email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

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We're only just approaching the first real games that the changes will apply to, so whilst in calendar days it's been a while, theres not much to go on in terms of tackling/looking at the problem and how stopping non-season ticket sales have effected it.

The club want to sell as many tickets as possible, but also have a responsibility towards safety and to act on trying to improve the problem raised.
 
Foxy said:
We're only just approaching the first real games that the changes will apply to, so whilst in calendar days it's been a while, theres not much to go on in terms of tackling/looking at the problem and how stopping non-season ticket sales have effected it.

The club want to sell as many tickets as possible, but also have a responsibility towards safety and to act on trying to improve the problem raised.
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You’re clearly not taken into account the posts of our itkrs who KNOW the owner and management have just bent over and taken it.

The loss of substantial income not being important as we’re “rolling in money”.
 
bartman said:
I wonder if the club asked SAG if they could sell extra tickets on a limited basis for the Kopon a 3 match package covering the Coventry,Stoke and Hull games. Maximum of 500 sales. If no issues, do the next 3 games for a maximum of 750 sales and so on.....

or sell mini season tickets from Boxing Day onwards for the Kop with a cap on the total sold.

At least it would be clear to SAG that we are trying to control and monitor the issue( as well as raise gate receipts)
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Fully agree, the silence from the club is deafening and although I’m sure it’s not the case it comes across like we are laying down and having our belly tickled over this.
 
Was part of a meeting this evening in which representatives of SAG, SCC and Sheffield United were present, there will be more communications in the coming weeks, but my personal takeaway from what was said in summary (most of which has already been suggested in this thread) - This is by no means anything close to verbatim nor have I been asked to say particular things (we've never been in for that):

  • The crux of the issue and the most pressing matter, as speculated in this thread, is the migration and occupying of specific areas outside of an individuals ticket resulting in overcrowding, blockages and an unsafe environment. In plenty of observed examples this is 3/1 or higher. Talking particular areas at the back of the Kop and the gangways/exits.
  • The club have to tackle this, they can't simply ignore it and are ultimately responsible for safety of supporters, they want as many people in as possible, the best atmosphere possible, but have responsibilities to ensure that's in a safe manner.
  • I think by the very fact there is some dialogue beginning, they accept or think that perhaps it could have been handled differently or that the original message perhaps has been misunderstood in terms of meaning. At the very least, they want dialogue and a co-operation with supporters rather than "us and them".
  • SAG and SCC are currently working with the club, rather than against the club and have the same stated aims and can currently see that the club are taking the issue seriously and working towards improving things.
  • The first real games that are properly affected by the temporary changes are approaching and will help identify particular potential causes/assist in tackling the core problem.
  • The club are very unlikely to make any significant changes to the Kop on a piecemeal basis and anything of any consequence would be part of any larger redevelopment.
  • Safe standing, rail seats etc would all have to be part of larger redevelopment and regardless of a want, a budget or anything else, a HUGE prerequisite of any of that being allowed would be for the current setup running without the kind of current issues. Put simply, parachute some rail seats [spoiler, we can't] in and we'd still have the same issue and problem to tackle, just in the "safe standing" area, rather than the seated area.
  • Despite it seeming and "only targeting us" issue, other clubs are experiencing similar issues.
If people decide to ignore the appeals to stop the wrongdoing and abuse those trying to encourage changing their actions... problems will continue. If people start doing what they should, the problems will go away.

Happy to pass anything back the other way, this thread was mentioned multiple times during the evening and I'd never claim to speak on anyones behalf, but always happy to be a co-ordinator passing between.
 
Thanks mate, bullet points 3 and 4 are at least bit reassuring.

My main concern in this is what is the end game. How will they know if this crazy ban on selling tickets has been successful without a process to measure it appropriately.

Whats to say they lift the ban in a few weeks then the situation turns like it was previously.

How can the club be assured that they’ve rectified it without removing the contingencies they put in place to try to resolve it.

Just really pissed off with this whole situation and can’t help but think we are being unfairly targeted
 
Good to see the club engage on this. Overdue, but a step in the right direction.

Did they say what would need to happen for match day tickets to be sold on the kop and on what basis? (eg they need x number of games with no issues before it can go back to being available)?
 
