Cannon goes off

[Lord Eddard Muir]

How many Championship goals does Marsh have? How many did he get in his loan spells in league 2? Might that be the reason?

Compare the results to Cannon's goals at Preston and Stoke. That's why.

Marsh has never made a Championship appearance, he can hardly be judged at this level until we give him a go. We have ample data on which to judge Cannon.

 

[AWetFlannel]

We can find plenty of examples of Campbell doing that. But he's got credit in the bank and he's scored 3 this season already.

Cannon can't hold a candle to Tyrese and the fact you've brought him up at all just completely invalidates any points(?) you were trying to make

He's not a scapegoat, he's just shit
Not every 'scapegoat' is a good player who's misunderstood, some are just shit

You can be a player in shit form, or a shit player, and a scapegoat. It seems you don't really understand what the word means.

He's been poor for us, I don't think he's misunderstood. But he's quite clearly been much better at Stoke, Preston and Leicester in the Championship, which suggests he's not simply a shit player.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Marsh has never made a Championship appearance, he can hardly be judged at this level until we give him a go. We have ample data on which to judge Cannon.

We can't use Marsh's cup appearances for us, or his performances in League 2, to make assumptions about his level? I used him as an example because we don't have ample data on him as a Championship striker.

But we agree there is ample data on Cannon. It shows multiple spells of frequent goalscoring, followed by a poor spell with us.

Which player is most likely to score goals at Championship level then, the one that has done it multiple times before, or the promising kid who struggled to do it two divisions lower?

 

[Badger Blade]

It's not like Cannon is out of form because he was never really in form to start with.

He hasn't got the excuse of coming back off a long layoff, he was playing at Stoke every week and has dined out on a one-off game against the might of Portsmouth.

If he wants out, then he needs to try harder to put himself in the shop window. If he wants to start games and score goals then its going to require some effort rather than relying on the ball magnetically coming his way. I do wonder whether he is, in Wilder's words "one of the players who takes us forwards" because he's got to go some between now and January. He's only 22 and doesn't want to be playing non-league by the time he's 30 but it could be where he ends up if he's not careful.

Lets face it, our recruitment of strikers overall has been very questionable since we were first promoted under Wilder with regards to signing players who can do it when they fancy it but overall have had a questionable attitude.

In my mind, the fact that the best, most consistent forwards we've signed since Wilder v1 took charge are Leon Clarke and David McGoldrick shows a massive blind spot in our recruitment until Campbell came in last season. You could argue a case for McBurnie in patches and Mousset for a season but really, most of the players we've signed in between have flattered to deceive.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

We can't use Marsh's cup appearances for us, or his performances in League 2, to make assumptions about his level? I used him as an example because we don't have ample data on him as a Championship striker.

But we agree there is ample data on Cannon. It shows multiple spells of frequent goalscoring, followed by a poor spell with us.

Which player is most likely to score goals at Championship level then, the one that has done it multiple times before, or the promising kid who struggled to do it two divisions lower?

No we can't, as they were a long time ago and the players involved not at Championship standard.

Re Cannon, what he has done elsewhere is irrelevant at this point. What we can say with some certainty is that in the not inconsiderable time he has been on the pitch for us, his contributions amount to one goal, a few assists, and an entirely unacceptable number of touches per game.

All we can say for sure about Marsh is he has outgrown the U23s, his earlier loans and the odd cup game in much-changed XIs are as irrelevant to what we could expect from him if slotted into our first team as Cannon's purple patch for Stoke.

 

[dexter101]

Whilst he is in a blades shirt, he will have my support and I will want him to find form, do better, find a solution to what is currently an issue for him and the club.

Also, he isn't "wank". he's a young lad who has done enough to be valued at £10m and be playing championship football (and have a record of scoring in the championship with other sides).

The reality is though that I am struggling to see a solution for him:

More game time
playing in his preferred role not out wide
having a strike partner (although why Ings was dropping so deep was beyond me)

mattbianco1 made a good point in that a lot of CF that join us just don't seem to be get a good return. Our style of play requires CF to do the leg work, rather than the traditional "put the ball in the net"

I do get frustrated when he doesn't seem to want it though. There was a moment last night when there keeper slipped and I shouted at the TV to "go". I would put money that any other forward player would have closed the keeper down enough to force a chance. Cannon, looked like was going to do it and then seemed to slow. If he was still on the pitch, I don't think he gets into the place to finish that final goal.

