Do you trust Wilder to rebuild the squad?

[Snowflake]

No. He did OK for us on loan, a few goals and a willingness to run around but I don't think he's good enough. His first touch isn't great, he doesn't look up enough and whilst I thank him for all his efforts, it's a no from me.

I’m not great with stats but I think he has scored more goals perPL appearance for us than anyone else.
If he wants to come back to England I think there will be lower PL teams who will take him.

 

[Nick Jansky]

You don’t trust wilder with youth players is arguably the most stupid thing you’ve ever written.

Wilder has sold and been involved with DCL and David Brooks sales. He has come straight back in and started Andre Brooks and brought in Arblaster as the previous manager decided he wasn’t good enough to play for Sheffield United. Wilder was trying to get Illiman to sign a new deal before he was sacked.

We earnt huge profit on Ramsdale within one season.

Some of Wilder’s best signings have been players who are young like Henderson and JoC.

Your agenda is not personal just idiotic. Your point has been destroyed. I have no problem in you deleting it from your post and pretending you didn’t say the most stupidest thing on this forum.

Making things up again with no knowledge of the realities that sit behind certain situations, I see.

And apart from that you are becoming a real bore with your myopic assertions that Wilder is somehow the one true messiah. Taking any sort of balanced view isn’t exactly your strong point is it?

 

[Carlton Blade]

I keep reading this nonsense. And it is complete bullshit. Many bright young coaches would jump at the chance to work for us. The Pigs attracted Danny Rohl when they were in a far worse situation, FFS. Do you really think Rob Edwards wouldn’t have come to us before he joined Luton?

I do think the burden placed on United (and Wednesday's) 1st team boss rules out a large number of candidates.

Not saying Wilder is the best choice, I'm leaning towards next season being a difficult one but it's impossible to know because so much change is coming. But the chances of a young coach handling everything about to be thrown at the United manager after the final whistle v Spurs are slim. I do, ideally, think it needs to be someone who's handled a complete rebuild before

 

[Bladezz]

Making things up again with no knowledge of the realities that sit behind certain situations, I see.

And apart from that you are becoming a real bore with your myopic assertions that Wilder is somehow the one true messiah. Taking any sort of balanced view isn’t exactly your strong point is it?

I made valid points regarding the initial point of ‘Wilder isn’t any good with youth players’.

I made balanced points with examples showing ability to increase players value… selling youth players… youth players willing to come back to us…. Huge profits…. Throwing the youth into the side and giving them prominent roles.

This is nothing to do with Wilder as a manager overall. You’re entitled to an opinion. But no one with some thinking can say Wilder isn’t good with young players.

But you’ve taken a chance to come and take a dig at me with no argument or basis. Just an attack on myself. Which is fine I don’t care but weird if your looking a debate.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Haha.

In his first stint at the club the only player promoted through the youth academy was David Brooks, and we sold DCL for 1.5m, Ramsdale for 1m (then brought back for 18m), and Che Adams for 3m. Nydiae was at the club but didn’t play until after Wilder left. Hecky then promoted Osula, Heckford, and Jebbison.

Brooks was already playing prior to Wilder coming in. This has been a great opportunity to promote other young players as the season has gone but the only one who has played has been Blaster who has clearly been put in the shop window to sell at the first opportunity.

Absolute twaddle. Post from someone blinded by what was happening at the time by ignoring the fact the teams they were trying to get in were mostly busy getting promoted, or the player sold to fund promotion winning teams.
Ramsdale, DCL, Adam’s were sacrificed as they alone would t have impacted the squads they were in enough to get us up.

As for Hecky- yes he brought those kids in, but the professional he is he would t openly admit it was because he had no choice. Are any of them ready?? Osula has head plenty of game time…Jebbo injured but apart from a brief spell at Burton has done nothing when given chances that are worthy of him being a shoe in. Hackford….ffs you’re scraping the barrel. Another not ready and can’t make it where he’s on loan at the moment!!

Illy- nobody knows what was going off with him, but the suggestion is he was banned from playing due to refusing to sign a new deal. That ended when Slav arrived, Wilder had been gone months.

Interesting you ignore some other players who got game time under wilder…Slater? There are more but you ignore them of course.

So rather than spouting hysterical bollocks, let’s have some perspective and reality. If they are good enough they will play…don’t forget we sent Blaster on loan when he’s our best midfielder…is that Wilders fault too?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Real conundrum for me is this.

