Outgoing? Che Adams

[Sothall_Blade]

I read that and want to shake McCabe by the lapels.

If he'd simply said we urgently needed to raise money, I'd have accepted it. But all that bullshit.....

"Audience: But if they're still on contract with us we don't have to let them go.

KMc: I'm sorry, the answer is yes we do because players regrettably, and let's talk beyond Sheffield United, whether you're John Terry earning £100,000 a week, if you can go for £120,000 a week, you go. Right? Why? Because you want to earn that sort of money. Now you may be on a contract, in the case of the two Kyles with Sheffield United, a legal contract, but you cannot keep those players happy. If you've got that magic to do it, come and sit here. You can't do it, honestly."

How do we know this when we have never, ever tried it?

Just once, tell a player "No. You were happy to sign a contract and we're holding you to it". Let's see what happens.

Worst case scenario:- Player stops trying. Gets dropped and we sell them at the next window.

Best case scenario:- Player keeps trying. We get promoted. Player gets a pay rise or a move to an even bigger club.

Can't we just try this once before we say it's impossible?

 

[JohnDenver]

"Audience: But if they're still on contract with us we don't have to let them go.

KMc: I'm sorry, the answer is yes we do because players regrettably, and let's talk beyond Sheffield United, whether you're John Terry earning £100,000 a week, if you can go for £120,000 a week, you go. Right? Why? Because you want to earn that sort of money. Now you may be on a contract, in the case of the two Kyles with Sheffield United, a legal contract, but you cannot keep those players happy. If you've got that magic to do it, come and sit here. You can't do it, honestly."

How do we know this when we have never, ever tried it?

Just once, tell a player "No. You were happy to sign a contract and we're holding you to it". Let's see what happens.

Worst case scenario:- Player stops trying. Gets dropped and we sell them at the next window.

Best case scenario:- Player keeps trying. We get promoted. Player gets a pay rise or a move to an even bigger club.

Can't we just try this once before we say it's impossible?

The stuff about agents is largely bollocks and insulting to footballers who are, by his account, mere puppets.

 

[metalblade]

Fixed it for you with more sensible comments

UTB

OK Kevin MAK abe

 

[itsinyerblood]

"Audience: But if they're still on contract with us we don't have to let them go.

KMc: I'm sorry, the answer is yes we do because players regrettably, and let's talk beyond Sheffield United, whether you're John Terry earning £100,000 a week, if you can go for £120,000 a week, you go. Right? Why? Because you want to earn that sort of money. Now you may be on a contract, in the case of the two Kyles with Sheffield United, a legal contract, but you cannot keep those players happy. If you've got that magic to do it, come and sit here. You can't do it, honestly."

How do we know this when we have never, ever tried it?

Just once, tell a player "No. You were happy to sign a contract and we're holding you to it". Let's see what happens.

Worst case scenario:- Player stops trying. Gets dropped and we sell them at the next window.

Best case scenario:- Player keeps trying. We get promoted. Player gets a pay rise or a move to an even bigger club.

Can't we just try this once before we say it's impossible?

I've suggested your best case scenario several times Sothall_Blade, but the only response that seems favoured is to accept the selling of our best players. If we had a decent (note decent, not someone who'll never be fit to tie the laces of the want-away-player) replacement then I doubt most fans would complain, but we never go down this route, we just allow our palms to be greased and wonder where the money went.

I'd love us adopt the attitude of a WBA with their player Berahino, but of course that'll never do according to those who won't countenance a player being told they must remain. I doubt a player would drop his standards, what's he to gain? Surely the lowering of standards would only have a negative impact on potential suitors? I ventured that if we'd retained Murphy for a further year of his remaining two year agreement, with the promise that if we didn't achieve promotion he would be sold, that would at least show the club's ambition. Perhaps that was a little too radical for those posters who can only accept that selling players is the only solution that will satisfy a disgruntled player. I wonder where these same posters put the club's ambitions? Or should that come second to the ambitions of any player who wants away?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Just once, tell a player "No. You were happy to sign a contract and we're holding you to it". Let's see what happens.

Would love to see it, but it's so rare – the Stones/Berahino examples from the last window are extremely rare. Both of which appear to have worked for both clubs though – they've kept both, and despite the latter's hissy-fit in the immediate aftermath both are continuing to contribute.

For lack of anything else, it would be interesting to see what happens. Given the struggles to reinvest in the last window from the Murphy sale, we wouldn't be guaranteed in January that we could reinvest the cash. Every transfer is a gamble of sorts.

 

[sheffielder]

Would love to see it, but it's so rare – the Stones/Berahino examples from the last window are extremely rare. Both of which appear to have worked for both clubs though – they've kept both, and despite the latter's hissy-fit in the immediate aftermath both are continuing to contribute.