We don't have any other real options so again, I will keep hoping we can make it click, but I wish he would at least give us something back.

 

[Torrix1889]

Cannon is struggling, not sure he will ever come good to be honest but at the moment as has been said, we have very little option other than to include him.

Something has obviously gone off with One, presume injured but there has been literally zero said about him for weeks. Campbell can't actively complete 90 minutes, blowing out of his arse after 60. Ings not yet up to speed but again, doubtful he can complete a full 90.

Marsh has been scoring and playing well for the U21's, for as effective as Cannon is, (or isn't) he probably deserves a place on the bench.

Probably the only other option is playing Ogbene centrally. Either way, striking reinforcements are desperately needed come January.

 

[AWetFlannel]

No we can't, as they were a long time ago and the players involved not at Championship standard.

Re Cannon, what he has done elsewhere is irrelevant at this point. What we can say with some certainty is that in the not inconsiderable time he has been on the pitch for us, his contributions amount to one goal, a few assists, and an entirely unacceptable number of touches per game.

All we can say for sure about Marsh is he has outgrown the U23s, his earlier loans and the odd cup game in much-changed XIs are as irrelevant to what we could expect from him if slotted into our first team as Cannon's purple patch for Stoke.

I disagree, I think Marsh's performances in League 2 last season give us an idea as to what we could expect from him in the Championship, just as Cannon's performances last season (and in previous seasons for other clubs) can.

Those assumptions can be wrong. Marsh could take to it immediately and look good at this level, just as Cannon has turned up and not played well despite having a decent amount of game time.

It annoys me that people suggest that it's an obvious decision to drop the senior striker with pedigree to play the unproven kid. I'd be excited if it happened, and wouldn't complain, but to suggest that the manager is compromised if he doesn't do it is moronic.

Had Barry played well against Watford, I'm sure he'd have started again, he was picked over Cannon only a few days ago. Eventually, enough players will pick up enough form and fitness to force Cannon out unless his form improves. The hate from some (not you) is infectious and unhelpful.

 

[Booker4]

Hes had a decent scoring record elsewhere though which makes me think he's just not suited to our style of play but I'm not sure what would suit him. Probably playing off a Kieffer Moore type. He looks like he's very much a confidence player and he's lacking any.

Was the event Wilders choice?! Hopefully he'll go on like an in January and regain some interest from other clubs. He is aggression/desire but doesn't make up for that with anything else of note. We know he can finish from other loan spells but I'm guessing he was playing more on the counter with lesser sides and had more space whereas most teams sit deep v us.

 

[Need4speed]

There needs to be a proper plan for Cannon now. In my mind his confidence is shot and to keep throwing him in or on is not going to help at all. The trouble is we are actually short of strikers or strikers that could play 90 minutes game in game out. Nothing new because Moore played very few minutes from January up to the playoffs. I don't know where Oné is because at the moment he would be a better bet than Cannon Having said that I would send Cannon on holiday and then play him in U21s see how that goes but mostly then try and loan out in January. We need to sign 2 decent strikers in January, probably the best we can hope for is one on loan. We will not progress as a team until we have more goals in us. It is criminal the likes of Marsh haven't gone out on loan and this must also be a priority in January. Once we look safe I think attention needs centring on building for next year. Realistically look at the squad and think who we are going to have to lose, apart from Hamer, who if we could get decent money for i would sell in January.

 

[Roygbiv]

Hes had a decent scoring record elsewhere though

Not sure this is true. He's scored 20 goals in 80 Championship games. 4 being pens, 4 coming in 1 game.

 

[Zeblades34]

Get rid for me. Either a loan out to get him game time and a proper crack at it then look at it again in summer or cut losses and get rid. Nowhere near a £10m player imo, i look at him and think he looks like a free punt that wilder likes to normally try and rejuvenate.

