FA/PL Bias for big 6 clubs

[nopigfansintown]

I do wonder, if City continue to dominate and win it again this season. 4 in a row - first time ever - are the FA making a rod for their own back. Look at leagues like Germany and France and even Spain, can no longer find a decent TV rights because you know every season it will be PSG, Bayern, Barca/Real. If City keep winning titles, how long before Sky/Prime/TNT start looking at dwindling numbers? Costs are already pushing customers to their limit. You need to spend around £100 a month to see PL games unless you have a magic box.

That is why I think, they'll see if City win it again this season - records are made to be broken - then through the book at them for FFP next year - dock them 25 points (reduced to 10 on appeal) and fine them. City prob would still win the league but it would make it more interesting as really Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle etc are much of a muchnous now.

There's only one team that has seriously challenged them domestically in the Guardiola era. A lot of that challenged stems from Barca losing the plot with the Coutinho purchase - for well over the odds -, essentially financing that challenge. If that didn't happen we'd be looking at another Bundesliga.

 

[1889]

I’ve heard it all

It’s the refs fault we lost 8-0

That’s not what I said, English not your first language?

 

[scouseblade]

There's only one team that has seriously challenged them domestically in the Guardiola era. A lot of that challenged stems from Barca losing the plot with the Coutinho purchase - for well over the odd -s, essentially financing that challenge. If that didn't happen we'd be looking at another Bundesliga.

Indeed, but they couldnt sustain it.

Newcastle perhaps now because Saudi PIF has far more resources that anything Abu Dhabi can throw at City. Could be that those two will dominate going forward. Until other states get involved, or PIF just buy the PL.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Indeed, but they couldnt sustain it.

Newcastle perhaps now because Saudi PIF has far more resources that anything Abu Dhabi can throw at City. Could be that those two will dominate going forward. Until other states get involved, or PIF just buy the PL.

The problem they have is FFP. They don't have the organic revenue streams of the others. City are the odd one out amongst those others (hence the cheating allegations) but they've sustained it and circumvented for long enough to have increased that revenue substantially now, irrespective of any breaches. Newcastle don't have that luxury. I think we are heading on a collision course where we are going to see if FFP will be an ongoing factor. The hegemony of the PL is based on us having the most money to pay players. The PL and government both share an interest in that staying the same as it's a significant £ generator for both. I can envisage a time when this pretense that they care about anything else is over and we have a free for all.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

Of course Wet Sham are a big club compared to us , totally in fashion , got stadium for peppercorn rent , London team , 60,000 crowds.
When you say big6 or top clubs , it doesn't matter , it's :
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Wet Sham
Liverpool
Everton
Manure
City
Villa

plus any with billionaire owners

Seems like a good enough reason for a "Super League",let the clubs with £squillions owners fight it out amongst themselves and us mere mortals can play each other,sorted.

 

[him behind you]

When Wilder took us up , as happy as I was, I still wasn't looking to the inevitable Unconcious bias towards the Liverpools Citee Spuds etc,
When we went down, we always seemed to have a couple of dubious goal/penalty decisions go against us.

Then (after sacking Jaockanovic), I really enjoyed our football and results, Ditto last season. and would have been quite happy to stay in the Championship.

I understand that most clubs in the Prem have better players than us, but we really are also battling against Referees / VAR / and the elite pundits who know every player in the top 10 , but have very little interest or praise for any of our players.

View attachment 171889

the only reason he controlled the ball was he knocked the rising ball down to his feet with his hand

Can't get the clip of Robinsons booking but he had got to & kicked the ball half a second or so before the Newcastle player whose momentum took himself crashing into Robbo, should he just have not joined the race for the ball and just let them have it ?

Absolutely agree with your thoughts on JLT's booking. He was first to the ball and kicked it before their player got there and clattered into JLT. If there was a foul, it was a late challenge on JLT.

 

[scouseblade]

Seems like a good enough reason for a "Super League",let the clubs with £squillions owners fight it out amongst themselves and us mere mortals can play each other,sorted.

