FA/PL Bias for big 6 clubs

[Sandygate Blade]

Not sure there is a conspiracy but there is definite unconscious bias towards the big clubs

 

[ATL Recs]

Thought we were genuinely in the game until the referee gave 3 extremely questionable decisions which ended up going in. I think all faith and confidence in the referees from the players was a big factor into why they seemed disinterested and lacked the motivation to keep going. Why bother when you make a perfect tackle which gets given as a free kick against you and a yellow card given?

Anyway, it got me thinking about yet again questionable decisions going the way of the big 6 clubs - surely the FA/PL want to make sure that clubs like Newcastle are up there competing for European places as it means that they are likely to sign more high profile players which raises the viewership/sponsorship/marketing brand of the Premier League and English football in general. The more teams that are in the PL pushing for European football, means it's more likely that PL clubs are going to sign the big name players. If the big clubs start to falter in the league and teams like Brighton/Aston Villa challenge for European football, I don't think it benefits the FA/PL in any way. They won't progress very far in the Europa League/Champions League so it doesn't benefit the PL/FA when it comes to viewership or commercial income because they won't pull the same amount of merchandise sales/sponsorship as the big clubs.

We were in the game for around 15 minutes once Gordon came on they walk through us time and time again without getting out of second gear
You can moan all you like about the free kicks and all leading to the first 3 goals but we still had the opportunity to defend and blew it

 

[Working Class Hero]

So Burnley were robbed of a goal when Berge handled the ball by accident passed to another player to score just like Gordon at the Lane ?

I haven't seen it but if his hand was in a natural position and it was accidental, then yes.

 

[petcharlie]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

Weird how the Big 6 expands to include whichever team we've just lost against. No doubt when West Ham hammer us, we'll see the same old threads crop up aboiut "bias towards the big teams"

Its not just the big six it is the established prem teams .Always has been .

 

[petcharlie]

everyone believes the refs are out to get them.

I’ve seen Man Utd fans adamant they are being cheated every game.

We are missing the point here its the quality of the officials that i question .One ref makes different decisions to the next ref ,they are making the game a farce

 

[Booker4]

The Newcastle first goal is definitely a goal by the letter of the law as it was accidental, Gordon didn't score and his arm was in a natural position. It pains me to say all of that. So that decision didn't go against us but was just the laws of the game. Others have definitely gone against us like the second and third goals from Saturday, particularly the second.

 

[steve26272]

So Burnley were robbed of a goal when Berge handled the ball by accident passed to another player to score just like Gordon at the Lane ?

I suspect that Berge's was interpreted as arm to ball as it could be viewed he did it on purpose to gain an advantage
Gordons will have been deemed unintentional as it bounced up and hit him

This is the grey area that VAR creates, its down to the reading of the incident by VAR and then the ref

I always (afer the event) try to look at it and think if it happened against/for us how would I feel

When I saw the replay of the Bogle/penalty incident I did fear the worse, not because were little SUFC and the FA are against us, but he made contact with the foot, and non with the ball.

VAR has caused its own problems, but there has always been problems
Back in the day the ref used to take the flack, or it would be put down to 'we were shit'
Sky introduce 30 cameras to a game, every incident is poured over in detail, refs errors are highlighted
VAR is introduced to reduce errors
VAR is now the point of failure

Couple this with a blame culture where its always someone elses fault, and here we are

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

The handball rule is an absolute farce, nobody seems to know from one season to the next what it is. The Gordon one is a classic case in point, last season that’s ruled out this season not. Football is a simple game that’s being over complicated for no good reason. It’ll have more laws than rugby union before much longer.

 

[Chimpan-A]

We were in the game for around 15 minutes once Gordon came on they walk through us time and time again without getting out of second gear
You can moan all you like about the free kicks and all leading to the first 3 goals but we still had the opportunity to defend and blew it

Two different points. It’s true that Newcastle were superior in every way and were going to destroy us whatever the ref did. It doesn’t detract from the point that certain clubs get the benefit of decisions over others, and it would make sense in this day and age that rich clubs with fan bases across the globe would be favourably treated, to protect the brand.

