Four bids

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Eric Cartman said:
You shout a lot, I’d advise yoga.

I know full well what I’m talking about chief, sounds like you’re getting confused though.

It’s not that we can’t afford Hogans wages for example - he’s just on x amount more than our top earner this meaning we’d have disparity again by paying him that much. It might upset that amazing team spirit we’ve got right now.

Top championship strikers earn more than what we’re willing to pay them. So we will have to break our precious wage structure to sign them - if we aren’t willing to do that why not set our aims a bit lower like we were before? Why chase unattainable targets and waste time?
It’s not that we can’t afford it we have a large percentage of the 12mil we received for Brooks to reinvest.

Surely you’re not too dense to understand that. Then again...
Click to expand...


The important part of that waffle is the “x” amount more part...as you have no idea, like most things.

But let’s out some meat on the bones of your waffle...let’s say...Fleck is the current highest earner. Would be a fair assumption.
Let’s say he’s on 15k a week now. Probably not far off.
It’s been frequently guessed Hogan is north of 30k a week. Double Fleck. Is his value double flecks, is he twice as important to the team? Is he fuck.

You can whine all you like about parity being bad, but it’s very likely that if you bring in one or maybe two players being paid double what everyone else is because THEY were told the maximum you can earn at United is £15k a week only a few months earlier you end up with Agents looking for bigger salaries for their client elsewhere as it takes the piss out of them.

So stop trying to be clever. You’re wasting your time as it’s beyond you.
Anyone on 30k a week is being paid over £1.5m a year.
Someone on half that...well I’m sure you can work the difference out.
Now consider the club loses...yes LOSES £4-6m a year...even AFTER selling players...how could it possibly justify raising wage ceilings for the players. You do it for one, then they all get more.
Suddenly Km isn’t having to find £2-3 m to keep the club afloat, it’s £4-6m and that’s easily done if we signed just 4 players on the bigger salaries!

So it’s simple. We won’t pay those wages because we cannot afford it.
 
Grizzly blade said:
The important part of that waffle is the “x” amount more part...as you have no idea, like most things.

But let’s out some meat on the bones of your waffle...let’s say...Fleck is the current highest earner. Would be a fair assumption.
Let’s say he’s on 15k a week now. Probably not far off.
It’s been frequently guessed Hogan is north of 30k a week. Double Fleck. Is his value double flecks, is he twice as important to the team? Is he fuck.

You can whine all you like about parity being bad, but it’s very likely that if you bring in one or maybe two players being paid double what everyone else is because THEY were told the maximum you can earn at United is £15k a week only a few months earlier you end up with Agents looking for bigger salaries for their client elsewhere as it takes the piss out of them.

So stop trying to be clever. You’re wasting your time as it’s beyond you.
Anyone on 30k a week is being paid over £1.5m a year.
Someone on half that...well I’m sure you can work the difference out.
Now consider the club loses...yes LOSES £4-6m a year...even AFTER selling players...how could it possibly justify raising wage ceilings for the players. You do it for one, then they all get more.
Suddenly Km isn’t having to find £2-3 m to keep the club afloat, it’s £4-6m and that’s easily done if we signed just 4 players on the bigger salaries!

So it’s simple. We won’t pay those wages because we cannot afford it.
Click to expand...
We have just bid 5.5 million for Martyn Waghorn. There’s plenty of money there brainiac.
 
And furthermore there are about 4 clubs in the championship running at a profit. Being a loss making club is what the championship means I’m afraid. It’s all about that gamble for the premier league.
 
We need to start shopping at an appropriate level, it seems to me that Wilder is walking around Waitrose with his Aldi tokens.

If we won't break our pay structure, then we need to be identifying talent in the lower leagues or abroad. Get in early and get the deal done.I'd rather take a chance on unproved potential with something to prove, than pay over the odds for a 30 something average Championship striker, out for one last payday.

Easier said than done I know, but this is where Paul Mitchell and his fellow scouts have to earn their money. This is the real test of their worth :(
 
Grizzly blade said:
The important part of that waffle is the “x” amount more part...as you have no idea, like most things.