 

[Ginger Gnome]

Should give Cannon a few games in the under-21s to see of he can actually perform in competitive games, he must do something right in training but his performances this season aren't doing anything for the team or himself, he doesn't suit one up front but looked totally hopeless in a front two as well, sometimes a player just doesn't fit in.

One was one of the only good performers in Selles' last game despite ending up at right wing back but he's never been seen since. Marsh is the best natural finisher at the club and could probably link up well with O'Hare as a deeper striker in a way that Ings didn't look particularly comfortable with last night. Either one of them (or both as Matos isn't really needed on the bench) should be on the bench ahead of Cannon, at worst they'd offer absolutely nothing in attack and give the ball away leading to the opposition scoring, so no downside compared to what we're using already.

 

[true99blade]

Simply isn’t working hard enough. He obviously doesn’t want to be here so get rid. Wilder needs to stop fucking playing him, his obscene price tag is somehow becoming less justified with every appearance. People will cite Brewster as our worst ever signing for the price tag, but there was promise and proof he could be a decent player… Cannon has never been that good, and Wilder set us back massively wasting such money.

 

[TJ blade]

You said the only reason that Cannon plays instead of Marsh, One and Beattie is that he costs a lot of money.

You're ignoring his record at this level, and the non-record of those young players that should be out on loan.

Ignoring his record at this level! Are you fucking mad its shit! Think your looking for any excuse to move away from the fact he cost 10 fucking million pounds ffs!

 

[AWetFlannel]

Ignoring his record at this level! Are you fucking mad its shit! Think your looking for any excuse to move away from the fact he cost 10 fucking million pounds ffs!

Why would he cost £10mill if his record was shit? I've looked at his record today, I assume you've not or don't know what a good record looks like.

I know Messi, Ronaldo and Kane score in nearly every game, but they're the exception pal.

 

[TJ blade]

Why would he cost £10mill if his record was shit? I've looked at his record today, I assume you've not or don't know what a good record looks like.

I know Messi, Ronaldo and Kane score in nearly every game, but they're the exception pal.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I'll take that as a "I've got no argument".

 

[TJ blade]

I'll take that as a "I've got no argument".

Take it as you want pal hes still shit for 10 mill

 

[bakeblade]

Made me laugh when he was stood in the middle of the celebrations at the end hands on hips looking thoroughly bored.

Called it before we signed him, he doesn’t impact games. Hes got no outstanding attributes. He’s not big, strong, fast or skillful. He’s got a good clean shot if he can get one off but is totally reliant on service. We weren’t a team creating plenty of clear chances last season, never mind this season. Don’t wish him any ill will but he was totally the wrong player, the wrong fit.

We need to loan him out and allow him to rebuild away from United. Get his confidence built back up and move him on.

Well he had a chance to get a good clean shot off yesterday and totally scuffed it. It was the only time in the match he could be arsed to have a run and find himself some space.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Take it as you want pal hes still shit for 10 mill

I think he's shit for £10mill, you were struggling to argue something quite different. I'll allow you to move the goalposts and have us agree though, if it saves you some embarrassment.

 

[TJ blade]

I think he's shit for £10mill, you were struggling to argue something quite different. I'll allow you to move the goalposts and have us agree though, if it saves you some embarrassment.

Its all about opinions pal... struggling to argue/ embarrassment maybe time you had a visit to the docs mate, it's obvious you've got a problem

 

[Slim Man]

Its all about opinions pal... struggling to argue/ embarrassment maybe time you had a visit to the docs mate, it's obvious you've got a problem

He has. You get used to it.

 

[Inter_blade83]

I disagree, I think Marsh's performances in League 2 last season give us an idea as to what we could expect from him in the Championship, just as Cannon's performances last season (and in previous seasons for other clubs) can.

Those assumptions can be wrong. Marsh could take to it immediately and look good at this level, just as Cannon has turned up and not played well despite having a decent amount of game time.

It annoys me that people suggest that it's an obvious decision to drop the senior striker with pedigree to play the unproven kid. I'd be excited if it happened, and wouldn't complain, but to suggest that the manager is compromised if he doesn't do it is moronic.

