From love to hate

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As part of your academic exercise Ball_Sup (Phil) maybe you should discuss those of previous generations who attended both grounds.

I had uncles who would call themselves Unitedites (Blades and Owls wasn't a thing even in the 70s) who would go to S6 when we were playing away and other relatives who were Wednesdayites who would do the Lane when we were at home. The rivalry wasn't as fierce as it is now and certainly not at all the exclusive, tribal thing it has now become. Identifying when that began to happen will probably coincide with the 'hateful' chanting/songs.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
As part of your academic exercise Ball_Sup (Phil) maybe you should discuss those of previous generations who attended both grounds.

I had uncles who would call themselves Unitedites (Blades and Owls wasn't a thing even in the 70s) who would go to S6 when we were playing away and other relatives who were Wednesdayites who would do the Lane when we were at home. The rivalry wasn't as fierce as it is now and certainly not at all the exclusive, tribal thing it has now become. Identifying when that began to happen will probably coincide with the 'hateful' chanting/songs.
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My Dad used to take me to the First Team at Bramall Lane one week, then the Reserves (Central League) the next. The only break in that routine was to take me to a game at Hillsborough on Easter Weekend - Friday, Saturday, Monday - whatever fitted with Utd's fixture. He once took us to a random SWFC Reserve game at Hillsborough, in order to call into the Ticket Office to Blag a "Home End" ticket for the forthcoming Derby.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
My Dad used to take me to the First Team at Bramall Lane one week, then the Reserves (Central League) the next. The only break in that routine was to take me to a game at Hillsborough on Easter Weekend - Friday, Saturday, Monday - whatever fitted with Utd's fixture. He once took us to a random SWFC Reserve game at Hillsborough, in order to call into the Ticket Office to Blag a "Home End" ticket for the forthcoming Derby.
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That was sort of my routine. When I first started to attend it was Saturday afternoons to watch the reserve team. When I was deemed old enough I graduated to 1st team games. Then it would be central league one Saturday, 1st team the next with a few away games as I got older. One of my uncles offered to take me to Hillsborough, but I think Dad had decided I was destined for S2. I think there was a family version of the Harry Potter Sorting Hat, because there is a mixture in the family, though predominantly of the red persuasion.
 
brownie said:
I know of two different types of Wednesdayite.

The first is the more sensible variety who you can enjoy a friendship with and people you can sensible debate with, as well as some quality piss taking.

The second one is the oafish idiot who can barely string a coherent sentence together, can only communicate with threats and acts of intimidation, and whose primary method of communication is screeching WAWAW at frequent opportunities.

I prefer to engage with them on what ever level three are.
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.. that don’t go to games ( first one)
i can honestly say i have one pig mate (who’s not that into it tbh) and worked with one who was decent
that’s it :/
 
super_pig said:
.. that don’t go to games ( first one)
i can honestly say i have one pig mate (who’s not that into it tbh) and worked with one who was decent
that’s it :/
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The other Friday I went out for my Friday night tipple with my Wednesday season ticket holding ladyfriend (I’m on a mission to educate here), we visited the Commercial in Chapeltown (an outstanding hostelry serving an outstanding range of real ales, wine and spirits). I saw an old Wednesday supporting mate I’ve been friends with for 25 years, and we began chiding each other like we have for years, as I began admiring how massive they was, asking when they would be CL bound and trying to decide if Hillsborough needed an extra 2 or 3 theirs when it got expanded to accommodate their massive fan base. My mate and ladyfriend started trotting out nonsense about me being obsessed with the pigs, and never stopping droning about the events of 24th September 2017. It was all well and good as I was enjoying a few drinks with friends and enjoying the banter.

Then the second sort of Wednesdayite overheard snippets of the conversation, came storming over, irate and angry with some of my comments and with the exciting offer to resolve his consternation by having a fist fight outside with me.
 
Every football club has roughly the same proportion of diamond blokes & arseholes. That's how it works. Including Sheffield Wednesday & Sheffield United.
My "least favourite" Blades are the ones who be like....

