Hamer

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Bergen Blade said:
It would be nice to see Hamer tried in a deeper and more central role.

Norwood wasn't the worst performer yesterday, but a midfield of him and Souza lacks dynamism and creativity. I worry that Hecky will fall into the same trap that Wilder did, a reluctance to make more than cosmetic changes to the tactics. Fleck is on his way back now; will we see him brought into the starting line up before Hamer is trusted to play centrally?
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Bu we might lose by......damn it Hecky...CHANGE THE LINE UP, YOU HAVE 2 FRIKIN WEEKS. IF NOT, GO. JUST GO
 

DronnieBlade said:
Let me attempt to define the “average” supporter I speak of. Based on 40 years of either travelling with / standing with / sitting with.

You’ve got your 20 somethings. Not always the case but nonetheless to a very large extent, so far coked up off their tits by the time they get through the turnstiles that it is difficult to accept they are aware of which planet they are on, never mind having the foggiest fucking idea of what is going on out there on the grass, why this is so, and not the slightest clue of what good looks like.

Funnily enough, and no doubt due to FIFA, Football manager, PES and anything else that they get up to on a lab top other than cleaning the Jizz from the keyboard, they are ALL experts on the beautiful game we pay to watch.

These forums are awash with such types.

Then you have the older brigade. The 60+ mob.

The gerritforrad, stop passing it sideways, put it in mixer types. You know who you are. Those that cheer when ANY of our players win a header that immediately turns over possession. Completely oblivious to this plain and simple fact. It doesn’t matter cos he won header so lets applaud anyway 😂.

FACT of it is there are some folks that will have a higher level of understanding of what is going on out there on the grass, and more importantly, why this is so.

Haven’t the foggiest, and frankly don’t care, where I could possibly be on this particular spectrum.

If you are coked up off your tits, or clap like a performing seal when we lose possession, please understand where you might actually sit on aforementioned spectrum !

UTB
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That's an interesting view.
Where are you on the "spectrum"🤔
 
DronnieBlade said:
Let me attempt to define the “average” supporter I speak of. Based on 40 years of either travelling with / standing with / sitting with.

You’ve got your 20 somethings. Not always the case but nonetheless to a very large extent, so far coked up off their tits by the time they get through the turnstiles that it is difficult to accept they are aware of which planet they are on, never mind having the foggiest fucking idea of what is going on out there on the grass, why this is so, and not the slightest clue of what good looks like.

Funnily enough, and no doubt due to FIFA, Football manager, PES and anything else that they get up to on a lab top other than cleaning the Jizz from the keyboard, they are ALL experts on the beautiful game we pay to watch.

These forums are awash with such types.

Then you have the older brigade. The 60+ mob.

The gerritforrad, stop passing it sideways, put it in mixer types. You know who you are. Those that cheer when ANY of our players win a header that immediately turns over possession. Completely oblivious to this plain and simple fact. It doesn’t matter cos he won header so lets applaud anyway 😂.

FACT of it is there are some folks that will have a higher level of understanding of what is going on out there on the grass, and more importantly, why this is so.

Haven’t the foggiest, and frankly don’t care, where I could possibly be on this particular spectrum.

If you are coked up off your tits, or clap like a performing seal when we lose possession, please understand where you might actually sit on aforementioned spectrum !

UTB
Click to expand...
Fuck
Where do us > 60 crack addicted, performing ocean mammals
DronnieBlade said:
Let me attempt to define the “average” supporter I speak of. Based on 40 years of either travelling with / standing with / sitting with.

You’ve got your 20 somethings. Not always the case but nonetheless to a very large extent, so far coked up off their tits by the time they get through the turnstiles that it is difficult to accept they are aware of which planet they are on, never mind having the foggiest fucking idea of what is going on out there on the grass, why this is so, and not the slightest clue of what good looks like.

Funnily enough, and no doubt due to FIFA, Football manager, PES and anything else that they get up to on a lab top other than cleaning the Jizz from the keyboard, they are ALL experts on the beautiful game we pay to watch.

These forums are awash with such types.

Then you have the older brigade. The 60+ mob.

The gerritforrad, stop passing it sideways, put it in mixer types. You know who you are. Those that cheer when ANY of our players win a header that immediately turns over possession. Completely oblivious to this plain and simple fact. It doesn’t matter cos he won header so lets applaud anyway 😂.

FACT of it is there are some folks that will have a higher level of understanding of what is going on out there on the grass, and more importantly, why this is so.

Haven’t the foggiest, and frankly don’t care, where I could possibly be on this particular spectrum.

