John Egan

[LJBlade]

Despite the tone of your post, you actually "gave me" Sunderland, Reading and Middlesbrough.
And admitted that he struggled at Luton.

I'm not sure you disagree with me at all... even though you want to.

I'm not suggesting any of the above is linked to a potential transfer out. He's been making mistakes for a couple of seasons.
People just hate to admit that because Egan is such a fan's favourite.

I know you’ve already ignored this question but I’ll ask again, can you name one single defender who has never made any mistakes?

 

[LJBlade]

Of course they do. But Egan could make an error that costs us a goal, do very little else of note, and most would still give him a 7/10..

In the PL he seemed immune to criticism. It was always everybody around him that was at fault, letting him down etc. I noticed it then and it just seems to have continued.

I like Egan a lot and I think he's a pretty solid defender, at this level, in a 3 man defence. But that's as far as my opinion goes.
He isn't particularly fast or physical and aerially he's average (at best) in both boxes.
He's uncomfortable in a 2 and vulnerable in a high line. The system we play covers a lot of his flaws.

Again, I’m probably wasting my time asking you this but other than Sunderland what other ‘mistakes’ has he made this season that you don’t see other defenders make occasionally?

 

[Titch1889]

Last night and the Sunderland game. Also forest in the first legged PO's.

I agree with you, I've seen so many games where he causes mistakes leading to goals or close too. He can be so solid, but makes massive mistakes.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I know you’ve already ignored this question but I’ll ask again, can you name one single defender who has never made any mistakes?

Again, I’m probably wasting my time asking you this but other than Sunderland what other ‘mistakes’ has he made this season that you don’t see other defenders make occasionally?

Other defenders have also made mistakes. Yes.

Do you feel you have proven a point now?

It feels irrelevant to the thread, which is about John Egan.

I'm not suggesting he should be perfect.
I'm suggesting he is overrated by a decent proportion of our fans who seem blind to his mistakes, which are more frequent than most would like to admit.

I've listed a number from just this season and pointed out the weaknesses / limitations in his game. Most want to ignore them, say "yeah but what about X, what about Y, he was at fault too," or tell me I'm expecting too much of him.

 

[Nagima]

Of course they do. But Egan could make an error that costs us a goal, do very little else of note, and most would still give him a 7/10..

In the PL he seemed immune to criticism. It was always everybody around him that was at fault, letting him down etc. I noticed it then and it just seems to have continued.

I like Egan a lot and I think he's a pretty solid defender, at this level, in a 3 man defence. But that's as far as my opinion goes.
He isn't particularly fast or physical and aerially he's average (at best) in both boxes.
He's uncomfortable in a 2 and vulnerable in a high line. The system we play covers a lot of his flaws.

While I agree that Egan is vulnerable with a high line and gets caught on the turn. I think his aerial ability is fine. The problem up until Anel came and since Jack got injured, is that any corner or free kick was aimed for him as we didn't have any other option. Hence its easier for defences to defend against him. Now that Anel is in the side we look better.

As for physicality he has more than enough. His old man playing Gaelic Football was a beast. Egan has some of that in him. What he may lack at times is positioning and casualness when passing. At this level he is very good.

 

[LJBlade]

Other defenders have also made mistakes. Yes.

Do you feel you have proven a point now?

It feels irrelevant to the thread, which is about John Egan.

I'm not suggesting he should be perfect.
I'm suggesting he is overrated by a decent proportion of our fans who seem blind to his mistakes, which are more frequent than most would like to admit.

I've listed a number from just this season and pointed out the weaknesses / limitations in his game. Most want to ignore them, say "yeah but what about X, what about Y, he was at fault too," or tell me I'm expecting too much of him.

It isn’t in any way irrelevant, though I can understand why you’re trying to make it seem that way.