For lack of anything else, it would be interesting to see what happens. Given the struggles to reinvest in the last window from the Murphy sale, we wouldn't be guaranteed in January that we could reinvest the cash. Every transfer is a gamble of sorts.

It really hasn't worked out that well for West Brom. Despite the bravado, there are many players in that dressing room split over Berahino and the team is struggling. Is it a coincidence. Look at Chelsea and the sacking of Dr Eva. Let's not kid ourselves that the dressing room being ripped apart by that. The reaon Terry got dropped is because he questioned her treatment. In the end she had to go.

Murphy was not as desperate to leave as it has painted out. I believe he was given assurances that money would be invested and after the defeat at Gillingham decided to press the ejector seat. Turns out he was right not to listen in regards to investing in key areas of this team. Unfortunately us fans have no choice but to listen to the lies.

 

[Silent Blade]

I'd love us adopt the attitude of a WBA with their player Berahino

We did that with Devlin but he sulked, and his agent, Robert Seagal (think that was his name) tried to explain through the Star that Devlin bleeds blue as he is a Birmingham City fan, That was totally rubbish because Devlin is a big Celtic fan and when he was young his family would go on the coach (to Celtic home games) organised by the West Midland branch of the Celtic supporters club. Seagal really insulted the Blades fans by telling this lie which is typical of football agents. Devlin then made mistakes in the home game against Watford (we lost 2-0) and I got even more furious. We had to sell him to Birmingham a few months later

 

[S5Blade]

We did that with Devlin but he sulked, and his agent, Robert Seagal (think that was his name) tried to explain through the Star that Devlin bleeds blue as he is a Birmingham City fan, That was totally rubbish because Devlin is a big Celtic fan and when he was young his family would go on the coach (to Celtic home games) organised by the West Midland branch of the Celtic supporters club. Seagal really insulted the Blades fans by telling this lie which is typical of football agents. Devlin then made mistakes in the home game against Watford (we lost 2-0) and I got even more furious. We had to sell him to Birmingham a few months later

There is literally no point Silent. Our board are and always have been idiots, have no idea how to run a business or a football club and literally accept the first bid for any player regardless of amount and the thoughts of the player, manager or agents.

 

[Silent Blade]

There is literally no point Silent. Our board are and always have been idiots, have no idea how to run a business or a football club and literally accept the first bid for any player regardless of amount and the thoughts of the player, manager or agents.

We did reject a bid from Birmingham but it was Devlin's agent that manipulated things. I hate agents

 

[LoughboroBlade]

We did that with Devlin but he sulked, and his agent, Robert Seagal (think that was his name) tried to explain through the Star that Devlin bleeds blue as he is a Birmingham City fan, That was totally rubbish because Devlin is a big Celtic fan and when he was young his family would go on the coach (to Celtic home games) organised by the West Midland branch of the Celtic supporters club. Seagal really insulted the Blades fans by telling this lie which is typical of football agents. Devlin then made mistakes in the home game against Watford (we lost 2-0) and I got even more furious. We had to sell him to Birmingham a few months later

He'd also just signed a new four-year contract at the time too as I recall.

 

[itsinyerblood]

We did that with Devlin but he sulked, and his agent, Robert Seagal (think that was his name) tried to explain through the Star that Devlin bleeds blue as he is a Birmingham City fan, That was totally rubbish because Devlin is a big Celtic fan and when he was young his family would go on the coach (to Celtic home games) organised by the West Midland branch of the Celtic supporters club. Seagal really insulted the Blades fans by telling this lie which is typical of football agents. Devlin then made mistakes in the home game against Watford (we lost 2-0) and I got even more furious. We had to sell him to Birmingham a few months later

It's interesting Silent, we'll never know what might happen should we actually tell a player and his agent that a contract is meaningful. Murphy was an ideal situation for the club to adopt this position, he had two years left on his agreement and we could have used this to the club's best advantage, but hey ho, we wilted at the knees once again and acted like sluts at the first mention of money.

 

[Revolution]

Would love to see it, but it's so rare – the Stones/Berahino examples from the last window are extremely rare. Both of which appear to have worked for both clubs though – they've kept both, and despite the latter's hissy-fit in the immediate aftermath both are continuing to contribute.

For lack of anything else, it would be interesting to see what happens. Given the struggles to reinvest in the last window from the Murphy sale, we wouldn't be guaranteed in January that we could reinvest the cash. Every transfer is a gamble of sorts.

We did it with Jagielka in the summer of 2005 didn't we? And it worked.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

We did it with Jagielka in the summer of 2005 didn't we? And it worked.