Foxy said:
Was part of a meeting this evening in which representatives of SAG, SCC and Sheffield United were present, there will be more communications in the coming weeks, but my personal takeaway from what was said in summary (most of which has already been suggested in this thread) - This is by no means anything close to verbatim nor have I been asked to say particular things (we've never been in for that):

  • The crux of the issue and the most pressing matter, as speculated in this thread, is the migration and occupying of specific areas outside of an individuals ticket resulting in overcrowding, blockages and an unsafe environment. In plenty of observed examples this is 3/1 or higher. Talking particular areas at the back of the Kop and the gangways/exits.
  • The club have to tackle this, they can't simply ignore it and are ultimately responsible for safety of supporters, they want as many people in as possible, the best atmosphere possible, but have responsibilities to ensure that's in a safe manner.
  • I think by the very fact there is some dialogue beginning, they accept or think that perhaps it could have been handled differently or that the original message perhaps has been misunderstood in terms of meaning. At the very least, they want dialogue and a co-operation with supporters rather than "us and them".
  • SAG and SCC are currently working with the club, rather than against the club and have the same stated aims and can currently see that the club are taking the issue seriously and working towards improving things.
  • The first real games that are properly affected by the temporary changes are approaching and will help identify particular potential causes/assist in tackling the core problem.
  • The club are very unlikely to make any significant changes to the Kop on a piecemeal basis and anything of any consequence would be part of any larger redevelopment.
  • Safe standing, rail seats etc would all have to be part of larger redevelopment and regardless of a want, a budget or anything else, a HUGE prerequisite of any of that being allowed would be for the current setup running without the kind of current issues. Put simply, parachute some rail seats [spoiler, we can't] in and we'd still have the same issue and problem to tackle, just in the "safe standing" area, rather than the seated area.
  • Despite it seeming and "only targeting us" issue, other clubs are experiencing similar issues.
If people decide to ignore the appeals to stop the wrongdoing and abuse those trying to encourage changing their actions... problems will continue. If people start doing what they should, the problems will go away.

Happy to pass anything back the other way, this thread was mentioned multiple times during the evening and I'd never claim to speak on anyones behalf, but always happy to be a co-ordinator passing between.
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Was the idea of converting the family corner to rail seating mentioned? This would be an affordable solution that would relocate many who like to stand from the kop to a fully-standing area with more room and better facilities. As a result, the number of people wanting to move from their allocated kop seat to the top of the kop would be reduced.
 
Foxy said:
  • Safe standing, rail seats etc would all have to be part of larger redevelopment and regardless of a want, a budget or anything else, a HUGE prerequisite of any of that being allowed would be for the current setup running without the kind of current issues. Put simply, parachute some rail seats [spoiler, we can't] in and we'd still have the same issue and problem to tackle, just in the "safe standing" area, rather than the seated area.
  • Despite it seeming and "only targeting us" issue, other clubs are experiencing similar issues.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the crux of the problem. There will always be "issues" for SCC and the SAG. When a problem cannot be found, one shall be fabricated.

The council and their associated organisation are supportive of Sheffield United's efforts in the same way that the rope 'supports' the hanging man.

In summary: fuck them.
 
Surely parachuting in rail seating (even though we can't and it won't happen) would help alleviate the problem.

We need a larger section of the ground that has standing, and rail seating would control that.

Don't agree that the problems would stay the same. Some people that want to sit through games would move to seated areas of the ground. This makes it less likely that people congregate on gangways or pack into the very top of the kop.

Good to hear some positive news on this either way.
 
Woolford of Wall Street said:
And therein lies the crux of the problem. There will always be "issues" for SCC and the SAG. When a problem cannot be found, one shall be fabricated.

The council and their associated organisation are supportive of Sheffield United's efforts in the same way that the rope 'supports' the hanging man.

In summary: fuck them.
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It's quite literally just made it into the regulations that it can be considered, with pre-requisites, the same pre-requisites are applied nationwide.

But yeah, best thing to do to get what people want is to ignore the advice as to the journey there and whinge about it :)
 

AWetFlannel said:
Surely parachuting in rail seating (even though we can't and it won't happen) would help alleviate the problem.

