Doyle signs new contract

[Fiery Blade]

It's not the age thing with me it's the timing!
Doyle's missing three matches has definitely affected how United can play because we do not have a replacement and been reduced to playing reserve full backs in his position - the reason he is missing Gross Stupidity at Scunthorpe!
As Club and Team Captain Doyle should lead by example - to announce a new contract in the middle of a 3 match suspension is just another typical Sheffield United communications Faux Pas.
The guy should have been disciplined by the club not rewarded - they could have always announced it around Christmas when we had stormed to the top of the league on a scintillating run of victories!!!!
We need all the bodies we have at the moment in midfield because what we have spare are not very good - Doyle is no world beater but unfortunately he's the best we have at the moment!

 

[alcoblade]

For me, the big difference between this contract and the ones offered to Montgomery and Cresswell is that with the latter two, we had other options available at the club. With Doyle, we very clearly don't.

Exactly that, and about £12,000 per week difference.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

Look, I don't want to gt embroiled in this for ever. Quickly:

a) Who said anything about 40 year olds? What are you on about?

b) The burden of proof is on those that make the claim. Since you claim he'll be fine, you should have a reason to believe this (I've never said he definitively won't, since I don't know - just that it's likely). Since the majority of footballers can't hack it at 34, the statistical probability of Doyle being one of them is more likely to support my assertion.

c) Cresswell's 'excellent' season is subjective (he scored 1 in 5), and in any case, aerial target men don't have to be as mobile as defensive midfielders, which Cresswell unarguably isn't.

d) Morg's failure to recover might not have been age-related but it can't have helped.

We don't need to agonizingly turn over every point to know that three year contracts for old players are bad ideas when there is plenty of recent evidence to show they are very problematic down the line.

a) Relates to the comparison (from some on here) between players like Cresswell this season, who is incidentally now 35. Last season was very different
b) I don’t claim he’ll be fine, but what I do say is that given that he will have undergone a medical/ fitness assessment by the club, and he is in good shape then this is why the club have felt confident enough to give a 3 year deal.
c) And this one could drag on forever, Doyle also hasn’t picked up as many injuries and doesn’t spend the entire game getting battered by Centre Halves either.
d) We’ve seen no evidence to suggest age related issues with Morgs, let’s not try to shoehorn that into the argument. I’ve had two cruciate ops, My surgeon has never mentioned anything related to age (im the same age as Morgs), he’s mentioned problems with recovery, but nothing age related. He's actually said I'd be fine to return to the level of sport that I was at before the injuries and I've been working to get to that level without issues with the knee.

Doyle is 31, he’s not an “old” player (as it stands). He’s at the top end of his peak (Peak used to be 26-28).

Personally, I don’t think that by the time he is 34 he will be on the same contract or even with us.

I don’t get what you mean by recent evidence (of old players) are “very problematic down the line” who do you mean? I can’t think of anyone in this category.

The contractual problems that we have had in the last couple of years have been related to:
- Over inflated wages
- Salary/Turnover Ratio Restrictions

 

[Ollessendro]

Another lucrative contract for a very average player in the twlight of their career. No one else would take him, so we offer a 3 year deal. This is incredible. Have we learnt nothing?

Sadly this is a sign of where we are and what we have to come. I like Doyle. He has a footballing brain, works hard and is effective. He is a good 3rd tier player. Sadly he has never been able to cut it at 2nd tier level (nor will he as he goes into his early to mid 30's). This move just shows our lack of ambition and Wilson's lack of confidence he can get this team out of the division.