The issue you would have then - is for example the top 6 break away to form this Super League, then the PL model collapses especially around TV revenue - look at how much the EFL gets compared to PL. If the SL becomes a reality, Sky will not fork out 5bn for the PL.

 

[The Fish]

The problem they have is FFP. They don't have the organic revenue streams of the others. City are the odd one out amongst those others (hence the cheating allegations) but they've sustained it and circumvented for long enough to have increased that revenue substantially now, irrespective of any breaches. Newcastle don't have that luxury. I think we are heading on a collision course where we are going to see if FFP will be an ongoing factor. The hegemony of the PL is based on us having the most money to pay players. The PL and government both share an interest in that staying the same as it's a significant £ generator for both. I can envisage a time when this pretense that they care about anything else is over and we have a free for all.

Newcastle fan here, and not on the wind-up, or trolling or anything.

We didn't have organic revenue streams, but it seems like barely a month goes by without another 'commercial partner' announcement. Sela have trebled our shirt sponsorship, we've signed a new deal with Adidas for our kits, and we've a stack of partners cropping up here and there. Ashley's incompetence/intransigence on that front meant where once we were comparable with Spurs, we've fallen way behind. The new owners have hired a bunch of people behind the scenes to help with our growth.

re: refereeing, it's no conspiracy. It's that quote "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". The first goal wasn't against the laws of the game, but the laws of the game are needlessly complicated. Nothing wrong with the second goal from what I could see? The third was definitely a foul given the laws of the game, but I get why you'd be unhappy. Those crunching tackles used to be ten a penny, but not now, not in the top flight.

Honestly think we should have had a penalty for Bogle's challenge on Gordon, but I've seen our own players get away with shit like that so I'm not precious. I've also seen Newcastle get stiffed by bizarre decisions. Last year, the young lad Anderson had his first PL goal chalked off because the referees couldn't interpret the offside laws properly. We got a nice apology, but unfortunately apologies can't be traded in for points.

 

[spikeachu]

Newcastle fan here, and not on the wind-up, or trolling or anything.

We didn't have organic revenue streams, but it seems like barely a month goes by without another 'commercial partner' announcement. Sela have trebled our shirt sponsorship, we've signed a new deal with Adidas for our kits, and we've a stack of partners cropping up here and there. Ashley's incompetence/intransigence on that front meant where once we were comparable with Spurs, we've fallen way behind. The new owners have hired a bunch of people behind the scenes to help with our growth.

re: refereeing, it's no conspiracy. It's that quote "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". The first goal wasn't against the laws of the game, but the laws of the game are needlessly complicated. Nothing wrong with the second goal from what I could see? The third was definitely a foul given the laws of the game, but I get why you'd be unhappy. Those crunching tackles used to be ten a penny, but not now, not in the top flight.

Honestly think we should have had a penalty for Bogle's challenge on Gordon, but I've seen our own players get away with shit like that so I'm not precious. I've also seen Newcastle get stiffed by bizarre decisions. Last year, the young lad Anderson had his first PL goal chalked off because the referees couldn't interpret the offside laws properly. We got a nice apology, but unfortunately apologies can't be traded in for points.

Nothing wrong with the second goal per se, but the corner leading to it should never have been given.

The attempt at goal leading to the corner was hit with the forearm, leaving the keeper with a difficult choice. Does he let it in and hope that VAR decide to chalk it off or tip it over the bar meaning that VAR don't look at it and hope the ref spotted the pretty obvious infringement?

Sky has the technology to show the world before the corner is taken that there was a handball - VAR just choose to ignore these infringements, not to get involved and offer a further advantage to the infringing team in these situations. Seems a bizarre implementation to me that could be improved.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

The issue you would have then - is for example the top 6 break away to form this Super League, then the PL model collapses especially around TV revenue - look at how much the EFL gets compared to PL. If the SL becomes a reality, Sky will not fork out 5bn for the PL.

I take your point,you've obviously thought it through,my thinking is ,if Sky don't fork out so much money for the P.L,wouldn't that make it a more level playing field? Just opinions,Scouseblade, I always like to know the other guys opinion,I'll probably learn something.