He had a release clause in his contract of £4m didn't he, so presumably any bids would have fallen short of that?

Edit: actually, perhaps he didn't. He signed his last deal with us after promotion. This was what the line was in April 2005: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/warnock-reveals-jagielka-deadline-1-2366852

It's what I'd have preferred we'd have done with Murphy tbh.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

We did that with Devlin but he sulked, and his agent, Robert Seagal (think that was his name) tried to explain through the Star that Devlin bleeds blue as he is a Birmingham City fan, That was totally rubbish because Devlin is a big Celtic fan and when he was young his family would go on the coach (to Celtic home games) organised by the West Midland branch of the Celtic supporters club. Seagal really insulted the Blades fans by telling this lie which is typical of football agents. Devlin then made mistakes in the home game against Watford (we lost 2-0) and I got even more furious. We had to sell him to Birmingham a few months later

Different players react in different ways.
Does anybody seriously think that Blades supporter Walker would have behaved in the same way as Devlin?

Would love to see it, but it's so rare – the Stones/Berahino examples from the last window are extremely rare. Both of which appear to have worked for both clubs though – they've kept both, and despite the latter's hissy-fit in the immediate aftermath both are continuing to contribute.

For lack of anything else, it would be interesting to see what happens. Given the struggles to reinvest in the last window from the Murphy sale, we wouldn't be guaranteed in January that we could reinvest the cash. Every transfer is a gamble of sorts.

Didn't Rooney hand in a transfer request at Man Utd at one point? He was still there last time I looked.
How many times was Gerrard on the verge of leaving Liverpool for a "more ambitious" club?
They kept turning down offers and he very nearly helped them to their first top flight title in 20 odd years.

These are just the high profile players that we hear a lot about.
Up and down the country, there will be players still putting in a good shift for clubs who've rejected offers for them.
The player has as much to lose as the club if he gains a reputation for being a "sulker" who stops trying if he can't get his way.

 

[Silent Blade]

Different players react in different ways.
Does anybody seriously think that Blades supporter Walker would have behaved in the same way as Devlin?



.

Don’t know who is Walker’s agent, don’t know if he persuaded Walker to move to Spurs. I doubt it if the board persuaded Walker to go just like Charles Green did to some players in 1997.
Nowadays it is the Football Agents who are more influential in player’s movements than most football boards (especially in the lower divisions). I am surprised that many fans prefer to criticise the football board rather than the football agents

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Don’t know who is Walker’s agent, don’t know if he persuaded Walker to move to Spurs.
I doubt it if the board persuaded Walker to go just like Charles Green did to some players in 1997.
Nowadays it is the Football Agents who are more influential in player’s movements than most football boards (especially in the lower divisions). I am surprised that many fans prefer to criticise the football board rather than the football agents

Mark Rankine was the agent of both Walker and Naughton wasn't he? That was hinted at in the McCabe Q&A notes.

A football agent can find a buyer for a player and he can advise the player to move. That's how he makes his money.
However, he cannot force the selling club to sell if they don't want to.
He cannot force a player to stop trying in order to secure a move.
The player has to do that himself and I don't believe that Kyle Walker (and certain others) would have done that if asked to stay.
The agent works for the player not the other way around.

 

[Silent Blade]

Mark Rankine was the agent of both Walker and Naughton wasn't he? That was hinted at in the McCabe Q&A notes.

A football agent can find a buyer for a player and he can advise the player to move. That's how he makes his money.
However, he cannot force the selling club to sell if they don't want to.
He cannot force a player to stop trying in order to secure a move.
The player has to do that himself and I don't believe that Kyle Walker (and certain others) would have done that if asked to stay.
The agent works for the player not the other way around.

I remember reading a post just after we sold Jordan Slew (his agent is Rankine) that Wendy refuse to deal with Rankine because he is a troublecauser. I hope he doesnt represent any of our current players.

Did we ask Walker to stay?

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I remember reading a post just after we sold Jordan Slew (his agent is Rankine) that Wendy refuse to deal with Rankine because he is a troublecauser. I hope he doesnt represent any of our current players.

Did we ask Walker to stay?

Well we didn't really need to ask him but I suspect not given the money on offer (a "startling" amount according to McCabe).
Did we tell him he was staying and to get on with it? No
Did we tell him to give us another year and if he weren't promoted, he could go then? No
Did we refuse to deal with Rankine because he is a trouble-causer? No, but apparently Wednesday can

 

[bladesmanluke]

You disagree? £3m for a player who has played 9 games and £5m for a young player with one good season behind him in the championship after signing from Gretna? What would have represented fair market values for them?

