnership doesn't work, but it looks even worse if you isolate them and pump it up to them.

The only real time we've looked like providing service this season is when McGoldrick plays, but he's a provider rather than producer since he has 0 goals this season. And we play with 2 strikers... so that's a problem. And he's had his injury troubles to boot.
We look dangerous with Moose on more than anyone because he's got raw pace and unpredictability, but he's not being called on much for whatever reason - and even when he is he'll not get much service with the set up as it is.

What can we do to change that? Well, for me at least, revert to the 3-5-2 of old - with Freeman operating the Duffy role. It's just about our only option, especially if JOC is missing as without him it means we can only do the proper overloads down one flank.
The arguments I hear to that is that we'll lose our defensive solidity and we'll get battered. Will we? Why? We got pumped once in 2 seasons in the championship nearly exclusively playing that formation - that was a trip to the north east which we lost 3-0... remind you of a more recent event?
When attacking, that player is more advanced. When defending, he slots into midfield and shores it up. It's not rocket science, but it would change our fortunes up front no end, and we'd get to actually see if Luke Freeman is up to it before the transfer window comes.

We need to put a bit more onus on attacking rather than defensive play because, although you don't want to hear it, since christmas we've turned into one of those boring, afraid to lose Premier League sides we used to take the piss out of.

All our strikers are not good enough for this level, with the exception of Moose, but due to his fitness levels and obvious mental attitude to get himself fit enough means he falls into the same bracket.

 

[robbiez666]

I’ll take a roasting for this but the best all round ST we’ve had in the last couple of years is probably Clayton Donaldson. That says it all.

I actually see what you mean in terms of attributes. Pace, strength, good in the air, decent hold-up play. Just needed to be 10 years younger and twice as good!

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Keep seeing it a lot. 'We need to spend on a real good striker in the summer' - do we, why? I find it incredibly harsh and I'm unwilling to throw much credence to the opinion that the strikers aren't good enough or need to be doing better as frankly they aren't getting any sort of service and haven't done for some time. How can you judge strikers when they aren't getting chances?
Don't tell me they should be creating for themselves, how many strikers in the Prem can do that? And what did they cost? Fucking Joelinton is rubbish and he cost £50mil.
Off the top of my head strikers that could create their own chances with absolutely no service and take them in this division are Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sterling, Aguero, Rashford, Martial, Aubameyang, Son... Then I'm struggling. Not even Harry Kane would be able to do anything playing for us right now.

Early on in the season when we were opting for the Robinson/McBurnie strike partnership we were just lumping it up to them and expecting them to do something with it. They cut isolated figures, and as we know Robinson struggled and has since been moved on. Well it's been the same with Billy and Oli since they were put together. The partnership doesn't work, but it looks even worse if you isolate them and pump it up to them.

The only real time we've looked like providing service this season is when McGoldrick plays, but he's a provider rather than producer since he has 0 goals this season. And we play with 2 strikers... so that's a problem. And he's had his injury troubles to boot.
We look dangerous with Moose on more than anyone because he's got raw pace and unpredictability, but he's not being called on much for whatever reason - and even when he is he'll not get much service with the set up as it is.

What can we do to change that? Well, for me at least, revert to the 3-5-2 of old - with Freeman operating the Duffy role. It's just about our only option, especially if JOC is missing as without him it means we can only do the proper overloads down one flank.
The arguments I hear to that is that we'll lose our defensive solidity and we'll get battered. Will we? Why? We got pumped once in 2 seasons in the championship nearly exclusively playing that formation - that was a trip to the north east which we lost 3-0... remind you of a more recent event?
When attacking, that player is more advanced. When defending, he slots into midfield and shores it up. It's not rocket science, but it would change our fortunes up front no end, and we'd get to actually see if Luke Freeman is up to it before the transfer window comes.

We need to put a bit more onus on attacking rather than defensive play because, although you don't want to hear it, since christmas we've turned into one of those boring, afraid to lose Premier League sides we used to take the piss out of.

Doesn't have to be 'big' money, put Karlan Grant in our side from the start of the season, and he'd be leading goalscorer for us. Put him the side now and he'd outscore anyone in the team. He has physicality, mobilty, a directness and an eye for goal with either foot & his head. He scored 4 in 13 for Huddersfield last season, who were an abomination of a football team, and he's scored 16 in 33 for them this season, when they've been shit.