 

[1889]

Nothing wrong with the second goal per se, but the corner leading to it should never have been given.

The attempt at goal leading to the corner was hit with the forearm, leaving the keeper with a difficult choice. Does he let it in and hope that VAR decide to chalk it off or tip it over the bar meaning that VAR don't look at it and hope the ref spotted the pretty obvious infringement?

Sky has the technology to show the world before the corner is taken that there was a handball - VAR just choose to ignore these infringements, not to get involved and offer a further advantage to the infringing team in these situations. Seems a bizarre implementation to me that could be improved.

My seat on the kop was directly in line with the second goal, handball incident. The shot was going a yard wide and the Newcastle player deliberately flicked out his elbow and deflected the ball towards the goal with his forearm. I don't blame the player at all, I’d have done exactly the same when I played.

But I do blame the incompetence of the referee and his VAR colleagues. It was absolutely blatant, to anyone who knows anything about the game, which as becomes more and more evident, unfortunately excludes the match officials.

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

1st goal was entirely legal by the current bonkers hand ball rules. And they are bonkers, but that's not the ref's/VAR's fault.
2nd goal was entirely preventable if Anel actually bothered to get goalside of his man at corners and use his body to block the attacking runs. Watch him at set-pieces. Happens all the time.
3rd goal was not a foul leading up to it. But these things happen all the time. Free kicks are sometimes unjust and can go against you, and also for you (see Bogle foul in the area). Deal with it. And letting a 6ft 5in Centre half have an unchallenged free header right in the centre of the area is probably not the best way to deal with it.

Let's stop behaving like aggrieved, victimised Liverpool fans. We were spanked out of sight by a team who could, and probably should, have scored more.
Next match at Wet Sham. Might happen again. Or we might win. Whatever, we're faves to go down. Which is about right, and about what we expected.
Personally, the first time we win, I'm gonna get even more shitfaced after the game than usual. Which is undoubtedly right.....

 

[scouseblade]

Let's stop behaving like aggrieved, victimised Liverpool fans

Wow.....do we still go there? Why have you brought Liverpool into this? As if they are the only fanbase that moans. And victims.....fuck off mate, old hat.

 

[scouseblade]

I take your point,you've obviously thought it through,my thinking is ,if Sky don't fork out so much money for the P.L,wouldn't that make it a more level playing field? Just opinions,Scouseblade, I always like to know the other guys opinion,I'll probably learn something.

Oh no doubt it might level the playing field. Although what six would go? Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool.....then recently Chelsea have faltered, Spurs too, Newcastle have risen and don't forget Brighton and West Ham have had a resurgence - one won a European trophy last season.

 

[jt64]

I am astounded that anyone would think that the Premier League doesn’t want to protect its most significant cash raising assets. Of course it’s corrupt.

They could give every 50/50 decision against a big 7 club and none of them would get relegated, they would still occupy at least 5 European spots, and City would likely still win the league

 

[originaltrueblade]

They do favour the big clubs…make sure they win for the worldwide TV audience who predominantly support the big six, we can’t have them losing can we. It’s deliberate because if it wasn’t deliberate it wouldn’t be happening all the time.
Like we sing premier League corrupt as fuck

 

[fifty shades of blade]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

Weird how the Big 6 expands to include whichever team we've just lost against. No doubt when West Ham hammer us, we'll see the same old threads crop up aboiut "bias towards the big teams"

We? You lot aren't playing the hammers..get in the bin, rat.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

There is a (being generous, given my conversations with two retired referees) unconscious bias towards the “bigger” clubs, but this nothing new and probably probably exaggerated by the fans of teams which don’t have the same level of success.

The more recent introduction of VAR and tinkering with the rules (e.g. extending playing time and number of substitutions) is so obviously biased towards the bigger claims that I can’t believe it is unconscious.

Corruption isn’t simply making biased decisions during the match, I’d argue that the whole system of the Premier League is so far removed from a level playing field that this has corrupted the game. I only read of more fans, not less, falling out of love with the game.

