Can we make it bigger?

[Fulwood Blade]

Sounds good....so are you happy to stop going to Bramall Lane for a full 2 years?
There’s a real risk that some of our previously loyal fans get out of the habit, find something else to do and never return. It would put an abrupt halt on floating support, potential support, students from attending a single home game for at least 2 years.

Remember if we re-do the whole Kop, the capacity would be 20,000 for a minimum 2 years.
That’s 17,000 home fans with 3000 away fans, the PL won’t allow any club to give away fans less than 3000 or 10% of the capacity, which ever is lower. So we;d be obliged to give away fans 2000 in the lower tier meaning 1000 seats would be wasted due to segregation. Assume we give away clubs the full 3000.

Alternatively we could have a raffle system for those 17,000 home seats but you can guarantee whatever we do regarding a total rebuild it will seriously piss off many life long fans when it dawns on them they may miss loads of home games.

I can appreciate all of the problems you've noted and the SS upper tier would have to be built first. As posted before the rebuild of Liverpools main stand had a ROI of just 3 years. Now I appreciate we aren't in their league, but United would have a seat buffer while the kop could be redone, plus hopefully match day income would increase from the inevitable prawn sandwich brigade.

The kop as someone posted before was done on the cheap - it really does belong in the last century which is when it was built. The entire underneath could be put to good use instead of the earth that is their presently to create decent pre-match facilities. Home fan areas such as Newcastles St James Park is mega moons in front of what we offer and with Spurs setting new bench marks for stadia design, we should at least offer our home fans something better.

For all the problems involved, it has to be done properly - especially if we want to move on as a football club.

Our facilities, even in South Stand are an absolute disgrace, but still better than the kop. Their is zero room pre-match in South stand even to walk to your seat without hassle. Again to repeat whats been written hundreds of times - anyone above six foot tall cannot sit comfortably on the kop. Me (6'2") and my boy (6'4") cannot sit on the kop, but we are very noisy on SS and always when going away. Perhaps if the facilities were better on the kop, we could go back and the continued crap atmosphere on the kop that some fans talk about may return.

There should always have been a master plan - except there wasn't - just a piecemeal development which is what we've ended up with.

BDTBL will always be home - the least we can do is have something more than idiots design it and continuing to build cheap.

The catalyst could very well be CW - he's started a ball rolling and we need to keep it rolling and hopefully over the next few years money can be found to create better facilities.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Is the existing Kop to remain in terms of the concrete strata? I ask because I'd love us to have more leg room on the Kop, not just for the new section at the back.

The lack of leg room is something that has never been acknowledge by the people at the Lane.

It's a head in the sand situation even when the new rear of the stand was originally proposed to add 4K seats.

The people proposing the kop extension haven't a clue what they are talking about - if they had a PROPER consultation with ALL fans, all of these issues would come out in the open.

The kop presently has 10,450 inadequate seats built in a rush, on the cheap (think Woolhouse was the chairman) following the H'boro disaster and before the millions now available through the Premier League.

UTB

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Do you know of any examples of a stand holding greater than 10,000 being demolished and rebuilt and open to the general public in 6 months?

Do you know many single stands that took two years ? Spurs built an entire stadium in 3 years ?

Who says it’s going to get entirely demolished have you seen the pictures of the proposal it clearly isn’t going to get demolished all together

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

="FallowfieldBlade, post: 1967494, member: 20672"]Do you know many single stands that took two years ? Spurs built an entire stadium in 3 years ?

Who says it’s going to get entirely demolished have you seen the pictures of the proposal it clearly isn’t going to get demolished all together

Apologies if you were talking of purely the expansion option, I thought you were amongst those saying due to serveral reasonable points the stand needs doing properly and rebuilding.

The SS will clearly be done first, if any, due to the financial and commercial opportunities, however I can see the Prince not being interested at all should he win the power struggle. He’s looking for a return not a legacy.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Do you know of any examples of a stand holding greater than 10,000 being demolished and rebuilt and open to the general public in 6 months?

