Ched Evans

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Ahem, could you tell me where my facts are wrong please Bladesway???

You said the only thing he did was score a few goals (nine is not a few - it's more than one of our midfielders has scored in his 300 game career - but whatever) and as a few people have pointed out, he laid on a good number as well. More than 5, I'd wager, since I'm looking at the programme from the Norwich game on Boxing day and he's got 5 by then (Alan Quinn had 10!).
 

You didn't read my penultimate post then!? He scored 9 and created 5. Go back and read the posts properly before you start asking questions aimed at other people.
 
Revolution said:
Ahem, could you tell me where my facts are wrong please Bladesway???

You said the only thing he did was score a few goals (nine is not a few - it's more than one of our midfielders has scored in his 300 game career - but whatever) and as a few people have pointed out, he laid on a good number as well. More than 5, I'd wager, since I'm looking at the programme from the Norwich game on Boxing day and he's got 5 by then (Alan Quinn had 10!).
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I was gonna throw that little stat in there. Alan Quinn was way above and beyond anyone else up until about half way through that season. Not sure how it finished up.
 
You didn't read my penultimate post then!? He scored 9 and created 5.

Yes. But that wasn't the one Bladesway queried. The one we took issue with was the one where you only gave credit for goals.

So it was a legitimate point.

And there's no need to be so confrontational.

We are talking about a midfield player who could not control the ball. A winger who could not pass to players in his own team. He looked completely out of his depth.

None of these things are true.

Revolution, did Keith Edwards disappear for almost all the games, pass shockingly, use poor judgement and look generally pretty poor ........ but pop up with a few crucial goals (in the Second division)??

That's essentially what a bad Keith Edwards performance was like, actually...
 
For me the mystery with Ched is that based on Blade form I'd never pick him for International duty BUT based on his international (and previous CCC experience) I'd have told Blackwell to go get him. For me his problem is that despite his size he gets knocked around by the old pros in the CCC, doesn't happen at the U-21 level where he is successful. SO, if he can learn from Hendo how to stand on his feet, I have to think he will come good. More hope than Sharp.
 
Come from away said:
For me the mystery with Ched is that based on Blade form I'd never pick him for International duty BUT based on his international (and previous CCC experience) I'd have told Blackwell to go get him. For me his problem is that despite his size he gets knocked around by the old pros in the CCC, doesn't happen at the U-21 level where he is successful. SO, if he can learn from Hendo how to stand on his feet, I have to think he will come good. More hope than Sharp.
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Young player, big price tag, first full season of regular football, first big move of his professional career and here we are in October with people dismissing him as "shite". It's another example of the clamour for instant gratification from some Unitedites. :rolleyes:
 
Revolution said:
You didn't read my penultimate post then!? He scored 9 and created 5.

Yes. But that wasn't the one Bladesway queried. The one we took issue with was the one where you only gave credit for goals.

So it was a legitimate point.

And there's no need to be so confrontational.

We are talking about a midfield player who could not control the ball. A winger who could not pass to players in his own team. He looked completely out of his depth.

None of these things are true.

Revolution, did Keith Edwards disappear for almost all the games, pass shockingly, use poor judgement and look generally pretty poor ........ but pop up with a few crucial goals (in the Second division)??

That's essentially what a bad Keith Edwards performance was like, actually...
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In your opinion none of these things are true. In my opinion they are true. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Apologies for seemingly being confrontational. I don't want to spend any more time on this. I think Ifill was awful, some others don't. There's no way of proving right or wrong. We could always put it to the vote! ;) Question to all forum users 'Do you think Paul Ifill was a midfielder who controlled and passed the ball poorly for Sheffield united'. Yes or No. Can you do that moderators? ;)
 
Interesting, neither Quinn or Ifill are listed in the top 20 Assist makers for the 05/06 season, and the lowest number is 7 by Youssef Safri, and it includes all comps.
 
Clearly the FA are using a different definition of "assist" to our Programme!
 
Ifill was joint 3rd top goalscorer for us in the promotion season with 9 goals. Joint with Kabba. Webber was 2nd with 10 and HMS was top with 11.

This also goes to show we do not need Evans to be a 20 goal a season striker. If Ward, Hendo and Evans can all chip in with 10-15 each then that should be enough to get us promoted.
 
Mousey said:
Ifill was joint 3rd top goalscorer for us in the promotion season with 9 goals. Joint with Kabba. Webber was 2nd with 10 and HMS was top with 11.