He reminds me of a young Stan Collymore; £12.5m to £15m would've got him in the summer, and will probably be sufficient this summer. We appear to have spent £33m on absolute gash, and we'll be extremely lucky to recoup £20m of that. They've scored 10 goals between them, when Maupay has got 9 on his ownsome.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Come on, this is a piss-take, right? Do you really need people to give reasons why Clayton Donaldson is not "the best all round striker we've had in the last couple of years"?

Does he mean the same Clayton Donaldson who pulled his hamstring taking a shot?

By 'all round' I assume basic levels of fitness isn't one of the criteria? Neither is being able to play a full 90 mins... But apart from that...

However, if you judge it on a YouTube highlights reel - yep Clayton had it all!!!

 

[Chabuddy G]

Doesn't have to be 'big' money, put Karlan Grant in our side from the start of the season, and he'd be leading goalscorer for us. Put him the side now and he'd outscore anyone in the team. He has physicality, mobilty, a directness and an eye for goal with either foot & his head. He scored 4 in 13 for Huddersfield last season, who were an abomination of a football team, and he's scored 16 in 33 for them this season, when they've been shit.

He reminds me of a young Stan Collymore; £12.5m to £15m would've got him in the summer, and will probably be sufficient this summer. We appear to have spent £33m on absolute gash, and we'll be extremely lucky to recoup £20m of that. They've scored 10 goals between them, when Maupay has got 9 on his ownsome.

Would he? Unreal statement. A player who’s still at Huddersfield would be our top scorer. You don’t even know if he’d get in our team.

Maupay plays for a different team who create more chances than us.
The money we’ve spent isn’t on ‘absolute gash’ either. What a ridiculous statement.

 

[Chabuddy G]

All our strikers are not good enough for this level, with the exception of Moose, but due to his fitness levels and obvious mental attitude to get himself fit enough means he falls into the same bracket.

You’re literally disregarding the whole post

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Would he? Unreal statement. A player who’s still at Huddersfield would be our top scorer. You don’t even know if he’d get in our team.

Maupay plays for a different team who create more chances than us.
The money we’ve spent isn’t on ‘absolute gash’ either. What a ridiculous statement.

We have a goal scoring record comparable to 3 out of the bottom 5 sides.

Would you happily have Robinson, Moose & McBurnie as our go to strike force next season? I wouldn't; Robinson appears lightweight, lacklustre and not suited to either playing as a 9 or a 10 which is what we need. Moose appears to have serious issues about keeping weight off and consistency. McBurnie is like lukewarm water, neither one thing or the other, just something in between. Doesn't appear to possess either the pace, guile, skill or strength to seriously bother PL defences or the net.

I've seen enough of Grant to know that he's an improvement on what we've currently got, and can play the lone forward role if needs must, which i suspect they will do next season, as we fill the gap between the midfield and front line with an attacking midfielder

I won't bring BS or Didsy into this discussion, but it's worth noting that our full backs have scored more than them.

Fleck & Lundstram have dug us out of a problem this season, for which I am grateful.

 

[Sportbilly /Detroit Blade]

I wouldn't say Mcburnie is anywhere near clinical. He missed another good chance (Header) in the first half when he tamely headed it straight at the keeper.

All strikers miss chances. I actually think with decent service he could bag a decent total.

 

[CentralQuay]

To be fair to Wilder, he knew Sharp/Mcgoldrick/Clarke would not be good enough, hence him signing 3 other strikers.
The problem is, he replaced 3 championship strikers with 3 others.


Creativity is a major issue, but can you really play more expansively and risk that defensive record with the current strikers?
I'm not sure....

 

[The Vicar]

Great post, add Haller, Wesley, Pepe to your list of strikers with a poor return this year from mega zillions moves, & Maupay has only done OK.

But without service anyone will struggle.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Would he? Unreal statement. A player who’s still at Huddersfield would be our top scorer. You don’t even know if he’d get in our team.

Maupay plays for a different team who create more chances than us.
The money we’ve spent isn’t on ‘absolute gash’ either. What a ridiculous statement.

in retrospect, 'absolute gash' is hyperbole

 

[Onetouchfootball]

You’re literally disregarding the whole post

No Mate, I have read your post, but the facts remain that Sharp is not at this level (poor player at this level), McBurnie could be a quality hold up man in time when he fills out, Mcgold' can hold his own, when he is fit, but won't get the goals required and the Moose is the enigma that will continue to haunt who ever employs him, and forget the rest.