Jim Phipps summed up our current predicament perfectly...

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Kenny Jackett, Nigel Adkins, Russell Slade or Karl Robinson would have won us this league given 18 months and £10 Million.

What a waste of time and money Nigel Clough has been and the sad thing is we will be stuck with his Derby rejects until their contracts expire or some other poor chairman hires him to bore everyone shitless at their club.
 
Okay. So that little statement is ranged at the cynics. Like me, for example.

A couple of things.

1. How much did it cost to get rid of that dickhead Weir (and his coterie)? Are we to assume the Prince paid that? If so, is that part of his investment?

2. Why are we continually kept in the dark with regard the fees for players? Does the board not trust us in judgement on the true value of their worth? If Hidgon did cost two B&H and a Dick Kryswicki 1975 Pannini Card then we can make informed judgements that yes, the board got what it paid for.

3. £2.5m for Brayford? Are you fuckers on drugs? If that's the case, Cardiff took our pants down on that one. He's good, but no more worth £1.25m.

4. I disagree with him regarding discussing results. If his tack is that the past weeks since Brizzle away (where capability exceeded expectation and we fucking destroyed them) and their results are in some way inconsequential. It has to be acknowledged that we have failed to deliver and has to be discussed, especially as it has to be our only route upwards is by the playoffs, and the form is piss poor.

5. Negative comments? Just what the fuck is expected? Does he expect fans who trudged home last Tuesday night to chime in with praise and platitudes for a team beaten by the already-relegated whipping boys of the division? If we'd had three goals disallowed and hit the woodwork four times then maybe the loss could be mitigated. But if Phipps wants us to chalk that one down to the way of life and not view it negatively then he has a whole worked to understand about football and it's supporters and sponsors.

6. Playoffs. Well Jim, the current run of form into this little two or three match tourney is dogshit. We face teams who are seriously on all cylinders and want out of this division as much as us. Failure for them is as much failure for us is. Their playing staff are eating the arse out of live buffalo with no condiments on and we are meekly giving goals away and playing with no aggression, style or any notion of ability. In short, the view from the terraces is that all the players are playing in a division above their ability and from the touchline is that they are 'tired'. And now we face a test where losing is not an option, even on the big stage where as a club we have habitually fucked up before. Go look at the past statistics.

Phipps might come across as a man of the fans, what with his social media outpourings. But I feel he is already offering some sort of excuse and mitigation for our seemingly ignominious remainder in the third division. We could sit and sing halleluiah at every misplaced pass, every failed midfield breakout, every ball-watching goal-given, every bustling attack that ends up at the feet of the opposition defence, and it would never lift a tactically inept, below-ability, underperforming football team. If he is asking us to cheerfully and optimistically smile and say 'hard luck' to Sheffield United - the team we love - when they are now showing worryingly poor ability to acquire and defend a lead or prevent a loss in this vital period of the season then he is totally, absolutely misguided and not reading the mood, at all.

And lastly, if I am reading this right ... there's nowt left in the pot, even if we do scrape it and go up. Great. I guess we should be prepared therefore for a thorough beasting next season from the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield and fucking hell ... the Pigs.

We have fucked up this season. We have bought some shit players, and we are looking (at the moment) at another disappointment. I hope not. But I fear so.

pommpey
 
Worksop_Blade said:
Kenny Jackett, Nigel Adkins, Russell Slade or Karl Robinson would have won us this league given 18 months and £10 Million.

What a waste of time and money Nigel Clough has been and the sad thing is we will be stuck with his Derby rejects until their contracts expire or some other poor chairman hires him to bore everyone shitless at their club.
Click to expand...

Serious question where would Clough get another job?
His CV is utterly appalling.
He presided over one of the worst 5 years spells in Derby's long history.
 
Dec said:
Those openly predicting our failure in the playoffs before the first whistle has blown are most certainly entitled to their views, but they might do well to pause and to consider the potential effect of their open negativity on the club they profess to love
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By my recollection (regarding the fans)...

We went into the '97 playoffs believing we could win, and particularly fancied the final having just beaten Palace comfortably close to the end of the season.

'98 our form was poor going into the playoffs, but we got behind the lads and gave it everything in the home leg and deserved a slender lead.