 

[Selly]

The more recent introduction of VAR and tinkering with the rules (e.g. extending playing time and number of substitutions) is so obviously biased towards the bigger claims that I can’t believe it is unconscious.

Of course its conscious.

What is becoming obvious is that the PL is essentially a crab bucket, with 1 massive crab, 3 or 4 big crabs, and the rest crabs of varying sizes.

Any change that sees the crabs of varying sizes have an opportunity to make sure the really tiny crabs cant get bigger will be taken.

They want a closed shop, they don`t have one, so the next best thing is making sure that the bottom 6 are always the bottom 6. It removes any danger for them of dropping out of the elite.

As soon as they think they will get away with it, they'll start reducing the number of relegation spots.

 

[djbaldken]

That’s not what I said, English not your first language?

Its not even his second!

 

[Tezza1889]

It's really simple tbh..

Billionaire owned clubs are what the Premier league desire, for every reason you can think of..

But the way they the Premier league have chosen to defend thier product against the Saudi league is to be fair masterfull.

Allowing five subs means that the very top clubs can have as many world class players on the bench as they can afford, being owned by billionaires, it's down now to just who you could attract to the club.

This is the fulcrum of all thier plans, and as has been stated before the top teams are the attraction to worldwide audiences and not the other 14, so they not only allow the top teams to bring on up to 5 world class players on 70 minutes, they now also play enough time for them to get into the game and have an impact.. Which we saw most evidently at spurs..

It's a completely unfair system for the newly promoted team who's scraped together something of a first team, and a few hopefulls on the bench (who's really bothered about them though in the grand scheme of things), in reality we all know the ref would have still been on the pitch at white heart lane till they got the result.. I genuenley beleive we'd have seen 30 minutes played, with our players out on their feet playing against 3-5 twenty something world class players who are fresh as a daisy as they've just come on, it's like if you were fighting Tyson Fury and winning, then they bring on Anthony Joshua for the last three rounds...

Disarming the plucky unwanted guests further by removing any tactics to relieve the pressure is just another spoon of sugar in the top teams coffee, the screaming and rolling about forces the ref to give cards, and even questioning the ref goes only the way of the lower team, maddison being a point, the ref probably said, I'll need to book you James, before he did, knowing that maddison was after him all game, but we all know he's not going off is he..

Different for OMB (but who cares about him)

So, what's our part in this you ask, well in the past the newly promoted teams could cause shocks, coupon busting results and the like, well that's gone now, as the odds will tell you that the gambling companies are on point and for 5 results on this Saturdays slips you get as much as 4/1 on sky bet, betting on the usual five top teams to win.

Our part is to be what they always wanted, whipping boys, as was so well put by one of the podcasters last week

"just turn up, give us the three points and fuck off"..... That's it, that's our role.



To summarise a little, I know I'm going on..

But, the Saudi league is an incredible threat to the Premier league product no doubt about that, but anybody in marketing knows it's the brands that matter, so Al hilal or whatever they are called will never have the appeal or marketability of Manchester United, or Liverpool, the approach taken ensures that when Liverpool play Wimbledon (unlikely) the lawrie Sanchez goal and the shock will never ever happen again... Liverpool will win the cup, fuck the romance of it..


They are countering the European super league within the Premier league and the top 10 of this division who of course can afford to buy players good enough to sustain the product, they'll be part of the furniture until the owner gets bored (*reference Leicester City) however Manchester United will just be sold to a new billionaire, as there's a marked difference in the two "brands".

The whole game is at stake, nobody is really bothered about the cups as its all pointless until the 1/4 finals, and then the prem teams play the first 11, and you know its one from 4 at the top that's gonna lift it.

The Premier league will be the same in the end with Instagram supporters making live videos from the stands, and as is already happening being given a platform to criticise on television the lowly pile of shit that turned up to dare play against them, but the governing body will be happy, top brands on the shelf every year and I have to say it, 10-0 results will happen soon, as the quality gap widens.

No billionaire, no point bothering, that's where I think we're heading.

