Fleck

[Harry's Game]

Anyone who’s watched us knows that Fleck and previously Coutts has an important defensive duty as well when those Centre Backs bomb forward,.

Exactly.

It’s one of the reasons our Midfield don’t score many goals.

 

[Pinchy]

The obvious that Fleck is clearly a very good player... works incredibly hard, creates space. Good enough for a solid prem club to want to pay money for him... Good enough for Chris Wilder to pick every single week.

But obvs you're entitled to your opinion

Misplaced and badly weighted passes. Lead feet. Lethargic. Left standing by quicker minds and feet running in behind him. One goal and three assists. Your boggled mind is twelve months behind reality, I fear.
So is West Ham’s. I decline to form views on what they think, preferring the evidence of my own trusty, non-boggled, non-starry, non-Bladey eyes.

 

[Pinchy]

No - he didn't.

I’ve just told you.

 

[Pinchy]

Anyone who’s watched us knows that Fleck and previously Coutts has an important defensive duty as well when those Centre Backs bomb forward, Dowell hasn’t got the discipline or Strength to do that, he’s the Duffy alternative.

As for replacements... tick tock.. Thursday is the 31st of January.

I know. You’re allowed to think and make plans before then. Just like West Ham apparently.

Dowell did very well in that position at Forest, despite numpties telling me otherwise. I saw him play.

Anyone who watches us now and sees what is happening rather than being stuck on a loop from last season would realise that the Flecker is failing miserably in his important defensive duties. Opponents with quicker minds and feet (Norwich a very recent example; Swansea another) are running into space behind him at will as he chugs willingly but hopelessly after them like a latter-day Montgomery.

 

[nopigfansintown]

For all those slating Vaulks as a possible replacement i'll repost the Sky Sports Power Rankings for the season to date that i posted on another thread last week.

Now i don't know if he'd be a good replacement or not as i haven't seen enough of him to make an opinion but you can't argue with the below chart as it's based on a lot of the stats and data similar to what Blades Analytics posts and has discussed on Sheffield Live.

United have shown interest in several players on that list which shows we are doing something right. Callum Robinson, Joe Lolley and Jake Cooper last season. Luke Freeman and Will Vaulks this season. It's easy to see why we're interested in Vaulks: he's Rotherham's key player and available on a free in the summer. If he's pants we'd just sell him for a big profit ala Evans and Leonard.

 

[zablade]

I know. You’re allowed to think and make plans before then. Just like West Ham apparently.

Dowell did very well in that position at Forest, despite numpties telling me otherwise. I saw him play.

Dowell played a Completely different role at Forest.

And just because you have said he played the Fleck role at Forest three times now doesn’t make it true, you’re thinking Beetlejuice

 

[S15Blade]

Misplaced and badly weighted passes. Lead feet. Lethargic. Left standing by quicker minds and feet running in behind him. One goal and three assists. Your boggled mind is twelve months behind reality, I fear.
So is West Ham’s. I decline to form views on what they think, preferring the evidence of my own trusty, non-boggled, non-starry, non-Bladey eyes.

Pen at Norwich... Didzy v Derby... sharp and Didzy goals v Blackburn
just 4 big moments off the top of my head in recent games that his been instrumental in

 

[metalblade]

It is a sad fact that Fleck this season has been a shadow of the Fleck from last season. His standards have dropped noticeably this season who knows why ? Maybe a move has been lined up for a while if we can get a replacement otherwise I think it is bullshit.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I see the loveable east end boys are after a midfielder from Celta Vigo too which makes the Fleck one even odder if all true

 

[Reedy1889]

Dowell always played attacking midfield for Forest. Could he be moulded into Fleck's position? I doubt it, based on his work rate and lack of aggression, but he might be a better bet than many who we could sign.




Not entirely sure what that's based on but it's a very interesting list. Callum Robinson stands out to me, still being on there despite being injured for the last 3 months.

He's not left footed but Jon Nolan could be one Wilder could mould into our version of Fleck. If the qualities needed are work rate and aggression.

Even though he's moved recently, I'd be surprised if

1, he wouldn't be interested in the move.
2, Ipswich wouldn't consider selling to raise a few funds for some last minute signings.