I have never met, nor spoken to, nor passed in the street any "pigs". Despite that, I can guarantee to you that they are all, to a man/woman the worst scum on the earth. If you disagree with that, you are obviously a "pig" as well. Every "pig" is ignorant. For example, they won't speak to you, nor pass you in the street.
 
Pinchy said:
“Ha Ha said the Clown” was released in 1967. It rapidly became “Ha ha Alan Brown, John Ritchie’s a Clown” etc...

Well before Tommy Fucking Tynan.
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Pinchy
What do you understand the story to be behind the Iron Lung lyrics?
 
Pinchy said:
“Ha Ha said the Clown” was released in 1967. It rapidly became “Ha ha Alan Brown, John Ritchie’s a Clown” etc...

Well before Tommy Fucking Tynan.
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Different choon, innit bruv.

And weren't Manfred Mann singing about a comedian rather than a painted buffoon?
 
Of course all fans sang Yellow Submarine in 68 citing their respective colours. It worked particularly well for the Pigs who were able to both rhyme and scan ‘friends are all aboard’ with ‘Jim McCalliog and David Ford’. A rare example of porcine intelligence.
 

The first real hate song I remember hearing was not against other fans but the police , in the following circumstances:-

In 1966 a London criminal named Harry Roberts and an accomplice shot and killed 3 police officers . After the shooting, Roberts went on the run and avoided capture for over 3 months. Just after he was caught , we played Man U at the Lane and a large group of their fans occupied the kop end of John St. Terrace .

Before kick off , they started singing to the tune " Merrily We Roll Along " :-

" Harry Roberts he's our friend
He's our friend , he's our friend
Harry Roberts he's our friend
He kills coppers "

Shamefully, some Blades fans joined in . I was shocked and the memory of the incident has stayed with me to this day .
 
brownie said:
I know of two different types of Wednesdayite.

The first is the more sensible variety who you can enjoy a friendship with and people you can sensible debate with, as well as some quality piss taking.

The second one is the oafish idiot who can barely string a coherent sentence together, can only communicate with threats and acts of intimidation, and whose primary method of communication is screeching WAWAW at frequent opportunities.

I prefer to engage with them on what ever level three are.
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Mrs Pinchy, whose knowledge of football is equivalent to my command of Mandarin Chinese, can usually tell within five minutes of meeting whether someone is a Blade or Pig. She says they are ‘just different’. She also believes (without any prejudice at all against such persons) that they have an abnormal number of ginger-haired fans.
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
The first real hate song I remember hearing was not against other fans but the police , in the following circumstances:-

In 1966 a London criminal named Harry Roberts and an accomplice shot and killed 3 police officers . After the shooting, Roberts went on the run and avoided capture for over 3 months. Just after he was caught , we played Man U at the Lane and a large group of their fans occupied the kop end of John St. Terrace .

Before kick off , they started singing to the tune " Merrily We Roll Along " :-

" Harry Roberts he's our friend
He's our friend , he's our friend
Harry Roberts he's our friend
He kills coppers "

Shamefully, some Blades fans joined in . I was shocked and the memory of the incident has stayed with me to this day .
Click to expand...

Sadly Blades fans sang that towards Police Officers on crowd duty on several occasions.
 
Pinchy said:
Of course all fans sang Yellow Submarine in 68 citing their respective colours. It worked particularly well for the Pigs who were able to both rhyme and scan ‘friends are all aboard’ with ‘Jim McCalliog and David Ford’. A rare example of porcine intelligence.
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Apologies for deviation from the thread, but I met Jim McCalliog sometime in the early 90s, I think he was manager at Halifax back then. Got talking about his time at Hillsborough and he was quite scathing about some, especially Marshall and Williams (managers I think) and one or two players of the era.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Apologies for deviation from the thread, but I met Jim McCalliog sometime in the early 90s, I think he was manager at Halifax back then. Got talking about his time at Hillsborough and he was quite scathing about some, especially Marshall and Williams (managers I think) and one or two players of the era.
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I think by far the best threads on here are those that deviate unexpectedly and rapidly.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Ahh, a rather convoluted explanation of the ripple effect. Blade and an Owl in a room arguing the toss, how do you get them to stop? Stick a leeds fan in the room and they'll gang up on dirty. How do you stop that argument? Bring in a Lancastrian, Yorkshire together. How do you resolve that? Introduce a southerner, soft twats. And how do you resolve that? Here comes Johnny foreigner.