 

[secretchief]

a) Relates to the comparison (from some on here) between players like Cresswell this season, who is incidentally now 35. Last season was very different
b) I don’t claim he’ll be fine, but what I do say is that given that he will have undergone a medical/ fitness assessment by the club, and he is in good shape then this is why the club have felt confident enough to give a 3 year deal.
c) And this one could drag on forever, Doyle also hasn’t picked up as many injuries and doesn’t spend the entire game getting battered by Centre Halves either.
d) We’ve seen no evidence to suggest age related issues with Morgs, let’s not try to shoehorn that into the argument. I’ve had two cruciate ops, My surgeon has never mentioned anything related to age (im the same age as Morgs), he’s mentioned problems with recovery, but nothing age related. He's actually said I'd be fine to return to the level of sport that I was at before the injuries and I've been working to get to that level without issues with the knee.

Doyle is 31, he’s not an “old” player (as it stands). He’s at the top end of his peak (Peak used to be 26-28).

Personally, I don’t think that by the time he is 34 he will be on the same contract or even with us.

I don’t get what you mean by recent evidence (of old players) are “very problematic down the line” who do you mean? I can’t think of anyone in this category.

The contractual problems that we have had in the last couple of years have been related to:
- Over inflated wages
- Salary/Turnover Ratio Restrictions

a) So this has nothing to do with me or anything I said.

b) A calculated risk then. I suppose if, like you, he has found a way to reverse the ageing process, it will pay off! My guess is he will get slower and less sharp, which is what happens with the human body at around 32.

c) Let's leave it then.

d) Your surgeon was not Morg's surgeon, and you are not a professional footballer. I don't find your personal testimony compelling here. Older bodies don't heal as well as younger ones. I don't know why you would try to dispute this.

31 the top end of his peak? If he was a goalkeeper.

Morgs and Cressy were both offered long contracts at the end of their careers, and both of them bit us in the ass. You are in a very small minority if you don't consider either or both problematic.

 

[alcoblade]

Another lucrative contract for a very average player in the twlight of their career.

Really? How much are we paying him?

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

It is quite possible that Doyle, at 34, will be fine even at the end of the contracted period, especially if we stay in this division.

But I think those that were afraid of losing him, overestimate his attractiveness next summer. Even if he had a good season I don't think he'd get offers from Championship clubs, nor better financial deals from League One clubs. He does say that he loves it here, and in the end I think he would have been happy to sign one year extensions both in February/March 2013 and 2014.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Happy enough with this news. Solid player at this level and has Championship experience as well.

He's the captain and McDonald enjoys playing alongside him so its a no-brainer for me, need to keep him.

 

[Revolution]

Really? How much are we paying him?
I don't know, but the next time a good young prospect comes through it'll be described as a "crippling" amount.

 

[Ollessendro]

Really? How much are we paying him?

UTB

Think you know the answer to that. I'd hazard a guess of between 6-8k a week. That is pretty lucrative for a limited 3rd tier footballer, who is 31. Why not offer a 1 year extension with a view to extending it?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Happy enough with this news. Solid player at this level and has Championship experience as well.

He's the captain and McDonald enjoys playing alongside him so its a no-brainer for me, need to keep him.

If that's the sum of the arguments for and against, why didn't we give him a five year contract?

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

If that's the sum of the arguments for and against, why didn't we give him a ten year contract?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this one Bergs. Based on being a relatively solid performer and helping to get the best out of our most talented player....I think he's done enough for a contract extension.

He's been fairly consistent without being outstanding and there are a number of other players in the squad who wouldn't get near a shirt, never mind a new contract. By measure of comparison with his colleagues, Doyle is one of the most deserving imo.

 

[sitwell]

Scholes ,Lampard ,Phil neville,Gerrard, Giggs ,Carrick ,Delap,scott parker, Gera , all top class midfielders all running the midfield for premiership teams ,all older than Doyle. You need an experienced player in the middle ,Macdonald needs him ,34 is no age for an experienced midfielder. Cowans and McCall played brilliantly for us at an older age.

 

[SwissBlade]

a) So this has nothing to do with me or anything I said.

b) A calculated risk then. I suppose if, like you, he has found a way to reverse the ageing process, it will pay off!My guess is he will get slower and less sharp, which is what happens with the human body at around 32.

c) Let's leave it then.

d) Your surgeon was not Morg's surgeon, and you are not a professional footballer. I don't find your personal testimony compelling here. Older bodies don't heal as well as younger ones. I don't know why you would try to dispute this.