 

[Pinchy]

Dowell played a Completely different role at Forest.

And just because you have said he played the Fleck role at Forest three times now doesn’t make it true, you’re thinking Beetlejuice

Your problem is a clear and troubling tendency to believe you know what you’re talking about and an inability to learn from people who have been watching and understanding football for a great deal longer than you.

Playing a role or position does not require one to be a clone of the previous incumbent. You simply do it differently. Burton’s Hamlet was very different to Olivier’s, but it’s the same role.

I’m trying to help you here. Some response other than knee-jerk hostility and a little deference to the knowledge and experience of others would be a decent starting-point.

 

[zablade]

Pen at Norwich... Didzy v Derby... sharp and Didzy goals v Blackburn
just 4 big moments off the top of my head in recent games that his been instrumental in

Don’t come here quoting truth and facts.

 

[Pinchy]

It is a sad fact that Fleck this season has been a shadow of the Fleck from last season. His standards have dropped noticeably this season who knows why ? Maybe a move has been lined up for a while if we can get a replacement otherwise I think it is bullshit.

Thank Pele. Someone other than me lives in the present and sees the glaringly fucking obvious.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I did think he looked a tad less happy at the weekend while everyone else looked delighted. Maybe he’d been hoping to get the sock rather than Baldock...

View attachment 48830

View attachment 48831
View attachment 48832

I think it's more likely Madine got a hard on.

 

[zablade]

Your problem is a clear and troubling tendency to believe you know what you’re talking about and an inability to learn from people who have been watching and understanding football for a great deal longer than you.

Playing a role or position does not require one to be a clone of the previous incumbent. You simply do it differently. Burton’s Hamlet was very different to Olivier’s, but it’s the same role.

I’m trying to help you here. Some response other than knee-jerk hostility and a little deference to the knowledge and experience of others would be a decent starting-point.

You said three times he played the role at Forest Fleck played here.. he didn’t.. Fact.

Whatever waffle you come out with to hide that blatant false hood doesn’t wash.

And I have watched football for over 40 years man and boy so don’t patronise me thank you very much.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I’ve just told you.

Kieran Dowell was not a central midfielder at forest, he was an advanced attacking midfielder. He doesn't have the tenacity and aggression Fleck has in order to play that role.

He played central midfield - once - for Forest. Once as in 1 time. 1nce.

 

[Pinchy]

You said three times he played the role at Forest Fleck played here.. he didn’t.. Fact.

Whatever waffle you come out with to hide that blatant false hood doesn’t wash.

And I have watched football for over 40 years man and boy so don’t patronise me thank you very much.

You invite it I’m afraid. As expected you haven’t troubled to consider what I’ve just said, being all too anxious to jerk your knees into oblivion.

 

[Wards]

Why? He’s been poor this season, beyond a simple question of ‘form’. It’s been too long to make me think this is temporary. Maybe the offer itself will invigorate him?

It’s no good people discussing the issue on a false premise, namely the Fleck of previous seasons. For whatever reason he ain’t here. One of the main reasons (sadly there are many others) that it’s difficult to engage people (not you, you’re fine by me) in sensible debate on here is that they routinely see things as they would like them to be, not as they are.

For me it comes down to replacements. I’ve no doubt Dowell would do a good job there, he’s obviously a talented lad - and, as you’ve said, Flecks performances of late make that position almost up for grabs anyway. However, my issue is those who come in after him. Lundstram isn’t good enough and never will be, Coutts just isn’t there this season and can’t be relied upon to play 15 remaining games. I’m not convinced either are currently good enough to slot in for the odd game either - we’re still noticeably
weaker when either of them play. If Duffy is struggling/injured/tiring then Dowell is realistically the only like-for-like replacement...then you’re back to relying on Coutts and Lunny to fill in.

Guess my point is that yes, he’s not playing well but we can’t realistically source another top notch first team player to slot into a promotion chasing side within two/three days. Even then you’ve to get them up to speed and integrate them to how we play. Certainly not an easy task.

I’d certainly have few issues if he were to try Dowell in Flecks position but to sell him now would be far too risky IMO.

 

[Akinbiyi]

You should follow me more closely. Dowell, as I’ve said consistently.. Played there with great success for Forest..

