Fan engagement legislation ... Protecting SUFC

[Snowflake]

All of the above. Football clubs shouldn't have owners, so any power given to fans is positive.

Really ? So then none would exist ! There has to be someone or some body that owns any professional club.
Fans trusts do a great job lower down the leagues: look at Exeter City.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Really ? So then none would exist ! There has to be someone or some body that owns any professional club.
Fans trusts do a great job lower down the leagues: look at Exeter City.

You know what I meant.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Really ? So then none would exist ! There has to be someone or some body that owns any professional club.
Fans trusts do a great job lower down the leagues: look at Exeter City.

Fan owned and rather successful Barcelona exist.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

So far, we've got most of the teams in the German Bundesliga, Barcelona, and I'll chuck in Real Madrid, as successful fan owned clubs. Despite the fact that it's impossible.

 

[tincan]

Who decides what area is key for the club owner or supporters? How will you know such consultation has have been fully addressed? To what level of satisfaction has to be achieved for a motion to be passed? How is this to be policed? What qualifies those who implement it and who pays for it? What redress is possible to deal with such transgressions and does the current legislation allow for it to be sustained? If the supporter’s group were politically inclined – either extreme right, left or religious how is that covered?
Football will attract the Dozy types and so its important to get such an initiative in place, but unless a viable structure is applied it wont work and may create more stagnation.

 

[alcoblade]

So far, we've got most of the teams in the German Bundesliga, Barcelona, and I'll chuck in Real Madrid, as successful fan owned clubs. Despite the fact that it's impossible.

Real Madrid and Barcelona mop up just about the entirety of TV money in Spain. Barcelona also nearly went bust, didn't they? Bayern Munich have some big investor / shareholders.

I'm really not sure most of these examples are at all relevant to clubs like us.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Real Madrid and Barcelona mop up just about the entirety of TV money in Spain. Barcelona also nearly went bust, didn't they? Bayern Munich have some big investor / shareholders.

I'm really not sure most of these examples are at all relevant to clubs like us.

Real Madrid & Barcelona mop up just about the entirety of TV money in Spain which, as they are fan owned, the fan appointed Board & Chair decide how to spend on the fan's behalf.

Bayern München have some big investors. As they are fan owned, the fan appointed Board & Chair decide how to spend the money those investors invest on the fan's behalf.

 

[alcoblade]

Real Madrid & Barcelona mop up just about the entirety of TV money in Spain which, as they are fan owned, the fan appointed Board & Chair decide how to spend on the fan's behalf.

Bayern München have some big investors. As they are fan owned, the fan appointed Board & Chair decide how to spend the money those investors invest on the fan's behalf.

The point (where we started) being is, all that would happen of were fan owned is that we'd have to either spend "£10M" less a season, or the fans would have to find it from somewhere else.

We have nothing like the outside resources that these clubs have.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The point (where we started) being is, all that would happen of were fan owned is that we'd have to either spend "£10M" less a season, or the fans would have to find it from somewhere else.

We have nothing like the outside resources that these clubs have.

I am simply pushing back on the suggestion that fan ownership will never work. By giving examples of some of the most silverware successful and financially successful clubs on the planet who are fan owned.

 

[alcoblade]

I am simply pushing back on the suggestion that fan ownership will never work. By giving examples of some of the most silverware successful and financially successful clubs on the planet who are fan owned.

But cause and effect the wrong way around there, in my opinion.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

But cause and effect the wrong way around there, in my opinion.

You've lost me. Can you elaborate?

 

[alcoblade]

You've lost me. Can you elaborate?

I think if you're a large, successful club with huge revenue streams, you could then become fan owned and maintain that position. I just can't see the idea that, in England with so much financial input from owners, you could become successful with fan ownership alone, from a weak starting point.

 

[Snowflake]

I think if you're a large, successful club with huge revenue streams, you could then become fan owned and maintain that position. I just can't see the idea that, in England with so much financial input from owners, you could become successful with fan ownership alone, from a weak starting point.

It depends on how to judge “success”.
If you club was about to go bust and was rescued by fans to continue as a league club and in the FA cup then that is success. However I am not sure what “success” would realistically be for us.

 

[The Bohemian]

Real Madrid and Barcelona mop up just about the entirety of TV money in Spain. Barcelona also nearly went bust, didn't they? Bayern Munich have some big investor / shareholders.

I'm really not sure most of these examples are at all relevant to clubs like us.

I’ll throw in Athletic Bilbao, the only “other” Spanish club never to have been relegated from La Liga. Only use players born in the Basque region or academy graduates. Built and fully paid for a new 52,000 seater stadium fairly recently too.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Dear Blades,
Many of you will know me if you follow the Blades home and away but I am new to this forum, which a friend told me is the main Blades fan forum. I am hoping for your input to an initiative I am involved in.

In November 2021 Tracy Crouch published her Fan Led Review of Football Governance, which included a ten-point proposal for strengthening how professional football is governed in England. Included in the proposals is a recommendation that supporters would get a “golden share” in their club. This would oblige clubs to consult with supporters in a number of key areas, including any plans to sell the club’s stadium, change the team’s name, crest or colours etc., and ultimately provide them with a veto if they disapproved of their club’s plans.