31 the top end of his peak? If he was a goalkeeper.

Morgs and Cressy were both offered long contracts at the end of their careers, and both of them bit us in the ass. You are in a very small minority if you don't consider either or both problematic.

a) I’m not sure, you know better than me what you wrote, sadly I don’t note exactly who said what in every post. There were a number of people talking of ageing players and not specifically the 34 years Doyle will be when his contract will expire
b) Yes its a calculated risk. I’m sure he will not be quite at his peak, I haven’t disputed this, it doesn’t mean that he still can’t do a job in a capacity that the manager wants him to.

d) You may not find my personal testimony compelling, but I was offering my experience of a similar injury and the information that I got back from my surgeon, I agree the situation was not the same. Admit it on this one, you just thought that Morgs suited your argument, but didn’t really have a clue why Morgs could not continue. I may not be a pro footballer, but I understand the injury pretty well. Not being a pro footballer is largely irrelevant.

Top end of his peak = its downhill from here.

I don’t consider either to be problematic, when we are talking of duration, not financial commitment. Cresswell is still playing regularly and in the 1st team, the duration has, as I understand it not been a problem. Perhaps you have further insite into this. The money was the issue.
Morgs got a career ending injury. The insurance will have taken care of the remainder of his contract. Cruciate injuries can and do occur at all stages of careers. This injury is no more likely to happen in older players than younger ones. So if Morgs had not had this injury he would/ should still be playing now. The injury was not related to his contract.

 

[Bergen Blade]

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this one Bergs. Based on being a relatively solid performer and helping to get the best out of our most talented player....I think he's done enough for a contract extension.

He's been fairly consistent without being outstanding and there are a number of other players in the squad who wouldn't get near a shirt, never mind a new contract. By measure of comparison with his colleagues, Doyle is one of the most deserving imo.

Maybe, and I don't like to come across as harsh and negative. I'll be delighted if Doyle keeps playing well for us until 2015. He was a vital part of the jigsaw last season.

But I still think it's a risk we didn't have to take at this stage, and it reminds me of things we've done in the past that have contributed to our downfall and restrictions. I don't think we should give contract extensions to reward players/because they've deserved it - only because we feel confident they're going to be important for us for the contract period they're offered.

 

[alcoblade]

Think you know the answer to that. I'd hazard a guess of between 6-8k a week. That is pretty lucrative for a limited 3rd tier footballer, who is 31. Why not offer a 1 year extension with a view to extending it?

I will bare my bare on the town hall steps if we're paying him that over 3 years. It's far more likely that, as has been suggested, we've offered him lower terms over a longer period, which gets us out of a short term hole and gives him some stability.

My point was that you're having a dig at the club for giving away a lucrative contract with no evidence whatsoever about how lucrative it is.

I've been extremely critical of the club in the past for giving out silly contracts. But that was evidenced by the repeated massive salary bills reported in the accounts. We have clearly moved on from those days. By how much is unknown, so I'm not prepared to blindly criticise the club.

We've had a dodgy start to the season. Enough evidence for many to conclude that Wilson's lost the plot and that the club is still determined to cripple itself finacially.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Scholes ,Lampard ,Phil neville,Gerrard, Giggs ,Carrick ,Delap,scott parker, Gera , all top class midfielders all running the midfield for premiership teams ,all older than Doyle. You need an experienced player in the middle ,Macdonald needs him ,34 is no age for an experienced midfielder. Cowans and McCall played brilliantly for us at an older age.

Unfortunately Cowans and McCall are better players even now than Doyle ever was, will be or dreamt he'd be - Doyle is a reasonable player at this level but has proven he can't hack it any anything above 3rd Division -I cannot believe you mentioned Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard et al in the same thread as Doyle!

