If Wilder gets us straight back up again....

[jono_t2000]

It was the only approach we could take because PA has no money.

I really hate people saying this as a reason. The prince may not be a self made billionaire on paper. But I can assure you he has access to almost unlimited funds from private backers in his homeland. He doesn't go Willy nilly buying clubs all over the world if this wasn't the case.

Some of those backers have already been made mention to in the media.

 

[Yogi]

Billy is too old now, along with Didzy and Bash' and yet these are our best players week in week out.

They’re not too old to be playing now but they are too old to form part of a medium term 2-3 year plan. If they are still around and playing at a first team level at the point then it should be a bonus rather than an expectation.

 

[wizadry]

If Wilder changes his stubborn traits he can stop for life and improve as a manager, he used to be the least stubborn manager ever, not sure what changed with him.

I’m sick to the back teeth of people blaming money for all our failures, we finished 9th last season with a lot less money so that chucks that theory straight in the bin.

I hope he stays for life i really do but he’s going to have to change back to how he used to be, that’s a manager who doesn’t give a fuck and won’t ever see us go out the back door again, like he has done this season, his words not mine.

Just to get one thing straight, I’ve not seen anyone say Wilder must go, if there are people saying that then i reckon it will be less than 5% of the fanbase so lets stop creating things that aren’t there.

Them 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% or whatever percentage it is have their right to suggest whatever they want, after the season we’ve had I’m almost certain any other manager gets sacked, the Prince deserves huge credit for sticking with him but that will get brushed well and truly under the carpet.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The exceptions prove the rule; we don't look enough for players outside the UK. I don't think I know better about tactics, I have my opinion, and although we tinker with the formation it has fundamentally remained the same.

Coaching, well I do think that someone like Burke could use someone like Duncan Ferguson as a mentor but we don't seem to have that in our set up. A fresh voice could do wonders, look at Graeme Jones at Newcastle.

Around 25% of our signings the last 2 seasons have been foreign players. How many should we have signed?

As for coaches, I don’t think you can say that ours are better or worse than others. If it was a case of getting ex footballers to coach players surely everyone would be at it? Never heard of Jones, is he good on Champ Manager by any chance?!

 

[BushBlade]

I really hate people saying this as a reason. The prince may not be a self made billionaire on paper. But I can assure you he has access to almost unlimited funds from private backers in his homeland. He doesn't go Willy nilly buying clubs all over the world if this wasn't the case.

Some of those backers have already been made mention to in the media.

It’s borrowed money. Do you really want him borrowing more money against the club? He’s already borrowed to buy the Lane.

 

[FMBlade1]

Around 25% of our signings the last 2 seasons have been foreign players. How many should we have signed?

As for coaches, I don’t think you can say that ours are better or worse than others. If it was a case of getting ex footballers to coach players surely everyone would be at it? Never heard of Jones, is he good on Champ Manager by any chance?!

How much % of minutes did those players play? If not that many that means:

1. They were not good enough = Recruitment failure
2. They were not good enough but not given a fair chance = management failure

I'm saying we should base everything on championship players.

I can't say ours are worse or better than others, all I know is that a fresh voice can do wonders, regardless of their championship manager stats. When i see Burke play I wonder the level of coaching he is getting.

 

[Robboblade1889]

Wilder needs to more shrewd next time in his recruitment. What Wilder did this summer was go for too much youth over experience. We needed one or two experienced players and not necessarily from the PL either.

For example once we knew Lunny wasn't signing a new deal then wheels should have been in motion to snap up Besic.

It has been said a million times but we simply cannot afford the wages of these experienced premier league players the way our wage structure is. This isn’t a dig at the owners I am actually happy the way they have done it. Had two seasons in the premier with by far the lowest wage bill means we won’t cripple the club next season. Like it or not this is a 5-10 year project making us an established premier league club and to do it we are at some point going to have to break this structure to just compete.
The transfer fees aren’t the issue because in essence they are loans paid over a longer period however going from a 40m wage bill a year to what Brighton spend (105m) is the biggest obstacle.

 

[Houston_Blade]

How much % of minutes did those players play? If not that many that means:

1. They were not good enough = Recruitment failure
2. They were not good enough but not given a fair chance = management failure

I'm saying we should base everything on championship players.

I can't say ours are worse or better than others, all I know is that a fresh voice can do wonders, regardless of their championship manager stats. When i see Burke play I wonder the level of coaching he is getting.

Finishing 9th in the PL = management failure nowadays does it?! Fuck me.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I don’t think it’s because we couldn’t afford them Iiyb ( well perhaps not all) but as been quoted many times it’s the wages. But your right of course. Tomato - Tomatoes.

