Hooligans

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BiggerBladeThanThou said:
Alright alright alright, calm down. I'm not a hooligan sympathiser. I'm just interested, whilst not condoning what they do. Call it a PHD sort of interest.

This topic came back into my mindset after our away trip to Boro. NONE of our lads at Boro were what I would call 'hooligans' - they were simply excitable pissed up Blades pissed off at 6yrs in League One. In some ways, they were less than hooligans in that they spat at kids and attacked areas where families were. Hooligans don't do that.

Anyway, to my point. I've just seen some videos of the Hadjuk Split fans at Everton and the Euros lives long in the memory having been out in Marseille for the Russia game.

England don't have any hooligans anymore.

This a completely objective post not designed to promote hooliganism. This is an objective view point on the decline of actual hooliganism in this country and that is a good thing. But why is this? CCTV and not being worth losing your job for are valid reasons. But culturally, societally, have we lost abit of testosterone because of the western way of living?

I ask this, because English fans abroad will be weak targets wherever we go. We've seen it this season at Burnley, potentially at Everton and certainly at the Euros. Our police and government have made it impossible for proper hooliganism to exist (again a good thing) but English fans travelling to places like Russia, Split etc will be a safety risk and as we all say, no one should go to a game and come home in a bag.
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Interesting piece and well written. But I've got to say, if it is people pissed off at 6 years in League 1, if that is the reason then they really need to have a good long look at themselves. Life throws shit at us every day, God knows it's throwing it at me, to the extent that us being in League 1 is about no.123 on my list of "shit I worry about". And sometimes yes, I have a little drink to escape, but that's it, I don't go around acting like an arsehole ruining everyone elses day.

As for travelling abroad to see us play, not in a million, mainly for the reasons you point out.
 

cahill said:
Get hold of the book " Knowing the Score", an academic work by, coincidentally, a Sheffield United supporter. He takes, primarily a sociological, social anthropological look at what makes these people tick, where they come from, why they do it etc

Author is called Armstrong. He probably comes on here
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Gary Armstrong .( sociologist ) . also wrote a piece about it for New Society magazine many years ago
 
sportinguista said:
So being pissed off at 6 years in league one means the first away game in the championship you go causing havoc? You'd think they'd have realised they weren't watching league one football anymore and cheer the fuck up a bit wouldn't you?
You go to some lengths to stress you are not a hooligan sympathiser but a fuckwit sympathiser you clearly are if you think that they wEre so pissed up and excitable that they thought we were still in league one. If that's PHD thinking I'd love to read your MA.
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Jesus. I knew one would pipe up.

That's my view on why a minority of Blades at Boro were acting up...I'm not sympathising with them in anyway shape or form. If I am correct in my view then that's a shithouse excuse but who knows if I'm correct or not. Make your own mind up.
 
seanbeenstattoo said:
One that can hold it's ground and take on one with a strong rep.

FYI this is a thread about the culture and context of hooiganism around football. Not a glorification of it. Thought I'd made that abundantly clear in my first contribution to the conversation.
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So you reckon that this good crew could 'hold its ground' against one with a 'strong rep' over in say, Helmand province in Afghanistan, or even positions round central western Basra in Iraq, with local Shia militias and marauding Taleban raiding parties taking pot shots at them with RPGs and AK47s? I mean, there's medals and pay aplenty, good food, guns, top kit and the opportunity to tell your grandkids teal heroic tales rather than running away from similar dressed chavs in city centres or ten of you booting the fuck out of a student because he's the only target you can collectively muster the courage to 'take on '

You make hooliganism sound so exciting and chivalrous, feller, like it actually has some sort or purpose in today's society and football as a sport.

pommpey
 
I think the internet has a big part to play, it's socially unacceptable to be a hooligan these days and if you look on twitter and football forums, you're quicker to be condemmed than you are commended for hooligan like behaviour.
 