The Japanese would have the Kop ripped down and fully rebuilt in 6 months,have you seen them work on sink holes.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The Japanese would have the Kop ripped down and fully rebuilt in 6 months,have you seen them work on sink holes.

Nice, but won’t happen and would cost a fortune.

 

[vorpal blade]

I think there is a philosophical problem to re-building the Kop entirely.

As noted and made obvious by lack of knee-room, the current stand packs too many seats into too little space for modern comfort standards and possibly the rules for NEW structures (though I haven't looked them up recently) laid down by FIFA or the English building regs.

So if you completely rebuild it, you have to make it a bigger structure just to equal the current ground capacity. Let alone make it hold more people than it does at present.

That said, and we all know, it is past it's use by date.


(btw, I'm sure the Japanese are so good at repairing/rebuilding buildings, roads. railway lines etc. because they are so used to having them destroyed fairly regularly by earthquake.)

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think there is a philosophical problem to re-building the Kop entirely.

As noted and made obvious by lack of knee-room, the current stand packs too many seats into too little space for modern comfort standards and possibly the rules for NEW structures (though I haven't looked them up recently) laid down by FIFA or the English building regs.

So if you completely rebuild it, you have to make it a bigger structure just to equal the current ground capacity. Let alone make it hold more people than it does at present.

That said, and we all know, it is past it's use by date.)

Agree the Kop is very much past its “use by” date, however my view is that removing the thick pillars and putting the concourse areas under cover, a bigger concourse area with modern/ larger toilets, kiosk and bars would be a significant upgrade. It would also look much much better inside and out. It would make financial sense, relatively low costs to make, hardly decreases the capacity whilst building is being done, increases the capacity when finished and a quicker return on investment

In the 80’s no one complained that the Kop was too cramped, uncomfortable with poor views because if you wanted better then you could pay slightly more to sit in the South stand. I really believe that the Kop should remain the cheapest stand in the ground, so people have choice. The South stand capacity would increase from 8K to 14K, so there would be plenty of seating for taller people wanting more knee room.

Heard people say a totally new stand could mean we can build corporate banqueting facilities in the Kop but I’m sure there’s a saturation point. We would already be doubling our corporate/ banqueting facilities when the South stand is built, so do we reallyneed more facilities under the Kop too, bearing in mind that as you get closer to the bottom of the stand useable area starts to diminish under the seating, also we already have executive facilities in the John Street.

I would think an architect has done plans and costings for several different options including building a totally new stand.

 

[BushBlade]

Presumably no one will object to paying a bit more on ticket prices for the better facilities.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Presumably no one will object to paying a bit more on ticket prices for the better facilities.

That was my thought too, you would expect them to be almost identical to the South stand prices.
Some people would no doubt pay more for better facilities on the Kop but i think it’s really important to have a cheaper / value area in a stadium with more basic facilities, so people have a choice between choosing quality seating or more basic lower cost seating.

 

[BushBlade]

That was my thought too, you would expect them to be almost identical to the South stand prices.

Not after we’ve done the south stand up.

 

[vorpal blade]

In the 80’s no one complained that the Kop was too cramped, uncomfortable with poor views because if you wanted better then you could pay slightly more to sit in the South stand.

fair enough - that makes you in favour of the proposals as they stand I suppose?

I guess the hazard may be that government/council may impose restrictions on the existing part of the Kop, like wider walkways etc. and that there may be structural problems created or unearthed by works to the rearward extension that has planning approval.
Usually the building regs aren't retrospective but actions on football stadium safety sometimes (reasonably) are.

Also, I don't think the current proposals make any allowance for provision of 'safe-standing'.

