CW now 4/9, in from 3-1 just 20 mins ago?

[Bladesman]

The fact that there is no news, is probably good news. I was expecting to read an announcement any minute based on rumours but plese to hear nothing.

I'd have expected him to walk earlier today or yesterday if he was off.

The Moose news won't have helped and I would have expected something to happpen off the back of that.

 

[Slug]

The market was still open after Southampton and Liverpool had kicked off.

It was down at 8pm, the usual Monday Night Football kick off time.

 

[hull-Blade]

The fact that there is no news, is probably good news. I was expecting to read an announcement any minute based on rumours but plese to hear nothing.

Let’s bloody hope so . As crap as the season has been , i do believe he is the man to put it right again .

Don’t go Chris . UTB

 

[gaffablade]

We clearly need a Director of Football. He can’t spend money

Absolutely

 

[Upton_Blade]

funnily enough, I was going to say something about that. Big Jim mentions a dof on more than one occasion in his tweets and if Wilder has walked maybe it's because he refuses to work with one? Rumours were that the Prince had tried to bring in van Winckel previously and he kicked off.

At the time he point blank refused to work with one he was riding the crest of a wave and almost untouchable.

Unfortunately that is no longer the case and if PA wants a DOF so his money is spent better then CW can't really complain at this point in time.

If working under a DOF is CW's red line then he may find his options for employment in the future severely limited as they are no longer jut at the biggest clubs. Based on the news today even Fleetwood have one.

 

[MalvernBlade]

So the fax machine works now?

Just a rumour

 

[N20 Blade]

The market was still open after Southampton and Liverpool had kicked off.

Unrelated market

 

[designedbyross]

Fwiw, the market is back open now the Southampton game has finished. Odds 2/7

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Definitely need a DoF

 

[Davalon]

If we replace Wilder with Joey Barton it will be the lowest point in my 40's years following us.

That's a genuine comment not hyperbole.

The saddest I've felt losing a manager, replaced by one of the biggest cunts in football, all whilst we're on our worst start to a season ever.

Thankfully I think the Barton link is bollocks but maybe not the former

 

[Booker4]

For those that want a DoF, does that mean we get a higher wage structure? If not I don't see the benefit, partly because Wilder doesn't srike me as the type to want a DoF above him, and therefore he's earned the trust of the board to continue without one in my view. Even with thi current run. I think Wilder would walk if the Prince insisted on that!

Before someone adds that a DoF would or could have contacts in the game to bring in players that we maybe don;t currently know, do we need a DoF to do that, or maybe we just need a higher wage structure, or improved scouting. If we can't afford either than fine, it's not like Wilder's not done well on his own until this season and he's been badly let down by a number of factors as we all know.

 

[Champagneblade]

Alan Biggs is worried

I should think he is. Have you seen the state of his Conservatory?

 

[AdamSufc1997]

For those that want a DoF, does that mean we get a higher wage structure? If not I don't see the benefit, partly because Wilder doesn't srike me as the type to want a DoF above him, and therefore he's earned the trust of the board to continue without one in my view. Even with thi current run. I think Wilder would walk if the Prince insisted on that!

Before someone adds that a DoF would or could have contacts in the game to bring in players that we maybe don;t currently know, do we need a DoF to do that, or maybe we just need a higher wage structure, or improved scouting. If we can't afford either than fine, it's not like Wilder's not done well on his own until this season and he's been badly let down by a number of factors as we all know.

Might not get a higher wage structure but sure as hell get more value for money, Van Winkel supposed to have contacts in the game. If not a DoF we need better scouting and unfortunately if it is Paul Mitchell who is doing that job i'm afraid we need someone better

 

[Mouth of the South]

For those that want a DoF, does that mean we get a higher wage structure? If not I don't see the benefit, partly because Wilder doesn't srike me as the type to want a DoF above him, and therefore he's earned the trust of the board to continue without one in my view. Even with thi current run. I think Wilder would walk if the Prince insisted on that!

Before someone adds that a DoF would or could have contacts in the game to bring in players that we maybe don;t currently know, do we need a DoF to do that, or maybe we just need a higher wage structure, or improved scouting. If we can't afford either than fine, it's not like Wilder's not done well on his own until this season and he's been badly let down by a number of factors as we all know.

Just throwing more money at it is unlikely to work as a solution - see the signings of Ramsdale and Brewster as case-in-point. Both are players CW wanted and got at considerable cost. Given their very limited success and demonstration of value for money, I personally feel the Board are very much within their rights to question how the club's resources are being utilised and assess whether improvements could be made.

Personally, I feel CW made catasprophic errors in not recruiting adequate cover for JOC and adding better quality and creativity in midfield, particularly at RCM over summer. Furthermore, I have little to no confidence the current squad would be good enough to achieve promotion next season.

It's CW prerogative of he refuses (again) to work with a DoF if that is indeed what the Board are looking to do but it's difficult to argue that the current model is working even when overall budgets and the (lack of) quality of academy are considered.