His recruitment with higher value purchases has been, and I wont stand on ceremony here, nothing short of abysmal.

If I was the owner, I’d have to be taking this in to account.

That said, if he plucks out a few Duffy, JOC, Fleck type signings out the bag ……………….

We will see !

UTB

 

[Snowflake]

I don’t really get the part of your argument about it being ‘too late’. Surely it’s better to start next season with the right man in place than just throwing good money after bad with Wilder?

There has to be a break in Wilder’s contract at the end of the season otherwise we really are ‘club retard’. Thank him for trying but let someone with a bit less of an entrenched view on football have a go.

He was good 2016-2019 and has been poor wherever he’s been since.

I wouldn’t want Wilder and his Bladey pal Jamie Hoyland spending my money, it just reeks of the backwards mentality of the club and some of its supporters.

Get someone fresh in, give them a season or 2 to embed a new style.

I understand the concerns, but given that we are unlikely to capture in the next 6 weeks any experienced manager capable of doing what you suggest then we run the risk of gambling on inexperience in the hope we unearth the next “Wilder”.
I feel we should allow his knowledge of the club and the existing squad to begin the rebuild this summer. If that follows the path that you are concerned about then we have time to seek a suitable replacement.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I made valid points regarding the initial point of ‘Wilder isn’t any good with youth players’.

I made balanced points with examples showing ability to increase players value… selling youth players… youth players willing to come back to us…. Huge profits…. Throwing the youth into the side and giving them prominent roles.

This is nothing to do with Wilder as a manager overall. You’re entitled to an opinion. But no one with some thinking can say Wilder isn’t good with young players.

But you’ve taken a chance to come and take a dig at me with no argument or basis. Just an attack on myself. Which is fine I don’t care but weird if your looking a debate.

You said:

“brought in Arblaster as the previous manager decided he wasn’t good enough to play for Sheffield United”

Factually incorrect. But you carry on doing these things. It’s your credibility that gets shredded.

Are you sure that being told that having to play the youngsters wasn’t a condition of Wilder returning, by the way?

Things are never as black and white as you, in particular, try to paint them. You completely lack any balance. A shame, as it undermines the good points you make.

 

[Ralph Blade]

Yes, rather him than a completely new face. He gets to start early with his rebuild rather than it be left until the season is nearly starting, or even started. He doesn’t have to take more time assessing the current squad to know where to focus his effort.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Yes.

Give Wilder the first part of next season and then take stock. If we looked to hire anyone else now it really is back to square 1 re who they think should stay, who goes, probably a clean slate given to some complete wasters who deserve to be shown the door etc.

He needs to stay and be given a chance to turn it around and build a new squad. I understand others thinking differently though. It not ideal, but I think CW has the hunger to get on with the job and turn it around.

But does he have the ability to turn it around.
Ability is for more important than hunger, I would certainly have the hunger probably wouldn't have the ability though..
Although thinking about it I couldn't have done much worse this season.

 

[Bladezz]

You said:

“brought in Arblaster as the previous manager decided he wasn’t good enough to play for Sheffield United”

Factually incorrect. But you carry on doing these things. It’s your credibility that gets shredded.

Are you sure that being told that having to play the youngsters wasn’t a condition of Wilder returning, by the way?

Things are never as black and white as you, in particular, try to paint them. You completely lack any balance. A shame, as it undermines the good points you make.

The previous manager deemed him not good enough to be involved with the Sheffield United first team for a premier league campaign and thought his development would be better at a mid table league one side. That is a fact as can be shown by a loan to Port Vale. Otherwise he would have had him around the squad like he did with Osula etc. We all remember the start of the season where we had the worst midfield ever and Blaster wasn’t even involved then.

The other manager brought him back and started him and then made him captain.

The original point was in regards too ‘Wilder isn’t good with youth’ which is nonsense.

 

[TJ blade]

Unfortunately the performances under Wilder are really no better than Heckys. I appreciate the quality of players he inherited. I think a big clear out is needed from the top to the bottom. We have some good youngsters who need to be given a chance, but developed sensibly. Then a splattering of experience and a few quality ones. It's really not rocket science

Agree, apart from the quality one, it costs money and the skint owners brassic. Hang on to your hats! It's going to get even tougher next season

 

[Nick Jansky]

The previous manager deemed him not good enough to be involved with the Sheffield United first team for a premier league campaign and thought his development would be better at a mid table league one side. That is a fact as can be shown by a loan to Port Vale. Otherwise he would have had him around the squad like he did with Osula etc. We all remember the start of the season where we had the worst midfield ever and Blaster wasn’t even involved then.

