Outgoing? Bogle

[Mojo]

I'm confused who this £10-20 million player Bogle is?

We have a lad called Bogle who is a reserve right wingback. He scored a few goals but I can't remember him being particularly creative going forward or putting a lot of great crosses in. I do remember him being dire in the air, poor in the tackle, sloppy at marking, often out of position and genuinely quite weak.

Do you remember him finishing better than any of our strikers against west brom?

The lads only 20 coming into a struggling side playing against some of the best attackers in the world, why don't you give the lad a break before you write him off

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Norwich are known for not being flash with their cash.

So for that reason I say fuck 'em, price them out of a deal.

Exactly. At 17/18 the lad clocked about 12 assists in his debut season. In his second he did well enough to earn a Premiership move & then he had a big impact on our attacking play when we eventually threw him in. He struggled a bit going backwards, particularly with his positional play, but he's a very young lad & that stuff can be coached. In a Jokanovic side (remembering his attacking wide players at Fulham) he could be a huge difference maker for us next season.

 

[Yogi]

Exactly. At 17/18 the lad clocked about 12 assists in his debut season. In his second he did well enough to earn a Premiership move & then he had a big impact on our attacking play when we eventually threw him in. He struggled a bit going backwards, particularly with his positional play, but he's a very young lad & that stuff can be coached. In a Jokanovic side (remembering his attacking wide players at Fulham) he could be a huge difference maker for us next season.

Sessegnon has many of the same issues in that Fulham side. The solution was to move him further up the pitch and let him play with complete freedom I’m really interested to see what Slav will do with bogle.

 

[jono_t2000]

I'm confused who this £10-20 million player Bogle is?

We have a lad called Bogle who is a reserve right wingback. He scored a few goals but I can't remember him being particularly creative going forward or putting a lot of great crosses in. I do remember him being dire in the air, poor in the tackle, sloppy at marking, often out of position and genuinely quite weak.

Since when have Norwich cared about defending. Aarons who he's pretty much replacing is just as naff with his defensive abilities anyway.

 

[Gin&Juice]

I keep thinking if we revert to 4231 - the classic designer manager formation. Could Bogle on the right of a 3 with someone like Sessengan on the left be a potential next season?

 

[Sheff de party]

I'm confused who this £10-20 million player Bogle is?

We have a lad called Bogle who is a reserve right wingback. He scored a few goals but I can't remember him being particularly creative going forward or putting a lot of great crosses in. I do remember him being dire in the air, poor in the tackle, sloppy at marking, often out of position and genuinely quite weak.

Ten years of reading posts on this board and I honestly think this is the harshest in yet.

He’s young, quick, skilful, determined and clever with an eye for goal. He will be a very good footballer I reckon.

 

[robbiez666]

Ten years of reading posts on this board and I honestly think this is the harshest in yet.

He’s young, quick, skilful, determined and clever with an eye for goal. He will be a very good footballer I reckon.

He's a defender who can't defend. Baldock is twice the player.

Yes he has talent and will no doubt improve but in a COVID world some of the figures being mentioned are ridiculous.

 

[Mojo]

He's a defender who can't defend. Baldock is twice the player.

Yes he has talent and will no doubt improve but in a COVID world some of the figures being mentioned are ridiculous.

He's 20. You are not paying for the finished article, you are paying for potential.

 

[jono_t2000]

He's 20. You are not paying for the finished article, you are paying for potential.

100% has a much higher ceiling than Baldock imho

 

[robbiez666]

Just want to point out that I'm not writing the lad off but just making the point that he's not worth some of the figures being quoted. We paid over the odds for him in the PL. There's a lot of potential there but he's certainly not a player you'd sign to be first choice as RB/RWB in the PL.

I hope he comes good for us but he's clearly second choice as a RWB behind Baldock, who is super fit and hardly likely to lose that over the next 2-3 years. The comparison with Max Aarons is a bit bizarre given he's been first choice RB in a PL and promoted championship team over the last two seasons (as opposed to first choice in a bottom half Championship team and then reserve in a PL team)

In the current climate and the need to raise money if someone offers us high single figure millions for him then you have to sell really. There are too many negatives currently to be able to trust him to start as he is.

 

[Weasel]

Not sure that you can say we 'paid over the odds'? As I understand it we paid £5m for both him and Lowe as Derby were skint and needed some money ASAP. It was a complete steal (even if I still can't understand the logic on taking Lowe as well as I'm neve been overly convinced on him).

Not dismissing your main point though as I also think some prices mentioned are a little daft, but that said you price a player compared to the market for similar players and we have an inflated transfer market prices for young English players with potential. Bogle is certainly one of those. If he goes Utd should be looking to get a premium for him.