pommpey said:
So you reckon that this good crew could 'hold its ground' against one with a 'strong rep' over in say, Helmand province in Afghanistan, or even positions round central western Basra in Iraq, with local Shia militias and marauding Taleban raiding parties taking pot shots at them with RPGs and AK47s? I mean, there's medals and pay aplenty, good food, guns, top kit and the opportunity to tell your grandkids teal heroic tales rather than running away from similar dressed chavs in city centres or ten of you booting the fuck out of a student because he's the only target you can collectively muster the courage to 'take on '

You make hooliganism sound so exciting and chivalrous, feller, like it actually has some sort or purpose in today's society and football as a sport.

pommpey
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Oh FFS. Are you incapable of reading and digesting? Clearly not. I made it abundantly clear my posts were fucking observations but you decide to accuse me of all sorts of fucking shit.
And as far as Fucking Firemans Helmet or where the fuck ever shithole out east is concerned those "crews" signed up for thge gig. It says in the job description "May well get shot the fuck up and blown the fuck to bits". Don't want that? Choose another career. Posting bollox about a hybrid football pitch for a living seems quite a low risk career choice.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
Surely England fans have been a target because of the long history of English hooligans. If we don't have any anymore, we will cease to be a target. Did anyone target the Icelandic fans at the Euros?
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The 'trained' Russian Hoolies were targetting anyone.
 
seanbeenstattoo said:
but the truth is the eastern europeans are light years ahead
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Ahead?

Surely you mean behind? If they were ahead, they would be cultured and civilized.

An odd use of 'ahead'.

As is 'we could put out a good crew', come to that.

Even as 'FFS fucking observations' as you put it there some seem a sneaking admiration of these Neanderthal thugs. Just saying, no offence implied, just an observation.
 
BiggerBladeThanThou said:
This a completely objective post not designed to promote hooliganism. This is an objective view point on the decline of actual hooliganism in this country and that is a good thing. But why is this? CCTV and not being worth losing your job for are valid reasons. But culturally, societally, have we lost abit of testosterone because of the western way of living?
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There's some reasoned views above but it's none of them. It's because we're too fucking fat.
 
mosbolad said:
Ahead?

Surely you mean behind? If they were ahead, they would be cultured and civilized.

An odd use of 'ahead'.

As is 'we could put out a good crew', come to that.

Even as 'FFS fucking observations' as you put it there some seem a sneaking admiration of these Neanderthal thugs. Just saying, no offence implied, just an observation.
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It's a shame it's impossible to have an objective discussion about what is still a big issue surrounding football domestically and internationally without a few people being unable to have that discussion without making comments like yours. I find boxing repugnant,or MMA,but if one pugilist is better than the other he / she isn't decribed as behind. I also take exception to your"no offence implied " comment. Yes you do,and given you weren't inside my head last time I looked I'd prefer it if you didn't speculate on what,for reasons known only to yourself,you think someone you've never met is thinking.
If your only contribution to a thread is the above,it's not a contribution,just shit from someone who has too much time on their hands. If I want analysing I'll pay for a shrink.
 
seanbeenstattoo said:
It's a shame it's impossible to have an objective discussion about what is still a big issue surrounding football domestically and internationally without a few people being unable to have that discussion without making comments like yours. I find boxing repugnant,or MMA,but if one pugilist is better than the other he / she isn't decribed as behind. I also take exception to your"no offence implied " comment. Yes you do,and given you weren't inside my head last time I looked I'd prefer it if you didn't speculate on what,for reasons known only to yourself,you think someone you've never met is thinking.
If your only contribution to a thread is the above,it's not a contribution,just shit from someone who has too much time on their hands. If I want analysing I'll pay for a shrink.
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Bravo! :)
 
