Come on Cloughie

[FriethBlade]

Lets here the other side of the story or have.they gagged you as part of the payoff terms ?

There's always 2 sides to every story and I'm sure you will see it slightly differently to Jim.

One other thought if the Prince has put in as much as Jim says how long before he starts questioning what exactly he paying his 'expert advisors' for ? He may be better off recruiting a ' football director' with a long experience of English football rather than an American Football fan and a Fenerbahce fan ?

 

[Bladebri]

I don't think clough is a whistleblower.

 

[JJ Sefton]

In Phipps We Trust

 

[Rodley]

In Phipps We Trust

Phipp crack-a-way, Phipp crack-a-way, Phipp crack-a-way...?

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Lets here the other side of the story or have.they gagged you as part of the payoff terms ?

There's always 2 sides to every story and I'm sure you will see it slightly differently to Jim.

One other thought if the Prince has put in as much as Jim says how long before he starts questioning what exactly he paying his 'expert advisors' for ? He may be better off recruiting a ' football director' with a long experience of English football rather than an American Football fan and a Fenerbahce fan ?

I will respond on Clough's behalf on a couple of points:-

“In circumstances where we allowed the Technical Board process to be thoroughly undermined by a gaffer, who was not interested in the process; hence, some of the excesses (recruiting in quantity, signing injured players, etc)”

Who are all these injured players that Clough signed? The three players with seemingly long-term unsurmountable injury problems are J.Wallace, Kennedy and Cuvelier. Clough only signed one of those.
The other currently injured players who he signed are Brayford and Harris, neither of whom have a record of injuries before last season and both of whom are expected to make a full recovery soon.
Who else? Done? Broke his collar bone early this season. Hardly Clough’s fault. Higdon? Apparently fit and playing regularly for Oldham. Coutts? Back in our squad and apparently not injured.
So he gambled and lost when he signed James Wallace. A player who has shown on the rare occasions when he is fit that he was possibly worth taking a chance on.
Presumably Clough was advised by the medical team at the Lane that the player had a good chance of recovering from his previous injuries and playing regularly?
So who is to blame if he doesn’t ever get fully kit? Clough, the medical team or just bad luck? Did Clough appoint the medical team? Where does the buck finally stop once you start apportioning blame?

“This capital injection has enabled the Club to do the things that enabled it to secure GBP 4 Million in cup winnings over the last two season”

So having spent the previous three paragraphs outlining why Clough is to blame for our failure, you’re quick to claim sole credit for his success in the cups. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[PeteBlade]

I have little interest in what Brian Clough's son has to say.

Pleased I no longer have to suffer his brand of football though.

 

[S5Blade]

I will respond on Clough's behalf on a couple of points:-

“In circumstances where we allowed the Technical Board process to be thoroughly undermined by a gaffer, who was not interested in the process; hence, some of the excesses (recruiting in quantity, signing injured players, etc)”

Who are all these injured players that Clough signed? The three players with seemingly long-term unsurmountable injury problems are J.Wallace, Kennedy and Cuvelier. Clough only signed one of those.
The other currently injured players who he signed are Brayford and Harris, neither of whom have a record of injuries before last season and both of whom are expected to make a full recovery soon.
Who else? Done? Broke his collar bone in pre-season. Hardly Clough’s fault. Higdon? Apparently fit and playing regularly for Oldham. Coutts? Back in our squad and apparently not injured.
So he gambled and lost when he signed James Wallace. A player who has shown on the rare occasions when he is fit that he was possibly worth taking a chance on.
Presumably Clough was advised by the medical team at the Lane that the player had a good chance of recovering from his previous injuries and playing regularly?
So who is to blame if he doesn’t ever get fully kit? Clough, the medical team or just bad luck? Did Clough appoint the medical team? Where does the buck finally stop once you start apportioning blame?

