Blades Against Racism

[FMBlade1]

What you’re proposing is illegal and with good reason. The fact that it’s private property is neither here nor there.

Really? What law does it break?

By purchasing a ticket you agree to the terms and conditions, once of which already is that you may be filmed and recorded (by TV companies for example).

I'm just suggesting more cameras and audio recording equipment. If you think that's a threat on your civil liberties, you are free to choose not to attend matches.

This measure would increase the capturing of unacceptable racist abuse and lead to bans (and re-education) for those who made them.

 

[Boxadan]

It was 'You're just a town full of ISIS' and it was being sung by more than a few around me at the back of the Kop. The startling part was when it was brought up in the media and some fans tried to make out it didn't happen. Granted it wasn't thousands, thankfully, but it most certainly did happen.

yes that's the one.

 

[Bert]

For those of us not sure as to the scale of the issue; if you use the colour of someone's skin as the first indicator when describing someone.

Actually a black person of Bert's acquaintance very often refers to the colour of a black person's skin when trying to describe someone to Bert.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Unbelievable left wing claptrap.

Aye - I’m surely am a snowflake, bleading heart, woke, leftwing corbyn lover for not wanting people to be open to the type of abuse that mgoldrick received or a to see an issue with a cop standing on a black guys neck for nearly 9 minutes until he dies.

 

[Dkc]

Then don't go into the ground. Which is private property.

Sean Thornton I'm saying more cameras and more audio equipment placed directly in the terraces.

Have you heard of the GDPR? It covers private property and companies as well as public spaces

 

[FMBlade1]

Have you heard of the GDPR? It covers private property and companies as well as public spaces

So? As terms and conditions of buying a ticket you consent to it. Problem solved.

Its the same when you buy a train ticket. Lots of CCTV recording equipment in each carriage, why not in each terrace with audio equipment?

 

[Dkc]

Really? What law does it break?

By purchasing a ticket you agree to the terms and conditions, once of which already is that you may be filmed and recorded (by TV companies for example).

I'm just suggesting more cameras and audio recording equipment. If you think that's a threat on your civil liberties, you are free to choose not to attend matches.

This measure would increase the capturing of unacceptable racist abuse and lead to bans (and re-education) for those who made them.

You can't legally record people's conversations regardless of whether you put it in the T&C of your venue

 

[Davalon]

Fair play Steve Mackan I'm all for sensible apolitical approach to dealing with this.

All I'd say is we need to acknowledge that plenty of people, myself included, are more than happy to acknowledge black lives matter but aren't comfortable with the wider politics of the BLM movement. No need to go further it's been well covered.

Merch purchased. Good work

 

[FMBlade1]

You can't legally record people's conversations regardless of whether you put it in the T&C of your venue

Erm.... train companies do?

 

[Tony]

Aye - I’m surely am a snowflake, bleading heart, woke, leftwing corbyn lover for not wanting people to be open to the type of abuse that mgoldrick received or a to see an issue with a cop standing on a black guys neck for nearly 9 minutes until he dies.

Of course I did. Think before writing. I'm pretty average and hate any kind of discrimination, but don't want it rammed down my throat by the likes of you and your pathetic reply.

 

[Dkc]

So? As terms and conditions of buying a ticket you consent to it. Problem solved.

Its the same when you buy a train ticket. Lots of CCTV recording equipment in each carriage, why not in each terrace with audio equipment?

It's not illegal to have video surveillance in certain situations but it's illegal to record people's conversations to check if they say anything racist

 

[Davalon]

So? As terms and conditions of buying a ticket you consent to it. Problem solved.

Its the same when you buy a train ticket. Lots of CCTV recording equipment in each carriage, why not in each terrace with audio equipment?

I think it would be possible to have more audio around the stands without physically recording conversations from every seat.

Not up on the law of stuff like this but if TV can pick up individual fans shouting, I'm sure we could have microphones at the front or middle of stands for instance.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So? As terms and conditions of buying a ticket you consent to it. Problem solved.