If you are coked up off your tits, or clap like a performing seal when we lose possession, please understand where you might actually sit on aforementioned spectrum !

UTB
Click to expand...
Fuck
Where does that leave a 62 year old, crack addled, McBurnie appreciating, performing sea mammal, computer geek onanist?

Should I find summat else to do every Satdi ?
 
Bar his 2 goals, can anyone tell me anything he’s done?

I don’t remember a good pass / shot / passage of play?
 
Bladezz said:
Bar his 2 goals, can anyone tell me anything he’s done?

I don’t remember a good pass / shot / passage of play?
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As someone who was very excited about this signing he’s been extremely poor. Constantly gives away possession. Always looking for the Hollywood ball and forcing it when not on. On current showing he’s miles away from prem quality.
 
SUFCinks said:
As someone who was very excited about this signing he’s been extremely poor. Constantly gives away possession. Always looking for the Hollywood ball and forcing it when not on. On current showing he’s miles away from prem quality.
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That may be true but don't you find it odd that all these decent players we purchase (for example Hamer, Anel, McAtee and Bogle) all turn to shit within a short space of time when our '' skilled trainers'' try to develop them?
 
It's really difficult to criticise individuals when we're in this mess.

Put Hamer or McAtee into a confident side seeing plenty of the ball and they likely shine. Our system is disjointed and everybody's hiding on the pitch. There's no platform from which to show good form.

We could do with him scoring a handful more goals so he attracts a buyer in the Summer. Otherwise, I'm not sure how we raise the finances to be competitive next season.
Nobody's coming in for Anel or Souza on these showings. Everyone else is too injury prone to court serious money.
 
Signing an immobile lump like Souza and no solid LCM has fucked up his (our) chances significantly

He must be wondering what he's let himself in for because at this rate we're giving him no platform to earn a move to another PL club. He might be stuck with us. Much like Anel - though he only has himself to blame. At least this could benefit us next season

For what it's worth I think playing Hamer RCM with Baldock there gives him his best chance
 
singaporeblade said:
That may be true but don't you find it odd that all these decent players we purchase (for example Hamer, Anel, McAtee and Bogle) all turn to shit within a short space of time when our '' skilled trainers'' try to develop them?
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Absolutely
 
CaptainMorgans said:
It's really difficult to criticise individuals when we're in this mess.

Put Hamer or McAtee into a confident side seeing plenty of the ball and they likely shine. Our system is disjointed and everybody's hiding on the pitch. There's no platform from which to show good form.

We could do with him scoring a handful more goals so he attracts a buyer in the Summer. Otherwise, I'm not sure how we raise the finances to be competitive next season.
Nobody's coming in for Anel or Souza on these showings. Everyone else is too injury prone to court serious money.
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We get the £20m for archer back. They'll be a few released hopefully (some should have been in the summer) we only sold ramsdale the last time. We haven't spent stupid money this time and we aren't having 18 months with no stadium income before relegation. Financially we 'should' be ok.
 
singaporeblade said:
That may be true but don't you find it odd that all these decent players we purchase (for example Hamer, Anel, McAtee and Bogle) all turn to shit within a short space of time when our '' skilled trainers'' try to develop them?
Click to expand...

Not really. I think our coaching staff have done an excellent job at improving players hitherto.
Look at how far they've brought on Anel, Berge, Ndiaye, Doyle, McAtee, Norwood etc.

We're out of our depth at this level though.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
It's really difficult to criticise individuals when we're in this mess.

Put Hamer or McAtee into a confident side seeing plenty of the ball and they likely shine. Our system is disjointed and everybody's hiding on the pitch. There's no platform from which to show good form.

We could do with him scoring a handful more goals so he attracts a buyer in the Summer. Otherwise, I'm not sure how we raise the finances to be competitive next season.
Nobody's coming in for Anel or Souza on these showings. Everyone else is too injury prone to court serious money.
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We’ve seen that a promoted team can survive if it stays together and is augmented. But this time we’re asking a whole bunch of inexperienced players to form a new team on the fly against far superior opposition. It’s near impossible.

I’m not buying that the players we’ve signed are rubbish. They’re not. None of them are. The fact they can’t walk into this environment and thrive is entirely predictable.

So the challenge for this season is to keep things respectable, keep the dressing room together and try to get a few players to stand up. I doubt the manager can survive it but somehow our promising players must.
 

unitedbhoy said:
Are we playing him in his proper position?

I might be wrong but I always got the impression at Cov he was a box to box midfielder who drove forward with the ball from deep?