The only real mistake from this season was the one against Sunderland and as I’ve said there, all players make misplaced passes, in Egan’s position they’re going to be more obvious. The rest of the examples you gave either had nothing to do with him (Luton) or weren’t anything out of the ordinary. For example, you said he lost his man for the Boro equaliser. Can you name one defender who hasn’t lost his man ever? You see those goals being scored all of the time, even when the very best defenders are involved.

You’re very quick to point out the number of mistakes he’s apparently made but you’re never as quick to shout up when he gets us out of the shit.

You don’t get a defensive record as good as ours with defenders who have as many weaknesses/limitations as what you are suggesting Egan has.

 

[McDonagh Blade]

Other defenders have also made mistakes. Yes.

Do you feel you have proven a point now?

It feels irrelevant to the thread, which is about John Egan.

I'm not suggesting he should be perfect.
I'm suggesting he is overrated by a decent proportion of our fans who seem blind to his mistakes, which are more frequent than most would like to admit.

I've listed a number from just this season and pointed out the weaknesses / limitations in his game. Most want to ignore them, say "yeah but what about X, what about Y, he was at fault too," or tell me I'm expecting too much of him.

Yep i get your point Captain. However the question is if we get circa 6m for our pretty dependable and mostly available central defender who by the way initiates most of the forward passing from our keepers release who do we replace him with at this stage of the window?

 

[CaptainMorgans]

It isn’t in any way irrelevant, though I can understand why you’re trying to make it seem that way.

The only real mistake from this season was the one against Sunderland and as I’ve said there, all players make misplaced passes, in Egan’s position they’re going to be more obvious. The rest of the examples you gave either had nothing to do with him (Luton) or weren’t anything out of the ordinary. For example, you said he lost his man for the Boro equaliser. Can you name one defender who hasn’t lost his man ever? You see those goals being scored all of the time, even when the very best defenders are involved.

You’re very quick to point out the number of mistakes he’s apparently made but you’re never as quick to shout up when he gets us out of the shit.

You don’t get a defensive record as good as ours with defenders who have as many weaknesses/limitations as what you are suggesting Egan has.

For clarity, because others make the same sort of mistakes Egan has, we should just ignore them and exonerate him from culpability?
It's an unusual take.

We can go around in circles but neither of us will change the others mind and it's starting to become repetitive.
I've tried to be clear with my views on Egan and substantiate my opinion with my perceptions on his strengths and limitations.
I agree that he's decent in this system, at this level and it would be a blow to our chances to lose him.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Yep i get your point Captain. However the question is if we get circa 6m for our pretty dependable and mostly available central defender who by the way initiates most of the forward passing from our keepers release who do we replace him with at this stage of the window?

Covered above(ish). We shouldn't sell due to our circumstances (looking very strong contenders for promotion).

However, if we weren't looking so strong then I would sell as Egan isn't getting any better, he earns a lot and we could find a youngster to develop into the position.
As it is, we don't have time to develop someone, particularly in that exposed and vital role.

 

[LJBlade]

For clarity, because others make the same sort of mistakes Egan has, we should just ignore them and exonerate him from culpability?
It's an unusual take.

We can go around in circles but neither of us will change the others mind and it's starting to become repetitive.
I've tried to be clear with my views on Egan and substantiate my opinion with my perceptions on his strengths and limitations.
I agree that he's decent in this system, at this level and it would be a blow to our chances to lose him.

No, that’s not what I said. Twisting my words because you don’t have an answer isn’t a good look.

I’m saying that the mistakes you’re attributing to him aren’t beyond the ordinary of a good defender. To the point that they aren’t really ‘mistakes’ as such. Sunderland aside.

The fact that you’re having to stretch to provide examples shows that they aren’t as frequent as you’d like me to believe. Our defensive record backs that point up better than I can anyway.

 

[McDonagh Blade]

Covered above(ish). We shouldn't sell due to our circumstances (looking very strong contenders for promotion).

However, if we weren't looking so strong then I would sell as Egan isn't getting any better, he earns a lot and we could find a youngster to develop into the position.
As it is, we don't have time to develop someone, particularly in that exposed and vital role.