2003 was no contest. We knew we were the best team in the playoffs, and I personally believed we were better than Leicester and at least as good as Portsmouth with automatic promotion sacrificed by two epic cup runs. The playoff semi final was one of the best nights we've seen and there was great confidence and optimism in the stands, even at 2-0 on the night. Again we were confident and positive going into the final, but 0-3 at half time is certainly beyond the influence of the fans. I even thought we might stage a remarkable come back when we got the penalty.

2009, having missed out on automatic promotion on the final day, again there was cause for optimism for the playoffs. Negative thoughts of losing the game were more like a running gag of how we never score in these big games, but I don't think we'd written off our chances before we got there.

2012 we were reeling a bit from our sudden striker shortage, but there was no reason to believe beating Huddersfield over 90 minutes, 120 minutes or 22 penalties was beyond us. Perhaps there were more pre-game predictions of defeat but I don't think the fans were being negative, just recognising a pattern.

2013 our form was poor and yes, we finally started to show that we're fed up of playoff disappointment.

I think my point is that positivity and confidence hasn't helped in any previous playoff campaign. We've believed in our chances going into four finals and failed to score a single goal. I think we can be forgiven for expecting yet another playoff failure and not getting excited at the prospect. Fans being thoroughly fed up of being stuck in League One AND a string of playoff final defeats is understandable, and moaning about that away from matches won't have any impact on the players.
 
Cardiff City went up the road to Leeds last week and won 2-1, good performance and a good result in a traditionally hostile fixture, I bet the 1000 away fans helped spur on the players from Wales to get that winner.

No, Cardiff refused the allocation. The 11 players beat Leeds without a single away chant, proof that fans don't actually influence things as much as some people like to suggest.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
It takes time. There's an undercurrent of Real Madrid sacking managers who don't win the European Cup.

Whatever happens I think Clough should be judged on next season at the earliest.
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That would be in excess of 3 years, with a relaitive gargantuan budget invested into a relative giant at it's lowest period in history, without making a step forward.

In an ideal world you might be correct. In the real world, it's completely unrealsitic.

As an aside, Real Madrid keep sacking managers and keep winning things.


UTB
 
pommpey said:
.And lastly, if I am reading this right ... there's nowt left in the pot, even if we do scrape it and go up. Great. I guess we should be prepared therefore for a thorough beasting next season from the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield and fucking hell ... the Pigs.
Click to expand...

Not sure quite how you've read into that, as I can't see Phipps say anything of the sort. Indeed he's consistently said there is a plan to ratchet up the investment in the event of promotion. In essence, there are funds available, but those will only be activated when we're in the Championship.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Can't post in detail but for various reasons I think the expectations set out here are waaaaay too high.

If this is the expected standard after just over a season and half in charge then we'll need to install a revolving door on the manager's office which would be a real shame.
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Why is it way too high to expect us to be more attacking

Why is it way too high for us to be able to keep a clean sheet here and there?

Why is it way too high to want us to emulate some of our nearest rivals that dick some of the shittest teams in this division where we struggle to beat them?

Why is it way too high if I expect us to go after a team that go down to 10 men instead of letting them dictate to us and dominate us for the last 11 minutes of play in a game where they are playing for fuck all and we are supposed to be consolidating a place in the play offs?

Why the hell am I asking too much here? It's only what is expected of a team going for promotion. The norm. The de facto standard of a successful campaign. To expect anything less is to accept we are not going to make any significant impact to the promotion places this season and given the level of investment and the size of the squad we have that is unfathomable.

I'll bet your happy that everyone at he school sports day gets a ribbon for taking part and they are not differentiated from those that win the race.

May as well feckin give up if our expectations are supposed to be that low.
 
Punk Blade said:
By my recollection (regarding the fans)...

We went into the '97 playoffs believing we could win, and particularly fancied the final having just beaten Palace comfortably close to the end of the season.

'98 our form was poor going into the playoffs, but we got behind the lads and gave it everything in the home leg and deserved a slender lead.