But let’s out some meat on the bones of your waffle...let’s say...Fleck is the current highest earner. Would be a fair assumption.
Let’s say he’s on 15k a week now. Probably not far off.
It’s been frequently guessed Hogan is north of 30k a week. Double Fleck. Is his value double flecks, is he twice as important to the team? Is he fuck.

You can whine all you like about parity being bad, but it’s very likely that if you bring in one or maybe two players being paid double what everyone else is because THEY were told the maximum you can earn at United is £15k a week only a few months earlier you end up with Agents looking for bigger salaries for their client elsewhere as it takes the piss out of them.

So stop trying to be clever. You’re wasting your time as it’s beyond you.
Anyone on 30k a week is being paid over £1.5m a year.
Someone on half that...well I’m sure you can work the difference out.
Now consider the club loses...yes LOSES £4-6m a year...even AFTER selling players...how could it possibly justify raising wage ceilings for the players. You do it for one, then they all get more.
Suddenly Km isn’t having to find £2-3 m to keep the club afloat, it’s £4-6m and that’s easily done if we signed just 4 players on the bigger salaries!

So it’s simple. We won’t pay those wages because we cannot afford it.
Click to expand...

This is the absolute crux of the situation we find ourselves in unfortunately and is exactly what started the pigs downfall.

They had their top earners on around the 20K a week mark and then suddenly brought in Fletcher on 40K a week. Virtually overnight they had increased their wage bill to beyond a manageable limit without going up due to the knock on effect not just on their current players but on any players they wanted to sign as this was now the benchmark.

Forestfairy then demanded parity and went on strike to get it and just off the top of my head the following players followed - Winnall on 28k, Abdi on 30k, Rhodes on 45k, Reach on 30k, Boyd on 30k, Hooper on 40k. That's just for starters. I'm sure there were plenty of others via their agents knocking on the door and wanting to review their salary. A prime example of the knock on effect when you're trying to sign players is Winnall. On an absolute maximum of 8-10k at Barnsley but the pigs had to go to 28k to get him due to the salaries of their other strikers.

You see where i'm going with this? We absolutely have to increase our wage ceiling but this has to be done in a sensible manner that isn't going to ruin the club for years to come by putting players on huge salaries relative to the rest of the squad and the knock on effect this has.

This is why CW has had such a tough task this summer. We need quality but that comes at a price the vast majority of the time and it is becoming blatantly obvious that we are struggling to find "proven championship" players that would not completely knacker the wage harmony in the squad. I'm quite sure the senior players understand quality will potentially come in on a higher salary but it's when you're talking double the highest earner that problems will start. My personal view is we should have stuck to the absolute cream of League One. Yes they come with inflated transfer fees but would have fit into our wage structure and then supplemented with talented Premier League loanees.

Marriott is a prime example. I'd hazard a guess he'll outscore Waghorn at Derby and be on far less wages. Yes his transfer fee was probably high for someone who's not played at this level but quite sure wages wouldn't have been an issue. If we can't get Luke Freeman then why not Maddison as an alternative?
 

Ricky said:
Chasing targets we're never going to get (because wages) has been one of Wilder's biggest failings.
Click to expand...

But thankfully he got his Leonard and Holmes in the end. Must have wasted the best part of a year with them.
 
1889 said:
We need to start shopping at an appropriate level, it seems to me that Wilder is walking around Waitrose with his Aldi tokens.

If we won't break our pay structure, then we need to be identifying talent in the lower leagues or abroad. Get in early and get the deal done.I'd rather take a chance on unproved potential with something to prove, than pay over the odds for a 30 something average Championship striker, out for one last payday.

Easier said than done I know, but this is where Paul Mitchell and his fellow scouts have to earn their money. This is the real test of their worth :(
Click to expand...
The big potential lower league players are also out of our price range, were gambling on players below that bracket.

It's hard because everything screams scout the foreign market, but Wilder seemingly doesn't want that.
 
We won't sign anyone before Thursday, usually by now there's one or two names flying around. Transfers take time, especially how we try and do them 'value for money'. We will receive a club statement telling us about the loan possibilities, then we will sign Jonathan Forte with a view to permanent.
 
Eric Cartman said:
We have just bid 5.5 million for Martyn Waghorn. There’s plenty of money there brainiac.
Click to expand...