Thank you great communication as usual Captain.
We should as a club have been looking to sort this in an admittedly shortened pre season window.
What we have done is lose Loczpata more his fault than ours and have no further back up. A Connor Coady type is what is required, any suggestions and we probably have January to sort? Might be easier to recruit if we are in the top two at that time btw

 

[CaptainMorgans]

No, that’s not what I said. Twisting my words because you don’t have an answer isn’t a good look.

I’m saying that the mistakes you’re attributing to him aren’t beyond the ordinary of a good defender. To the point that they aren’t really ‘mistakes’ as such. Sunderland aside.

The fact that you’re having to stretch to provide examples shows that they aren’t as frequent as you’d like me to believe. Our defensive record backs that point up better than I can anyway.

A mistake is a mistake, regardless of the frequency of which it is made. I'm really not trying to twist your words, I just don't think your point stands up to any level of scrutiny.

You say I struggle for examples, yet I listed several in this season alone. You then tried to discard them with a nonsensical theory about how they're not really mistakes because lots of players make them...

 

[dc_blade]

A mistake is a mistake, regardless of the frequency of which it is made. I'm really not trying to twist your words, I just don't think your point stands up to any level of scrutiny.

You say I struggle for examples, yet I listed several in this season alone. You then tried to discard them with a nonsensical theory about how they're not really mistakes because lots of players make them...

If he makes so many mistakes, how is it that he’s been part of such a consistently successful defensive unit in his time with us?

 

[Champagneblade]

At the moment we have in principle:

Ahmedhodžić Egan Norrington-Davies
(Bash) (Clark) (Robinson)

I'm discounting O'Connell.

Ahmedhodžić Clark Norrington-Davies
(Bash) (Lopata) (Robinson)

Given Robinson is out injured this seems an awful risk when you're top.

Not sure where you'd get a decent centre back at such short notice.

Not as if we can now get Radic on loan from Beerschot who is at a contract impasse with them, as I'd imagine a work permit would be an issue?

A lot of the top frees are getting fixed up and no doubt in some cases will not want to play second tier:
Denayer - probably off to Wolves
Brooks - off to Mallorca
Zagadou - linked with Inter
Edgar Le - recovering from cruciate
Morrison - has a bad injury
Hector - last game 4-0, ex-Pig
Only Timothée Kolodziejczak who got relegated with St Etienne looks passable and he's left footed and more a LCB I'd say.

So you'd be trying to prize away a Championship first choice CB. Maybe if he's not a starter under Wilder, Dael Fry? Jake Cooper?

If fit, then Gary Cahill is still available. 36 now, but he'd be a stop gap.

It all seems unnecessarily messy.

 

[Blades Glory Owls Down]

It is interesting reading the debate over mistakes/not mistakes.
The fact of the matter is that ALL players make mistakes. The issue is that if an attacker/midfielder makes a mistake it is usually in a less risky area of the pitch than if a defender makes a mistake.
Usually if a defender/Keeper makes a mistake it tends to be magnified as the mistake invariably leads to an attacker for the opposition having a good opportunity on goal or scoring a goal.
With Egan playing in the centre of a three, he is most likely to be the outfield player that is furthest back. This makes him vulnerable if he messes up as there isn't usually a CB partner close by to cover/get back thus magnifying the mistake.
Whoever plays that position will be in the same situation regardless of who it is. You could put Van Dyke there and if he makes the mistake it is magnified.
For me the issue of letting him go now would be that we lose a player who has performed very well since he arrived. He has been very good for the most part in marshalling the back line and by all accounts is a very positive influence on the team/squad. He is the main person when starting an attack from the keeper and is part of a squad that knows each other well.
We dont really have enough time to look for and bring in a replacement (although you would hope that the managerial team have planned for losing our better players and have players identified to come in if we were to lose a player), and they would have to be integrated into the squad/team which could take time and lead to performance issues for the team.
Also losing Egan would make us light in the CB department. Do we have an adequate replacement in the current squad? I dont think so.
For me, the pitfalls outweigh the financial benefits.
Had this been at the start of the window/season then we could maybe accept the sale as it gives us opportunities to identify the replacement and bring them in.