Not sure that’s how it works, even if you consent by buying a ticket you can request any personal data is deleted and they’d have to prove to you that it’s done.
It would also need significant audit activities to be completed to prove no data ever goes outside the organisation or is lost.
It’s also concerning how happy you are to sign away your rights and how trusting you are in whatever the state decides it should have access to in the future.

 

[184blade]

If the club publicised a number you could text the seat number ( or just general area) of some one using racist language during the game then perhaps stewards could be directed to look out for it. Repeat offenders would be identified eventually with out the need to record audio.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If the club publicised a number you could text the seat number ( or just general area) of some one using racist language during the game then perhaps stewards could be directed to look out for it. Repeat offenders would be identified eventually with out the need to record audio.

Club could do an app that would alert on this as well. There’s lots that could be done without bugging every seat.

 

[Worksop II]

If the club publicised a number you could text the seat number ( or just general area) of some one using racist language during the game then perhaps stewards could be directed to look out for it. Repeat offenders would be identified eventually with out the need to record audio.

Excellent idea .... but hang on, the others sat next to the offender front, back, either side didn't report him .......

Bastards, lets have them out as well ............ if your not part of the solution, you are the problem ......

 

[LoughboroBlade]

It's not illegal to have video surveillance in certain situations but it's illegal to record people's conversations to check if they say anything racist

The law is pretty strict for companies but there are exceptions. Helping detect crime being one. I believe this still applies post-GDPR.

I think it would be possible to have more audio around the stands without physically recording conversations from every seat.

Not up on the law of stuff like this but if TV can pick up individual fans shouting, I'm sure we could have microphones at the front or middle of stands for instance.

When there was racism from Yeovil fans earlier in the season that saw their game at Haringey Borough abandoned, there was no surveillance due to it being a small community club. The TV camera footage taken by the media that were there that day was taken and analysed by the police called to the ground. From chatting to one of the officers there, the microphones by the pitch were able to pick the stuff up, they could not use it easily to identify the people concerned. In fact the case is still ongoing right now despite this all happening last October.

 

[The Hobott]

I used to go to some evening away matches (though not since league 1 so maybe things have changed) and in my experience there were a lot of racist comments made - mainly by people who had had a lot to drink.

 

[dan.]

A lot of the online racism that's similar to what McGoldrick experienced are just sad trolls that do it because they think it's funny - they know it will get a reaction, and are hidden by a veil of anonymity. No amount of education on racism will ever stop stuff like this happening. If anything, the more attention it gets, the more these sorts of people will do it.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Hi all

With the backing of the Football Supporters Association, myself and the DB gang have started a Blades Against Racism campaign.

I have been working on diversity issues with the FSA for over a year now, which has mostly involved supporting the work and campaigns of other clubs. In that time I have been thinking about what I could do - and asking 'does anything need to be done?' - at my own club.

Timing and events have led me to think that something does need to be done. And I've outlined my thoughts on the problems of racism among Sheffield United fans here. (When I say fans, I am including myself.)

We're taking early steps by spreading the simple message of 'Blades Against Racism'. You can grab a badge/sticker bundle here - with a 50p postage charge.

But these are only the first steps. Loads of fans have contacted me with ideas and messages of support asking 'What can I do to help?' and the frank answer to that question is: 'to be confirmed'. I am posting here because I know there will be members of the S24SU community who may have missed my postings on Twitter, but will be keen to get on board as BAR progresses.

If you'd like to get involved, especially if you're from a BAME background, then let's talk about it...

... do you think racism is present in stadia?
... do you think racism is present online?
.. what can be done among the grassroots to make racists feel uncomfortable?
... how does the club fulfil its promise of 'something has to change' without alienating some fans?

Full of admiration for you, re this initiative. Very best of luck with it.

There‘s a lot I’d like to say, in response, all of it supportive. But given the current ban on discussing “politics” here, I’m not at all clear what is and isn’t permitted.