Crouch’s proposal received cross party support and her key recommendations are expected, at some point, to gain parliamentary approval. I have discussed the legislation with Richard Caborn, a former minister for sport, who is also a Blades supporter. There is still an opportunity to influence any legislation and think through how Sheffield United’s supporters would like their voice to be heard at board level.

With this in mind, please identify the areas where you feel supporters should be consulted in relation to Sheffield United Football Club. Supporter groups in other clubs have considered issues linked to financial sustainability, club history & heritage, youth development and community engagement. What do you think is important?

I will collate responses from this forum, an online survey and one-to-one interviews before proposing a list of priorities to be put to a vote. The outcome of this will then be presented to the relevant parliamentary body with a view to influencing legislation. I will also engage with existing Blades supporter groups to decide the best way forward in achieving effective engagement with Sheffield United’s owners – current and future.

WABAW? Chris Woolhouse

Chris, I’d like to know if Tracey Crouch can do anything about our current injury list?

 

[The Bohemian]

Dear Blades,
Many of you will know me if you follow the Blades home and away but I am new to this forum, which a friend told me is the main Blades fan forum. I am hoping for your input to an initiative I am involved in.

In November 2021 Tracy Crouch published her Fan Led Review of Football Governance, which included a ten-point proposal for strengthening how professional football is governed in England. Included in the proposals is a recommendation that supporters would get a “golden share” in their club. This would oblige clubs to consult with supporters in a number of key areas, including any plans to sell the club’s stadium, change the team’s name, crest or colours etc., and ultimately provide them with a veto if they disapproved of their club’s plans.

Crouch’s proposal received cross party support and her key recommendations are expected, at some point, to gain parliamentary approval. I have discussed the legislation with Richard Caborn, a former minister for sport, who is also a Blades supporter. There is still an opportunity to influence any legislation and think through how Sheffield United’s supporters would like their voice to be heard at board level.

With this in mind, please identify the areas where you feel supporters should be consulted in relation to Sheffield United Football Club. Supporter groups in other clubs have considered issues linked to financial sustainability, club history & heritage, youth development and community engagement. What do you think is important?

I will collate responses from this forum, an online survey and one-to-one interviews before proposing a list of priorities to be put to a vote. The outcome of this will then be presented to the relevant parliamentary body with a view to influencing legislation. I will also engage with existing Blades supporter groups to decide the best way forward in achieving effective engagement with Sheffield United’s owners – current and future.

WABAW? Chris Woolhouse

This could be a very positive step if done right. Supporter involvement often appears as a last resort when a club is on its knees - Hearts and Luton being good recent examples. Why not get on the front foot with this and aim to set up a structure that might even reduce the risk of administration or some other calamity down the line? My thoughts on how to proceed:

1. We need a shadow board that provides independent oversight and scrutiny, not a 'Fan Advisory Board' selected by owners
2. The shadow board needs to work positively and constructively with the Club board, not just whine and moan from the touchline
3. The goal should be financial sustainability to reduce reliance on an individual benefactor (and all the risk that this implies). The shadow board should work with the Club towards that goal
4. The active engagement of supporters in a particular scheme, or schemes, e.g. Academy and Community programmes, could help towards sustainability. We already have one of the most productive academies in the UK and a stated ambition to become a Cat 1. This will need focus and cash, which could be supported via a membership scheme overseen by a shadow board, thus ensuring every penny goes towards its intended cause
5. Any fan structure needs to ensure appropriate governance and financial structures are in place, ensuring transparency and accountability

Other club's have made this concept work and become stronger as a result. There's no reason why we can't do likewise.

 

[wchris62]

My comments as follows;

1.Crouchs proposal for an Independent Regulator is a step forward. Close to SUFC's fans hearts currently is the owners and directors test and the two failed attempts to buy the club. Whilst accepting there are confidential and due diligence issues it should be incumbent on the EPL and EFL to publish their findings at to why prospective buyers have failed the tests. Only then can supporters judge how both the club and buyer have conducted themselves during the process and what lessons can be learned.

2. Fan Engagement representation should be managed by independent supporters groups not clubs. Constitution, membership and selection should not be the domain of Clubs to avoid lip service being paid to the process. This will ensure supporters control the agenda.

3. The Shadow Board proposal, which is not Fans Advisory Boards controlled by Clubs, consisting of elected professionals by supporters associations is a far better alternative to FAB. "The club should engage and consult this Shadow Board on all material ‘non football/off pitch’ business and financial matters."

4. The Golden Share proposal "It should be a licence condition that all licenced clubs should include within their articles of association a Golden Share requiring democratic consent to proposed actions relating to identified heritage items." should be managed by the Shadow Board protecting Heritage issues such as the ground, name, strip etc. The GS requires the club to provide a formal notice period should they wish to make any material changes.

5. The creation of a Shadow Board will ensure effective communication from the Club via an elected supporters medium. It avoids the embarrassment of using untrained third parties on twitter to provide information.

Great points ... what we are looking for atm is feedback so thank you

 

[wchris62]

Chris, I’d like to know if Tracey Crouch can do anything about our current injury list?