 

[spongebobblade]

Despite the tone of your post, you actually "gave me" Sunderland, Reading and Middlesbrough.
And admitted that he struggled at Luton.

I'm not sure you disagree with me at all... even though you want to.

I'm not suggesting any of the above is linked to a potential transfer out. He's been making mistakes for a couple of seasons.
People just hate to admit that because Egan is such a fan's favourite.

Not quite sure how your reading into my reply. Tone of my post? Are we not allowed to disagree and make our point as to why?
Egan is a steady top end Championship defender. Not a particular favourite I’d say but generally a reliable player. When you say he’s been making mistakes for the last couple of seasons would you say he’s any more at fault then others defenders we have? Or that it’s down to lack of concentration which was suggested?

 

[spongebobblade]

However, if we weren't looking so strong then I would sell as Egan isn't getting any better,

Bizarre that you think we look so strong yet 1 player is full of mistakes. All about opinions of course

 

[Bell4]

While I agree that Egan is vulnerable with a high line and gets caught on the turn. I think his aerial ability is fine. The problem up until Anel came and since Jack got injured, is that any corner or free kick was aimed for him as we didn't have any other option. Hence its easier for defences to defend against him. Now that Anel is in the side we look better.

As for physicality he has more than enough. His old man playing Gaelic Football was a beast. Egan has some of that in him. What he may lack at times is positioning and casualness when passing. At this level he is very good.

Nailed it

 

[Stretch]

Egan is one of the best defenders in this league, and one of the reasons we are yet such strong favourites for promotion. Every player makes mistakes, and bar a few examples CBs in particular are susceptible to pace and prone to misplacing the odd pass.

Selling him now, at this stage of the window, would be lunacy of the highest degree, and would far outstrip the recklessness of selling Berge.

 

[Captain2]

Egan to Leeds
No
No
No

 

[Bell4]

Egan to Leeds
No
No
No

Would rather lose Sander than Egan

Our defence with the addition of Anal looks rock solid and will be a major reason we go up .

No one plays Egan role - he is one of the best CH in this league and selling him , especially for £4m would be madness

 

[LJBlade]

A mistake is a mistake, regardless of the frequency of which it is made. I'm really not trying to twist your words, I just don't think your point stands up to any level of scrutiny.

You say I struggle for examples, yet I listed several in this season alone. You then tried to discard them with a nonsensical theory about how they're not really mistakes because lots of players make them...

I discarded them quite easily because they didn’t really make any sense. Claiming the goal at Luton was Egan’s fault because he didn’t communicate correctly with Basham was not only nonsensical but also felt a little desperate. Anyone who really, really wants to find flaws with a player will be able to do so.

 

[Captain2]

Would rather lose Sander than Egan

Our defence with the addition of Anal looks rock solid and will be a major reason we go up .

No one plays Egan role - he is one of the best CH in this league and selling him , especially for £4m would be madness

Huge fan of John Egan would and has been for a long time first name on team sheet, captained his country and always gives 100%, of course he makes the occasional error but who in football doesn’t
Best CB we’ve had since Paul Stancliffe

 

[S64 Blade]

The misplaced pass under no pressure against Sunderland was definitely a lapse in concentration and changed the complexion of the game. We were coasting at that point.

He lost his man for the equaliser away at Middlesbrough.

He was dominated by Carlton Morris at Luton and failed to communicate properly with Basham on their goal.

He nearly gifted Reading an equaliser last night. RND bailed him out.

I rate Egan but he has mistakes in his game which have started to become more frequent.
It would be madness to sell him this late in the window though.

I think a better pair of boots/studs would help him. The number of times he’s slipped whilst playing for us is disproportionate.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Egan going would be a huge dent to Utd's promotion hopes. The defence will look far less solid and be far less organised without him, as would have been seen if he'd missed any games over the last couple of season. The fact that he's also bombproof is an additional consideration.