I was in St Etienne for the England -Slovakia game and so we're a good few other Blades who we got talking no to & never saw one hint of trouble just a cracking atmosphere in the square & was talking to to both Slovakian & French some of whom were bringing there kids up to experience the atmosphere but that never gets reported as it doesn't fill column inches for some drama queen journalism .
, Yes there a certain games you know it'll kick off and knew the script a mile off for Russia & Wales games so crossed them off the calendar early doors especially after Marseille in 98.
As S McG says the Russians crack pots as of a lot of the other Old Eastern Block countries ( Serbia ,Poland, Czechs to name a few ) they have no regard for any other fans whether considered 'hoolies' or not .
As an example I was on a stag do in Prague in 2006 nothing to do with football , no British teams playing there at the time so no confusion with anything of that nature . We were drinking in a small bar just outside Wenseclas Square when out of nowhere about 20 lads tooled up to fuck came bursting in attacking anyone in sight , no one had been acting up , shouting or anything else for that matter , but obvs word had gone out there was a group of English lads drinking there & they didn't like it ,bar tender after just shrugged his shoulders as though it happens ! that's how it is there.
A lot of the Eastern European brain dead are the politicians strong arm for the far left or right similar to the Nazis SA and receive a lot of political protection or a blind eye is turned when they act up .
It says it all when in the aftermath of the fighting in Marseille on Russian politician congratulated there fkg idiots on representing the country well !! Anyone thinking of attending the next World Cup over there will find their life insurance policy will be invalidated as there idiots will have free reign .
 

BiggerBladeThanThou said:
Alright alright alright, calm down. I'm not a hooligan sympathiser. I'm just interested, whilst not condoning what they do. Call it a PHD sort of interest.

This topic came back into my mindset after our away trip to Boro. NONE of our lads at Boro were what I would call 'hooligans' - they were simply excitable pissed up Blades pissed off at 6yrs in League One. In some ways, they were less than hooligans in that they spat at kids and attacked areas where families were. Hooligans don't do that.

Anyway, to my point. I've just seen some videos of the Hadjuk Split fans at Everton and the Euros lives long in the memory having been out in Marseille for the Russia game.

England don't have any hooligans anymore.

This a completely objective post not designed to promote hooliganism. This is an objective view point on the decline of actual hooliganism in this country and that is a good thing. But why is this? CCTV and not being worth losing your job for are valid reasons. But culturally, societally, have we lost abit of testosterone because of the western way of living?

I ask this, because English fans abroad will be weak targets wherever we go. We've seen it this season at Burnley, potentially at Everton and certainly at the Euros. Our police and government have made it impossible for proper hooliganism to exist (again a good thing) but English fans travelling to places like Russia, Split etc will be a safety risk and as we all say, no one should go to a game and come home in a bag.
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Pretty sure there are as many hooligans as there have ever been.
 
coolhandluke said:
You did ask for that mosbolad .

It's a real problem on here . People playing the poster NOT their post.
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You are probably right Coolhand. However it wasn't only me that thought 'good crew' and 'light years ahead' were odd choice off words, however, I accept SBTattoo explanation.

I find football hooliganism all rather pathetic. In some respects I can understand its appeal to young lads who want a bit of excitement in their life but there are far better more constructive ways. However those that carry the thuggery through their 20s 30s and onwards, now that is pathetic.
 
mosbolad said:
You are probably right Coolhand. However it wasn't only me that thought 'good crew' and 'light years ahead' were odd choice off words, however, I accept SBTattoo explanation.

I find football hooliganism all rather pathetic. In some respects I can understand its appeal to young lads who want a bit of excitement in their life but there are far better more constructive ways. However those that carry the thuggery through their 20s 30s and onwards, now that is pathetic.
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So are the fuckin idiots that jump out of perfectly good aeroplanes with a bed sheet tied to their backs . Each to their own I guess .
 
coolhandluke said:
So are the fuckin idiots that jump out of perfectly good aeroplanes with a bed sheet tied to their backs . Each to their own I guess .
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But I wouldn't worry about one of them landing on my head. I have been in situations at football matches where I have been concerned about bottles, fireworks, coins, flares, etc., which were being thrown fairly randomly. Never been hit by one, but it has distracted attention from the football.
Didn't we have the matchball delivered by parachute once at the Lane? I was very brave, I seem to remember...
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
But I wouldn't worry about one of them landing on my head. I have been in situations at football matches where I have been concerned about bottles, fireworks, coins, flares, etc., which were being thrown fairly randomly. Never been hit by one, but it has distracted attention from the football.
Didn't we have the matchball delivered by parachute once at the Lane? I was very brave, I seem to remember...
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I'm glad you don't worry about one landing on your head , life's stressful enough as it is .