We seem to be playing him as a 10 or wide player.
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Last season, he played around 60% of his games as one of the double pivot, usually on the right. In the other 40%, he played across a flat 3 in midfield, either LCM, RCM or CM. He never started in any kind of attacking role either behind the striker or on the wing.

For me, Hamer's best position was what we all thought Berge's best position should have been - next to a defensive (Souza) or playmaking (Norwood) partner in a double pivot to make those ball carrying runs forward you mention (this was his trademark at Coventry). The problem is, as we discovered last time we got promoted, we're not really good enough to only have two in midfield when playing 5 at the back (which is why the 'Duffy role' was repaced with Lundstram).

Last time (19/20), we had a perfectly balanced midfield of Fleck, Norwood and Lundstram. This season, we've also reverted to 3 in midfield, but we've got a perfectly unbalanced midfield of Norwood, Souza and Hamer, none of which really know where they're supposed to be. Hamer can play LCM no problem, but neither Norwood or Souza are RCMs. Not signing O'Brien looks like a major error now (I wonder if we thought it wasn't necessary with Fleck's new contract?)

Now we're not even playing with 5 at the back anymore, Hamer is finding himself playing in McAtee's opposite position, somewhere he's never played before, to accommodate Norwood and Souza in the double pivot. The problem we have if we play 4231, is that we don't really have the players for the '3' section, unless we play Slimane, McAtee and Traore there, and Hamer and one of Souza or Norwood in the pivot behind them. But that's relying on development players and leaves more experienced players on the bench. I suppose this fixes itself when McBurnie comes back and we play more of a 442, but that still pushes Hamer to RW (unless Traore can play there?)

I think any formation we try, either with 5 or 4 at the back, is going to be really unbalanced because we just don't have the players to make it work like we have in the past, and unfortunately for Hamer, it means he'll continue to be played in an unnatural position
 
Colombia Blade said:
Last season, he played around 60% of his games as one of the double pivot, usually on the right. In the other 40%, he played across a flat 3 in midfield, either LCM, RCM or CM. He never started in any kind of attacking role either behind the striker or on the wing.

For me, Hamer's best position was what we all thought Berge's best position should have been - next to a defensive (Souza) or playmaking (Norwood) partner in a double pivot to make those ball carrying runs forward you mention (this was his trademark at Coventry). The problem is, as we discovered last time we got promoted, we're not really good enough to only have two in midfield when playing 5 at the back (which is why the 'Duffy role' was repaced with Lundstram).

Last time (19/20), we had a perfectly balanced midfield of Fleck, Norwood and Lundstram. This season, we've also reverted to 3 in midfield, but we've got a perfectly unbalanced midfield of Norwood, Souza and Hamer, none of which really know where they're supposed to be. Hamer can play LCM no problem, but neither Norwood or Souza are RCMs. Not signing O'Brien looks like a major error now (I wonder if we thought it wasn't necessary with Fleck's new contract?)

Now we're not even playing with 5 at the back anymore, Hamer is finding himself playing in McAtee's opposite position, somewhere he's never played before, to accommodate Norwood and Souza in the double pivot. The problem we have if we play 4231, is that we don't really have the players for the '3' section, unless we play Slimane, McAtee and Traore there, and Hamer and one of Souza or Norwood in the pivot behind them. But that's relying on development players and leaves more experienced players on the bench. I suppose this fixes itself when McBurnie comes back and we play more of a 442, but that still pushes Hamer to RW (unless Traore can play there?)

I think any formation we try, either with 5 or 4 at the back, is going to be really unbalanced because we just don't have the players to make it work like we have in the past, and unfortunately for Hamer, it means he'll continue to be played in an unnatural position
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I hope we try Hamer with Souza in central midfield soon. I'd try wing backs in the wide midfield roles, probably Bogle and Larouci. McAtee as a number 10 behind Archer. I think that would add mobility, energy and pace.

There are weaknesses in such a side obviously - lack of height/aerial ability is one - but we have to become competitive.
 
We re-signed Norwood, signed Davies, bought Hamer and Souza. That's 4 DMs (🤯 on the planning but anyway). Hamer is the best player in that role from that group. So we play him in any position except the one dominating the ball, to accommodate lesser players

giphy-11.gif
 
I think we’ve ‘done a Berge’ again and bought what should be a very good player and played him out of position. Either that or he’s not arsed or can’t play well outside of Coventry!
 