 

[secretchief]

Ok, but believe it or not, I'm not basing my argument here on the objection that Doyle may get a career threatening injury at the end of his career. It's a small consideration to the fundamental problems it presents, being an unnecessarily long contract offered at the wrong time at the season to an ageing player. There is no reason to protect his contract, as Bergs has pointed out.

Creswell hasn't got much left to offer, it's there for all to see. Are you sure you want to use him as an example of best practice? He's old for a footballer. The fact he is still playing regularly and in the first team is part of the problem, for a variety of reasons. This was a direct consequence of giving him an overlong contract. Do we really want a 33-34 year old Doyle playing regularly in the first team? If not, why offer such a contract?

 

[alcoblade]

Do we really want a 33-34 year old Doyle playing regularly in the first team? If not, why offer such a contract?

Because it will be on reduced terms, spread over 3 years. It's more likely that someone else will pick up those reduced terms, hence he'd be "more" saleable.

The reduced terms help us meet financial fair play rules right now. The lengthier than we'd like contract helped get Doyle to sign it.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Scholes ,Lampard ,Phil neville,Gerrard, Giggs ,Carrick ,Delap,scott parker, Gera , all top class midfielders all running the midfield for premiership teams ,all older than Doyle. You need an experienced player in the middle ,Macdonald needs him ,34 is no age for an experienced midfielder. Cowans and McCall played brilliantly for us at an older age.

Agree with you that those are good players and that it's perfectly possible that Doyle can keep playing well at this level at 34.

 

[SwissBlade]

Ok, but believe it or not, I'm not basing my argument here on the objection that Doyle may get a career threatening injury at the end of his career. It's a small consideration to the fundamental problems it presents, being an unnecessarily long contract offered at the wrong time at the season to an ageing player. There is no reason to protect his contract, as Bergs has pointed out.

Creswell hasn't got much left to offer, it's there for all to see. Are you sure you want to use him as an example of best practice? He's old for a footballer. The fact he is still playing regularly and in the first team is part of the problem, for a variety of reasons. This was a direct consequence of giving him an overlong contract. Do we really want a 33-34 year old Doyle playing regularly in the first team? If not, why offer such a contract?

Ok you see it as an unnecessarily long contract, I just see it as securing our captain's services for at least the remainder of this season and next. I am not sure what his previous contract had to run, but I would assume a year. And as some have pointed out he may have taken a pay cut, which would make financial sense to us. But as we don't know this detail, its pointless to speculate the finances of the deal.

Do we want a 33-34 year old Doyle playing first team, I don't know. But if he can maintain his fitness, sharpness and form, then I see no reason not to. The contract term, as I alluded to much earlier in this thread is part and parcel of football. Effectively its a 2 year contract, because teh last year is always either negotiation time or they make their mind up to leave.

Cresswell was not an example that I raised, I was merely responding to many on here and any reference that I made to Cresswell related to his performances up to last season. He is now on a different contract.

The fact that Cresswell is still playing first team football is a different argument to what this thread is about.

 

[Ollessendro]

My point was that you're having a dig at the club for giving away a lucrative contract with no evidence whatsoever about how lucrative it is.

What do you think we are paying him then?

Regardless of what we are paying him, I consider it to be a lucrative contract. A 3 year deal for a 31 year old is pretty good. Especially when you are average. If I was demoted from a job after 6 months, then did well in my junior position for a year and was offered a 3 year deal (as I approach retirement) then I would be delighted. Think I might just call it lucrative.

Doyle has done well, but what about if we do get out of this godforsaken division. He'll be rendered useless. In the highly likely event we stay in this division a few years, then ok, but what about the likes of Harriot coming through. The length of the contract just baffles me. Perhaps if he has taken a significant cut (which I am very sceptical about) then this might make sense.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Maybe, and I don't like to come across as harsh and negative. I'll be delighted if Doyle keeps playing well for us until 2015. He was a vital part of the jigsaw last season.