9 games or not he was clearly fucking immense and was blowing the rest of the team out of the water at 18. So no it wasn't a good deal for a player that was clearly going to become a top class player. (clearly to people that know a good player)

 

[Silent Blade]

Well we didn't really need to ask him but I suspect not given the money on offer (a "startling" amount according to McCabe).
Did we tell him he was staying and to get on with it? No
Did we tell him to give us another year and if he weren't promoted, he could go then? No
Did we refuse to deal with Rankine because he is a trouble-causer? No, but apparently Wednesday can

It was probably Blackwell who advised the board that it was a "startling" offer. We did have him back on loan until Blackwell allegedly had an argument with Redknapp over Naughton going to Boro.
Maybe Wendy didnt ban Rankine in 2009? Could be after that? All agents are troublemakers anyway

 

[S5Blade]

9 games or not he was clearly fucking immense and was blowing the rest of the team out of the water at 18. So no it wasn't a good deal for a player that was clearly going to become a top class player. (clearly to people that know a good player)

You should be a football scout. Seriously.

 

[Bladesway]

I hope he doesnt represent any of our current players.

Well if the other 90 feel the same and ban him then I would be more than happy. It's probably the only way we can guarantee not selling someone for a bag of chips and a wank.

 

[Pierre's PC]

Fuck me, this is still going...

Toasting again in epic bread

 

[diplomat]

He'd also just signed a new four-year contract at the time too as I recall.

Did we sell him for slightly less than we paid for him with that bargaining chip held in a tightly grasped hand?

 

[diplomat]

Don’t know who is Walker’s agent, don’t know if he persuaded Walker to move to Spurs. I doubt it if the board persuaded Walker to go just like Charles Green did to some players in 1997.
Nowadays it is the Football Agents who are more influential in player’s movements than most football boards (especially in the lower divisions). I am surprised that many fans prefer to criticise the football board rather than the football agents

To be fair though, if I'm 19 and Spurs want to give me, let's say £15k a week as a starting point to see if I can make it. Probably on a 3-4 year contract. Knowing that you're at a club that will never leave the premises, might play in Europe, might win a cup, and if I do okay that £15k a week will become more like £50k per week. . . . . Then I'm off, even if I was the love child of Shred and Alan Hodgkinson. I don't think I need a Charles Green "encouragement". . . . And if I was a board member I'd take what was practically a million pounds a game played, hail the academy and politely ask Mr Blackwell not to spunk it all on the wages of a Ryan France.

 

[diplomat]

I remember reading a post just after we sold Jordan Slew (his agent is Rankine) that Wendy refuse to deal with Rankine because he is a troublecauser. I hope he doesnt represent any of our current players.

Did we ask Walker to stay?

A serious question here. Do you think it is possible for a club to refuse to do business with particular agents?

I think that there are plenty around to take a stand and say "well we like player X but he's got agent Y as representation, *sigh, oh well, we move on" If there is evidence to back an 'ethical' stance and let it be known to the youth that aligning with certain people would be to their detriment rather than benefit then I don't see a problem of justifying a club making such a choice in a free market.

 

[Revolution]

A serious question here. Do you think it is possible for a club to refuse to do business with particular agents?

Fwiw this definitely happens in US sport. Don't know of any English football examples

 

[Silent Blade]

A serious question here. Do you think it is possible for a club to refuse to do business with particular agents?

.

I remember reading somewhere that Crewe didnt deal with agents. Not sure if this is still the case. Blackpool did that too

EDIT; A quick look at google (am at work). It states in here that a few years ago that seven clubs didnt deal with agents. Dont know if this is still the case

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Gera...te-stay-game/story-19801532-detail/story.html

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

A serious question here. Do you think it is possible for a club to refuse to do business with particular agents?

I think that there are plenty around to take a stand and say "well we like player X but he's got agent Y as representation, *sigh, oh well, we move on" If there is evidence to back an 'ethical' stance and let it be known to the youth that aligning with certain people would be to their detriment rather than benefit then I don't see a problem of justifying a club making such a choice in a free market.

Players can use the PFA, James Milner does and he's moved around a few clubs without problems.

Why not place an ad in The Times.

Professional football club looking for 14 new players for 15/16 season, agents need not apply.

 

[Revolution]

I remember reading somewhere that Crewe didnt deal with agents. Not sure if this is still the case. Blackpool did that too

EDIT; A quick look at google (am at work). It states in here that a few years ago that seven clubs didnt deal with agents. Dont know if this is still the case

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Gera...te-stay-game/story-19801532-detail/story.html

Blackpool had a policy of not dealing with agents at all. That has not served them very well.

I have no problem with agents. You just need to negotiate with them in your best interests. The word "no" is useful.