This also goes to show we do not need Evans to be a 20 goal a season striker. If Ward, Hendo and Evans can all chip in with 10-15 each then that should be enough to get us promoted.
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Point of pedantry, but I always reckon Webber only got 9 that season. The 10th was allegedly the second goal at Burnley on 9/8/05. Morgan headed it towards goal following a corner. Webber was in front of the keeper and looked to turn it in. From the promotion video, it doesn't look to me like he gets a touch, but he does put off the goalie sufficently for the ball to go in. Its Morgan's goal for me.
 
Ollessendro said:
I must give him credit for getting himself into goalscoring positions, but that really is the only thing he added.
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This is the bit. Its clearly not true that Ifill did nothing apart from score the odd goal. He had the best assist rate (certainly with only a few games of the promotion season to go) at the club.

Your right its opinion on opinion and sorry if you think I laid into you in a patronising manner because it wasn't my intention. Problem is when your attempting to put a fact across the person you are trying to correct is always going to take it in a finger wagging sort of way, whereas if we were in the pub across a table my facial expression would tell you otherwise (along with my probable raised tone of voice and wildly waving arms).

Oh and for the record I'm not Ifills biggest fan. Bit of a waste of space at times but he did muck in with some goals and when he did fancy it his crossing was pretty effective.

Finally may I back up the previous mentioning of an Edwards performance. As someone who witnessed almost all his performances for us (second time around) he was a lazy and idle bog liner. But when the chance came his way you knew where it was going and that is what he was superb at.
 
Bramley said:
Young player, big price tag, first full season of regular football, first big move of his professional career and here we are in October with people dismissing him as "shite". It's another example of the clamour for instant gratification from some Unitedites. :rolleyes:
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far from instant gratification. we're about a quarter of the way through the season. he's not set the pulses racing has he? Fair enough he is young, but we have paid THREE MILLION POUNDS for him. is it too much to ask to expect a couple of brilliant performances or even look like he is always trying?

i see chopra isn't having too much trouble with his price tag at cardiff.
 

Stafford Blade said:
he's not set the pulses racing has he? Fair enough he is young, but we have paid THREE MILLION POUNDS for him.
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Common misconception. We have actual payed 1.5 million for him. It could rise to 3 depending on appearences, goals, promotion, international appearences and goals etc. People keep stating that £3 million is a lot and he should be setting the world alight. The fact is that we haven't payed that. In fact Henderson and Sharp cost more money than Ched!!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him. I think he has been disappointing. However I remain up beat that he will come good. He looked good against Watford and keepings knocking in goals for the under 21's. He has started 7 games for the Blades. In those games (although looking lethargic at times) he has still found the bet a few times. Of course you have the right to be frustrated Stafford (as does everyone else). But for me I'll give him a few more games, a few more starts before I start to get really upset.
 
Bladesway said:
This is the bit. Its clearly not true that Ifill did nothing apart from score the odd goal. He had the best assist rate (certainly with only a few games of the promotion season to go) at the club.

Your right its opinion on opinion and sorry if you think I laid into you in a patronising manner because it wasn't my intention. Problem is when your attempting to put a fact across the person you are trying to correct is always going to take it in a finger wagging sort of way, whereas if we were in the pub across a table my facial expression would tell you otherwise (along with my probable raised tone of voice and wildly waving arms).

Oh and for the record I'm not Ifills biggest fan. Bit of a waste of space at times but he did muck in with some goals and when he did fancy it his crossing was pretty effective.
QUOTE]

Is the bit in Italics really true? He had 5 assists in our promotion season. We scored 76 goals that season, was the person with the highest assists Paul Ifill with 5.

(Is there some stato who can actual give us the stats on assists for 2005/2006)???

Like I said we'll just have to agree to disagree. You've stated your two penneth and I mine. Although we do agree that he was a waste of space!? ;) I haven't taken offence at your patronising tone :p This is a forum for opinions and debate. I like this kind of stuff. It's interesting to hear peoples opinions. As with most Blades (Henderson, Hendrie, Evans, Warnock and KB as managers etc) feelings on Ifill were mixed. The camp was split. I just remember where I used to sit on the kop everyone used to call him Paul Awful!?
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Mousey said:
This also goes to show we do not need Evans to be a 20 goal a season striker. If Ward, Hendo and Evans can all chip in with 10-15 each then that should be enough to get us promoted.
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A point I've been trying to hammer home at every given opportunity. So thank you! :)
 
TonyAgana said:
A point I've been trying to hammer home at every given opportunity. So thank you! :)
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I see where you are coming from. BUT if we are shelling out very good money ( 1.5 million to start with not 3! ) on a striker then we should be looking for this striker to find the net on a regular basis. He has been signed on the back of his goalscoring record at Norwich last year amongst other things. It might be a bit optimistic hoping Hendo gets 15 goals when the poor lad is having to do his and Ched's running every week!