But I still think it's a risk we didn't have to take at this stage, and it reminds me of things we've done in the past that have contributed to our downfall and restrictions. I don't think we should give contract extensions to reward players/because they've deserved it - only because we feel confident they're going to be important for us for the contract period they're offered.

I really dont see it as a big risk. I cant think of that many players at our level with the same experience that could do as good a job. He's effectively replaced Monty who is now off the wage bill, whilst taking a pay cut himself....win win imo.

As long as he maintains a good level of performance his age is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. At some point during the next three years he will probably have to compete for his place with the likes of Whitehouse or a new signing if we go up. If he falls down the pecking order in that time there would probably be one or two takers in our current division and his wages should no longer be a big obstacle.

Don't see any risk. He's a decent player and one we need for the forseeable.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I just see it as securing our captain's services for at least the remainder of this season and next.

See this is how I view it as well. Players often move on in the last year of their contract regardless of ability, age, experience etc.

It tends to be when their market value decreases and struggling teams look around for freebies or bargains.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

can i just say.
1 BRAD FRIEDEL 40
2 EVRA 31
3 VIDIC 31
4 CARRAGHER 34
5 JOHN ARNE RIISE 31
6 LAMPARD 34
7SCHOLES 38
8 GARETH BARRY 31
9 PETER CROUCH 31
10 MALOUDA 32
11 DAMIEN DUFF 33

Nuff said, I would have given him a 1 +1, Contract though.W hich 1 of these would we turn done by age well thats my lunch break fucked

 

[dublin 10 blade]

can i just say.
1 BRAD FRIEDEL 40
2 EVRA 31
3 VIDIC 31
4 CARRAGHER 34
5 JOHN ARNE RIISE 31
6 LAMPARD 34
7SCHOLES 38
8 GARETH BARRY 31
9 PETER CROUCH 31
10 MALOUDA 32
11 DAMIEN DUFF 33

Nuff said, I would have given him a 1 +1, Contract though.W hich 1 of these would we turn done by age well thats my lunch break fucked

 

[dublin 10 blade]

SORRY FOR POSTING TWICE LAP-TOP TOLD ME IT WAS'NT SENT FIRST TIME HUMBLE APOLIGIE'S

 

[sheffielder]

I imagine the contract negotations were very short.

DW - We want to give you a 2 year renewal however on reduced terms.

Doyle realising that there is nowhere he could go to get the contract he is on right now said 'ok, but I want 3 years'

 

[sheffielder]

See this is how I view it as well. Players often move on in the last year of their contract regardless of ability, age, experience etc.

It tends to be when their market value decreases and struggling teams look around for freebies or bargains.

I believe he will become another Cresswell by then. We need experience around to bring on the kids (if they ever get played cough)

 

[Bergen Blade]

I really dont see it as a big risk. I cant think of that many players at our level with the same experience that could do as good a job. He's effectively replaced Monty who is now off the wage bill, whilst taking a pay cut himself....win win imo.

As long as he maintains a good level of performance his age is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. At some point during the next three years he will probably have to compete for his place with the likes of Whitehouse or a new signing if we go up. If he falls down the pecking order in that time there would probably be one or two takers in our current division and his wages should no longer be a big obstacle.

Don't see any risk. He's a decent player and one we need for the forseeable.

If he played well and kept his place we would have easily benefitted from that with the alternative suggestion of offering him new one year deals in winter/spring 2013 and 2014. That is win-win

It seems that a lot think of it as completely unthinkable, but IF it happened that he started playing poorly (like Cresswell), got hit by injuries (like Morgan), lost his place (like Monty), or the club moved up to a level where he'd no longer perform (like Unsworth, Akinbiyi, Shipperley, Short and Horsfield), or moved down a level where his wages would be too high (Evans, Quinn +++!),the club would have the option of releasing him and avoided him being an uneccessary expense for too long.

If I am nasty to Doyle for saying that, then I am also being nice to the player that we may afford to bring in if the latter scenario happens. In any case I just want Sheffield United to make the best possible decisions.