Outgoing? Che Adams

[Bladesway]

How many bids / enquires did we turn down for harry before he went? There were rumours of bids for months and months and months before he was finally sold.

But then after we turned a bid down we went back with a begging bowl and asked Hull to buy him. Now negotiation is part of my job, that isnt what you do in negotiation unless you are a basketcase

 

[Darthblade]

I'd value che Adams at 10 million, because it worked when Ipswich sold Connor wickham and overinflated his value, didn't they pick 17million up for him or something silly from Sunderland just by valuing him at something daft like 20 mill.

Always said that was a great bit of business there...

And if they don't like it they can push off and we'll keep him, cus everybody knows we don't need to sell our best players anymore, eh Jim....

Correct ...... and when we try to buy players other teams have the disgraceful indecency to say "NO" if it doesn't suit them to sell !!! How very dare they !!! Pity we cannot summon up the boll***s to do the same when somebody comes knocking on our door with an offer .....

Oh well we can always hope that somebody comes in for Scougal, McEveley & Higdon in January .......
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

This is just a rumour started on RS , but by chinese wispers will finish up in the national press . Knowing Bournemouth , Eddie Howe will already have had the lad watched . He has a portfolio on every league and non league player , with a network of scouts second to none . The price will be set on his release and % sell on clause , no doubt in his new contract.

What is reality in football , especially a club in league 1 .

All players are replaceable , who ever they are . Our issue / problem , is that we never replace them or have a contingency plan in place , when they do leave (or so it seems to me ) , goung way back to Mick Jones.

UTB

Exactly ....... the old saying that "every player has his price" is correct. The problem is that when we have our shorts pulled down and sell ( usually for a cut-price) we rarely re-invest the sale proceeds to replace with a suitable quality of player ....... for example nobody replaced Maguire, Woolford replaced Murphy ( although the Club sneakily brought Woolford in before they announced that Murphy would have to be reluctantly sold to throw us off the scent ).
We really are getting really good at not doing the transfer merry-go-round well at all !!
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

But then after we turned a bid down we went back with a begging bowl and asked Hull to buy him. Now negotiation is part of my job, that isnt what you do in negotiation unless you are a basketcase

Hang on though ...... big Mal is doing a sterling job isn't he ??
UTB & FTP

 

[Bladesway]

Selling Blackman was?

Selling Blackman was what? We were top of the table when we sold him. Hes now scoring freely in the Championship and remind me where we are again?

 

[S5Blade]

Selling Blackman was what? We were top of the table when we sold him. Hes now scoring freely in the Championship and remind me where we are again?

yes, I would love a freescoring striker who has managed 14 goals in 88 appearances (77 of them in the Championship)

I wonder how many of them 14 were penalties? I am sure some one did some analysis and of his 11 goals for us, 6 of them were from the spot so an amazing 5 goals from open play. Yes, he would have 100% fired us to promotion and carried on that form in the leagues above averages a healthy 1 goal in 6 appearances since leaving us (if you want to work it out in game minutes, its still over 1 goal in every 3 games)

 

[Pollingtonblade]

If he'd have continued with that ratio in the 2nd half of the season he'd have got 22 and maybe some more wins that could have got us up, why bash pens don't they count?

 

[Revolution]

yes, I would love a freescoring striker who has managed 14 goals in 88 appearances (77 of them in the Championship)

I wonder how many of them 14 were penalties? I am sure some one did some analysis and of his 11 goals for us, 6 of them were from the spot so an amazing 5 goals from open play. Yes, he would have 100% fired us to promotion and carried on that form in the leagues above averages a healthy 1 goal in 6 appearances since leaving us (if you want to work it out in game minutes, its still over 1 goal in every 3 games)

The answer to this is of course:

Forte and Ironside.

 

[Bladesway]

yes, I would love a freescoring striker who has managed 14 goals in 88 appearances (77 of them in the Championship)

I wonder how many of them 14 were penalties? I am sure some one did some analysis and of his 11 goals for us, 6 of them were from the spot so an amazing 5 goals from open play. Yes, he would have 100% fired us to promotion and carried on that form in the leagues above averages a healthy 1 goal in 6 appearances since leaving us (if you want to work it out in game minutes, its still over 1 goal in every 3 games)

Whats his ratio this season?