 

[petcharlie]

I suspect that Berge's was interpreted as arm to ball as it could be viewed he did it on purpose to gain an advantage
Gordons will have been deemed unintentional as it bounced up and hit him

This is the grey area that VAR creates, its down to the reading of the incident by VAR and then the ref

I always (afer the event) try to look at it and think if it happened against/for us how would I feel

When I saw the replay of the Bogle/penalty incident I did fear the worse, not because were little SUFC and the FA are against us, but he made contact with the foot, and non with the ball.

VAR has caused its own problems, but there has always been problems
Back in the day the ref used to take the flack, or it would be put down to 'we were shit'
Sky introduce 30 cameras to a game, every incident is poured over in detail, refs errors are highlighted
VAR is introduced to reduce errors
VAR is now the point of failure

Couple this with a blame culture where its always someone elses fault, and here we are

If you have the chance to view Berges so called hand ball you will see it was less of a hand ball than Gordons .In fact it look like it hit him around the arm pit area or chest where as Gordons was clearly a hand . The penalty Man City was awarded against Egan was another questionable decision ,Egan was falling to the floor and the natural thing to do is put your hand down to break your fall but that was deemed to be unnatural . On the same weekend the very same thing happened in another game in the prem where a player put his hand down to break his fall and that was said to be natural position because he was breaking his fall . I am not saying that every one is against SUFC I am saying that refs are swayed by the occasions ,the crowds the arenas the power of the big clubs may be without realizing it .They can not agree what decisions are right or wrong .We had Kieth Hacket on saying the ref got it wrong when he sent McBurnie off for telling the ref his shirt was being pulled ,the game is fast becoming a farce mainly due to the decisions the refs are making . There is no conformity to decisions made from one week to the next .

 

[HillmortonBlade]

I am astounded that anyone would think that the Premier League doesn’t want to protect its most significant cash raising assets. Of course it’s corrupt.

 

[FlamingLip]

In summary (and to repeat a lot of comments above): levellers are being increasingly removed on top of quite obvious unconscious bias. How it affects player mindset during the match, dunno. But an interesting project for any sports psychologist we've got on the books.

The PL wants the most 'marketable' teams with the highest profiles. We're highly likely to always be a 'dont mind us, just passing through' club at the top level. Until that is, it becomes a fully closed shop.

 

[Keen Blade]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

Weird how the Big 6 expands to include whichever team we've just lost against. No doubt when West Ham hammer us, we'll see the same old threads crop up aboiut "bias towards the big teams"

Of course Wet Sham are a big club compared to us , totally in fashion , got stadium for peppercorn rent , London team , 60,000 crowds.
When you say big6 or top clubs , it doesn't matter , it's :
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Wet Sham
Liverpool
Everton
Manure
City
Villa

plus any with billionaire owners

 

[S6Blademan]

Wah wah wah

This idea that there is a bias towards the bigger teams is utter tripe

The foul on Maddison that’s wasn’t given a Penalty that went our way the other week

Larouci fouled a Forest player the other week both should have been penalties

Luton got the jammiest hand ball decision at the weekend

It’s just a shit show VAR the sooner they scrap it the better

 

[Sheffsteel]

The handball rule is an absolute farce, nobody seems to know from one season to the next what it is. The Gordon one is a classic case in point, last season that’s ruled out this season not. Football is a simple game that’s being over complicated for no good reason. It’ll have more laws than rugby union before much longer.

I understood the rule was very simple this year.
Berge goal was disallowed as it was considered deliberate.
Gordon handball was ignore because it was considered accidental.

Also the rules are changed to improve the game, however scenarios occur to make the changes look stupid
but if they changed it back it would again look stupid for the losing team.

The constant is that which ever concedes a goal based on a controversial decision
then the manager, players and fans ALWAYS blame the ref and the rules.