Unless he demands a move, I'd be inclined to reject all offers and compensate him for his loyalty via an improved contract

 

[nopigfansintown]

Ultimately it depends on fee. If you are looking at 10-15 million it wouldn't put our recruitment team in a good light if they can't identify someone in their 20s that can replace Egan and enhance and future proof the squad with that type of money. The middle centre back is the least specialist role. This shouldn't be a huge ask tbh. Anel is a case in point: a much more specialist role at circa 3-4 million.

It would be a considerable gamble to turn down that type of money that likely wouldn't be available again for this player - given the age profile. Effectively we'd be putting all our money on red (promotion).A new, improved deal is unlikely as he is already on legacy Premier League terms. If he'd take one on his current terms with a baked in rise on promotion that's doable. In effects he's a depreciating asset due to age, so it'd be madness to give a big uplift. It's a different argument entirely with our young players: we are protecting our ability to sell them for big money.

As it is Leeds are probably just tire kicking - offering a few million. All tire kickers should be given a fuck off tablet regardless of the player they're interested in.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I think he is irreplaceable to be honest given his role and function in the side.

That really should be the end if it !

UTB

 

[Sheff de party]

Egan makes mistakes because he plays every single game. And in a position where you make a mistake and it’s very noticeable.

He’s also an integral part of one of the league’s best defences.

Better the devil you know.

 

[Revolution]

Ultimately it depends on fee. If you are looking at 10-15 million it wouldn't put our recruitment team in a good light if they can't identify someone in their 20s that can replace Egan and enhance and future proof the squad with that type of money. The middle centre back is the least specialist role. This shouldn't be a huge ask tbh. Anel is a case in point: a much more specialist role at circa 3-4 million.

It would be a considerable gamble to turn down that type of money that likely wouldn't be available again for this player - given the age profile. Effectively we'd be putting all our money on red (promotion).A new, improved deal is unlikely as he is already on legacy Premier League terms. If he'd take one on his current terms with a baked in rise on promotion that's doable. In effects he's a depreciating asset due to age, so it'd be madness to give a big uplift. It's a different argument entirely with our young players: we are protecting our ability to sell them for big money.

As it is Leeds are probably just tire kicking - offering a few million. All tire kickers should be given a fuck off tablet regardless of the player they're interested in.

I think this is sound analysis. A silly money deal for Egan is a deal you do, if you have someone ready to go in his place, and if it allows you to keep other players.

One concern I would have with selling Egan which I would not with say, Berge, is his consistency in terms of appearances. United have played 175 league games since we signed Egan. He's played in 164 of them. Fitness and availability are skills. This was one reason the sale of Jags, whilst inevitable, was such a blow. Egan is the only senior centre half we have who has not been injured this season. With all the disruption we have, it would be nice to keep him and his consistency.

 

[Champagneblade]

Ultimately it depends on fee. If you are looking at 10-15 million it wouldn't put our recruitment team in a good light if they can't identify someone in their 20s that can replace Egan and enhance and future proof the squad with that type of money. The middle centre back is the least specialist role. This shouldn't be a huge ask tbh. Anel is a case in point: a much more specialist role at circa 3-4 million.

It would be a considerable gamble to turn down that type of money that likely wouldn't be available again for this player - given the age profile. Effectively we'd be putting all our money on red (promotion).A new, improved deal is unlikely as he is already on legacy Premier League terms. If he'd take one on his current terms with a baked in rise on promotion that's doable. In effects he's a depreciating asset due to age, so it'd be madness to give a big uplift. It's a different argument entirely with our young players: we are protecting our ability to sell them for big money.

As it is Leeds are probably just tire kicking - offering a few million. All tire kickers should be given a fuck off tablet regardless of the player they're interested in.

There's a difference between selling Egan in July and in September when we're top.

He plays an important role in how we line up.

Scrambling around last minute for a player who will go on to play a key role is far from ideal.