Had Barry played well against Watford, I'm sure he'd have started again, he was picked over Cannon only a few days ago. Eventually, enough players will pick up enough form and fitness to force Cannon out unless his form improves. The hate from some (not you) is infectious and unhelpful.

I don’t think there's hate. It's just blatantly clear that Cannon doesn't do the bare minimum you'd expect from a Sheffield United player... put effort it and run your bollocks off.

I made this point a few weeks ago and he hasn't changed. If you get a start or the last 20, or even the last 5. Run, run, run... if something isn't happening or rhe ball isn't coming your way... MAKE IT HAPPEN. Force errors, put a tackle in, jump for a ball you know you're not winning just to put the defender off.

He does nothing. Ever. An absolute waste of a shirt in the team when he's on the pitch. He needs to go somewhere where he can swan around for 60 mins and someone feeds him the ball. Wilders football isn't like that. You've got to work.

As Warnock once said. You've got to fucking die to get three points.

 

[CPB]

I feel a bit for him on the one hand.
I think he came in thinking he would get easy service and just finish off goals.
First few games he looked just lost and off the pace which was odd given he had been playing regularly for Stoke.

Became a mainly subs player with the odd start afterwards and even his goal Vs Burnley didn't kick him on.

This season fresh slate under Selles and he is played on the left. Wilder comes back and not much has changed.

He is the only one who can rectify his career here without going out of the club. For me he needs to get into the mindset of just doing the basics and putting in 100% effort. Chasing down more like COH will help to endear slightly to the crowd.

There must be a player in there but I don't know if we will ever see it here.

For me I would try and loan him out in January try and get his confidence up and if we can get suitable replacements in.

 

[CPB]

I don’t think there's hate. It's just blatantly clear that Cannon doesn't do the bare minimum you'd expect from a Sheffield United player... put effort it and run your bollocks off.

I made this point a few weeks ago and he hasn't changed. If you get a start or the last 20, or even the last 5. Run, run, run... if something isn't happening or rhe ball isn't coming your way... MAKE IT HAPPEN. Force errors, put a tackle in, jump for a ball you know you're not winning just to put the defender off.

He does nothing. Ever. An absolute waste of a shirt in the team when he's on the pitch. He needs to go somewhere where he can swan around for 60 mins and someone feeds him the ball. Wilders football isn't like that. You've got to work.

As Warnock once said. You've got to fucking die to get three points.

100%

 

[Blademan89]

I don’t think there's hate. It's just blatantly clear that Cannon doesn't do the bare minimum you'd expect from a Sheffield United player... put effort it and run your bollocks off.

I made this point a few weeks ago and he hasn't changed. If you get a start or the last 20, or even the last 5. Run, run, run... if something isn't happening or rhe ball isn't coming your way... MAKE IT HAPPEN. Force errors, put a tackle in, jump for a ball you know you're not winning just to put the defender off.

He does nothing. Ever. An absolute waste of a shirt in the team when he's on the pitch. He needs to go somewhere where he can swan around for 60 mins and someone feeds him the ball. Wilders football isn't like that. You've got to work.

As Warnock once said. You've got to fucking die to get three points.

Genuinely feel that sufc could pick a random season ticket holder to swap for 1 match with cannon and that they would be more effective, lad looks like he won a raffle and makes me bitterly disappointed knowing players like him and others are professional footballers getting paid 20k a week having less talent than a lot of people that havnr made it.

As you say even if it's not going your way you have to put yourself about & he juet doesnt seem to do anything.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

I’m sorry but if he gets anywhere near the team Friday then we want justification off CW as to his inclusion. No matter how many chances you give him he will never pay you back his transfer fee with a performance. He gives nothing, players don’t look for him because he can’t do…why would you!!

“We want justification off CW”…..listen to yourself.

 

[Blade45]

I don't think he's a talentless footballer. He showed something at Stoke, something that was apparently worth 10 million pounds. The thing I can't get over is that he quite obviously doesn't care enough to work hard. Rhian Brewster was not prolific at all for Sheffield United, but you could never doubt that he cared. He had a positive attitude, even after injury setbacks. He wanted to contribute to our squad.

I don't think Cannon cares.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Shirt auction on! Cannon's currently stands at £15...going once...going twice...