We need a larger section of the ground that has standing, and rail seating would control that.

Don't agree that the problems would stay the same. Some people that want to sit through games would move to seated areas of the ground. This makes it less likely that people congregate on gangways or pack into the very top of the kop.

Good to hear some positive news on this either way.
Click to expand...

Well at the moment, ignoring the fact it won't happen without major redevelopment, I'd suggest the mythical parachuted in rail seating would reduce seating capacity whilst not giving the required standing capacity. So it's a self perpetuating issue.

All people that want to stand would want to be in the same areas, as they are now... if they can't stand where effectively a 'blind eye' has been turned to the ground regs, why are they suddenly going to give up because some can then stand within ground regs? :)
 
Foxy said:
Well at the moment, ignoring the fact it won't happen without major redevelopment, I'd suggest the mythical parachuted in rail seating would reduce seating capacity whilst not giving the required standing capacity. So it's a self perpetuating issue.

All people that want to stand would want to be in the same areas, as they are now... if they can't stand where effectively a 'blind eye' has been turned to the ground regs, why are they suddenly going to give up because some can then stand within ground regs? :)
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Good points in the 1st para.

I imagine there are some people that aren't set on standing in a specific area, but just want to be in the heart of the atmosphere which is standing. If that area was extended to half the kop, some would be happy to stand half way down.

But this is all hypothetical as you say, it aint going to happen.
 
Digs blade said:
And this is a key point, okay saying buy another seat but when they are all sold out this creates a problem.

Plenty of empty seats on the kop but unable to sell them and I bet there is no other club in the 92 that has had this situation thrust into them
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Where you erd this pal?....
bbc article on safe standing
"The initiative is part of a club trial after concerns over "persistent standing" of fans were raised in 2021."
"Following a review of the initial rail seating trial last season, we will now expand the trial and introduce rail seating in additional areas of the Kop to further address crowd safety and persistent standing in line with SGSA [Sports Grounds Safety Authority] guidance,"

Seems Liverpool took action without stopping ticket sales.
 
Digs blade said:
Thanks mate, bullet points 3 and 4 are at least bit reassuring.

My main concern in this is what is the end game. How will they know if this crazy ban on selling tickets has been successful without a process to measure it appropriately.

Whats to say they lift the ban in a few weeks then the situation turns like it was previously.

How can the club be assured that they’ve rectified it without removing the contingencies they put in place to try to resolve it.

Just really pissed off with this whole situation and can’t help but think we are being unfairly targeted
Click to expand...
You don't think anyone from the club can spot 35 people all stood round 3 seats?
 
Foxy said:
Was part of a meeting this evening in which representatives of SAG, SCC and Sheffield United were present, there will be more communications in the coming weeks, but my personal takeaway from what was said in summary (most of which has already been suggested in this thread) - This is by no means anything close to verbatim nor have I been asked to say particular things (we've never been in for that):

  • The crux of the issue and the most pressing matter, as speculated in this thread, is the migration and occupying of specific areas outside of an individuals ticket resulting in overcrowding, blockages and an unsafe environment. In plenty of observed examples this is 3/1 or higher. Talking particular areas at the back of the Kop and the gangways/exits.
  • The club have to tackle this, they can't simply ignore it and are ultimately responsible for safety of supporters, they want as many people in as possible, the best atmosphere possible, but have responsibilities to ensure that's in a safe manner.
  • I think by the very fact there is some dialogue beginning, they accept or think that perhaps it could have been handled differently or that the original message perhaps has been misunderstood in terms of meaning. At the very least, they want dialogue and a co-operation with supporters rather than "us and them".
  • SAG and SCC are currently working with the club, rather than against the club and have the same stated aims and can currently see that the club are taking the issue seriously and working towards improving things.
  • The first real games that are properly affected by the temporary changes are approaching and will help identify particular potential causes/assist in tackling the core problem.
  • The club are very unlikely to make any significant changes to the Kop on a piecemeal basis and anything of any consequence would be part of any larger redevelopment.
  • Safe standing, rail seats etc would all have to be part of larger redevelopment and regardless of a want, a budget or anything else, a HUGE prerequisite of any of that being allowed would be for the current setup running without the kind of current issues. Put simply, parachute some rail seats [spoiler, we can't] in and we'd still have the same issue and problem to tackle, just in the "safe standing" area, rather than the seated area.
  • Despite it seeming and "only targeting us" issue, other clubs are experiencing similar issues.
If people decide to ignore the appeals to stop the wrongdoing and abuse those trying to encourage changing their actions... problems will continue. If people start doing what they should, the problems will go away.