Without getting all Desmond Morris on this, the need to be social animals makes people seek out similar and thus alienating the different.
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Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. I remember getting nicked at Blackburn many years ago. My dad said 'Why do you young 'uns always have to fight? Mods. Rockers. Teds. Skins...'

I reminded him that - when he was my (then) age, 'You had World War 2.'
 
Pinchy said:
Mrs Pinchy, whose knowledge of football is equivalent to my command of Mandarin Chinese,
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I bet the weary lady knows that Monty is a traffic cone, Dave was a dinosaur and Morgs and Ironside are Bladey crap. She must hear it all the time, when her near-lunatic husband has another rant.

Over the years I can imagine she has perfected the sympathetic nod and "yes dear".

Poor woman.....
 
LondonRoad said:
"Sheffield Wednesday's f****d it up again!" at many a home game from about 1977, followed by a cheer as the scoreboard man changed the latest score relating to wednesday's match.
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When Jack Charlton managed Wednesday it was a more-specific, "Jackie Charlton's fucked it up again," which I think is an interesting deviation.
 
Walking down Shoreham street
Swingin’ a chain,
Went up to a pig fan
Asked his name
Kicked him in the bollocks
And kicked him in the head
Now that pig fan is dead ⚔️
 
itsinyerblood said:
Foxy, can you please delete this piece of bad taste. Clearly someone who hasn't the wherewithal to know what is and isn't acceptable.
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itsinyerblood
If that is tongue in cheek, sorry, I missed it.
I posed the original question of when did chants move from a love of United to a hatred of Wednesday.
103SecondsOfMagic
is merely adding to the understanding of that question. Not necessarily subscribing to the sentiments of the song.
Foxy
of course, happy to see you do what you think is necessary
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
itsinyerblood
If that is tongue in cheek, sorry, I missed it.
I posed the original question of when did chants move from a love of United to a hatred of Wednesday.
103SecondsOfMagic
is merely adding to the understanding of that question. Not necessarily subscribing to the sentiments of the song.
Foxy
of course, happy to see you do what you think is necessary
Click to expand...

Thing is Phil, I'm generally on the side of allowing most things the opportunity to have their 15 seconds. I've just listened to a play on Radio 4 about the Bradford fire where 56 died. Very touching and based on transcripts of those who attended, so I'm probably a bit sensitive to talk of death. My apologies, and of course it shouldn't be denied it's moment.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Thing is Phil, I'm generally on the side of allowing most things the opportunity to have their 15 seconds. I've just listened to a play on Radio 4 about the Bradford fire where 56 died. Very touching and based on transcripts of those who attended, so I'm probably a bit sensitive to talk of death. My apologies, and of course it shouldn't be denied it's moment.
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I understand. My thread has given the opportunity for hate songs to be aired. For what I'll argue are innocent reasons. But, aired nevertheless. I'm not out to upset anyone. I'm working towards a Blog post or Fanzine article along the lines of....

Why all the Hate, where did it come from?

I'll stay off it now. Happy for the Thread to be closed.
 

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I understand. My thread has given the opportunity for hate songs to be aired. For what I'll argue are innocent reasons. But, aired nevertheless. I'm not out to upset anyone. I'm working towards a Blog post or Fanzine article along the lines of....

Why all the Hate, where did it come from?

I'll stay off it now. Happy for the Thread to be closed.
Click to expand...

My overreaction Phil, don't allow your research to be wasted because I acted so hastily.

Keep on with acquiring this info mate. Historically it has a place, so once more, ignore my reaction.
 
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