 

[robbiez666]

Not sure that you can say we 'paid over the odds'? As I understand it we paid £5m for both him and Lowe as Derby were skint and needed some money ASAP. It was a complete steal (even if I still can't understand the logic on taking Lowe as well as I'm neve been overly convinced on him).

Not dismissing your main point though as I also think some prices mentioned are a little daft, but that said you price a player compared to the market for similar players and we have an inflated transfer market prices for young English players with potential. Bogle is certainly one of those. If he goes Utd should be looking to get a premium for him.

fair points. It just seems strange to me that a club which has paid over the odds for young players (Brewster, McBurnie) signed a Derby right back for a steal (without any competition if I remember correctly). Seems odd for a club who were desperate for money not to try and start a bidding war or that any other club wouldn't want to sign someone with so much talent for not a lot). The cynic in me is highly suspicious!

 

[Balham Blade]

Bottle isn't as good as Baldock defensively, that's clear. However, Baldock's attacking output is absolutely woeful and if we're playing wingbacks they have to be able to cross and shoot.

Back 4: Baldock

Wingback in the Championship: probably Bogle

Comparisons to Aarons are valid IMHO and Aarons playing more is down to a lack of competition than anything else.

 

[Nelson1889]

fair points. It just seems strange to me that a club which has paid over the odds for young players (Brewster, McBurnie) signed a Derby right back for a steal (without any competition if I remember correctly). Seems odd for a club who were desperate for money not to try and start a bidding war or that any other club wouldn't want to sign someone with so much talent for not a lot). The cynic in me is highly suspicious!

I think with those mentioned we have actually got 3 different scenarios.

I think we underpaid for bogle when you look at what a young english championship player with great upward potential would normally go for.

I think we paid about right for McBurnie (although many would disagree) who at the time was off the back of a great season in the championship and had the pedigree over a few seasons.

And I think we overpaid for brewster who at the time was hyped up based on half a season at Swansea and the fact we were pretty desperate and Wilder stuck all his eggs in one basket. However if he gets 25 in the championship you could argue he goes back to being worth what we paid.

End of the day players are only ever worth what someone is willing to pay for them

 

[ancientblade]

interesting one this with bogle if we play with wingbacks he will be competing with baldock but if slav goes for 4 at the back in either a 433 or 4231 set up he could well end up on our right side further up the pitch personally think it would give us a very good right flank

 

[Le Cynique]

I've said this about a million times now, but I don't see Bogle's eventual preferred position as RB or RWB, but in a more attacking role. Bale started as a full-back. The right coaching and development, and nurturing his natural tendency to bomb forward and take a shot, could see us with an effective and exciting winger or even AM.

 

[blades78]

I've said this about a million times now, but I don't see Bogle's eventual preferred position as RB or RWB, but in a more attacking role. Bale started as a full-back. The right coaching and development, and nurturing his natural tendency to bomb forward and take a shot, could see us with an effective and exciting winger or even AM.

He's got the ability but I don't think he's got the pace.

 

[Weasel]

I've said this about a million times now, but I don't see Bogle's eventual preferred position as RB or RWB, but in a more attacking role. Bale started as a full-back. The right coaching and development, and nurturing his natural tendency to bomb forward and take a shot, could see us with an effective and exciting winger or even AM.

I see him as being a natural right sided midfield player who could with a little bit of coaching and more playing experience be a great player in that position. He's not a natural defender but does a bit of everything (most of it well but there is plenty still to work on in his game).

With his background of wing back/full back it could work really well on the right hand side with Baldock. I'd definitely be trying to keep the lad for next season.

Whilst loath to mention the unclean or give them any sort of credit at all (it's like giving some positive comment to the shit you might find on your shoe after a walk in the countryside), I would mention that under Big Fat Racist Ron they did try something similar down their left hand side late 80s / early 90s with the Nigel Worthington and Phil King partnership who were originally both full backs who liked to attack. Tbf to them they were a handful down that wing at the level they played at. Utd could so similar with Baldock and Bogle.

 

[ancientblade]

I've said this about a million times now, but I don't see Bogle's eventual preferred position as RB or RWB, but in a more attacking role. Bale started as a full-back. The right coaching and development, and nurturing his natural tendency to bomb forward and take a shot, could see us with an effective and exciting winger or even AM.

know its unlikely but i would really like us to go 433 next season with baldock rb and bogle rm what a combination that would be at championship level

 

[Sheff de party]

He's a defender who can't defend. Baldock is twice the player.

Yes he has talent and will no doubt improve but in a COVID world some of the figures being mentioned are ridiculous.

Baldock has eight years more experience of playing professional football though, and none of our players could defend last year. Our best defender I think is Egan, and he looked poor most of the year.

It’s good to have both, keeps up the pressure on whoever has the shirt and as long as they both stay, we don’t need to go shopping. We’re very strong there.