Edit : the owner reference in regard to LCFC is directed at the children that inherited the club on the owners sad passing, they don't share his passion clearly, RIP with respects.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

Oh no doubt it might level the playing field. Although what six would go? Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool.....then recently Chelsea have faltered, Spurs too, Newcastle have risen and don't forget Brighton and West Ham have had a resurgence - one won a European trophy last seaso

Didn't they have a vote among P.l clubs to see who fancied it last time?

 

[Booker4]

Newcastle fan here, and not on the wind-up, or trolling or anything.

We didn't have organic revenue streams, but it seems like barely a month goes by without another 'commercial partner' announcement. Sela have trebled our shirt sponsorship, we've signed a new deal with Adidas for our kits, and we've a stack of partners cropping up here and there. Ashley's incompetence/intransigence on that front meant where once we were comparable with Spurs, we've fallen way behind. The new owners have hired a bunch of people behind the scenes to help with our growth.

re: refereeing, it's no conspiracy. It's that quote "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". The first goal wasn't against the laws of the game, but the laws of the game are needlessly complicated. Nothing wrong with the second goal from what I could see? The third was definitely a foul given the laws of the game, but I get why you'd be unhappy. Those crunching tackles used to be ten a penny, but not now, not in the top flight.

Honestly think we should have had a penalty for Bogle's challenge on Gordon, but I've seen our own players get away with shit like that so I'm not precious. I've also seen Newcastle get stiffed by bizarre decisions. Last year, the young lad Anderson had his first PL goal chalked off because the referees couldn't interpret the offside laws properly. We got a nice apology, but unfortunately apologies can't be traded in for points.

I can see that's a genuine post, but your first paragraph is exactly what City fans said to me when I did what you've just done and gone on their forum to express my opinion. This "revenue" streams are the issue because there's a reason why City and Newcastle are getting revenue streams. They know that Newcastle will be able to spend whatever they want on their infrastructure to have the best talent academy in the land, along with City. You can spend what you want on that. Then you can develop players and sell them on for big money like what City have done with Palmer. It may be good ownership but you need hundreds of millions to develop it, and therefore by default City and Newcastle are able to still be the biggest clubs in the land because they will attract the most sponsorship knowing that both clubs are loaded and are going to succeed.

Then you've got City with countless allegations against them, we'll see how that goes. Their fans were mentioning Newcastle as having a problem to spend what they want due to FFP but since the new owners came Newcastle have gone from a team that were also rans, granted with bad ownership, to now being one of the best in the land. It's not happened solely due to Eddie Howe's management, it's happened because he has a much bigger fund to play with and that's always been the case with bigger clubs but the gap between the rest and the big 6 and it could just be big 2 will get too big. FFP needs changing to stop teams spending whatever they want on infrastructure because as I say it still leads to success on the pitch that others can't compete with when you've got owners who have the wealth to such extreme levels.

As for the referee stuff, the first was a goal by the laws of the land, the second in my view should be handball because your player has more than enough time to remove his arm out the way; he doesn't and then if deflects to goal and Wes has to make a save for a corner and then it's a goal. The last one, as you say, a few years ago that was fair, I still think it was fair and I thought your player ran into ours without winning the ball as much as Robinson did to yours but you won the foul because they deemed Robbo's contact as out of control or too aggressive I presume. It wasn't in my view, but I can see why it was given against us. I wonder if decisions like this will "even themselves out" and we'll get decisions in our favour but I doubt it.

All the best this season, nowt against Newcastle, proper club. I don't like the ownership model where extreme wealth can be brought in to the extent City and Newcastle have, but the model is what it is.

 

[Need4speed]

VAR means referees and assistant referees don't make decisions believing VAR will protect them. How can VAR be used to check whether the ball goes out but not then be used to say it was kept in by Gordon using his hand. Robinson's tackle can be checked ro see if it is violent conduct but the same tackle can't then be ruled by VAR to be fair and no free kick. The shot which resulted in the corner for the second goal can be cxhecked to see if it huit our players hand but can't rule out the corner because it actually hit their player. Madness