“This capital injection has enabled the Club to do the things that enabled it to secure GBP 4 Million in cup winnings over the last two season”

So having spent the previous three paragraphs outlining why Clough is to blame for our failure, you’re quick to claim sole credit for his success in the cups. You can’t have it both ways.

Coutts and Higdon may well be fit now, but they werent when Clough signed them for the first team.....

 

[SwissBlade]

Coutts and Higdon may well be fit now, but they werent when Clough signed them for the first team.....

True, but if that's a lesson learnt, why on earth did we get Hammond in? He's clearly not fit either!

 

[PeteBlade]

True, but if that's a lesson learnt, why on earth did we get Hammond in? He's clearly not fit either!

There's a different between injured and not match fit.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I will respond on Clough's behalf on a couple of points:-

“In circumstances where we allowed the Technical Board process to be thoroughly undermined by a gaffer, who was not interested in the process; hence, some of the excesses (recruiting in quantity, signing injured players, etc)”

Who are all these injured players that Clough signed? The three players with seemingly long-term unsurmountable injury problems are J.Wallace, Kennedy and Cuvelier. Clough only signed one of those.
The other currently injured players who he signed are Brayford and Harris, neither of whom have a record of injuries before last season and both of whom are expected to make a full recovery soon.
Who else? Done? Broke his collar bone in pre-season. Hardly Clough’s fault. Higdon? Apparently fit and playing regularly for Oldham. Coutts? Back in our squad and apparently not injured.
So he gambled and lost when he signed James Wallace. A player who has shown on the rare occasions when he is fit that he was possibly worth taking a chance on.
Presumably Clough was advised by the medical team at the Lane that the player had a good chance of recovering from his previous injuries and playing regularly?
So who is to blame if he doesn’t ever get fully kit? Clough, the medical team or just bad luck? Did Clough appoint the medical team? Where does the buck finally stop once you start apportioning blame?

“This capital injection has enabled the Club to do the things that enabled it to secure GBP 4 Million in cup winnings over the last two season”

So having spent the previous three paragraphs outlining why Clough is to blame for our failure, you’re quick to claim sole credit for his success in the cups. You can’t have it both ways.

To be fair, he's criticising Cloughy specifically for "undermining the Technical Board process" as opposed to performance in league or cups here. And given that he's talking about signing injured players, you'd have to include Coutts & Higdon in the list. The other point made regarding undermining the board's signings policy is NC's widely criticised quantity over quality approach. A pretty damning swipe at Cloughy's megalomaniac tendencies, but a criticism only made with regard to signings.

 

[Stretch]

I will respond on Clough's behalf on a couple of points:-

“In circumstances where we allowed the Technical Board process to be thoroughly undermined by a gaffer, who was not interested in the process; hence, some of the excesses (recruiting in quantity, signing injured players, etc)”

Who are all these injured players that Clough signed? The three players with seemingly long-term unsurmountable injury problems are J.Wallace, Kennedy and Cuvelier. Clough only signed one of those.
The other currently injured players who he signed are Brayford and Harris, neither of whom have a record of injuries before last season and both of whom are expected to make a full recovery soon.
Who else? Done? Broke his collar bone early this season. Hardly Clough’s fault. Higdon? Apparently fit and playing regularly for Oldham. Coutts? Back in our squad and apparently not injured.
So he gambled and lost when he signed James Wallace. A player who has shown on the rare occasions when he is fit that he was possibly worth taking a chance on.
Presumably Clough was advised by the medical team at the Lane that the player had a good chance of recovering from his previous injuries and playing regularly?
So who is to blame if he doesn’t ever get fully kit? Clough, the medical team or just bad luck? Did Clough appoint the medical team? Where does the buck finally stop once you start apportioning blame?

“This capital injection has enabled the Club to do the things that enabled it to secure GBP 4 Million in cup winnings over the last two season”

So having spent the previous three paragraphs outlining why Clough is to blame for our failure, you’re quick to claim sole credit for his success in the cups. You can’t have it both ways.