No but Eileen Drewery could do lol !!

 

[wchris62]

The golden share proposal was unfortunately one of the parts of the Crouch review that the UK Government has moved away from in their White Paper, which they’ve since published the results of their consultation on (again, omitting the golden share proposal). With next year’s election, they’re going to have to move at some pace to get the primary legislation passed to establish the independent regulator. There may be some cross-party support for it, and there are opportunities of course to amend the bills that will be brought forward, but the chances of that are somewhat slim.

Re: the other issues to consult on with the board, all PL clubs must set up Fan Advisory Boards as part of a broader fan engagement plan – this is part of the new fan engagement standard brought in earlier this year. There are a few areas the Football Supporters Association in particular has concerns with in the standard not going far enough (which they’re continuing to speak to the PL on), but from a United perspective we probably wouldn’t have started to set one up unless this standard came in. It’s a really good opportunity to improve some of the engagement with fans, and hopefully it’s a success. FABs should, in theory any way, be one route to feeding in on some of the issues the golden share would be there to protect. If you haven’t done so already, worth putting an application in to be on the United one.

Great feedback thank you

 

[wchris62]

And who would be doing the due diligence on the fans ?

Grossly idealised socialist claptrap I’m afraid. It would never work.

We generally have fans forums from time to time to engage with management / ownership.

Leave it at that.

UTB

Yeah ok

 

[wchris62]

Good on you sir. Would love to have the energy and/or time to contribute. Realistically I don't.

I did read the Fan Led Review awhile back. Can't remember it now! Some extremely important things in it.

Fan's should always have a say and able to veto a takeover as well, I think.

Absolutely pal

 

[wchris62]

The golden share proposal was unfortunately one of the parts of the Crouch review that the UK Government has moved away from in their White Paper, which they’ve since published the results of their consultation on (again, omitting the golden share proposal). With next year’s election, they’re going to have to move at some pace to get the primary legislation passed to establish the independent regulator. There may be some cross-party support for it, and there are opportunities of course to amend the bills that will be brought forward, but the chances of that are somewhat slim.

Re: the other issues to consult on with the board, all PL clubs must set up Fan Advisory Boards as part of a broader fan engagement plan – this is part of the new fan engagement standard brought in earlier this year. There are a few areas the Football Supporters Association in particular has concerns with in the standard not going far enough (which they’re continuing to speak to the PL on), but from a United perspective we probably wouldn’t have started to set one up unless this standard came in. It’s a really good opportunity to improve some of the engagement with fans, and hopefully it’s a success. FABs should, in theory any way, be one route to feeding in on some of the issues the golden share would be there to protect. If you haven’t done so already, worth putting an application in to be on the United one.

Brilliant feedback thank you

 

[wchris62]

This could be a very positive step if done right. Supporter involvement often appears as a last resort when a club is on its knees - Hearts and Luton being good recent examples. Why not get on the front foot with this and aim to set up a structure that might even reduce the risk of administration or some other calamity down the line? My thoughts on how to proceed:

1. We need a shadow board that provides independent oversight and scrutiny, not a 'Fan Advisory Board' selected by owners
2. The shadow board needs to work positively and constructively with the Club board, not just whine and moan from the touchline
3. The goal should be financial sustainability to reduce reliance on an individual benefactor (and all the risk that this implies). The shadow board should work with the Club towards that goal
4. The active engagement of supporters in a particular scheme, or schemes, e.g. Academy and Community programmes, could help towards sustainability. We already have one of the most productive academies in the UK and a stated ambition to become a Cat 1. This will need focus and cash, which could be supported via a membership scheme overseen by a shadow board, thus ensuring every penny goes towards its intended cause
5. Any fan structure needs to ensure appropriate governance and financial structures are in place, ensuring transparency and accountability

Other club's have made this concept work and become stronger as a result. There's no reason why we can't do likewise.

Constructive views thank you

 

[wchris62]

With all due respect mate, please desist with the 'WABAW' shite. It'd be like the pigs doing a bastardised version of the GCB song!

We are better than that

Rolling eye emoji

 

[wchris62]

Also Bayern Munich have had significant investment from a number of businesses.

Totally agree ... be great to be on Bayerns tail

 

[wchris62]

I’m sure giving fans a share is a noble, and probably good thing. It doesn’t alter the point that fans alone simply don’t generate the money to compete.

Great point

 

[wchris62]

Any relation to Paul?

errrrrr no!

 

[sheff_blade90]

proof that sometimes having a democracy isnt a good thing. could you imagine the fury & carnage if they got rid of automatic season ticket renewals. i know be furious i would be ive sat in my place since 2002. i dont intend on moving

 

[Bladesman]

proof that sometimes having a democracy isnt a good thing. could you imagine the fury & carnage if they got rid of automatic season ticket renewals. i know be furious i would be ive sat in my place since 2002. i dont intend on moving

They need to do something about loyalty points but I have no idea what the solution is.

 

[sheff_blade90]

They need to do something about loyalty points but I have no idea what the solution is.

yes i would agree on that because mainly for majority of kids do get affected. but at the moment every idea doesnt solve the problem it just moves it