Look at the way the police feel the need to cordon off areas of seats at Bramall Lane (and even bigger areas of Hillsborough). That is potentially a threat to any old areas of terracing - less to brand new stands built to current standards. In future if they closed down the old part of the stand, SUFC would be in a pickle, hemmed in by the new stand at the back ... then again, nothing is impossible. BUT if the old section were to be rebuilt at any time, it would be smaller capacity .... unless great design gymnastics were brought to bear.

 

[alcoblade]

There you go in all it's glory .............
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/shef...h-could-take-capacity-beyond-40-000-1-8968704

Aye, I was aare of that - but these are lans submitted to get building approval. I donlt believe we have any solid "plans" to execute any of it yet.

Anyway, my main point was that it would be an unviable "seated" fill in if done without major structural work on the kop.

 

[Sheffsteel]

fair enough - that makes you in favour of the proposals as they stand I suppose?

I guess the hazard may be that government/council don't impose restrictions on the existing part of the Kop, like wider walkways etc. and that there are no structural problems created or unearthed by works to the rearward extension that has planning approval. Usually the building regs aren't retrospective but actions on football stadium safety sometimes (reasonably) are.

As a fan I’m not in favour....would ideally like it flattened and rebuilt with more knee space and a similar Kop capacity to now.
I also want prices to remain the same and it continue to be the cheapest area of the ground.

but if it was my money and I was owner I’d want the best value, offers the most income short and long term for the least cost.
Wouldn’t necessarily want the cheapest option, would pay more but there would need to be benefits to it.

 

[Chali 2na]

For the record, I'm 6ft 4 and sit on the kop.

It's a little cramped, but by reading this thread you'd have thought I needed to amputate my legs in order to have been sitting here for the last decade.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

I think there is a philosophical problem to re-building the Kop entirely.

As noted and made obvious by lack of knee-room, the current stand packs too many seats into too little space for modern comfort standards and possibly the rules for NEW structures (though I haven't looked them up recently) laid down by FIFA or the English building regs.

So if you completely rebuild it, you have to make it a bigger structure just to equal the current ground capacity. Let alone make it hold more people than it does at present.

That said, and we all know, it is past it's use by date.


(btw, I'm sure the Japanese are so good at repairing/rebuilding buildings, roads. railway lines etc. because they are so used to having them destroyed fairly regularly by earthquake.)

Basing your thoughts on "new structures" if we did go ahead and just do the rear of the Kop as is proposed,the new seating would be different to the existing ?

If the new seats did have better leg room and were at a steeper angle so you have a better view over the big fat bloke sat in the seat infront (restricted view) i would move up to the new seats,i could see a mad scramble to get them,we might have to draw lots.

 

[nopigfansintown]

For the record, I'm 6ft 4 and sit on the kop.

It's a little cramped, but by reading this thread you'd have thought I needed to amputate my legs in order to have been sitting here for the last decade.

I'm the same height. In my experience it depends where you sit on the kop. The higher up you go the less of an issue it is.
I can remember Kev McCabe and Jim Phipps talking about the egress and half time crushing posing problems on the Kop. They felt that it would have to be rectified at some point as it was being very closely monitored by te authorities. It was during one of the cup runs under Clough when the ground was packed.Maybe Spurs or Charlton?

 

[Sheffsteel]

For the record, I'm 6ft 4 and sit on the kop.

It's a little cramped, but by reading this thread you'd have thought I needed to amputate my legs in order to have been sitting here for the last decade.

I’m 6 foot 1 and agree.
I’ve sat in several areas on the Kop, currently I’m in the seats low down just behind the goal, find that if you keep your legs apart (then your knees slot into the edges of the seat in front) but it’s a struggle to bring your knees together, it can be uncomfortable but it’s not that bad. It helps if you stand up every now and then to stretch your legs, which I do anyway, so I’m fine.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

If we’re gonna put an office block between the Kop and South Stand. I would like to see the same office block design in all four corners the ground. Both the Westfield and Pukka pies stands are probably the worst 2 examples of football stadium architecture I’ve ever seen

 

[nopigfansintown]

Interesting bit on the bottom of an email I've just received from the club:

*If promotion to the Premier League is secured, works will have to be carried out on Bramall Lane in order to meet the statutory requirements of the league. This may affect a small proportion of existing season ticket holders' seats. Those affected will be contacted directly by the club.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

There's no need for a bigger stadium unless you're consistently selling out.