Really...I hadn’t noticed that!!
Not your crowning glory this...let’s say Wilder was given a TOTAL budget of £40m for playing staff this season...that’s total. Not just fees, but wages too.
So he can either pay everyone more money...that is apparently a good idea according to many.
He could buy one player for £40m and have no money left for wages.
Or...and this is the radical bit...he considers what wages he has going out, takes that away from the total and takes the rest to divide between fees and additional salary for new players

So for the benefit of the mentally challenged, say he likes the look of let’s say Martin Waghorn. He decides to put together a package costing £6m for this season...and has to jiggle the figures about accordingly. He hopes Ipswich might take £4m so he can meet wage demands...but then when they demand more he has to try negotiate with the player.
Oh...and he also needs defenders, midfielders and a keeper too!!

Sounds simple when you have a mouse to do all the work for you.
 
Upton_Blade said:
This is the absolute crux of the situation we find ourselves in unfortunately and is exactly what started the pigs downfall.

They had their top earners on around the 20K a week mark and then suddenly brought in Fletcher on 40K a week. Virtually overnight they had increased their wage bill to beyond a manageable limit without going up due to the knock on effect not just on their current players but on any players they wanted to sign as this was now the benchmark.

Forestfairy then demanded parity and went on strike to get it and just off the top of my head the following players followed - Winnall on 28k, Abdi on 30k, Rhodes on 45k, Reach on 30k, Boyd on 30k, Hooper on 40k. That's just for starters. I'm sure there were plenty of others via their agents knocking on the door and wanting to review their salary. A prime example of the knock on effect when you're trying to sign players is Winnall. On an absolute maximum of 8-10k at Barnsley but the pigs had to go to 28k to get him due to the salaries of their other strikers.

You see where i'm going with this? We absolutely have to increase our wage ceiling but this has to be done in a sensible manner that isn't going to ruin the club for years to come by putting players on huge salaries relative to the rest of the squad and the knock on effect this has.

This is why CW has had such a tough task this summer. We need quality but that comes at a price the vast majority of the time and it is becoming blatantly obvious that we are struggling to find "proven championship" players that would not completely knacker the wage harmony in the squad. I'm quite sure the senior players understand quality will potentially come in on a higher salary but it's when you're talking double the highest earner that problems will start. My personal view is we should have stuck to the absolute cream of League One. Yes they come with inflated transfer fees but would have fit into our wage structure and then supplemented with talented Premier League loanees.

Marriott is a prime example. I'd hazard a guess he'll outscore Waghorn at Derby and be on far less wages. Yes his transfer fee was probably high for someone who's not played at this level but quite sure wages wouldn't have been an issue. If we can't get Luke Freeman then why not Maddison as an alternative?
Click to expand...

Completely agree. The problem with Freeman is that he'll be part of QPRs inflated wage structure. They'd probably sell to get the wages off their books but we'll not be able to match them.

My biggest fear is that we're going to spend the next 3 days chasing unrealistic players and miss out and then end up with a bodge and a couple of loans.

If we actually planned ahead and invested in an actual scouting network then it would alleviate this problem, but that's not going to happen whilst we have a 'xenophobic' (in terms of who he'll sign) manager who will continue to shop in the same tiny pool.

Add Gwion Edwards to Marriott. Could have potentially signed both for less than we claim to have bid for Waghorn.
 
Grizzly blade said:
Really...I hadn’t noticed that!!
Not your crowning glory this...let’s say Wilder was given a TOTAL budget of £40m for playing staff this season...that’s total. Not just fees, but wages too.
So he can either pay everyone more money...that is apparently a good idea according to many.
He could buy one player for £40m and have no money left for wages.
Or...and this is the radical bit...he considers what wages he has going out, takes that away from the total and takes the rest to divide between fees and additional salary for new players

So for the benefit of the mentally challenged, say he likes the look of let’s say Martin Waghorn. He decides to put together a package costing £6m for this season...and has to jiggle the figures about accordingly. He hopes Ipswich might take £4m so he can meet wage demands...but then when they demand more he has to try negotiate with the player.
Oh...and he also needs defenders, midfielders and a keeper too!!