Houston_Blade said:
I think we’ve ‘done a Berge’ again and bought what should be a very good player and played him out of position. Either that or he’s not arsed or can’t play well outside of Coventry!
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Hecky's top five reasons for not playing him in central midfield yesterday:

  1. Following the loss of Egan and Basham we lack leaders and experience, so he thought Norwood was required
  2. On the day we wanted to play a man marking system, where midfielders had to be disciplined to mark specific opponents. Hecky thought Hamer wouldn't be suitable for such a role.
  3. Arsenal have fast defenders. Hecky thought we would be unable to get in behind them, so scrapped pace and went for the shooting ability of Brewster, Hamer and Slimane, hoping something would drop for them.
  4. Norwood is decent at clearing corners at the first post. We're so vulnerable at set pieces that anyone who can get his head to a ball is helpful.
  5. Hecky still hopes Hamer's technical ability means he can adapt to attacking roles for us
 
Bergen Blade said:
Hecky's top five reasons for not playing him in central midfield yesterday:

  1. Following the loss of Egan and Basham we lack leaders and experience, so he thought Norwood was required
  2. On the day we wanted to play a man marking system, where midfielders had to be disciplined to mark specific opponents. Hecky thought Hamer wouldn't be suitable for such a role.
  3. Arsenal have fast defenders. Hecky thought we would be unable to get in behind them, so scrapped pace and went for the shooting ability of Brewster, Hamer and Slimane, hoping something would drop for them.
  4. Norwood is decent at clearing corners at the first post. We're so vulnerable at set pieces that anyone who can get his head to a ball is helpful.
  5. Hecky still hopes Hamer's technical ability means he can adapt to attacking roles for us
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All valid points, however if you buy a player who is good in a position, you tend to get the best out of them if you play them there.
 
for a start norwood shouldnt be in the starting 11 hes gone at this level ponderous and gives possesion away every other pass hamer is much better than hes showing just now but doesnt look comfortable where hes being asked to play
 
Bergen Blade said:
I hope we try Hamer with Souza in central midfield soon. I'd try wing backs in the wide midfield roles, probably Bogle and Larouci. McAtee as a number 10 behind Archer. I think that would add mobility, energy and pace.

There are weaknesses in such a side obviously - lack of height/aerial ability is one - but we have to become competitive.
Click to expand...
Wes

Baldock Trusty Robinson Thomas

Bogle Souza Hamer Larouci

McAtee

Archer


Something like that? If so I agree, Bogle and Larouci aren't bad going forward and it gives our full backs some defensive help maybe.
 
I can see Hamer being just like Berge, whose best position was always the one we didn't just play him in.
 
Carlton Blade said:
We re-signed Norwood, signed Davies, bought Hamer and Souza. That's 4 DMs (🤯 on the planning but anyway). Hamer is the best player in that role from that group. So we play him in any position except the one dominating the ball, to accommodate lesser players

View attachment 173701
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We need to arrive at a half decent midfield three.

That way, with the squad we have we can alternative between 3-5-2 and 4-3-3.

We actually have options out wide for a club who don’t play wingers historically.

I’d go something like this:

Wes
Baldock Trusty Robinson Larouci
Hamer Souza Osborn*
Traore Archer McAtee

Desperately lacking a second number 8 on the left but for now, needs must.

At least the forward line has some pace. For once we have that and seem not to be able to use it.
 
Champagneblade said:
We need to arrive at a half decent midfield three.

That way, with the squad we have we can alternative between 3-5-2 and 4-3-3.

We actually have options out wide for a club who don’t play wingers historically.

I’d go something like this:

Wes
Baldock Trusty Robinson Larouci
Hamer Souza Osborn*
Traore Archer McAtee

Desperately lacking a second number 8 on the left but for now, needs must.

At least the forward line has some pace. For once we have that and seem not to be able to use it.
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Hamer isn't an 8. We can't keep possession or start attacks. Get him central and let him attempt to dictate. Souza isn't anywhere near good enough to warrant asking Hamer to just fit in. Honestly, we may as well have just kept Arblaster and spent the money elsewhere
 
It's amazing the further into this season we get how perceptions of Berge improve. We sold one of our best players, we kept playing him out of position etc. A handful of good performances for the leghth of time he was here was the reality. I don't buy excuses oh he is playing out of position etc. Yes you can be better in one position but you are a professional athlete who has the required skill to play professionally and the difference between positions is narrow.
The game is even more fluid than the past. Poor performances are less about where you are playing and more about motivation or morale.

Hamer has the ability to be a good player for us. The problem now is marble is on the floor both individually and collectively.
 

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