 

[BushBlade]

Bottle isn't as good as Baldock defensively, that's clear. However, Baldock's attacking output is absolutely woeful and if we're playing wingbacks they have to be able to cross and shoot.

Back 4: Baldock

Wingback in the Championship: probably Bogle

Comparisons to Aarons are valid IMHO and Aarons playing more is down to a lack of competition than anything else.

Doesn’t a full back have to be able to cross too? I’m struggling to think of a team that plays with a back four where the full backs aren’t expected to provide width in attack and put crosses in.

 

[Balham Blade]

Doesn’t a full back have to be able to cross too? I’m struggling to think of a team that plays with a back four where the full backs aren’t expected to provide width in attack and put crosses in.

Not as much as wingbacks. Either way, Baldock's attacking output is negligible at best.

 

[BushBlade]

Not as much as wingbacks. Either way, Baldock's attacking output is negligible at best.

That’s the point I’m making really. Even if we did switch to a back four, he’s still going to have to cross and he’s not been very good at it.

 

[bongleblade]

I think we paid about right for McBurnie (although many would disagree) who at the time was off the back of a great season in the championship and had the pedigree over a few seasons.

And I think we overpaid for brewster who at the time was hyped up based on half a season at Swansea and the fact we were pretty desperate and Wilder stuck all his eggs in one basket. However if he gets 25 in the championship you could argue he goes back to being worth what we paid.

End of the day players are only ever worth what someone is willing to pay for them

by logic of OMB being worth £20m when we got him, Brewster will be worth much more after 25 goals at that level. I'd imagine circa £30m, someone like Villa would pay it. He is young, english and still has his name tied to Liverpool. Up until last season was one of the most hyped English players

 

[Nelson1889]

by logic of OMB being worth £20m when we got him, Brewster will be worth much more after 25 goals at that level. I'd imagine circa £30m, someone like Villa would pay it. He is young, english and still has his name tied to Liverpool. Up until last season was one of the most hyped English players

Could be right but he's going to have to have a storming season for the majority of people to forget he didn't score or do much of anything in the Premier league. He'd be a gamble still at what we paid let alone £30m

 

[Yogi]

That’s the point I’m making really. Even if we did switch to a back four, he’s still going to have to cross and he’s not been very good at it.

Saw a bit of a breakdown of Slav’s Fulham side and it was interesting. Now obviously this is with the caveat that he will probably play differently here but at Fulham the right back was expected to push right up overlap and get into the box cutting the ball back from the byline. This contrasted with the left back who was expected to play further back but still contribute to the attack by crossing from deep. This meant that if the ball was turned over the left back could kick inside to form a back 3 whilst players got back. So in the situation a lack of real crossing quality from the right back isn’t a problem but being a good crosser is a necessity for the leftback.

 

[Charlieblade]

I don’t get the idea of many posters on here, suggesting that we need to sell any number of our players just to fund a supposed shortfall in income. We don’t need to sell players.
There already exists a lack of succession planning for the likes of Basham and Didsy.
If Bogle is sold, posters would be demanding cover/replacement for Baldock.

Midfield is woefully thin as it is and people still suggest it would solve our supposed financial woes if Berge left! Give the promotion push a real chance by keeping potential for at least a season to try and get the club back in the PL.
One year on, Bogle will still command a premium as a young English prospect when the cost of importing talented youngsters comes up against work permit issues.

Im not suggesting Bogle might make a good keeper or a centre half, but moving Basham from midfield to CB was a canny move.

 

[andy m]

Doesn’t a full back have to be able to cross too? I’m struggling to think of a team that plays with a back four where the full backs aren’t expected to provide width in attack and put crosses in.

England

 

[ancientblade]

baldock and the rest of our wide players will have to play a different game under slav very much doubt we will be pissing about playing in triangles out wide instead of getting the crosses in to the box lets see what happens with different tactics

 

[Colombia Blade]

I don’t get the idea of many posters on here, suggesting that we need to sell any number of our players just to fund a supposed shortfall in income. We don’t need to sell players.

It's because the same "reliable" sources that claim Berge is available for £13 million are the same ones that say we have a £40 million "shortfall". They've misunderstood the information - we don't have a shortfall of £40 million to make up, we have a reduction in income of £40 million (actually closer to £50 million) - not the same thing. Adding up the fees we've supposedly paid, the wages we've supposedly paid, and whatever we had to pay to McCabe suggests we've either come out of the Premier League with a little profit, or at the very least broken even. We now have £45 million this season, £35 million next season and £15 million the season after. If our wage bill was £30 million last season as I've seen reported, and this is reduced due to relegation clauses, we still have a nice chunk of money from the parachute payments. Sell some players, we'll have even more for Slav, but we don't need to sell if we don't want to (or the price isn't right).