Blades fans Fighting each other......

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Darren said:
Really? I am surprised the police will agree to that. It seems to me they could say, "by putting on this event, you are creating a potential public order problem, which we have a duty to police and which you should pay for" and refuse to allow the game to be played unless they do pay.
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So my brother in law tells me. He's a police inspector who leads the policing of football matches in his county so I assume is in a position to know. I certainly didn't see any coppers inside - though a fair few on the concourse outside.
 

SheepdipBlade said:
So my brother in law tells me. He's a police inspector who leads the policing of football matches in his county so I assume is in a position to know. I certainly didn't see any coppers inside - though a fair few on the concourse outside.
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The law was acually set by a case Reg Brealey had against the police in the early 80's. The law then was that the police could charge if someone had services from the police over and above those normally provided (it derived from a case where a coal owner had police protect his pit during a strike) Brealey argued that he was quite happy to not have the police at all at the ground and so shouldn't have to pay if the police insisted in coming in. The Court said that if you organise an event with a potential for disorder that the police have a duty to police, you have to pay for it.

I can only assume that Wembley are able to convince the police their stewards can cope with any disorder, so police are not needed.
 
Darren said:
No-one is going to anythig unless someone makes a proper complaint tothe police and there is a proper investigation followed by a prosecution and a finding of guilt.

It would be completely wrong to ban people for life on the basis of internet gossip.
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Putting aside whether it is or isn't internet 'gossip', this is based on supporters who attended the game and reported what happened. Surely that's not 'gossip'? It's what actually happened, therefore the club would be well within it's rights to act appropriately.
 
Darren said:
The law was acually set by a case Reg Brealey had against the police in the early 80's. The law then was that the police could charge if someone had services from the police over and above those normally provided (it derived from a case where a coal owner had police protect his pit during a strike) Brealey argued that he was quite happy to not have the police at all at the ground and so shouldn't have to pay if the police insisted in coming in. The Court said that if you organise an event with a potential for disorder that the police have a duty to police, you have to pay for it.

I can only assume that Wembley are able to convince the police their stewards can cope with any disorder, so police are not needed.
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Dunno about the details mate. He did say that the company who run the stadium also do big music events such as Glastonbury where coppers are kept out too.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Putting aside whether it is or isn't internet 'gossip', this is based on supporters who attended the game and reported what happened. Surely that's not 'gossip'? It's what actually happened, therefore the club would be well within it's rights to act appropriately.
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So, someone rings up the club and says "I saw a bloke in seat 324F punch someone" and that should be enough for a ban for life?
 
Darren said:
So, someone rings up the club and says "I saw a bloke in seat 324F punch someone" and that should be enough for a ban for life?
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Can you tell me where I said anything about ringing the club? With your legal background that's disappointing.

Written details with the backup of meeting a club representative to confirm these details. As this has been reported by many posters on here then it's not one person't opinion, but a response to something that was an offence. Surely you don't wish to have thick twats causing trouble that has the potential for serious damage. Or shall we just adopt a 'there's nothing we can do' attitude?
 
alcoblade said:
Leave it and move on, surely. Did this act really ruin the day for everyone, or those around it? Wasn't it just an unsavoury 5 minutes?

Let's not make a bigger deal out of it - it will only make the club look bad.

All IMHO, obviously.

UTB
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Leave it and move on? Are you for real? The shit bags fighting in the upper tier didn't ruin my day but certainly left a bitter taste my mouth on an otherwise superb day. If I had have been in the block where they were scrapping then it would have ruined my day and I'm sure it ruined it for a good many who were sat nearby. To suggest that we 'leave it and move on' is frankly ludicrous.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Can you tell me where I said anything about ringing the club? With your legal background that's disappointing.

Written details with the backup of meeting a club representative to confirm these details. As this has been reported by many posters on here then it's not one person't opinion, but a response to something that was an offence. Surely you don't wish to have thick twats causing trouble that has the potential for serious damage. Or shall we just adopt a 'there's nothing we can do' attitude?
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If you're doing something as serious as banning someone for life I would suggest a proper procedure with a proper investigation is in order, which includes allowing the accused person to put his side of the story

That's why a proper police investigation and trial is necessary. I recently did a case where a bloke was stopped from going to South Africa for the World Cup because he associated with dodgy characters (no suggested he was a hooligan). There is too much knee jerk reaction in policing of football. Someone meeting with the club and saying "x did Y" and the club then banning them is precisely that.
 