As I say, we were top of the league when Kev had him bundled off in a van, but we weren't by the end of the season. You do the math.

P.S Is a penalty a lesser goal now? I hear it used as a lame excuse everytime someone scores but as I understand the game if you score a penalty it counts as much as a 35 yard screamer.

P.P.S stop defending the indefensible.

 

[blade too long]

it seems some people not content with jumping on us dropping points have turned to malicious rumours about us constantly wanting to offload players

total and utter bullshit

has as much truth in it as Coutts going to PSG for 15 million
anyone who even begins to give it creedance could be conned into buying elephant repelant fot their garden in Sheffield

 

[S5Blade]

Whats his ratio this season?

As I say, we were top of the league when Kev had him bundled off in a van, but we weren't by the end of the season. You do the math.

P.S Is a penalty a lesser goal now? I hear it used as a lame excuse everytime someone scores but as I understand the game if you score a penalty it counts as much as a 35 yard screamer.

P.P.S stop defending the indefensible.

Ahhh so lets use his ratio this season rather than looking how he continued to perform when we sold him to the present day, that will back up your argument wont it.....

p.s. no, a penalty is not a lesser goal, but if we had not won another penalty till the end of the season and he carried on with his current ratio, he would have ended up on ten goals, amazing return and would have guaranteed to get us promotion for sure

As I said, I dont think Blackman was worth £1m and we literally robbed them blind to get £1m for him, whether or not he was replaced adequately or not is a whole different point.

 

[bladesmanluke]

This club is nothing short of retarded when it comes to selling players.
Jagielka - £4m... Shit price
Beattie - £2.5m... Shit price
Naughton AND Walker - £8m... Shit price
Paddy Kenny - £750k... Shit price
Quinn - £8,000... Fuck off
Kevin McDonald - £250,000k... Shit price, but that's the players doing.
Nick Blackman - £1m...Shit price
Harry Maguire - £2m... Shit price
Jamie Murphy - £1.5m... Shit price

Yet every single time there are fans saying we've made a great deal and it'll allow us to bring in better players. Do you still live in 1990?

A lot of these figures should have been double, even three fold what our paltry, half arsed club accepted. There's no wonder we can't sanction replacements.

I'm fully expecting us to sell Che Adams (maybe our best prospect yet?) in January for at absolute most £3m. If this happens the club can wave goodbye to my money. Even if we get a deserved £7m+ I'll be staying away until I've seen all of it reinvested on quality players

 

[SUFC Guy]

Jagielka - £4m... Good price
Beattie - £2.5m... Good price
Naughton AND Walker - £8m... Good price
Paddy Kenny - £750k... Terrible price
Quinn - £8,000... As if?
Kevin McDonald - £250,000k... Rubbish clause
Nick Blackman - £1m...Amazing
Harry Maguire - £2m... Amazing
Jamie Murphy - £1.5m... Fair price

Fixed it for you with more sensible comments

UTB

 

[Pierre's PC]

I thought it was 11m for Walker and Naughton with 8m of that from Naughton

 

[S5Blade]

I thought it was 11m for Walker and Naughton with 8m of that from Naughton

Why let made up figures ruin a good argument tho... oh wait......... I feel a meme coming

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I thought it was 11m for Walker and Naughton with 8m of that from Naughton

Why let made up figures ruin a good argument tho... oh wait......... I feel a meme coming

Kevin McCabe Q&A July 2009. Transcript taken from here I think:-

KMc: "Well, the actual split is £6 million and £4 million. With £3 million for Kyle guaranteed with one on appearances and £5 million for Kyle N guaranteed and £1 million on appearances."

 

[Revolution]

Kevin McCabe Q&A July 2009. Transcript taken from here I think:-

KMc: "Well, the actual split is £6 million and £4 million. With £3 million for Kyle guaranteed with one on appearances and £5 million for Kyle N guaranteed and £1 million on appearances."