So I’ll respond to the question you ask about the presence of racism inside Bramall Lane on matchdays by giving a personal anecdote, rather than by arguing a position.

For the last 9 years in the South Stand, I’ve sat next to a white bloke in his late 60s / early 70s who keeps up an occasional, irregular, but steady enough stream of low-level racist shit, game after game, season after season, whenever the opportunity arises. He’s affable, friendly, funny, intelligent, warm, knows football, knows music, knows politics ... and he’s racist to the fucking bone.

95% of the time it comes out in ways that some posters on here would not necessarily see as problematic. “You what?”, shouted at the announcement of a non-Anglo sounding, black substitute’s name. “’Ere, would you like some [exaggerated tone] ‘dark chocolate?’—oh, we’re not allowed to say that anymore, are we?”. Visiting team with lots of black players—“EFL? It’s not an English Football League, this”, etc.

There’s been two occasions over the years when I‘ve had a proper go at him. Most of the time, though, I’ve learned to counter it with a quiet, “Steady on”, or a “You can’t say that”, and he seems to respect me enough, or be just about self-aware enough, to shut the fuck up.

But the point of the anecdote isn’t my reaction to him. It’s the reaction of the two black kids who used to sit right in front of us, aged 7 or 8 when they first started coming, usually with a black parent or grandparent.

I still see those two lads on the concourse, and at away games. I don’t see them sat in front of us anymore. Their seats, prime seats with a great view, are now taken by older family members (the boys’ mum and her sister, I think) who will occasionally turn around and give the bloke next to me a stare.

Those two lads, now aged 9 or 10, have moved to seats elsewhere in the stand.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Maybe I'm missing the point a bit but this isn't just about outing some neo nazi standing up on the kop with his arm out shouting horrible things at black players. I think anyone doing that at Bramall Lane may end up seeing stars.

Just because that doesn't happen anymore doesn't mean there's not still work to do on the subject of racism.

This is about listening, learning and proving a platform for change.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Whilst I totally abhor racism and would love to see it eradicated at BL and in football in general, I’m uncomfortable with the prospect of people reporting others at matches via apps or hot lines because they don’t like something that was said.

I really don’t mean to trivialise the disgusting impact of racism being raised on this thread but there are lots of other unacceptable conversations in football crowds.

And when I say unacceptable I mean to me, so maybe not to others.
Examples I have heard at the Lane:

Get your tits out for the lads
Ginger twat
Irish tosser
Fat bastard
Does your boyfriend know you’re here (at Brighton fans)
Bald twat
Fucking midget
And I don’t like any swearing in front of kids generally.

So maybe I’d report any one coming up with this stuff and say they were being racist as that is more in the spotlight than say sexism, homophobia, ageism etc at the moment. Or maybe they will have a raised profile later down the line. I wouldn’t but hopefully you see my point.

I expect lots of abuse on here now for conflating racism with other issues, but wanted to raise this to point out that there are lots of issues out there that ought to be addressed. Do we want to do this by reporting each to some VAR type panel who arbitrate on what is acceptable?

 

[PocketNines]

Love the concept, Steve. More could and should be done to ensure people of any race aren't subject to any form of discrimination, even from a small minority.
If, in the short term we can't eradicate it from society, we could at least eradicate it from our stadia. I believe that a stronger emphasis on pinpointing the racists and removing them from our grounds entirely would send a strong message. Given our current position in the footballing world, we are in a great position to enhance our reputation as a truly inclusive family club and can lead by example with no half measures with regards to racists.

 

[S6 Blade]

Maybe I'm missing the point a bit but this isn't just about outing some neo nazi standing up on the kop with his arm out shouting horrible things at black players. I think anyone doing that at Bramall Lane may end up seeing stars.

Just because that doesn't happen anymore doesn't mean there's not still work to do on the subject of racism.

This is about listening, learning and proving a platform for change.

Bang on this.

 

[Rodley]

Would be interesting to see the views of BAME community regulars and visitors BEFORE the rest of us chime up.