Karaoke Blade said:
Think I was fortunate, as where I was sat (Block 545) the only 'violence' I encountered was from the stranger sat next to me who had me in a bear hug when we scored the first two!
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Must admit everyone around me started hugging each other when we scored our opening goal. I think that sort of summed up how long we had been waiting to score at Wembley. It was funnier when we scored our second everyone seemed to fall over when that went in. I turned to my right and most of the fans had landed in a big pile celebrating scoogs goal.
 
I would imagine that there is a decent CCTV system inside the ground and that once any disorder gets reported to or noticed by a steward, that this would be relayed to a control room somewhere who are able to direct the appropriate cameras, thus supporting any allegations. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be something reasonably sophisticated put in place when the stadium was built.
That said, I would wonder how often they experience groups of 'fans' from the same team, wading into one another.

I suggest that anyone who was close enough to describe / identify those involved and feels strongly about it, should make a complaint.
 
Thankfully we saw no bad from 549.. Although the man in The Green Man who couldn't stay on his feet at 12.30pm may have had a few issues...! He fell over, his mates picked him up & sat him on the bench next to us, telling him to sit still! He decided to stand up, fell over, hit the bench and then onto the floor - and that was 12.30pm.
 
Darren said:
If you're doing something as serious as banning someone for life I would suggest a proper procedure with a proper investigation is in order, which includes allowing the accused person to put his side of the story

That's why a proper police investigation and trial is necessary. I recently did a case where a bloke was stopped from going to South Africa for the World Cup because he associated with dodgy characters (no suggested he was a hooligan). There is too much knee jerk reaction in policing of football. Someone meeting with the club and saying "x did Y" and the club then banning them is precisely that.
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I completely agree with that. Due process does need to be seen to be done, but you know as well as I do, that even though everyone should be entitled to a fair trial and fair representation, that there are supporters who contributed to this affray. Otherwise those who witnessed what happened must have suffered a mass hallucinatory moment.

A good case in point are those people who killed Stephen Lawrence. They may still be free, but they are being pursued by the police for a very obvious reason, and it's not because they are innocent. Yes, give them the full weight of having their day(s) in court, with all the mechanisms they are entitle to. If they're innocent they'll walk free, if not then they'll spend many years locked up.

So I take it you're all in favour of thugs being prosecuted, good to know Darren.
 
Darren said:
So, someone rings up the club and says "I saw a bloke in seat 324F punch someone" and that should be enough for a ban for life?
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If the actual victim says "I was sat in 324E and the guy behind me punched me".

The other person becomes the 'witness?'
 

William Large said:
I would imagine that there is a decent CCTV system inside the ground and that once any disorder gets reported to or noticed by a steward, that this would be relayed to a control room somewhere who are able to direct the appropriate cameras, thus supporting any allegations. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be something reasonably sophisticated put in place when the stadium was built.
That said, I would wonder how often they experience groups of 'fans' from the same team, wading into one another.

I suggest that anyone who was close enough to describe / identify those involved and feels strongly about it, should make a complaint.
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It's virtually certain that if someone can ID a seat number there will be CCTV footage.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
If the actual victim says "I was sat in 324E and the guy behind me punched me".

The other person becomes the 'witness?'
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The guy behind might say "actually I didn't punch him. I was pushed from someone behind me and fell forward whacking the chap in front". As the "punched" chap was hit from behind how could he contradict that?
 
If that's how people choose to spend their day then good luck to them. As long as they don't start trying to forcible influence how others spend their day. Laugh my bollocks off when I hear about people so drunk they call asleep during the match and miss it all. Can't say I would like being sat next to them tho.
 
itsinyerblood said:
I completely agree with that. Due process does need to be seen to be done, but you know as well as I do, that even though everyone should be entitled to a fair trial and fair representation, that there are supporters who contributed to this affray. Otherwise those who witnessed what happened must have suffered a mass hallucinatory moment.

A good case in point are those people who killed Stephen Lawrence. They may still be free, but they are being pursued by the police for a very obvious reason, and it's not because they are innocent. Yes, give them the full weight of having their day(s) in court, with all the mechanisms they are entitle to. If they're innocent they'll walk free, if not then they'll spend many years locked up.

So I take it you're all in favour of thugs being prosecuted, good to know Darren.
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You are missing the vital issue of identification. I don't doubt there was some violence. The issue is who did it

I am now sure what SL's killers have to do with it, but two have been convicted.
 