I don't think it helped that we'd become a fixture of the basement part of this division. Very little sign of movement for most of the season, so attracting decent talent was always bound to prove difficult.

 

[FMBlade1]

Finishing 9th in the PL = management failure nowadays does it?! Fuck me.

I meant management aspect in one particular area, not overall. Goodness me if you didn't realize that.

 

[ancientblade]

What worries me is at the end of last season the Club knew O'Connell needed an op and they did fuck all about it why? And please don't mention Jack Robinson because he's way out of his depth at this level!

he isnt but hes the only type of player we can afford with our wage structure big decision for the board when we come back up

 

[Houston_Blade]

I meant management aspect in one particular area, not overall. Goodness me if you didn't realize that.

I was being contrary. But I really do find it ridiculous that people want to tell him the bits he’s doing wrong.

I know there’s that thing in the bollocksy corporate world about ‘don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions’, but I despair when our fans apply the same concept to Wilder and his management of the team.

 

[FMBlade1]

I was being contrary. But I really do find it ridiculous that people want to tell him the bits he’s doing wrong.

I know there’s that thing in the bollocksy corporate world about ‘don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions’, but I despair when our fans apply the same concept to Wilder and his management of the team.

It's a forum, not Wilder's Pravda.

 

[The Vicar]

If he walked we would have to get someone in but if we are to get rid I cannot think of anyone who would do a better job in our pay grade , any suggestions?

Slaven Bilic

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Do you trust him to keep us up and stick with him or do you try and get someone else in who has more tactical nous for the Premier League?

May seem a bit harsh if that were to happen but for me, Chris, like Warnock previously, just doesn't seem cut out to effectively manage in the top flight. Championship and below - great, just not really at the races when it comes to the big league.

Discuss.

Do you think Shaun Dyche was ever doubted by Burnley fans after his 2 relegations and then subsequent promotions?

 

[Bladesman]

It has been said a million times but we simply cannot afford the wages of these experienced premier league players the way our wage structure is. This isn’t a dig at the owners I am actually happy the way they have done it. Had two seasons in the premier with by far the lowest wage bill means we won’t cripple the club next season. Like it or not this is a 5-10 year project making us an established premier league club and to do it we are at some point going to have to break this structure to just compete.
The transfer fees aren’t the issue because in essence they are loans paid over a longer period however going from a 40m wage bill a year to what Brighton spend (105m) is the biggest obstacle.

I am sure we could have got Besic back.

 

[Robboblade1889]

I am sure we could have got Besic back.

Yes we could but there is a reason he isn’t playing regular football. Do you think Mo Besic would have kept us in the league? What we are missing is that bit of quality to unlock a defence or do something special. Unfortunately they cost a lot of money.

 

[steve26272]

Finishing 9th in the PL = management failure nowadays does it?! Fuck me.

definitely not

but, how would you describe starting the following season with the worst run in PL history, and ending it been relegated, having spent +£50m on transfers in the summer?

 

[Houston_Blade]

definitely not

but, how would you describe starting the following season with the worst run in PL history, and ending it been relegated, having spent +£50m on transfers in the summer?

A slow start?!

 

[Chingo]

Slaven Bilic

Really ?

 

[Chingo]

definitely not

but, how would you describe starting the following season with the worst run in PL history, and ending it been relegated, having spent +£50m on transfers in the summer?

Yeah ... less the Pepe at Arsenal cost !

 

[Espania blade]

The problem is the same for all clubs that get promotion from the Champ' to the Prem' - how do you bridge the skill gap between the two divisions in one summer transfer window?
do you do what Fulham tried by changing the whole team ? - or do you try and "hang in there" and build slowly and risk being relegated again, just like us. I actually think last seasons 9th place finish spoilt us and the prince with deluded ideas that the current squad was good enough going forward, and we could use this season to bring in younger players for the future the current squad clearly isn't good enough - we know that now, but how many would have thought that at the end of last season.

 

[steve26272]

Yeah ... less the Pepe at Arsenal cost !

2 points

Arsenal are an established European team that have recently moved into a purpose built stadium to allow them to compete at the top end
Pepe cost £72m. However, £52m of this will be paid over the course of the next five seasons. £20m initial payment.

If you finish 9th, and then spend £50m, is it not fair to say that you should be better? or at least not dramatically worse?

I would say our best performance in terms of looking like us of old and scoring was WBA, in this game we had Egan, Bash, Baldock, Lunny, Norwood, Fleck, Goldie & Billy - thats 8 of the team that took us up 2 years ago, and you could say Stevens may have started if fit

We then had McB, Burke & Brewster on the bench - thats £50m sat there watching an Ipswich off cast and a 35yr old local lad show them how its done

how do you have 4 transfer windows, across 2 seasons, spend over £100m and have so little to show for it?