I can't read that without imagining clappers rubbing their hands in satisfaction over the "good business"

 

[S5Blade]

I can't read that without imagining clappers rubbing their hands in satisfaction over the "good business"

Walker played 9 times for us, Naughton played 42 before those transfers. You dont think that was good business? Yes, Walker is probably worth 25m and naughton about 7? but how would we know that from 9 games walker played?

 

[S5Blade]

Kevin McCabe Q&A July 2009. Transcript taken from here I think:-

KMc: "Well, the actual split is £6 million and £4 million. With £3 million for Kyle guaranteed with one on appearances and £5 million for Kyle N guaranteed and £1 million on appearances."

Was more aimed at the rest of the figures in the list, It's rare for us to actually ever find out individual transfer fees

 

[Revolution]

Walker played 9 times for us, Naughton played 42 before those transfers. You dont think that was good business? Yes, Walker is probably worth 25m and naughton about 7? but how would we know that from 9 games walker played?

Wow. Just wow.

 

[S5Blade]

Wow. Just wow.

You disagree? £3m for a player who has played 9 games and £5m for a young player with one good season behind him in the championship after signing from Gretna? What would have represented fair market values for them?

 

[vorpal blade]

it felt like a BOGOF at the time, Naughton's transfer having been on the cards for weeks (to Everton, if I remember correctly) - He was the one that SUFC got paid money for.

Walker was thrown in seemingly, for naught on the day of Naughton's transfer and yet, though he had played far fewer games, Walker looked the better player which is why we were upset by it - why couldn't the owners of United see what we saw in Walker?


Slight mitigation was that both were right-backs and because Naughton made his debut first, and was therefore more experienced, he was moved out of position to allow the rookie Walker an easier start in his natural position. I still wonder whether Naughton is paying for this as it was he who was moved out of position again when they both played for Spurs.

I wonder whether or not this practical use of Naughton as left full back at the start of his professional career, still blights his career in comparison with the garlanded Walker?

or am I remembering it wrongly?

 

[Balham]

vorpal blade I think that's more to do with Naughton being the more natural defender. If my memory serves me right then Walker played as a centre forward until the age of 16. He's also more one-footed than Naughton.

It's a bit like Brayford and Freeman. Both competent right backs but Freeman can play left back but I don't think I'd put the Beard on the left.

As for the point above: I don't really understand why we actively seemed to "sell" Walker to Spurs. However, I think the view was expressed on here at the time that Walker's head had been turned by the approach and he asked to go. It might have worked out better for all concerned had Naughton gone to Everton as rumoured with Walker staying at the Lane but that wasn't to be.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

vorpal blade I think that's more to do with Naughton being the more natural defender. If my memory serves me right then Walker played as a centre forward until the age of 16. He's also more one-footed than Naughton.

It's a bit like Brayford and Freeman. Both competent right backs but Freeman can play left back but I don't think I'd put the Beard on the left.

As for the point above: I don't really understand why we actively seemed to "sell" Walker to Spurs. However, I think the view was expressed on here at the time that Walker's head had been turned by the approach and he asked to go. It might have worked out better for all concerned had Naughton gone to Everton as rumoured with Walker staying at the Lane but that wasn't to be.

I've just been reading a bit more of the transcript from McCabe Q&A Jun 2009.
Might as well stick the relevant section about Walker and Naughton up here:-

<< SB: Hulse. Stead. Beattie. All big wage earners have been moved on to give more freedom to Kevin Blackwell. It's not quite so true then when you look at the younger end of the spectrum and you see Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker. We've got emails here galore on that and the point that most of them make is, if we understand the policy of getting rid of the big wages, but why get rid of the young talent as well?

KMc: I mean, you tell me, and the audience can tell me if they like, how do you stop a Premier League club buying your players?

Audience: Just say no

SB: Say no is the suggestion.