The other manager brought him back and started him and then made him captain.

The original point was in regards too ‘Wilder isn’t good with youth’ which is nonsense.

I haven’t commented on the point regarding Wilder being good or not with young players.

The undeniable fact is that you have no clue of the various conversations had and decisions made by various parties regarding Ollie’s development this season. So, out of ignorance, you attempt to use it as a stick to beat Hecky with. Which I find laughable. There are other sticks to beat him with, but not this one.

But having said that, I enjoy pointing out the occasions where I know you to be wrong (which is different to having a different opinion) so carry on

 

[Bladezz]

I haven’t commented on the point regarding Wilder being good or not with young players.

The undeniable fact is that you have no clue of the various conversations had and decisions made by various parties regarding Ollie’s development this season. So, out of ignorance, you attempt to use it as a stick to beat Hecky with. Which I find laughable. There are other sticks to beat him with, but not this one.

But having said that, I enjoy pointing out the occasions where I know you to be wrong (which is different to having a different opinion) so carry on

Conversations are irrelevant. Facts are what are prevalent here. You can have your opinion that “Hecky rated him” but his actions showed he didn’t.

I don’t need a stick to beat Hecky with he is the history of this club. My comments were in regards Wilders with youth. You jumped onto a conversation and decided to make it about Hecky.

I understand you want him to have credit for Blaster. But this isn’t the conversation here. So carry on.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

What’s not to get? How clear do you want it??
Did we give Slav that time? What would have happened if we had?? He needed players, lots of new ones to replace those unable to play his way.
He also had IN, Berge and MGW!! All players head and shoulders better than any other contracted player we have in their positions! Yet the club got him in and pretty much gave him nowt. You think a new manager now would get any budget to remould it?? You’re in cuckoo land.

Another point- key decisions have already been made, contracts being one, but the other is as you point out- Hoyland.
You think he’s been sat on his hands in the month he arrived?
You don’t believe the manager saying they are talking to players and agents etc? Players hoped to play a certain way that Wilder has deemed necessary.
And you want that to completely stop in a couple of weeks while competitors in the champ crack on planning and getting a march on players who may be OOC while we take weeks to recruit another new manager!!

By then our players have gone and everyone is on a beach for a month.
One of the main reasons this club is in the shit is delays.
The time it takes to recruit players kills us, and that’s once we’ve identified targets!

Replace Wilder at the end of the season and we will be starting the season woefully underprepared. And after the season we’ve had, morale of those left is already gone.

What we need now is some early player arrivals to set some benchmarks, so that any prospective loans will look at us as contenders rather than the laughingstock we are presently.

Final points- you think this owner has the ability to pick a new manager? Bettis?? The joke of a board?? They haven’t hired one manager yet who’s worked, Hecky was brought here by Wilder.
You think he has money to swoop in and compensate a club for one employed?? Or is it likely we get an unemployed again??
Have you or any of the other Wilder out mob actually identified a manager who we realistically get?
Because it’s all just pie in the sky, calling for a change but not having any ideas or solutions to the problems listed.

So, I stand by my point. the time for complete change in direction was probs October…not December btw.After the first major drubbing. He’d sold the players Hecky wanted and failed to bring n others he’d wanted. UW and his fuckwits were rampant in hiring shite and look where it got us, yet some folk are happy it seems for their incompetence to be replicated further!!!

So basically you are saying Wilder has us by the short and curly's.
At what point next season do we ask him too release his grip on our bollocks and leave via which ever door he fancies this time ?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Conversations are irrelevant. Facts are what are prevalent here. You can have your opinion that “Hecky rated him” but his actions showed he didn’t.

I don’t need a stick to beat Hecky with he is the history of this club. My comments were in regards Wilders with youth. You jumped onto a conversation and decided to make it about Hecky.

I understand you want him to have credit for Blaster. But this isn’t the conversation here. So carry on.

Again, factually incorrect. But you’re getting boring again now, so we’ll let others be the judge of the credibility of many of the opinions you put forward as facts, that’s what forums are for.