 

[I should coco]

It’s borrowed money. Do you really want him borrowing more money against the club? He’s already borrowed to buy the Lane.

It's football though, so you HAVE to spend and show ambition.

Where and how we get the money from, can safely be ignored in pursuit of the here and now.

People get all pissy if you say that the money tree will pay for everything, but when pushed they can't or won't, accept the economics of football. Shitloads of tv money comes in, to keep the agents rubbing their hands. In pretty short shrift, most of this massive income disappears to pay for Lamborghinis for average footballers.
People still want big signings on big wages, with no thought as to the long term future of the club when we get relegated.

 

[Chingo]

Because 100m over 4 transfer windows is fck all in premier league terms , all our transfers are gambles because we cannot afford proven pl players !
The best we can do is get young players that have scored a few in the championship or from clubs around us , a few make the step up ie Watkins but by and large Shopping where we shop you get what you pay for !

bit disappointed that they didn’t look at many overseas players (maybe they did) but we bought proven championship and players with potential with no guarantees in the prem , I don’t blame the prince he seems to have gone to his limit ... but there lies the problem !!!

What pisses me off is the abuse these players take , I’m sure they are doing their best but they are playing against players above their level and has wilder says they have to be at 100% every game

 

[ancientblade]

Yes we could but there is a reason he isn’t playing regular football. Do you think Mo Besic would have kept us in the league? What we are missing is that bit of quality to unlock a defence or do something special. Unfortunately they cost a lot of money.

besic would still be a good addition for the championship

 

[The Bear]

Do you trust him to keep us up and stick with him or do you try and get someone else in who has more tactical nous for the Premier League?

May seem a bit harsh if that were to happen but for me, Chris, like Warnock previously, just doesn't seem cut out to effectively manage in the top flight. Championship and below - great, just not really at the races when it comes to the big league.

Discuss.

I think the CWAK partnership is good but....

What concerns me is the inability of the club to get value for money. With better players I think CWAK would be fantastic technically but something is going wrong with the recruitment. I dont rate McBurnie, Burke or Ramsdale but for different reasons.

 

[Blade1959]

2 points

Arsenal are an established European team that have recently moved into a purpose built stadium to allow them to compete at the top end
Pepe cost £72m. However, £52m of this will be paid over the course of the next five seasons. £20m initial payment.

If you finish 9th, and then spend £50m, is it not fair to say that you should be better? or at least not dramatically worse?

I would say our best performance in terms of looking like us of old and scoring was WBA, in this game we had Egan, Bash, Baldock, Lunny, Norwood, Fleck, Goldie & Billy - thats 8 of the team that took us up 2 years ago, and you could say Stevens may have started if fit

We then had McB, Burke & Brewster on the bench - thats £50m sat there watching an Ipswich off cast and a 35yr old local lad show them how its done

how do you have 4 transfer windows, across 2 seasons, spend over £100m and have so little to show for it?

So Pepe’s fee will be paid over 5 years yet the fees we have paid won’t be staggered? We won’t have paid the money you quote in one go, it’s all relative and proves that we are struggling to compete.

 

[1889]

I agree we cant afford to buy established Premier League players, but we should be aware of that and have an established recruitment strategy in place, that mirrors our financial capabilities.

Wilder assembled a fantastic squad of players in League One and made further additions in the Championship, those players were the nucleus of the side who won promotion to the Premier League.

A lot of the players he bought were leaders on the pitch, club captains and all of a certain character. Wilders ‘character assessment’ was lauded as one of the secrets behind our success. Players with the right mental attitude who will fight for the cause, dedicated to their profession and winners at all costs.

However, it seems that since Wilder has had access to a ‘comparatively’ huge transfer budget, he has seemingly excluded these ‘character assessments’ from his recruitment process, as some kind of ‘beggars can’t be choosers’ concession.

As a top Championship team, amongst our peers, we could be selective and attract the very best prospects, of the right character. But in the Premier League, we were forced to fish in a very much smaller pond, due to the competition in our new peer group. Consequently, we paid over the odds, to sign players in desperation, last minute, third and fourth choice targets and hope that they came good, just to fill out the squad. It was a flawed policy, that has ultimately only weakened the team.

I hope that is something we have learned from, if we find ourselves in the same position again. Hopefully by refusing to spend in January, it seems acknowledgement, that at least PA has seen the light?

 

[Holmfirth Blade 1977]

Well done, another ignored, what a stupid post. Even given this season Wilder is the best manager in my lifetime and this is the 3rd time I have watched us in the "big league". If and when we go down, we go down a much stronger team and build from there, he has a job until he wants to go. END OF!