When was the last time we were consistently selling out?

It's never happened in my lifetime.

We sold out EVERY game during our last Premier League campaign.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

If we’re gonna put an office block between the Kop and South Stand. I would like to see the same office block design in all four corners the ground. Both the Westfield and Pukka pies stands are probably the worst 2 examples of football stadium architecture I’ve ever seen

Westfield Corner looks great... Pukla Pies corner not so great. Should just knock it down tbh

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

I can appreciate all of the problems you've noted and the SS upper tier would have to be built first. As posted before the rebuild of Liverpools main stand had a ROI of just 3 years. Now I appreciate we aren't in their league, but United would have a seat buffer while the kop could be redone, plus hopefully match day income would increase from the inevitable prawn sandwich brigade.

The kop as someone posted before was done on the cheap - it really does belong in the last century which is when it was built. The entire underneath could be put to good use instead of the earth that is their presently to create decent pre-match facilities. Home fan areas such as Newcastles St James Park is mega moons in front of what we offer and with Spurs setting new bench marks for stadia design, we should at least offer our home fans something better.

For all the problems involved, it has to be done properly - especially if we want to move on as a football club.

Our facilities, even in South Stand are an absolute disgrace, but still better than the kop. Their is zero room pre-match in South stand even to walk to your seat without hassle. Again to repeat whats been written hundreds of times - anyone above six foot tall cannot sit comfortably on the kop. Me (6'2") and my boy (6'4") cannot sit on the kop, but we are very noisy on SS and always when going away. Perhaps if the facilities were better on the kop, we could go back and the continued crap atmosphere on the kop that some fans talk about may return.

There should always have been a master plan - except there wasn't - just a piecemeal development which is what we've ended up with.

BDTBL will always be home - the least we can do is have something more than idiots design it and continuing to build cheap.

The catalyst could very well be CW - he's started a ball rolling and we need to keep it rolling and hopefully over the next few years money can be found to create better facilities.

UTB

It’s a football stadium I’m sure they have plenty of leg room and can get to there seats easily at the Emirates and grounds like hull derby boro etc .

But all these new builds grounds are characterless

Bramall is one of the best grounds going it needs a bit of modernising in terms of facilities like toilets but keep it like it is.

Doing the south stand up is not needed even if we go up. It would be embarrassing having nearly half a stadium empty.

Just do the kop and that’ll be fine

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

We sold out EVERY game during our last Premier League campaign.

And we’ve been in the premier league for one year out of 20 we don’t need a 40k plus stadium

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Tell you what would make the stadium look nicer new seats on John street the seats are more pink than red due to the sun

The same thing happened at Sunderland where the seats faded into a pink and they’ve just replaced them

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

If we’re gonna put an office block between the Kop and South Stand. I would like to see the same office block design in all four corners the ground. Both the Westfield and Pukka pies stands are probably the worst 2 examples of football stadium architecture I’ve ever seen

No they are not it adds character to the stadium

Would you rather have four stands like Preston ?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

We sold out EVERY game during our last Premier League campaign.

I don't think we did.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

I don't think we did.

2006/07 season
Average home league attendance: 30,684

That was a number of years ago now, with the size of the Premier League in 2019 you could sell many more tickets.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

2006/07 season
Average home league attendance: 30,684

That was a number of years ago now, with the size of the Premier League in 2019 you could sell many more tickets.

So we didn't sell out every match then if the average attendance was only 30,684.

 

[tincan]

More to the point - where are these extra fans coming from? I dont know of any floating fans who will follow us in the PL.