Happy to pass anything back the other way, this thread was mentioned multiple times during the evening and I'd never claim to speak on anyones behalf, but always happy to be a co-ordinator passing between.
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Interesting and positive to hear albeit nothing to cheer about yet.
We aren't the only club being targeted for this. And to be honest it's all about safety. Can't see why anyone can defend fans standing in the gangways it's asking for trouble.

I think the club need to perhaps drill the message home everywhere. Have notices all over the kop etc.
Need to be put simpler than this of course.

To put simply a seated stadium means to sit in your seat purchased.
Standing for periods of the game is allowed but where your seat is allocated.
You must not stand in and congregate in groups where it is not your seat or creating a standing group larger than the amount of seats the space occupies.
You must not congregate and block the gangways.

If we don't sort it out this could potentially mean a closure to the stand or a more permanent reduced capacity.

If we can prove we can tackle the issue we are more likely to be trusted to install rail seating in the future which is what some would prefer.
 
No standing area on the kop is going to happen anytime soon. because it will take a major development to do the job properly. Any work would have to be done in the close season. or do it the same way they have done at Anfield. build behind the stand. that way work can be done. without having to close areas inside the ground. stacks of room. behind the Kop. thats the only way I think in my humble opinion. I am sure I will be corrected on this. I know nothing about developing and building things.
 
Klaatu Barada Nikto said:
TLDR; go to your own fucking seat and siddarn.
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I'm probably looking at this too simplistically, or I'll get accused of being too boring or straightlaced or sumat else, but to my mind it's simple...

Buy your ticket, go to that seat. End of. If you want to be in that section, buy as close to it as you can.

Carry on as you are though, and you'll contribute to ruining it for everyone, yourselves included.
 
I'm surprised these dots haven't been joined up already but my view is:

The club know that the Kop is not oversold. Therefore crowding and blocking is obviously caused by ticket holders.

This first measure, ie preventing match ticket sales, will a) alleviate the pressure caused by this crowding and blocking as there will literally be fewer people on the Kop and b) it will confirm or disprove the idea that it's people without STs causing the issue.

If it still happens v Huddersfield and Coventry then it screams loud and clear that the problem is caused, partly or wholly by ST holders and the message isn't getting through.

However if we get through those games without issue, it suggests the issue is caused by non-ST holders and that ST holders also causing it have listened to the message.

At that point, we could also perhaps start considering selling small numbers of match tickets on the Kop. If the issue returns, we know it's caused by those small numbers. The club would know who they are, it's not difficult to identify if the specific seats sold aren't occupied.

There are lots of ideas on this thread and some of them are great. But right now there is a problem that needs solving. We're not in carrot and stick territory until the problem has gone.
 
Just sit in your designated seat and let us get as bigger crowds as possible.

I'm generally no fan of SAG and SCC haven't exactly been our best friends over my lifetime but this is straightforward.

Just stay in your designated seat/area.

Anyone who thinks this is unfair and thinks they can ignore it should be identified and dealt with for the good of the club.

This is going to cost us a lot of money and support between now and May.
 
It seems we are just hoping that United fans will be the only fans in the country not to stand at the back of the stand. It's a strategy, albeit an incredibly naive one. At least they acknowledge the dialogue problem.There's nothing else constructive there. I would question the statement re rail seating. This contradicts it:


www.bbc.co.uk

Liverpool to expand rail seat capacity to 10,000

Liverpool are to increase their rail seat capacity at Anfield to over 10,000 when the Premier League season resumes on 26 December.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
They will reopen the kop once an investigation has taken place once resolved kop tickets will be sold to fans again
 

Sit in the seat you’ve been given, it’s that simple. The people who stand in the gangways at the back should be easy to identify, there are signs up saying the Kop has cctv covering all the stand.
 
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