KMc: Let me say, with every player, you get an agent. It's not just the club and your player that's involved in this negotiation scenario. Now an agent who acts for players, the way the agent makes money is by moving players, getting new contracts for players. Clubs in the Premiership also employ agents to scout to get new talent for their challenges, and with respect this is the problem we've got because we're not in the top league. The Premiership TV revenues are so huge compared to the Championship, they have a buying power that we do not have. So if you get the good players, we're not an exception here, you want to keep talent.

The two lads I refer to are friends as well as Sheffield United players, or ex-Sheffield United players now, but what happened when the season ends, of course it's the agent acting for the player who looks to place the player, it's not Sheffield United because in many respects you're right, the players to us are relatively cheap and affordable because they're on contracts with us that have been negotiated. So you get an agent, acting for the lads, who then looks to place them at a club, to get, for the player at the club, the best possible deal that we cannot match. We simply cannot match.

Audience: But if they're still on contract with us we don't have to let them go.

KMc: I'm sorry, the answer is yes we do because players regrettably, and let's talk beyond Sheffield United, whether you're John Terry earning £100,000 a week, if you can go for £120,000 a week, you go. Right? Why? Because you want to earn that sort of money. Now you may be on a contract, in the case of the two Kyles with Sheffield United, a legal contract, but you cannot keep those players happy. If you've got that magic to do it, come and sit here. You can't do it, honestly.

SB: Let's bring in this gentleman over here.

Audience: Yeah, we're talking about the two Kyles and I think the majority of the people would probably agree that Kyle Naughton, whatever we got for him, whether it was £5 million or £6 million, would be a good deal for a lad who hadn't played a full season of football, I don't know if you agree or not. But Walker's a different kettle of fish. He's played five games, he couldn't have been on fantastic wages, you might have tripled his value in a year's time. So why the hell have you sold Kyle Walker?

KMc: Because you can't keep him because of the wages the Premier League club will pay him. You must understand this yeah? It's no good shaking your head. I'd love to have kept them but you can't keep them if a club will pay them so much more than we can afford to pay them, the player wants to go. Our players are no exception. I mean, if you were offered a job that was going to pay you another £15,000 a week, what would you do? Would you leave your current job?

Audience: I agree in that case, but I cannot understand that we could not have afforded Walker's wages. I can't believe that...

KMc: Well I can honestly say that is the truth. I mean, we're competing there with Tottenham Hotspur. If we're in the Premiership, it's a different matter. If we're in the Premiership, the vast majority of our squad would be on new contracts, not the existing ones that legally they have to adhere to. Because the club has to accept that you adapt to the changing circumstance of the league you've gone up in where all the players and their agents know that there's more income. And they want most of that income. Honestly, it's the proverbial rules of the jungle. If you could keep them, you'd keep them. Your comments are right, they're on contracts but do not believe, please do not believe that they will adhere to those contracts. Their agent will begin to look to move them on and the agent does very well out of every deal.

SB: Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker have the same agent, just so you know and he's a former Sheffield United player ironically. We'll speak to the lady in yellow over there in a moment but first the gentleman in the back.

Audience: How do Kevin. Were the moves initiated by the players themselves or by the club?

KMc: Ooo now, the moves were initiated by the players' agent. Now you can say that that's the self-same thing. Free enterprise says that in any industry, you have agents. Agents in football tend to be better profiled because they can be controversial but agents happen in any industry whether you're making and selling knives and forks. The agent fraternity in football... they're round watching our kids at the Academy, you can't really stop them coming to watch, can you?

Audience: Ban 'em!

KMc: Most of them come to games whether it's at Bramall Lane or Hillsborough or anywhere else in the country, watching kids. If they see talent, they'll go round to the family of the youngster, to talk to family. Because how does the agent make his living? He makes his living by earning fees, by moving players on and negotiating new player contracts. It is part of the football industry that over the last, I suppose, twenty five years has got stronger and stronger. If there was a way of stopping it, fine, but this is free enterprise.

Audience: Did Walker want to leave?

KMc: I don't think either of them wanted to leave, until, and the until bit is that a club comes along and the terms that they start to talk about to the players make their eyes water. As it would to yourself, yourself and myself, If somebody ends up offering you another, and don't quote me on the figures, £10,000 a week, what would we all say?