Have a lovely day

 

[finlaytheblade]

Wilder's pre prem recruitment was the best I've seen from any club/management team outside the Prem. If we got that again it'd beyond my wildest dreams. My doubts are more around funding and the newer recruitment model. Whoever has been signing our players this season has no idea what they're doing. All the players we've punted on abroad are shit and the average fan on the kop could've signed our domestic signings. Mitchell has left - he was was a key part of Wilder 1.0. I have zero faith beyond that I hold in Wilder/Knill. I doubt they have the power to recruit like they did last time if they wanted too. I think they hold less power, with nobody I trust taking any of that power from them

Hoyland is part of the new set up! Give it chance

 

[Grizzly blade]

So basically you are saying Wilder has us by the short and curly's.
At what point next season do we ask him too release his grip on our bollocks and leave via which ever door he fancies this time ?

If you like Yes.

Or you could say the Prince has got us all by the bollox.

I’d love to know how Wilders return came about, because I suspect our owner realised pretty quickly he couldn’t afford any other option but to invite Wilder in.

Whatever happens next season the path has been laid in December last year.
We’ve already had quoted “it’s 2-4 transfer windows to put this right” (I think it was without checking) so the timescales have been given. And that will suit our owner fine as he can’t afford otherwise!

which other manager puts their reputation and career on the line for this club under circumstances where a major rebuild is needed but you still have to sell players and look to the free and loan market, while also operating a wage structure from the bottom half of your future division? Name one…because I think you’ll struggle to find one the fans would support and is likely to have the ability to do it.

Honestly, I think we will be shite next season…we will struggle from the off. But Wilder will probably keep us up in the end. And I suspect that is acceptable to the owner, so unless we are as bad as this season next season come February I see him here til the end of next season at least.

By then we need to hope we find a reputable new owner, other wise it’ll be more of the same.

I’m hoping Wilder does have more strings to his bow and will prove me and many others wrong, that’s all I have to cling to with this shit show at the moment.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

The previous manager deemed him not good enough to be involved with the Sheffield United first team for a premier league campaign and thought his development would be better at a mid table league one side. That is a fact as can be shown by a loan to Port Vale. Otherwise he would have had him around the squad like he did with Osula etc. We all remember the start of the season where we had the worst midfield ever and Blaster wasn’t even involved then.

The other manager brought him back and started him and then made him captain.

The original point was in regards too ‘Wilder isn’t good with youth’ which is nonsense.

Maybe the loan at Port Vale improved him and maybe Heckingbottom would also have brought him back in January if he had still been here.
And Maybe Wilder would also have sent him out on loan at the start of the season if he had been in charge..

 

[Broomhall Blade]

If you like Yes.

Or you could say the Prince has got us all by the bollox.

I’d love to know how Wilders return came about, because I suspect our owner realised pretty quickly he couldn’t afford any other option but to invite Wilder in.

Whatever happens next season the path has been laid in December last year.
We’ve already had quoted “it’s 2-4 transfer windows to put this right” (I think it was without checking) so the timescales have been given. And that will suit our owner fine as he can’t afford otherwise!

which other manager puts their reputation and career on the line for this club under circumstances where a major rebuild is needed but you still have to sell players and look to the free and loan market, while also operating a wage structure from the bottom half of your future division? Name one…because I think you’ll struggle to find one the fans would support and is likely to have the ability to do it.

Honestly, I think we will be shite next season…we will struggle from the off. But Wilder will probably keep us up in the end. And I suspect that is acceptable to the owner, so unless we are as bad as this season next season come February I see him here til the end of next season at least.

By then we need to hope we find a reputable new owner, other wise it’ll be more of the same.

I’m hoping Wilder does have more strings to his bow and will prove me and many others wrong, that’s all I have to cling to with this shit show at the moment.

Bloody hell it's a good job you weren't in charge of selling season tickets

Just one thing you said the Prince needs Premiership money in an earlier post so surely it makes sense to go for it abit next season, because for me next season will be our best chance of going up with the teams that are coming down.
The reason I say this is because I can see some big clubs coming down next season.

 

[Bladezz]

Maybe the loan at Port Vale improved him and maybe Heckingbottom would also have brought him back in January if he had still been here.
And Maybe Wilder would also have sent him out on loan at the start of the season if he had been in charge..