Funny how the fans, players and manager of the teams that gain from the decision always say the ref was correct and the rules are fine.

 

[YES Blade]

In summary (and to repeat a lot of comments above): levellers are being increasingly removed on top of quite obvious unconscious bias. How it affects player mindset during the match, dunno. But an interesting project for any sports psychologist we've got on the books.

The PL wants the most 'marketable' teams with the highest profiles. We're highly likely to always be a 'dont mind us, just passing through' club at the top level. Until that is, it becomes a fully closed shop.

There are about 5 or 6 truly global brands, the rest will always be there to just make up the numbers. I doubt the Premier League really care who the other clubs are as long as they can make the games against the big clubs a little bit entertaining

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I understood the rule was very simple this year.
Berge goal was disallowed as it was considered deliberate.
Gordon handball was ignore because it was considered accidental.

Also the rules are changed to improve the game, however scenarios occur to make the changes look stupid
but if they changed it back it would again look stupid for the losing team.

The constant is that which ever concedes a goal based on a controversial decision
then the manager, players and fans ALWAYS blame the ref and the rules.

Funny how the fans, players and manager of the teams that gain from the decision always say the ref was correct and the rules are fine.

In fairness I’m not sure they do. I know a couple of Newcastle fans and they thought it should have been handball too given it led directly to a goal. Not sure there was much wrong with the old “deliberate “ handball rule myself.

 

[Lmaobob]

I wonder if some referees favour the big teams to try their best to avoid abuse from their ‘fans’ online’. We all know that the big clubs have huge fan bases from all around the world, especially on Twitter, Facebook etc… I’m sure a fair number of them have been able to dox referees (dox is an IT term for finding out personal information about a person) and abuse them online or maybe even in person. We are always told that players and referees are normal human beings, so they must have online accounts on Facebook, Twitter etc - i even think Hecky admitted he has a private twitter account in a video where he was discussing trying to ignore online criticism.

If I was a referee in the public eye, the last thing I would want to do is piss off a Man United fan in India that is sat behind a keyboard who has the ability to dox me and find out where I live, who the people in my family are and target us. (Remember when Pig fans found out the name of Wilders daughter Evie and they spread rumours about her shagging some of the players. This must have been quite traumatising for the girl and the family if they saw it).

We lost 8-0 and people have been using it as a way to laugh at us about the Cusack 8 death. There are people online that show no remorse and have no boundaries, I am sure that referees get targeted constantly by fans of big clubs on a weekly basis. Only way for it to potentially stop or give decisions for them!

Anyway I’ll take off my tin foil hat now and go to sleep

 

[1889]

Newcastle were three nil up at halftime and every goal was due to the incompetence of the referee.
1st, Gordon handles the ball, accidental, the wind was blowing the wrong way, whatever, it’s handball all day long.
2nd Shots going wide Newcastle player intentionally extends his left elbow away from his body, deflecting the shot goal wards. Wes saves, corner to Newcastle. It was a more blatant hand ball than Gordon’s and the ref was looking straight at it from the edge of the 18 yd box.
3rd Scored from a free kick given against Jack Robinson for a great tackle, no foul, no free kick, no goal.

We go in at 0-0 and Hecky doesn’t decide to go all gun ho second half, swap to a back four and bring on Traore, presumably in an effort to chase the game.

Sadly, the fact we conceded a further five goals, has let the referee off the hook, as people will say his first half shit show was irrelevant, given the final score. But they are missing the point, because his fucking first half shit show forced Heckys hand and was the catalyst for everything that happened in the second!!

 

[GymClassHero]

I’m not sure I sign up to it being a conspiracy but I do think there’s an unconscious bias in play. Whether they acknowledge it or not I do think officials know they will get more scrutiny for decisions against the bigger clubs. How much that influences the way they referee the game I guess will vary from person to person but in my opinion human nature will come into it a bit.

Agreed mate. Don't buy into corruption as such, however it's human nature to be somewhat biased, to a neutral (i.e referee's) they are far more likely to gravitate towards the favourite big club.