Audience: Were you happy, Kevin, with what we got for him?

KMc: I'd say very clearly I think for Sheffield United's viewpoint, the amounts we got for both of those lads must be some sort of record given the ages of those lads.

Audience: So you were happy?

KMc: No, I didn't say happy. I'm explaining to you. They were very well negotiated deals at the end of the day for the club. Not happy because...

SB: Can you just clarify what the two deals were? It's another big question I hear. A lot of fees are undisclosed. What the heck does that mean?

KMc: Well the overall package for the two lads is a £10 million package. Of which £8 million is guaranteed. Now, for me, that's a starting deal that for two youngsters, one of whom has played five league games. I think it was very well negotiated. And the rest is on appearances, there's also sell-on conditions if the two lads are sold by Tottenham for more than they've paid for them. I think it's been very well negotiated and tell me a better one. >>

 

[Revolution]

You disagree? £3m for a player who has played 9 games and £5m for a young player with one good season behind him in the championship after signing from Gretna? What would have represented fair market values for them?

I don't care. I wouldn't have sold either of them. I'd have sold Kilgallon as he was the one with the shorter contract.

And I would have stood up to Mark Rankine.

Try saying no, Kev. Just once.

 

[S5Blade]

I don't care. I wouldn't have sold either of them. I'd have sold Kilgallon as he was the one with the shorter contract.

And I would have stood up to Mark Rankine.

Try saying no, Kev. Just once.

That's it then. You dont care, so everything else is wrong. Sorted.

/close thread

 

[bladesmanluke]

Fixed it for you with more sensible comments

UTB

Small time Sheffielder in perfect example of why small time Sheffield United are shite

 

[vorpal blade]

Mark Rankine has just cropped up as friend of a Facebook® friend of mine.........any offers????

if I get pissed up enough, I'll send him some kindly meant messages

 

[JohnDenver]

I've just been reading a bit more of the transcript from McCabe Q&A Jun 2009.
Might as well stick the relevant section about Walker and Naughton up here:-

<< SB: Hulse. Stead. Beattie. All big wage earners have been moved on to give more freedom to Kevin Blackwell. It's not quite so true then when you look at the younger end of the spectrum and you see Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker. We've got emails here galore on that and the point that most of them make is, if we understand the policy of getting rid of the big wages, but why get rid of the young talent as well?

KMc: I mean, you tell me, and the audience can tell me if they like, how do you stop a Premier League club buying your players?

Audience: Just say no

SB: Say no is the suggestion.

KMc: Let me say, with every player, you get an agent. It's not just the club and your player that's involved in this negotiation scenario. Now an agent who acts for players, the way the agent makes money is by moving players, getting new contracts for players. Clubs in the Premiership also employ agents to scout to get new talent for their challenges, and with respect this is the problem we've got because we're not in the top league. The Premiership TV revenues are so huge compared to the Championship, they have a buying power that we do not have. So if you get the good players, we're not an exception here, you want to keep talent.

The two lads I refer to are friends as well as Sheffield United players, or ex-Sheffield United players now, but what happened when the season ends, of course it's the agent acting for the player who looks to place the player, it's not Sheffield United because in many respects you're right, the players to us are relatively cheap and affordable because they're on contracts with us that have been negotiated. So you get an agent, acting for the lads, who then looks to place them at a club, to get, for the player at the club, the best possible deal that we cannot match. We simply cannot match.

Audience: But if they're still on contract with us we don't have to let them go.

KMc: I'm sorry, the answer is yes we do because players regrettably, and let's talk beyond Sheffield United, whether you're John Terry earning £100,000 a week, if you can go for £120,000 a week, you go. Right? Why? Because you want to earn that sort of money. Now you may be on a contract, in the case of the two Kyles with Sheffield United, a legal contract, but you cannot keep those players happy. If you've got that magic to do it, come and sit here. You can't do it, honestly.

SB: Let's bring in this gentleman over here.