2003 was no contest. We knew we were the best team in the playoffs, and I personally believed we were better than Leicester and at least as good as Portsmouth with automatic promotion sacrificed by two epic cup runs. The playoff semi final was one of the best nights we've seen and there was great confidence and optimism in the stands, even at 2-0 on the night. Again we were confident and positive going into the final, but 0-3 at half time is certainly beyond the influence of the fans. I even thought we might stage a remarkable come back when we got the penalty.

2009, having missed out on automatic promotion on the final day, again there was cause for optimism for the playoffs. Negative thoughts of losing the game were more like a running gag of how we never score in these big games, but I don't think we'd written off our chances before we got there.

2012 we were reeling a bit from our sudden striker shortage, but there was no reason to believe beating Huddersfield over 90 minutes, 120 minutes or 22 penalties was beyond us. Perhaps there were more pre-game predictions of defeat but I don't think the fans were being negative, just recognising a pattern.

2013 our form was poor and yes, we finally started to show that we're fed up of playoff disappointment.

I think my point is that positivity and confidence hasn't helped in any previous playoff campaign. We've believed in our chances going into four finals and failed to score a single goal. I think we can be forgiven for expecting yet another playoff failure and not getting excited at the prospect. Fans being thoroughly fed up of being stuck in League One AND a string of playoff final defeats is understandable, and moaning about that away from matches won't have any impact on the players.
Click to expand...
Deserves more than one 'like'
Totally agree
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
It takes time. There's an undercurrent of Real Madrid sacking managers who don't win the European Cup.

Whatever happens I think Clough should be judged on next season at the earliest.
Click to expand...
The time that Steve Cotterril took to take Brizzle from bottom to 16th then pissing the league the following season and winning the JPT?

Yeah, we're too harsh on the poor lambs. We should target 2019 for getting out of this division after £30m worth of fees, signing on fees and wages. Eh?
 

Sack Clough and his staff with a compo payout of 200k should cover it, sell Brayford to a Champ side for £1.5m give the £1.3m to Nigel Adkins or Paul Lambert to help him rebuild the side, promotion in the 2015 /16 season.

Sorted.
 
You know what they say aim low avoid disappointment everyone's happy. But to be fair if we don't get promoted Clough has to go, yes he will be the fall guy but isn't that how it works everywhere ? What we don't really need is Jim Phipps in the media telling us how much the prince has invested on one hand and yet on the other to tamp down on thinking negative, me thinks Jim Phipps is looking after Jim Phipps. Us fans have been around this club a lot longer than he has and have seen it all from previous chairmen and (most of us) know when they are trying to blow hot air up our arses. I'd be astounded if we paid Cardiff £2m for Brayford, if we did Clough wants fucking with a dogs knob, if he has blown £10m on this shower of shite it is a fuck up of Robsonesque proportions. The thought of Clough being here another year gets more frightening by the minute if what Jim says is true, I'll take it with a pinch of salt, makes you wonder though.
 
£10M investment over 2 years is £5M a year. McCabe claims to have been putting that much in consistently over the last few years anyway so is HRH just replacing that or is it really "new" investment in the team?

Also Clough has generated extra funds himself by selling Maguire, 3 lucrative cup runs and potentially now 2 or 3 play off matches. Be sure that HRH and Phipps wouldn't have allowed Clough the same amount of leeway in the transfer market if he hadn't been adding money into the pot himself.

Does the £10M he's invested cover the wages of Brayford etc going forward or is he committed to chucking another £5M in the pot next year and the year after that? Is it really £2.5M a year he's investing not £5M?

Phipps is correct that now is not the right time to speculate about the manager's position.

Neither is the right time to post inflammatory comments on Facebook, presumably to try and appease a few impatient loudmouths who are giving him a hard time.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
How?

Loans? Where from? Are available players going to be better or more reliable than who we have?

Signings? Instead of?

No hindsight allowed.
Click to expand...


William, FFS achieving managers make things happen and never in my experience have their brother scouting for them. The latter point is a divergence from the basic fact that achievers make things happen and see a problem , sort it and profit from the solution. however the quality of the scouting effort , allied to the academy effort, is key to everything a manager achieves.
 
Worksop_Blade said:
Kenny Jackett, Nigel Adkins, Russell Slade or Karl Robinson would have won us this league given 18 months and £10 Million.