My point remains the same however .
 
mosbolad said:
You are probably right Coolhand. However it wasn't only me that thought 'good crew' and 'light years ahead' were odd choice off words, however, I accept SBTattoo explanation.

I find football hooliganism all rather pathetic. In some respects I can understand its appeal to young lads who want a bit of excitement in their life but there are far better more constructive ways. However those that carry the thuggery through their 20s 30s and onwards, now that is pathetic.
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I agree with that. What I'd love to know is, what makes folks behave that way? I can only assume they must have had a really rough bringing up, never shown any love, never given any boundaries within which to behave, not taught to respect people and property. Just been "hatched", abused (verbally and physically), left vulnerable and now want to take all that bile and venom out on others.

I see it manifesting regularly enough amongst folks from a certain social class. A young mother the other day, she must have been about 20 stone in weight, looked like a right scruff, effing and belting this kid of hers around the head in the street, shouting at the top of her voice at him. The lad was maybe about 5 years old. She'd got another one a bit younger in his buggy. I just thought, poor sods! The trauma that woman is doing to that little boy treating him like that - and the one in the buggy will no doubt get it next. What hope is there? Honestly? What future have these kids got coming from a home like that? A few might make it in life, but others are going to go on and have menial jobs, or no job at all, get married while young and breed some more and treat them the same. It's not surprising they turn to violence and hooliganism to provide a bit of a spark in their pitiful lives is it?

But it's not just these folks. I find it even more shocking when it's some middle aged bloke with a good job and lifestyle who is getting a thrill from this kind of behaviour. I just think they are sick in the head and worse than the other kids who've fallen into this because of the terrible background they've had.
 
A lot of this is just peacocking.

I remember when I first started going out (with the wrong crowd I may add). All they were interested in doing was finding a few lads from a local school and having it out with them. 'Representing the school' so to speak.

This will never end, it's adolescence, bravado and peacocking and it will always remain.

Thankfully this didn't last long and all are respectable parents/adults now :)
 
Cerberus Blade said:
I agree with that. What I'd love to know is, what makes folks behave that way? I can only assume they must have had a really rough bringing up, never shown any love, never given any boundaries within which to behave, not taught to respect people and property. Just been "hatched", abused (verbally and physically), left vulnerable and now want to take all that bile and venom out on others.

I see it manifesting regularly enough amongst folks from a certain social class. A young mother the other day, she must have been about 20 stone in weight, looked like a right scruff, effing and belting this kid of hers around the head in the street, shouting at the top of her voice at him. The lad was maybe about 5 years old. She'd got another one a bit younger in his buggy. I just thought, poor sods! The trauma that woman is doing to that little boy treating him like that - and the one in the buggy will no doubt get it next. What hope is there? Honestly? What future have these kids got coming from a home like that? A few might make it in life, but others are going to go on and have menial jobs, or no job at all, get married while young and breed some more and treat them the same. It's not surprising they turn to violence and hooliganism to provide a bit of a spark in their pitiful lives is it?

But it's not just these folks. I find it even more shocking when it's some middle aged bloke with a good job and lifestyle who is getting a thrill from this kind of behaviour. I just think they are sick in the head and worse than the other kids who've fallen into this because of the terrible background they've had.
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I'll bet the bastards have tattoos aswell :(
 
BigBed said:
There's no real difference than there ever has been to be fair, your eather the type of person that will stand your ground and return whatever your dealt, or the person that walks/runs away, there has always been the 2 types of fans, no disrespect to anyone, were all different.
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Although you say, no disrespect to anyone it does sound as if you are insinuating that the second kind of person who 'walks/runs away' is not as good as the person who 'stands his ground'. I beg to differ, you are either someone who is up for a fight or someone who just wants to go to a game of football, watch it, maybe even chat to the opposition fans and go home.
 

I think a portion of society has moved on generally from a desperate need to prove that they're "hard". Some people complain about younger generations being "soft". I think it comes down to a realisation of how stupid violence for violence's sake is. However, there will always be an element who do go down that route. Thankfully, it seems to be getting smaller.
 
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