Audience: Yeah, we're talking about the two Kyles and I think the majority of the people would probably agree that Kyle Naughton, whatever we got for him, whether it was £5 million or £6 million, would be a good deal for a lad who hadn't played a full season of football, I don't know if you agree or not. But Walker's a different kettle of fish. He's played five games, he couldn't have been on fantastic wages, you might have tripled his value in a year's time. So why the hell have you sold Kyle Walker?

KMc: Because you can't keep him because of the wages the Premier League club will pay him. You must understand this yeah? It's no good shaking your head. I'd love to have kept them but you can't keep them if a club will pay them so much more than we can afford to pay them, the player wants to go. Our players are no exception. I mean, if you were offered a job that was going to pay you another £15,000 a week, what would you do? Would you leave your current job?

Audience: I agree in that case, but I cannot understand that we could not have afforded Walker's wages. I can't believe that...

KMc: Well I can honestly say that is the truth. I mean, we're competing there with Tottenham Hotspur. If we're in the Premiership, it's a different matter. If we're in the Premiership, the vast majority of our squad would be on new contracts, not the existing ones that legally they have to adhere to. Because the club has to accept that you adapt to the changing circumstance of the league you've gone up in where all the players and their agents know that there's more income. And they want most of that income. Honestly, it's the proverbial rules of the jungle. If you could keep them, you'd keep them. Your comments are right, they're on contracts but do not believe, please do not believe that they will adhere to those contracts. Their agent will begin to look to move them on and the agent does very well out of every deal.

SB: Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker have the same agent, just so you know and he's a former Sheffield United player ironically. We'll speak to the lady in yellow over there in a moment but first the gentleman in the back.

Audience: How do Kevin. Were the moves initiated by the players themselves or by the club?

KMc: Ooo now, the moves were initiated by the players' agent. Now you can say that that's the self-same thing. Free enterprise says that in any industry, you have agents. Agents in football tend to be better profiled because they can be controversial but agents happen in any industry whether you're making and selling knives and forks. The agent fraternity in football... they're round watching our kids at the Academy, you can't really stop them coming to watch, can you?

Audience: Ban 'em!

KMc: Most of them come to games whether it's at Bramall Lane or Hillsborough or anywhere else in the country, watching kids. If they see talent, they'll go round to the family of the youngster, to talk to family. Because how does the agent make his living? He makes his living by earning fees, by moving players on and negotiating new player contracts. It is part of the football industry that over the last, I suppose, twenty five years has got stronger and stronger. If there was a way of stopping it, fine, but this is free enterprise.

Audience: Did Walker want to leave?

KMc: I don't think either of them wanted to leave, until, and the until bit is that a club comes along and the terms that they start to talk about to the players make their eyes water. As it would to yourself, yourself and myself, If somebody ends up offering you another, and don't quote me on the figures, £10,000 a week, what would we all say?

Audience: Were you happy, Kevin, with what we got for him?

KMc: I'd say very clearly I think for Sheffield United's viewpoint, the amounts we got for both of those lads must be some sort of record given the ages of those lads.

Audience: So you were happy?

KMc: No, I didn't say happy. I'm explaining to you. They were very well negotiated deals at the end of the day for the club. Not happy because...

SB: Can you just clarify what the two deals were? It's another big question I hear. A lot of fees are undisclosed. What the heck does that mean?

KMc: Well the overall package for the two lads is a £10 million package. Of which £8 million is guaranteed. Now, for me, that's a starting deal that for two youngsters, one of whom has played five league games. I think it was very well negotiated. And the rest is on appearances, there's also sell-on conditions if the two lads are sold by Tottenham for more than they've paid for them. I think it's been very well negotiated and tell me a better one. >>

I read that and want to shake McCabe by the lapels.

If he'd simply said we urgently needed to raise money, I'd have accepted it. But all that bullshit.....

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Walker played 9 times for us, Naughton played 42 before those transfers. You dont think that was good business? Yes, Walker is probably worth 25m and naughton about 7? but how would we know that from 9 games walker played?

Because one of the top Premiership clubs coming knocking should have been a clue.