Darren said:
The guy behind might say "actually I didn't punch him. I was pushed from someone behind me and fell forward whacking the chap in front". As the "punched" chap was hit from behind how could he contradict that?
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I quote:

someone rings up the club and says "I saw a bloke in seat 324F punch someone"
 
Darren said:
It's virtually certain that if someone can ID a seat number there will be CCTV footage.
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My thoughts entirely. It would (hopefully) clear up any arguments / defences of innocence and rightly assist in prosecuting those in the wrong.
 
I too was in block 534. I think I was one of the few that actually saw us score our third goal as everyone was watching the ruck.
There was one positive in it all and that was the spontaneous booing which quickly started and became a mass chant of "wankers wankers" aimed at the idiots...however the prize twat in the blue jacket and cap who appeared to be at the centre of it all took this as his personal ovation and held his arms aloft wide and proud.
I went to the loo pre game and at half time....both times there were at least three lads in the first cubicle doubtless having a dab of the white stuff...
Also when our second goal went in me and the three guys next to me got a soaking as the lads behind chucked their drinks over our backs...not just a splash but a complete wet down...I turned to remonstrate and got the old " not me mate" blank look. I let him know my opinion of him but I certainly didn't want to fight him over it, just some manners - a simple apology to me and the others (who I didn't know) was the least we expected. But nothing more than a cocky shrug...Unfortunately there was a bit of something in the air yesterday...
Happily the massive majority had a massively better day of it than those morons...
And the atmos back on the tube was great too. Up the Blades and fuck the fuckwits.
 
Samantha said:
Thankfully we saw no bad from 549.. Although the man in The Green Man who couldn't stay on his feet at 12.30pm may have had a few issues...! He fell over, his mates picked him up & sat him on the bench next to us, telling him to sit still! He decided to stand up, fell over, hit the bench and then onto the floor - and that was 12.30pm.
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Bloke in the service station at Leicester Forest could'nt stand up ....that was at around 10 am. Perhaps he sobered up for the kick off!
 
Darren said:
You are missing the vital issue of identification. I don't doubt there was some violence. The issue is who did it

I am now sure what SL's killers have to do with it, but two have been convicted.
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Doesn't having a fair trial as I mentioned mean that the accused are in court because they've been identified? To me that was obvious. Not mentioning it doesn't mean I missed anything relating to that essential part of this procedure.

As regards SL's killers, yes, two were charged and found guilty, and as for the relevance of mentioning this, this was violence that lead to death, as any case of violence can lead to. If there isn't a resonating link between this and what could potentially happen at a match then you've lost me.
 
Dnblade said:
There were no problems around where I was...feel sorry for those that had to put up with it,and with kids around it makes it even worse....Seems Hull had there own idiots..it's not just United,it happens with a lot of clubs.

http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/258053-Ultra-Annoying-quot-fans-quot
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Noticed this but I am sure others read the 4th post on there.

"Had some god knows who behind me, think they were Chelsea fans as they were banging on about Chelsea, or shouting "go on hull" with London accents."

So not only did they not sell out but they had some Chelsea fans in their end? I guess they will fill their end with Chelsea fans in the final.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Doesn't having a fair trial as I mentioned mean that the accused are in court because they've been identified? To me that was obvious. Not mentioning it doesn't mean I missed anything relating to that essential part of this procedure.

As regards SL's killers, yes, two were charged and found guilty, and as for the relevance of mentioning this, this was violence that lead to death, as any case of violence can lead to. If there isn't a resonating link between this and what could potentially happen at a match then you've lost me.
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Identification is one of the most difficult areas of criminal law. I have had two cases where people have been picked out on ID parades by the victim and charged and were subsequently shown (by CCTV evidence showing they were elsewhere at the material time) to be completely innocent.
 
Darren said:
I thought you were putting the different scenario of a bloke saying he was punched from behind.
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Not different scenario just trying to say that if someone reports to the club/police that they saw someone in seat x throw a punch then this witness becomes important if someone near that seat then claims to be a victim.

I agree it is difficult just on hearsay and no victim.
 
Darren said:
Identification is one of the most difficult areas of criminal law. I have had two cases where people have been picked out on ID parades by the victim and charged and were subsequently shown (by CCTV evidence showing they were elsewhere at the material time) to be completely innocent.
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Then presumably those accused and identified would eventually either be found guilty or innocent? I can't see what the problem is.
 

Darren said:
If its reported to the Met, they would have to investigate. Someone just needs to make a formal report (with seat numbers if possible).
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See my earlier post, but I reported the incident in block 128, literally 5 minutes after it happened to the nearest police officer. Who said they were simply on a watching brief and couldn't do anything about it.

I took that as, they just didn't give a shit.
 
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