What a waste of time and money Nigel Clough has been and the sad thing is we will be stuck with his Derby rejects until their contracts expire or some other poor chairman hires him to bore everyone shitless at their club.
Click to expand...

As always it's not everyone.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
Not sure quite how you've read into that, as I can't see Phipps say anything of the sort. Indeed he's consistently said there is a plan to ratchet up the investment in the event of promotion. In essence, there are funds available, but those will only be activated when we're in the Championship.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. And in reality?

pommpey
 
Sothall_Blade said:
£10M investment over 2 years is £5M a year. McCabe claims to have been putting that much in consistently over the last few years anyway so is HRH just replacing that or is it really "new" investment in the team?

Also Clough has generated extra funds himself by selling Maguire, 3 lucrative cup runs and potentially now 2 or 3 play off matches. Be sure that HRH and Phipps wouldn't have allowed Clough the same amount of leeway in the transfer market if he hadn't been adding money into the pot himself.

Does the £10M he's invested cover the wages of Brayford etc going forward or is he committed to chucking another £5M in the pot next year and the year after that? Is it really £2.5M a year he's investing not £5M?

Phipps is correct that now is not the right time to speculate about the manager's position.

Neither is the right time to post inflammatory comments on Facebook, presumably to try and appease a few impatient loudmouths who are giving him a hard time.
Click to expand...

The posts are only inflammatory if you read them that way. Like the "speechless" on Twitter the other day.

For me he's just communicating clearly with the fans. It can be read as Clough will be out if we don't go up, or I'm keeping my counsel, or we're in it for the long haul.

For me I'm taking it at face value.

I would very much like him to carry on communicating and not be influenced by extreme responses. This will be easier if as fans we engage with him constructively which I think he would welcome.

I've just tried to find the OP on fb - but can't though,
 
"While I will keep my counsel on the specifics, I think it is fair to conclude that we have provided substantial support to management together with the discretion to use the resources as they see fit (within broad parameters). ...I earnestly believe we have conducted ourselves in a manner which enables us in good faith to hold management (front office and touchline) accountable for their performance."

My reading of that is "We have paid more than enough dosh and given enough support and latitude to hold those responsible to account. The seasons not over but we are not happy with either front office or touchline management and there will be changes" There's a message in there for Nigel for sure, but also for Brannigan, Simon Clough (and hopefully the tannoy announcer). The least change one would expect is for some of those parameters to be narrowed and closely monitored. More likely there will be aspects deemed unsatisfactory (otherwise why say this) so, for example, if the Board felt that the performance of the club in identifying and securing transfer targets is unsatisfactory they might want to put in place modern systems with a new scouting structure to improve it or even a director of football to oversee transfer activity. (This may cause Nigel a problem as it would clip his wings and probably put his brother out of a job. If he chose to resign it would be a cheaper option than sacking him). Of course they may just sack NC.

"That said, I believe it is not the time to be discussing the results with a view to determining our go forward plans. Simply put, all of the relevant results are NOT yet in. To my my tastes, we would all do better to settle in for a promotion battle in the playoffs and then when it is all said and done look at things in light of all the facts."

Reads to me like - " We are not going to fall into the trap of being seen to undermine NC or the promotion effort, but this is a shot across the bows that there will be consequences for failure since we cannot ignore the fans unrest or the team's performances. Failure will not be laid at the feet of the Board and there will be changes in that event - we will tell you what they are when we know how the play-offs go"

Those openly predicting our failure in the playoffs ..... might do well to pause and to consider the potential effect of their open negativity on the club they profess to love. Let's be positive, keep our doubts tamped down, and do what we do every Tuesday and Saturday -- show up determined to sing the lads on to victory."

Reads to me like - Support the shirt, let's try and get up and keep your powder dry on what's gone wrong till after the play offs and we know the outcome. Key words for me are "our doubts" - he clearly has them. I doubt none of this is news to NC - I can only think it is in public to distance the Board from NC and to try and get the supporters in a more positive frame of mind for the playoffs by indicating change will happen.
 