 

[Bladesman]

Just throwing more money at it is unlikely to work as a solution - see the signings of Ramsdale and Brewster as case-in-point. Both are players CW wanted and got at considerable cost. Given their very limited success and demonstration of value for money, I personally feel the Board are very much within their rights to question how the club's resources are being utilised and assess whether improvements could be made.

Personally, I feel CW made catasprophic errors in not recruiting adequate cover for JOC and adding better quality and creativity in midfield, particularly at RCM over summer. Furthermore, I have little to no confidence the current squad would be good enough to achieve promotion next season.

It's CW prerogative of he refuses (again) to work with a DoF if that is indeed what the Board are looking to do but it's difficult to argue that the current model is working even when overall budgets and the (lack of) quality of academy are considered.

My other thought is Wilder would prefer to focus on improving the academy and its status to help attract youngsters. That said this still could go hand and in hand with having a DoF to help with that.

I have been against DoF myself for similar reasons to Chris that they can undermine the manager and what he wants to build. Although it seems having a DoF does help at this level of football.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The DOF model is massively overrated and a failure almost everywhere it's been tried; particularly with small to middling clubs. United have a similar system in place with the transfer committee so its unlikely to be the huge operational development some seem to think it'll be anyway.

 

[Mouth of the South]

The DOF model is massively overrated and a failure almost everywhere it's been tried; particularly with small to middling clubs. United have a similar system in place with the transfer committee so its unlikely to be the huge operational development some seem to think it'll be anyway.

Do you feel the transfer committee in its current form is delivering the best possible bang for its buck?

 

[nopigfansintown]

Do you feel the transfer committee in its current form is delivering the best possible bang for its buck?

Over the last four years it's been phenomenally successful, yes. Over the last three windows, less so - although a clear argument can be made in favour of every window being successful bar the last one (due to league positions, wealth accumulation etc). Personnel on that committee have changed over time, so it's difficult to make definitive judgements either way. You'd have to find the precise make up of every committee for every window. It should be remembered that it was Clough's defenestration after he went "rogue" during his last summer window that took much of the power away from the manager re transfers (this is, of course, pre Wilder). When he got the job Wilder already had less power than all the comparative autocrats that preceded him in the manager's chair.

The suggestion I'm hearing is that we should disband the committee (rather than replacing personnel on it) and give the power solely to a director of football. I'm not convinced that is in any way wise. You are in many ways reanimating United's system under Clough - giving the power purely to one man, only this time this individual isn't the manager. People keep mentioning old Rip; my question to them: ( 1) don't you think Berge, Restos, Verrips, Zivkovic etc have his fingerprints all over them? (2) If yes, isn't he having sufficient influence anyway? (3) How are these players working out for you - do they inspire you to give him carte blanche?

 

[Champagneblade]

Might not get a higher wage structure but sure as hell get more value for money, Van Winkel supposed to have contacts in the game. If not a DoF we need better scouting and unfortunately if it is Paul Mitchell who is doing that job i'm afraid we need someone better

You do know that Van Winkel is already in the transfer committee don't you?

 

[Mouth of the South]

Over the last four years it's been phenomenally successful, yes. Over the last three windows, less so - although a clear argument can be made in favour of every window being successful bar the last one (due to league positions, wealth accumulation etc). Personnel on that committee have changed over time, so it's difficult to make definitive judgements either way. You'd have to find the precise make up of every committee for every window. It should be remembered that it was Clough's defenestration after he went "rogue" during his last summer window that took much of the power away from the manager re transfers (this is, of course, pre Wilder). When he got the job Wilder already had less power than all the comparative autocrats that preceded him in the manager's chair.

The suggestion I'm hearing is that we should disband the committee (rather than replacing personnel on it) and give the power solely to a director of football. I'm not convinced that is in any way wise. You are in many ways reanimating United's system under Clough - giving the power purely to one man, only this time this individual isn't the manager. People keep mentioning old Rip; my question to them: ( 1) don't you think Berge, Restos, Verrips, Zivkovic etc have his fingerprints all over them? (2) If yes, isn't he having sufficient influence anyway? (3) How are these players working out for you - do they inspire you to give him carte blanche?

I'm not sure anyone is advocating all power and decision making authority barring first team coaching and selection being stripped from CW and transferred to another single person.

I take your point on the success of the transfer committee since CW joined but I would also highlight its diminishing level of success to the point where serious questions should indeed be asked over the most recent window's activity and the somewhat blinkered approach to seemingly only consider (very young) UK players, paying a hefty premium and realising poor returns as a result, with little experience and leadership being demonstrated.

Like it or not but the current league position and especially this season's points return does provide a strong case that the current approach is no longer fit for purpose and that changes are required. However, with so little known about the transfer committee's non-visible activities, it is difficult for outsiders such as us to have fully informed opinions as to it's capability.