Sounds simple when you have a mouse to do all the work for you.
Click to expand...
You need to work on your grammar, it’s terrible to read.

So - we’ve lost Evans, Holmes, Carruthers, Blackman, Donaldson, CCV, Wilson, Brooks, Hanson, soon to be Lavery who will all be decent earners. Top that with the 12 million we’re due to receive for Brooks.

That would more than cover the players we have already signed and then there’s 12 million left after that.

Right, come on then brainbox, if your suggestion is we shouldn’t be paying over the odds in wages for players because we’re making a loss (as are 20 of the 24...) why are we after players who will command high wages? Wasting valuable time for the laugh? They’re unattainable.
 
Freeman won't be on mega bucks at QPR.

They signed him for about 300k from Bristol City, at a time after they'd started cutting back.
 
Grizzly blade said:
The important part of that waffle is the “x” amount more part...as you have no idea, like most things.

But let’s out some meat on the bones of your waffle...let’s say...Fleck is the current highest earner. Would be a fair assumption.
Let’s say he’s on 15k a week now. Probably not far off.
It’s been frequently guessed Hogan is north of 30k a week. Double Fleck. Is his value double flecks, is he twice as important to the team? Is he fuck.

You can whine all you like about parity being bad, but it’s very likely that if you bring in one or maybe two players being paid double what everyone else is because THEY were told the maximum you can earn at United is £15k a week only a few months earlier you end up with Agents looking for bigger salaries for their client elsewhere as it takes the piss out of them.

So stop trying to be clever. You’re wasting your time as it’s beyond you.
Anyone on 30k a week is being paid over £1.5m a year.
Someone on half that...well I’m sure you can work the difference out.
Now consider the club loses...yes LOSES £4-6m a year...even AFTER selling players...how could it possibly justify raising wage ceilings for the players. You do it for one, then they all get more.
Suddenly Km isn’t having to find £2-3 m to keep the club afloat, it’s £4-6m and that’s easily done if we signed just 4 players on the bigger salaries!

So it’s simple. We won’t pay those wages because we cannot afford it.
Click to expand...
4-6mill eh ??
and brooksy went for.. and jack will go for..
do the maths same owd same owd
 
I'm late to the party tonight. Where's the Hogan talk resurrected from?
Surely Hogan, Gallagher and probably Freeman are all on bigger wages than Waghorn.
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
We won't sign anyone before Thursday, usually by now there's one or two names flying around. Transfers take time, especially how we try and do them 'value for money'. We will receive a club statement telling us about the loan possibilities, then we will sign Jonathan Forte with a view to permanent.
Click to expand...
So CW has to start shouting from the rooftops who he's trying to sign because the fans demand to know, it doesn't matter that he is alerting other clubs so they can start chasing the same player. By the way Forte was the player of the season at Notts County and was on the scoresheet again on Saturday for his new club Exeter.:tumbleweed:
 
From the pig end said:
I'm late to the party tonight. Where's the Hogan talk resurrected from?
Surely Hogan, Gallagher and probably Freeman are all on bigger wages than Waghorn.
Click to expand...

I guess Hogan may take a pay-cut for first team football. The question would be, how much of a pay-cut.
 
robbiez666 said:
I guess Hogan may take a pay-cut for first team football. The question would be, how much of a pay-cut.
Click to expand...
I personally think he was "Plan A" from the beginning. What's worrying is though we don't seem to talk wages until the final hurdle, shouldn't that be one of the first things you discuss!?
Depends on the player then I suppose, Villa apparently aren't deaperate for cash any more and nobody in this division throws money around for wages more than Villa.
It certainly seems that we are up against it.
 

Would just like to say that this is exactly what I warned of when some were calling for us to cash in on Brooks.

It's OK having the money in the bank. But doing something productive with it is another thing entirely. There's no guarantee we'll just use the money to make ourselves better. Because guess what these expensive players want.......... yes. They want their wages.

It narrows it down somewhat, doesn't it?

It's hard enough finding suitable players whose transfer fees we can afford. Then wages comes into it.

So it probably turns out that the players we sign after selling Brooks.... are players we could have signed anyway.
 
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