Woodwardfan said:
William, FFS achieving managers make things happen and never in my experience have their brother scouting for them. The latter point is a divergence from the basic fact that achievers make things happen and see a problem , sort it and profit from the solution. however the quality of the scouting effort , allied to the academy effort, is key to everything a manager achieves.
Click to expand...

This doesn't answer the question: Who do we loan, or who should we not have signed in order to get a CH or two instead?
 
Cyprus Blade said:
"While I will keep my counsel on the specifics, I think it is fair to conclude that we have provided substantial support to management together with the discretion to use the resources as they see fit (within broad parameters). ...I earnestly believe we have conducted ourselves in a manner which enables us in good faith to hold management (front office and touchline) accountable for their performance."

My reading of that is "We have paid more than enough dosh and given enough support and latitude to hold those responsible to account. The seasons not over but we are not happy with either front office or touchline management and there will be changes" There's a message in there for Nigel for sure, but also for Brannigan, Simon Clough (and hopefully the tannoy announcer). The least change one would expect is for some of those parameters to be narrowed and closely monitored. More likely there will be aspects deemed unsatisfactory (otherwise why say this) so, for example, if the Board felt that the performance of the club in identifying and securing transfer targets is unsatisfactory they might want to put in place modern systems with a new scouting structure to improve it or even a director of football to oversee transfer activity. (This may cause Nigel a problem as it would clip his wings and probably put his brother out of a job. If he chose to resign it would be a cheaper option than sacking him). Of course they may just sack NC.

"That said, I believe it is not the time to be discussing the results with a view to determining our go forward plans. Simply put, all of the relevant results are NOT yet in. To my my tastes, we would all do better to settle in for a promotion battle in the playoffs and then when it is all said and done look at things in light of all the facts."

Reads to me like - " We are not going to fall into the trap of being seen to undermine NC or the promotion effort, but this is a shot across the bows that there will be consequences for failure since we cannot ignore the fans unrest or the team's performances. Failure will not be laid at the feet of the Board and there will be changes in that event - we will tell you what they are when we know how the play-offs go"

Those openly predicting our failure in the playoffs ..... might do well to pause and to consider the potential effect of their open negativity on the club they profess to love. Let's be positive, keep our doubts tamped down, and do what we do every Tuesday and Saturday -- show up determined to sing the lads on to victory."

Reads to me like - Support the shirt, let's try and get up and keep your powder dry on what's gone wrong till after the play offs and we know the outcome. Key words for me are "our doubts" - he clearly has them. I doubt none of this is news to NC - I can only think it is in public to distance the Board from NC and to try and get the supporters in a more positive frame of mind for the playoffs by indicating change will happen.
Click to expand...

Interesting and I broadly agree with some of it but...

The play-offs are a lottery. Keeping or sacking the manager should not depend on those results. I really hope this is not their intention. If it is it would be inconsistent with previous statements. So I like to think they are still looking long term.
 
Reminds me of this chap

swfc.jpg
 
Cyprus Blade said:
"While I will keep my counsel on the specifics, I think it is fair to conclude that we have provided substantial support to management together with the discretion to use the resources as they see fit (within broad parameters). ...I earnestly believe we have conducted ourselves in a manner which enables us in good faith to hold management (front office and touchline) accountable for their performance."

My reading of that is "We have paid more than enough dosh and given enough support and latitude to hold those responsible to account. The seasons not over but we are not happy with either front office or touchline management and there will be changes" There's a message in there for Nigel for sure, but also for Brannigan, Simon Clough (and hopefully the tannoy announcer). The least change one would expect is for some of those parameters to be narrowed and closely monitored. More likely there will be aspects deemed unsatisfactory (otherwise why say this) so, for example, if the Board felt that the performance of the club in identifying and securing transfer targets is unsatisfactory they might want to put in place modern systems with a new scouting structure to improve it or even a director of football to oversee transfer activity. (This may cause Nigel a problem as it would clip his wings and probably put his brother out of a job. If he chose to resign it would be a cheaper option than sacking him). Of course they may just sack NC.

"That said, I believe it is not the time to be discussing the results with a view to determining our go forward plans. Simply put, all of the relevant results are NOT yet in. To my my tastes, we would all do better to settle in for a promotion battle in the playoffs and then when it is all said and done look at things in light of all the facts."