In response to your question about specific players, it would indeed appear that their recruitment was outside of the typical model. Berge - I'm reserving judgement on. I think he may well come good but probably not as a Utd player and certainly not as a RCM; Zivkovic - a headless chicken with limited ability. Verrips and Restos - I've not seen enough to form any sort of judgement. Obviously CW didn't fancy any of them

My personal view is that the model that the manager runs everything top to bottom is outdated and no longer viable given the multiple other areas of focus required at a top level club. I certainly wouldn't want someone to be brought it to take over everything either although I do feel there is some middle ground where someone/something could assist CW and enable him to focus on his top priority - getting results on the pitch. What that specifically takes the form of is for the club to decide but I don't think the current set-up has much/any longevity remaining and unless CW embraces some degree of change, I see his days as very much numbered.

 

[Prem owner needed]

No announcement yet and still available for a bet, hopefully means that it is now sorted, if there was anything in any of the rumours or betting odds decline?

 

[bartman]

No announcement yet and still available for a bet, hopefully means that it is now sorted, if there was anything in any of the rumours or betting odds decline?

Or there was nothing to sort

 

[Booker4]

No announcement yet and still available for a bet, hopefully means that it is now sorted, if there was anything in any of the rumours or betting odds decline?

Your guess as good as anyone's mate, but definitely seems more likely with every hour that Wilder is not leaving. I just don't think it's in either Wilder's or the Club's interest to part ways right now. For Wilder, he'd leve the club he loves, and on low point to say the least. He would have wanted to leave on much better circumstnces than this.

As for the Prince, losing our best manager in decades doesn't seem his preferred option either and he'd have a near impossible job to rectuit a high caliber manager to a team destined for the Championship. Even if we did find a decent manager, there's every chance we'd still be relegated and would lose most games and the honeymoon period would be over after week one or two! We'd most likely have to go with an in house appointment till the end of the season. Or we could leave it to Wilder who is the best manager for the job and leave him to plan for next season also , therby giving us the best chance of coming back up. For those that say they can't see this team going back up, next season is a total new ball game, they'll be players leaving and players arriving this summer. There's every chance that the team that starts in August will only contain 7 out of the current regular line up, because Wilder knows we need new players and we'll be in a great place to recruit next summer for good Championship players with our parachute money, aided possibly by a sale of Berge, hopefully not JOC, although if Berge stays what a player to have - win win either way.

Mouth of the South. You make some good points that others have made also. Without giving my usual defence on the wage structure etc, I think Wilder always knew that Ramsdale and Brewster would be for the longer term as well as the shorter term and knowing that the shorter term maybe harder than he'd want ideally, because they're young and learning. But at least they are young and have time to develop. Many other teams that have got relegated have gone down with huge wage bills, with players that are impossible to shift that are of little value in the Championship, partly because they don't want to be there and they stink the place out. Norwood and Fleck for example may no longer be up to the Prem - based on current form - but they are not bad eggs and there is no reason why they shouldn't be more than up to the task next season. I pick out Norwood and Fleck because they're argubably two of the worst players currently form wise and hve been for months. The likes of Baldock, Egan, Bash, Stevens, McGoldrick will be very good players in the Champ, and we'll have Bogle and Norrington-Davies coming in next season. There's every reason to be positive.

We have to suck this up right now, take the piss taking from everyone, but I promise you this, this will get better if we stick with Wilder.

As Derek Dooley once said to Harry "we hired you to do job, I suggest you get on with it". I think that's exactly what we need to let Wilder do, even if that means we get less than 10 points this season.

 

[TomHeffernan]

I have it on good authority he’s not left or leaving.

 

[bertieblade]

^ Any clue as to who the good authority is?

Someone connected to the club?
A personal friend of Wilder

or someone you overheard in the queue at ASDA ( if you know you know)

 

[bibbity bobbity boo]

According to Wiki, Yakubu is our new manager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakubu_(footballer)

 

[Booker4]

I have it on good authority he’s not left or leaving.

Wish we'd had some of that last night Heffers! Good to hear though!

 

[TomHeffernan]

^ Any clue as to who the good authority is?

Someone connected to the club?
A personal friend of Wilder

or someone you overheard in the queue at ASDA ( if you know you know)

I told this board about Jack Charltons death 12 hours before it was released. It’s the same guy. Let’s hope he’s as bang on the money as last time.

 

[bertieblade]

I subsequently guess your “man” to be a journalist?

 

[Bladesman]

I have it on good authority he’s not left or leaving.

Maybe it is what Deadbat has said before and someone at the club leaked it to see what the reaction would be among fans.

I think everyone would prefer Wilder to be given time to put it right but he has to be open to making changes. Wilder has painted himself into a corner with his recruitment which means he has not got a lot of wiggle room with the formation. That said we are in a transfer window. So he will need to put his Football League wheeler dealer hat on to offload some players and bring some players in that can play different roles.