I think we'll be very lucky if Ward gets 15 too. That's nothing against Ward but the role he is often asked to play may limit his chances to put one away regularly
 
Problem isn't the players we have its the way we play. Your right Stafford about Ward because he spends half his time playing out of position on the wing.

In fact I often think Blackwell is a Warnock clone. Playing 4-5-1 away from home, playing strikers out wide (something I guarantee will end up with them being unhappy) and playing a direct style. Also not being able to get a midfield to actually play football.

The only manager in recent history to get us a 20 goals a season striker was, wait for it. Gulp. Here goes. Bryan Robson.
 
Bladesway said:
The only manager in recent history to get us a 20 goals a season striker was, wait for it. Gulp. Here goes. Bryan Robson.
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And even that turned out badly. We bought a striker we couldn't afford an we're still paying for it.
 
Bladesway said:
The only manager in recent history to get us a 20 goals a season striker was, wait for it. Gulp. Here goes. Bryan Robson.
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Warnock got us a midfielder that scored more than 20 goals in a season.
 
The only manager in recent history to get us a 20 goals a season striker was, wait for it. Gulp. Here goes. Bryan Robson.[/QUOTE]


20 goals a season strikers ain't that common. The only players in my life time to score 20 league goals or more in a season are as follows:

Bill Dearden (72-73)
Keith Edwards (81-82, 83-84, 85-86)
Colin Morris (83-84)
Brian Deane (88-89 89-90),
Tony Agana (88-89)
James Beattie (07-08)

If you include FA Cup and League Cup goals you can add to that list

Alan Woodward (69-70, 71-72)
Bob Hatton (80-81)
Keith Edwards (82-83)
Brian Deane (92-93, if you count his "goal" in the Leeds home game)
Marcelo (98-99)
Micheal Brown (02-03)
 
Marcelo (98-99)

If you count his goal in the void Arsenal game (and the FA don't).

During the gap between Beattie and Deano's 20 goal seasons something like 80 teams had at least 1 player score 20 league goals. It's not that uncommon. We don't do it because we sell anyone who scores regularly, sometimes after less than a season. This is of course one of the reasons we miss out on promotion so often.
 
Revolution said:
Marcelo (98-99)

If you count his goal in the void Arsenal game (and the FA don't).

During the gap between Beattie and Deano's 20 goal seasons something like 80 teams had at least 1 player score 20 league goals. It's not that uncommon. We don't do it because we sell anyone who scores regularly, sometimes after less than a season. This is of course one of the reasons we miss out on promotion so often.
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But that doesn't alter that fact that in 43 seasons we have only 9 examples of players scoring 20 league goals a season and 5 of those were in the lower two divisions. Given that we have spent 37 of those seasons in the top two divisions, we can expect a 20 goal a season striker in the top two tiers around once every 9-10 years.
 
But that doesn't alter that fact that in 43 seasons we have only 10 examples of players scoring 20 league goals a season and 7 of those were in the lower two divisions. Given that we have spent 37 of those seasons in the top two divisions, we can expect a 20 goal a season striker in the top two tiers around once every 12 years.

That's not what we can expect. that's what's gone before. It bears no correlation to the position going forward.

Secondly, 4 20 goal players in 37 seasons is a poor record. Check out how many times other teams have done it in comparison to us over that period. We do not compare well, believe me.

Wednesday have a similarly poor record. no one's got 20 for them in the top 2 leagues since Hirst in 1991.
 
I've listed the automatic promtion teams from the Last 5 Championship seasons and their top scorer(s).

Wolves - Ebanks Blake 25
Brum - Phillips 14

WBA - Phillips 22
Stoke - Fuller 15 (lawrence and Creswell both in double figures)

Sunderland - Connely 13
Brum - McSheffrey 13

Reading - Doyler 18 (and Kitson 17)
Us - (Shipps 13?, Kabba, Webber, Ifill 10?)

Sunderland - Stewart 16
Wigan - Ellington 24

What does it say? Erm. Well you don't have to have a 20+ goals a season striker, but it certainly helps. 2 good stikers can certainly power you into the prem (Ebansk Blake Ewulmu, Doyle and Kitson, Ellinton and Roberst etc) but also a combination of one striker scoring 15 or so and other contributing could take us up. Looking at this you'd have to say if Evans was to bang 15, Henderson 10, Ward 10, a selection of midfielders 5 (i.e. Quinn, Cotts, Treacy etc) then automtaic promotion could be a possibility.
 
Pointless Post Alert

I'm pretty sure I saw Ched Evans emerging from Starbucks on Eccy Road today. Might be wrong but he had all the training gear on and a suitably attractive lass with him.

For what it's worth I didn't bother hanging about to see what car he drove off in. Whatever it was I'm sure his alloy wheels are nothing on James Beattie's.

:)
 

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