 

[Bell4]

We were discussing this in the pub before the game on Sunday. Each of us were going to the game expecting some kind of controversy whatever it may be, there’s always a feeling someone is going to get shafted.

Completely takes the enjoyment out of going to the games imo. The Premier League is purely designed with the TV viewers in mind. My enthusiasm for going to games these days has honestly never been lower.

Spot on - agree

 

[Bell4]

Wah wah wah

This idea that there is a bias towards the bigger teams is utter tripe

The foul on Maddison that’s wasn’t given a Penalty that went our way the other week

Larouci fouled a Forest player the other week both should have been penalties

Luton got the jammiest hand ball decision at the weekend

It’s just a shit show VAR the sooner they scrap it the better

Agree

1st Newcastle goal, ball not out and unintentional handball arm in a natural position = goal (crap law but there you go) 2nd goal unintentional hand ball arm in a natural position , couldn’t defend corner = goal . 3rd goal aggressive follow through by JLT , foul , could easily have been red and JLT knew it (crap law but there you go ) , couldn’t defend resulting free kick for toffee .

Penalty let off as Bogal made contact with Newcastle forward , very lucky to get away with that


Let’s stop being victims and do something about the woeful defending , the non existent midfield and the under resourced forward line .

Oh , and getting some of these young athletic men out of the treatment room - some who have had more convalescing that a recovering trauma victim

 

[Lmaobob]

Newcastle were three nil up at halftime and every goal was due to the incompetence of the referee.
1st, Gordon handles the ball, accidental, the wind was blowing the wrong way, whatever, it’s handball all day long.
2nd Shots going wide Newcastle player intentionally extends his left elbow away from his body, deflecting the shot goal wards. Wes saves, corner to Newcastle. It was a more blatant hand ball than Gordon’s and the ref was looking straight at it from the edge of the 18 yd box.
3rd Scored from a free kick given against Jack Robinson for a great tackle, no foul, no free kick, no goal.

We go in at 0-0 and Hecky doesn’t decide to go all gun ho second half, swap to a back four and bring on Traore, presumably in an effort to chase the game.

Sadly, the fact we conceded a further five goals, has let the referee off the hook, as people will say his first half shit show was irrelevant, given the final score. But they are missing the point, because his fucking first half shit show forced Heckys hand and was the catalyst for everything that happened in the second!!

Edit: misinterpreted the post

 

[S6Blademan]

Newcastle were three nil up at halftime and every goal was due to the incompetence of the referee.
1st, Gordon handles the ball, accidental, the wind was blowing the wrong way, whatever, it’s handball all day long.
2nd Shots going wide Newcastle player intentionally extends his left elbow away from his body, deflecting the shot goal wards. Wes saves, corner to Newcastle. It was a more blatant hand ball than Gordon’s and the ref was looking straight at it from the edge of the 18 yd box.
3rd Scored from a free kick given against Jack Robinson for a great tackle, no foul, no free kick, no goal.

We go in at 0-0 and Hecky doesn’t decide to go all gun ho second half, swap to a back four and bring on Traore, presumably in an effort to chase the game.

Sadly, the fact we conceded a further five goals, has let the referee off the hook, as people will say his first half shit show was irrelevant, given the final score. But they are missing the point, because his fucking first half shit show forced Heckys hand and was the catalyst for everything that happened in the second!!

I’ve heard it all

It’s the refs fault we lost 8-0

 

[scouseblade]

There's beem five or six major rule changes in the game that all coincidentally favour the top teams.

EPPP, handball rule, 5 subs and the added time rule are the obvious ones. More open for debate are the dissent rule and VAR. My POV from watching a lot of games since they have been brought in, is that its largely benefiting the top teams. With bowling green pitches, far less allowable contact, roofs on the stadiums, and modern stadia having bigger gaps from the pitch a lot of the "levelers" have been removed from the game. The financial disparity is also enormous due to state/oil ownership.