Reads to me like - " We are not going to fall into the trap of being seen to undermine NC or the promotion effort, but this is a shot across the bows that there will be consequences for failure since we cannot ignore the fans unrest or the team's performances. Failure will not be laid at the feet of the Board and there will be changes in that event - we will tell you what they are when we know how the play-offs go"

Those openly predicting our failure in the playoffs ..... might do well to pause and to consider the potential effect of their open negativity on the club they profess to love. Let's be positive, keep our doubts tamped down, and do what we do every Tuesday and Saturday -- show up determined to sing the lads on to victory."

Reads to me like - Support the shirt, let's try and get up and keep your powder dry on what's gone wrong till after the play offs and we know the outcome. Key words for me are "our doubts" - he clearly has them. I doubt none of this is news to NC - I can only think it is in public to distance the Board from NC and to try and get the supporters in a more positive frame of mind for the playoffs by indicating change will happen.
Click to expand...

My exact thoughts . It may well be to cushion any blow of the play offs , that the board do bring in a Director of Football and a update to the scouting system by a Director of Scouting . Both of which may well put the Clough position as untenable.

Phipps is a lawyer and a canny operator . This message would not have been off the cuff , but he would have had a discussion , with the relevant parties , before release to the open public . Political manoeuvring already going on , and to be ready for any shrapnel not falling on the board , if we fail , and Clough having to do the honourable thing , with regret and resign.

Swords may well have already been crossed , and in a situation like this , there is only one winner , as friends in the board room soon distance themselves in signs of trouble .

Where it leaves us , promotion or not , we will soon find out.

UTB
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Interesting and I broadly agree with some of it but...

The play-offs are a lottery. Keeping or sacking the manager should not depend on those results. I really hope this is not their intention. If it is it would be inconsistent with previous statements. So I like to think they are still looking long term.
Click to expand...

If we lose the play offs , they will become and viewed as irrelevant . They will take and look at the season overall . IMO the die has already been cast . If not , whats the point of the Facebook message in the first place . Its all Cloughs fault not ours . Method in there madness , with a gypsies warning , and look guys ( you fantastic supporters , who we think about and want the best for you ) buy your season tickets , we really do empathise with you , we really do.

UTB
 
Think what is most telling is this line

"Those openly predicting our failure in the playoffs before the first whistle has blown are most certainly entitled to their views, but they might do well to pause and to consider the potential effect of their open negativity on the club they profess to love."

So all those who constantly blow off with remarks against the club then claim , IT STAYS IN HERE
well quite obviously it does transfer wholly . to the staff and players

unthinking constant criticism is affecting players confidence , the fans moaning
are to blame for indifferent displays , as the players feel the lack of love

so please , try for a short period to get behind the team ,
 

William Henry Foulkes said:
This doesn't answer the question: Who do we loan, or who should we not have signed in order to get a CH or two instead?
Click to expand...



Bear in mind we have more money than all the other clubs in League 1, as far as I am aware.

I think the simple answer is that you and I watch better central defenders visit the Lane every home match. The opposition create space in our central defence without any apparent build up of pressure. We never get near their keeper from one home game to the next.

My direct answer to your question would be Collins and Butler, though there are many other better options I;m sure. Believe me Collins is a better defender than anyone we have played this season, not only that he is an organiser and a talker. I guess Butler is just the same. Some on here thought Butler was a bit crude the other week, so what? We hardly troubled their keeper yet they were in and amongst our defence throughout.

Who do we sign or loan. Why doesn't our Head Scout have a list as long as your arm? There must be a dozen young lads in the Prem and Championship who would jump at the chance of playing for us.

MKD signed McFadzean last summer. Bristol City signed Finch just before that.. Preston have two right bruisers back there.

My feeling was that Clough played Kennedy by default and didn't have a clue how good he was until he was forced to play him. Little situations like that speak volumes about managers and their ability to judge a player. Bear in mind we were told at the start of the season that McGahey was real quality and we started the season with him and persevered a while until it became obvious he is raw at best.

William, it's been an indefensible shambles of the highest order, spread out over all these months.

Then dont start me on about the lack of strikers FGS.
 
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