Regarding injuries I would add Coutts to the list as well mate. It could also be argued that he signed Higdon when woefully unfit or carrying some kind of niggle that prevented adequate movement. If it was a fitness issue then lack of pre season explains that away, but he never seemed to get any fitter.

 

[Pierre's PC]

I'm not interested in what Clough has to say either.

In my mind JP is part of SUFC present while Clough is part of its past.

The only people truly interested in this are the drama Queens who court any controversy and who revel in picking up on the slightest comment so they can be outraged to the point of irrationality.

For instance *if* Clough responded by calling bullshit how long before the first post called the board liars just because...?

I believe the JP made a mistake posting which has been kind of vindicated by some of the responses on that thread so what purpose would a Clough response serve?

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Coutts and Higdon may well be fit now, but they werent when Clough signed them for the first team.....

Were they not? Higdon played (and performed well) about 24 hours after he signed then later got injured.
Coutts hardly missed a match last season after being signed. He may have not been fully fit having been out a while but he wasn't "injured".
Again, both must have at some point have passed a "medical" and been deemed fit to play. Clough isn't a doctor or even a physio.
Was he badly advised or did he ignore medical advice and think "what the hell, they'll never be fit but I'll sign them anyway".
Or more likely, did they pass their medicals, played for a while and then picked up other unforeseen injuries or complications.

 

[SwissBlade]

There's a different between injured and not match fit.

True enough, however didn't both players play their first game when they came in?

To be fair, he's criticising Cloughy specifically for "undermining the Technical Board process" as opposed to performance in league or cups here. And given that he's talking about signing injured players, you'd have to include Coutts & Higdon in the list. The other point made regarding undermining the board's signings policy is NC's widely criticised quantity over quality approach. A pretty damning swipe at Cloughy's megalomaniac tendencies, but a criticism only made with regard to signings.

From what I've read (skimmed most of it and will look in more detail this week) it does strike me that Clough was at odds with the board. This is never going to be good and will never work for the manager, who becomes the fall guy...

I've seen the 'quantity v quality' comment a lot, but really what was he to do. The board wanted promotion, I also remember a blades player video with Phipps and Baki saying how good the cup runs were for the club. And they were. They've admitted the revenue levels those cup runs achieved.

So on one hand they wanted us fighting on all fronts, but on the other they criticise the squad. Clough was smart enough to get rid of players that he didn't like - JCR, Collins and Butler. For whatever reason, they didn't fit his way. But isn't that what the manager is there to do?

It seems there is a real bitterness being generated from the club towards Clough, but they appointed him!

Again given that they knew all this when they appointed Adkins, why didn't the press conferences in the summer play down our chances of promotion. Why did they not say 'players are playing for places as we have a massively inflated squad'?

 

[SwissBlade]

I'm not interested in what Clough has to say either.

In my mind JP is part of SUFC present while Clough is part of its past.

The only people truly interested in this are the drama Queens who court any controversy and who revel in picking up on the slightest comment so they can be outraged to the point of irrationality.

For instance *if* Clough responded by calling bullshit how long before the first post called the board liars just because...?

I believe the JP made a mistake posting which has been kind of vindicated by some of the responses on that thread so what purpose would a Clough response serve?

You have a good point, but then again doesn't Clough have a right to reply when he's getting blamed for this season?

Personally I don't think Clough will say anything

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

It seems there is a real bitterness being generated from the club towards Clough, but they appointed him!

I don't really think that's the case. Phipps's criticism here is the first time the board have openly had a pop at Clough (despite this issue clearly being a bit of a running sore).

 

[Pierre's PC]

You have a good point, but then again doesn't Clough have a right to reply when he's getting blamed for this season?

Personally I don't think Clough will say anything

There's also an admission of guilt on behalf of the board which granted is very corporate way of admittance more akin to the CEO of bp on the south Park episode.

All last season there were rumblings about the players Clough brought in either not being good enough or perma-sick

Not everything was Cloughs fault and he still gave us some amazing scenes but there is some reason to believe that there were some issues with his transfer dealings. Hindsight is always 20/20 but that's it's nature.