THIS

 

[Cheesebored]

People's opinions count. Not just yours. This is what our fathers fought for.

Unfortunately Tony your terminology belongs in a bygone age much like that that your father or my grandfathers may have used. Time waits for no man, ignorance is not an excuse. Another well intentioned thread heading for the bin.

 

[Rodley]

Then don't go into the ground. Which is private property.

Sean Thornton I'm saying more cameras and more audio equipment placed directly in the terraces.

It doesn’t need more cameras or audio equipment, it needs more reporting.

 

[Tony]

A lot of the online racism that's similar to what McGoldrick experienced are just sad trolls that do it because they think it's funny - they know it will get a reaction, and are hidden by a veil of anonymity. No amount of education on racism will ever stop stuff like this happening. If anything, the more attention it gets, the more these sorts of people will do it.

Brilliant summarization.

Unfortunately Tony your terminology belongs in a bygone age much like that that your father or my grandfathers may have used. Time waits for no man, ignorance is not an excuse. Another well intentioned thread heading for the bin.

It's your opinion and therefore must be right. Laawwdd help us. Bet those old fathers, grandfathers and wives could walk anywhere and not worry about being mugged or knived.

 

[Steve Mackan]

Full of admiration for you, re this initiative. Very best of luck with it.

There‘s a lot I’d like to say, in response, all of it supportive. But given the current ban on discussing “politics” here, I’m not at all clear what is and isn’t permitted.

So I’ll respond to the question you ask about the presence of racism inside Bramall Lane on matchdays by giving a personal anecdote, rather than by arguing a position.

For the last 9 years in the South Stand, I’ve sat next to a white bloke in his late 60s / early 70s who keeps up an occasional, irregular, but steady enough stream of low-level racist shit, game after game, season after season, whenever the opportunity arises. He’s affable, friendly, funny, intelligent, warm, knows football, knows music, knows politics ... and he’s racist to the fucking bone.

95% of the time it comes out in ways that some posters on here would not necessarily see as problematic. “You what?”, shouted at the announcement of a non-Anglo sounding, black substitute’s name. “’Ere, would you like some [exaggerated tone] ‘dark chocolate?’—oh, we’re not allowed to say that anymore, are we?”. Visiting team with lots of black players—“EFL? It’s not an English Football League, this”, etc.

There’s been two occasions over the years when I‘ve had a proper go at him. Most of the time, though, I’ve learned to counter it with a quiet, “Steady on”, or a “You can’t say that”, and he seems to respect me enough, or be just about self-aware enough, to shut the fuck up.

But the point of the anecdote isn’t my reaction to him. It’s the reaction of the two black kids who used to sit right in front of us, aged 7 or 8 when they first started coming, usually with a black parent or grandparent.

I still see those two lads on the concourse, and at away games. I don’t see them sat in front of us anymore. Their seats, prime seats with a great view, are now taken by older family members (the boys’ mum and her sister, I think) who will occasionally turn around and give the bloke next to me a stare.

Those two lads, now aged 9 or 10, have moved to seats elsewhere in the stand.

What you've raised here, with the two lads, explains what I want to do with this campaign. My work with KICK IT OUT/FSA has made me realise a few things I had never thought of. One being this: If there is a present, visible anti-racist message circulating among fans, it lets EVERYONE know that the majority of fans are with them. So for those two lads, it may be that seeing a Blades Against Racism logo encourages them to continue watching United despite some racist bloke sat behind. For other people - even in a tiny way - it helps legitimise them when they stand up to someone saying something racist.

We're not trying to change the world. No highfalutin concepts. Just visibility and a message for now.

 

[Steve Mackan]

It doesn’t need more cameras or audio equipment, it needs more reporting.

It certainly needs more reporting. The difficulty with that is: who on earth wants to ruin their matchday experience by reporting summat?

Sad as that fact is, fans behaviours don't change. Lots of us see racism, abhor it, but CBA to do owt about it.