I agree with the comment above about unconscious bias. The above rules were brought in due to a media fixation ln decisions going against these top teams. It's no surprise that they feel the pressure to aplly them in their interest.

The net result will be less points to stay up, more to win the league, finish top four etc. Less upsets and a more boring league. Ironically the opposite to what made it successful in the first place.

I do wonder, if City continue to dominate and win it again this season. 4 in a row - first time ever - are the FA making a rod for their own back. Look at leagues like Germany and France and even Spain, can no longer find a decent TV rights because you know every season it will be PSG, Bayern, Barca/Real. If City keep winning titles, how long before Sky/Prime/TNT start looking at dwindling numbers? Costs are already pushing customers to their limit. You need to spend around £100 a month to see PL games unless you have a magic box.

That is why I think, they'll see if City win it again this season - records are made to be broken - then through the book at them for FFP next year - dock them 25 points (reduced to 10 on appeal) and fine them. City prob would still win the league but it would make it more interesting as really Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle etc are much of a muchnous now.

 

[scouseblade]

The handball rule is an absolute farce, nobody seems to know from one season to the next what it is. The Gordon one is a classic case in point, last season that’s ruled out this season not. Football is a simple game that’s being over complicated for no good reason. It’ll have more laws than rugby union before much longer.

More like the NFL

 

[scouseblade]

I’ve heard it all

It’s the refs fault we lost 8-0

I dont think people are totally giving the ref the reason we lost the game 8-0. The first goal shouldnt have stood but the handball rule is so open to interpretation now you just have to accept it. The corner does hit the defenders arm before Wes tips it over - not deliberate - be interesting to see what would have happened had it gone in. Finally, Robbo's tackle, sorry, I thought it was great, but you cannot tackle like that anymore. Simple. Those tackles just do not exist in modern football.

The defending for all three goals was diabolical and the second half a shambles beyond parody. You have to as a team accept refs will make mistakes or you believe they have. Its no excuse to then fail to do the basics - stop the cross reaching a Newcastle player. Its defending basics 1-0-1.

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

Thought it was Liverpool that are always the victims. Seems our fans want to take over that title.

 

[S6Blademan]

I dont think people are totally giving the ref the reason we lost the game 8-0. The first goal shouldnt have stood but the handball rule is so open to interpretation now you just have to accept it. The corner does hit the defenders arm before Wes tips it over - not deliberate - be interesting to see what would have happened had it gone in. Finally, Robbo's tackle, sorry, I thought it was great, but you cannot tackle like that anymore. Simple. Those tackles just do not exist in modern football.

The defending for all three goals was diabolical and the second half a shambles beyond parody. You have to as a team accept refs will make mistakes or you believe they have. Its no excuse to then fail to do the basics - stop the cross reaching a Newcastle player. Its defending basics 1-0-1.

The first goal should have stood as per the rules it want deliberate and Gordon didnt score so they cant rule it out

Its harsh but those are the rules there currently using

 

[1889]

Agree

1st Newcastle goal, ball not out and unintentional handball arm in a natural position = goal (crap law but there you go) 2nd goal unintentional hand ball arm in a natural position , couldn’t defend corner = goal . 3rd goal aggressive follow through by JLT , foul , could easily have been red and JLT knew it (crap law but there you go ) , couldn’t defend resulting free kick for toffee .

Penalty let off as Bogal made contact with Newcastle forward , very lucky to get away with that


Let’s stop being victims and do something about the woeful defending , the non existent midfield and the under resourced forward line .

Oh , and getting some of these young athletic men out of the treatment room - some who have had more convalescing that a recovering trauma victim

1, Please can you explain John Egans ‘unintentional, arm in a natural position’ handball and penalty decision against Man City??

2, I don’t want to piss on your chips but, there’s nobody currently in the treatment room who’s going to improve the performance of the team one iota

3, Under the latest dictate, from the PGMOL, a penalty is no longer awarded purely due to mere physical contact, there has to be significant contact, deemed sufficient to cause someone to actually be knocked off balance.

And finally, it’s Bogle