I just think with the divisive nature on this board and social media, the internet, being an avenue that JP seems to employ to present information is not going to be kind to anyone involved.

 

[Rodders]

You have a good point, but then again doesn't Clough have a right to reply when he's getting blamed for this season?

Personally I don't think Clough will say anything

I don't think Clough's got Phippsy on his friends list on Facebook.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Clough told his own story over the course of last season with his piss-poor tactics and approach to man-management. When all is said and done it's the only story that really matters.
Anything else is just handbags.

 

[Lane Ender]

Clough told his own story over the course of last season with his piss-poor tactics and approach to man-management. When all is said and done it's the only story that really matters.
Anything else is just handbags.

A least we are having a go this year.
Two seasons minimum to right Cloughs mistakes
Got to stick with Adkins

 

[Tyler Durden]

A least we are having a go this year.
Two seasons minimum to right Cloughs mistakes
Got to stick with Adkins

I agree completely, time to rip it up and start again.
Like I said on another thread. Adkins job is safe for the foreseeable future. I think it's more like that he'll eventually leave us if anything. It all depends on January.

 

[BushBlade]

I agree completely, time to rip it up and start again.
Like I said on another thread. Adkins job is safe for the foreseeable future. I think it's more like that he'll eventually leave us if anything. It all depends on January.

I think he might be stuck here for a while. At present, because he failed at Reading, only the desperate, mentalist clubs in the championship would be interested and I can't see him being that keen on being Leeds' manager for two months.
Either that or take a step down.

 

[SwissBlade]

Clough told his own story over the course of last season with his piss-poor tactics and approach to man-management. When all is said and done it's the only story that really matters.
Anything else is just handbags.

Yep play offs and two cup semis in amongst being a shit manager eh

 

[Ecco1889]

Yep play offs and two cup semis in amongst being a shit manager eh

and a 50% win ratio

 

[Tyler Durden]

Yep play offs and two cup semis in amongst being a shit manager eh

Blackwell got us to a play-off final and also has one of the highest win ratios of any United manager......

Doesn't tell the full story though.

 

[SwissBlade]

Blackwell got us to a play-off final and also has one of the highest win ratios of any United manager......

Doesn't tell the full story though.

He didn't get a third division side to two proper cup semis and beating several Premiership and championship sides along the way

But yes I agree, Blackwell was a very effective manager

 

[PeteBlade]

He didn't get a third division side to two proper cup semis and beating several Premiership and championship sides along the way

But yes I agree, Blackwell was a very effective manager

Shame he was that unambitious he set himself up to draw league matches against most third division clubs at home.

Assuming you think Phil Parkinson is a cracking manager too?

 

[mosbolad]

Come on Cloughie, they gagged you as part of the payoff terms ?

Really FriethBlade!!!!!

I'd rather not, if you don't mind!

No wonder he gagged!!!

 

[JohnDenver]

There's also an admission of guilt on behalf of the board which granted is very corporate way of admittance more akin to the CEO of bp on the south Park episode.

All last season there were rumblings about the players Clough brought in either not being good enough or perma-sick

Not everything was Cloughs fault and he still gave us some amazing scenes but there is some reason to believe that there were some issues with his transfer dealings. Hindsight is always 20/20 but that's it's nature.

I just think with the divisive nature on this board and social media, the internet, being an avenue that JP seems to employ to present information is not going to be kind to anyone involved.

There's a lot spoken about Clough's poor transfer dealings. But I think his record isn't that bad. He signed some crackers and a few stinkers, which is pretty much what all managers do. His problem has been that his stinkers have mostly been in defence. His cautious 4-5-1was predicated on clean-sheets his players couldn't deliver.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I appreciated the communication from from Jim but I didn't like the dig at Clough. Whatever anyone thinks of him or his time at the club (I have mixed opinions) using him as a scapegoat for our failings is poor.