Played there with great success? Why - did they win the 1 game he played there?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

If we want a nice short-term option for a left-sided midfielder, who would be able to fit into the club, likely available at low-cost, let me be the first to throw this can-of-worms into the debate...

 

[Ricky]

He's not left footed but Jon Nolan could be one Wilder could mould into our version of Fleck. If the qualities needed are work rate and aggression.

Even though he's moved recently, I'd be surprised if

1, he wouldn't be interested in the move.
2, Ipswich wouldn't consider selling to raise a few funds for some last minute signings.

Might be one to think about on the cheap, like Vaulks. Nolan seems to have better quality on the ball but hasn't pulled up many trees at Ipswich this season. But he's another one who might do well in our team. Vaulks would be a useful utility player but it's right that he sees out the season at Rotherham. So a bit like Leonard but on a free transfer.

 

[Pinchy]

Kieran Dowell was not a central midfielder at forest, he was an advanced attacking midfielder. He doesn't have the tenacity and aggression Fleck has in order to play that role.

See my Burton and Olivier analogy then change the habit of a lifetime and have a think.

Tufty thinks narrow labelling of midfielders is bollocks. He said so loud and clear. He said it ‘does his head in’. He wouldn’t agree with your analysis.

 

[Harry's Game]

You invite it I’m afraid. As expected you haven’t troubled to consider what I’ve just said, being all too anxious to jerk your knees into oblivion.

Well I read exactly what you said about Dowell at Forest and it’s untrue.

That is a fact and people are right to pull you up on it.

 

[Akinbiyi]

See my Burton and Olivier analogy then change the habit of a lifetime and have a think.

Tufty thinks narrow labelling of midfielders is bollocks. He said so loud and clear. He said it ‘does his head in’. He wouldn’t agree with your analysis.

Well it's funny how I've never seen Duffy deployed deeper or Norwood/Coutts/Fleck deployed further up.

PS - this the same Tufty that you said was a terrible appointment?

 

[Pinchy]

Played there with great success? Why - did they win the 1 game he played there?

View attachment 48847

This is what we’ve come to? Bonkers.

Just for the avoidance of doubt. Our manager, when he signed Dowell, clearly said he could play more than one position, including but not limited to, the so-called Duffy role.

If he’s reading this, you’re doing his head in. Midfielder. The clue is in the appellation. Anything else is Junior Computer Manager bollocks. Ask Tufty, not me.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Well it's funny how I've never seen Duffy deployed deeper or Norwood/Coutts/Fleck deployed further up.

PS - this the same Tufty that you said was a terrible appointment?

And the same Tufty who signed Gary Tuftyball Madine.
One and the same.

 

[Ricky]

How about this....


Hendo
Egan Stearman JOC
Baldock Coutts Dowell Stevens
Norwood
Sharp McGoldrick

 

[Blade for Sale]

See my Burton and Olivier analogy then change the habit of a lifetime and have a think.

Tufty thinks narrow labelling of midfielders is bollocks. He said so loud and clear. He said it ‘does his head in’. He wouldn’t agree with your analysis.

Burton and Olivier wouldn't have ever been cast on their own merits alone. They would have been cast partly with en eye on the other actors and the rapport and chemistry between them as a collective. As analogies go, it's among the poorest I've seen to be honest. Disappointing, you usually put a bit more work into your wind-ups than that.

 

[Pinchy]

And the same Tufty who signed Gary Tuftyball Madine.
One and the same.

You can play proper football perfectly well with a big centre-forward. I’ve always said so. Arsenal have had quite a few. The problem is lazy players taking the easy way out and simply launching it, thereby creating a scruffy aerial contest, rather than using the big man intelligently, playing it to feet or chest, making him favourite in a structured link-man role. Madine is more than just a big lump. He is a technically proficient centre-forward, like him or not.

 

[zablade]

How about this....


Hendo
Egan Stearman JOC
Baldock Coutts Dowell Stevens
Norwood
Sharp McGoldrick

Norwood doesn’t run with the ball or move enough to play there for me, he would inevitably drop deep to get on the ball leaving the top two isolated.

Coutts has looked way off it, I wouldn’t want rely on him this season, big pre season for him in the summer or that may be it for him here