Wilder nearly did a big mistake like this. If you remember David brooks was scheduled to go on loan to Chesterfield. Luckily Wilder saw him in training and cancelled the loan and then put him into the first team.

I would be the same next season if Hackford comes back from his League one and scores loads in the championship. Wilder should be criticised for it.

But again people are coming at different things here. My original post was in relation to Wilder being good with youth players. Nothing to do with Hecky. People have zoned in on the Arblaster point but that was one of a few points.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Do Wilders "duds" outgun his "guds".

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wilder nearly did a big mistake like this. If you remember David brooks was scheduled to go on loan to Chesterfield. Luckily Wilder saw him in training and cancelled the loan and then put him into the first team.

I would be the same next season if Hackford comes back from his League one and scores loads in the championship. Wilder should be criticised for it.

But again people are coming at different things here. My original post was in relation to Wilder being good with youth players. Nothing to do with Hecky. People have zoned in on the Arblaster point but that was one of a few points.

It was Wilder that was sending Brooks to Chesterfield. A good performance for England in Toulon watched by, iirc Knill and an Academy coach, who suggested we keep him and use him. Stop trying to rewrite history to prove a point.

 

[Foxy]

maybe Heckingbottom would also have brought him back in January if he had still been here.

This.

 

[Bladezz]

It was Wilder that was sending Brooks to Chesterfield. A good performance for England in Toulon watched by, iirc Knill and an Academy coach, who suggested we keep him and use him. Stop trying to rewrite history to prove a point.

I clearly explained he was heading to Chesterfield and if he went there it would have been just as bad as Blaster to Port Vale.

The result was the correct one. We didn’t loan him and was thrown into the first team. So it would be seen as nearly a mistake and I would agree with you.

Would have been an awful awful mistake but listened to people around him and the correct decision was made.

Same would be the case if Hackford scored 20 in league one. I would be saying why has he been loaned out and that it’s a mistake.

No rewriting history I agree with you 100%.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I clearly explained he was heading to Chesterfield and if he went there it would have been just as bad as Blaster to Port Vale.

The result was the correct one. We didn’t loan him and was thrown into the first team. So it would be seen as nearly a mistake and I would agree with you.

Would have been an awful awful mistake but listened to people around him and the correct decision was made.

Same would be the case if Hackford scored 20 in league one. I would be saying why has he been loaned out and that it’s a mistake.

No rewriting history I agree with you 100%.

But your point was that Wilder “rescued” (my word) Brooks when he was the one who decided he could go to the Woolly backs in the first place. He would have struggled to see him in training when Schoolboy Looks was in France performing to a level where United staff told Wilder to keep him.

 

[djbaldken]

Alex Ferguson was once asked ' what makes a good manager?' His reply being 'buy good players'.
Wilder, or any incoming manager, will NEVER be given the money to buy good players.

 

[Bladezz]

But your point was that Wilder “rescued” (my word) Brooks when he was the one who decided he could go to the Woolly backs in the first place. He would have struggled to see him in training when Schoolboy Looks was in France performing to a level where United staff told Wilder to keep him.

You’re arguing around the decision process which I don’t know the ins and outs of, but you seem to have real deep insider knowledge on this topic. So I am unable to comment.

But the decision that was with Brooks was the correct one which is good for all parties.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You’re arguing around the decision process which I don’t know the ins and outs of, but you seem to have real deep insider knowledge on this topic. So I am unable to comment.

But the decision that was with Brooks was the correct one which is good for all parties.

It didn’t stop you commenting when discussing the Brooks issue. You seemed quite clear as to what happened. Now it’s been shown to be inaccurate rather than admit you are wrong you play with words. Recurring theme l’m afraid.

 

[Bladezz]

It didn’t stop you commenting when discussing the Brooks issue. You seemed quite clear as to what happened. Now it’s been shown to be inaccurate rather than admit you are wrong you play with words. Recurring theme l’m afraid.

No my friend you are mistaken yet again.

My initial point that you keep ignoring is that the comment was about Wilder not being good with the youth.

Then it went down a path of Arblaster being loaned out to league one and Brooks “nearly” being loaned out to league one.

Your point that I agree with is that Wilder nearly made a terrible decision. Hecky made a terrible decision.

Just based on the facts that one loaned out one of our better players and one nearly did. You added some clarity so I appreciate that and agree with you again. Not often we agree so not sure why you’re trying to keep attacking my point.