Blades Against Racism

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Presty said:
Maybe I'm missing the point a bit but this isn't just about outing some neo nazi standing up on the kop with his arm out shouting horrible things at black players. I think anyone doing that at Bramall Lane may end up seeing stars.

Just because that doesn't happen anymore doesn't mean there's not still work to do on the subject of racism.

This is about listening, learning and proving a platform for change.
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100%. I don't want to turn this into a BLM conversation. But, the one thing that BLM did for me was forced me to question my assumptions and behaviours. And there are things that I have done/do that have a racial bias. Now that doesn't make me racist. Observing faults in your own arguments and behaviours, and continuing to peddle them - that's being racist. That's what I see going on day after day.
 

Tony said:
Brilliant summarization.
It's your opinion and therefore must be right. Laawwdd help us. Bet those old fathers, grandfathers and wives could walk anywhere and not worry about being mugged or knived.
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I've news for you Tony, knifings and muggings happened in the 30s and 40s. Or did you mean they didn't need to worry about being knifed or mugged by blacks? Sorry, coloureds.
 
Steve Mackan said:
What you've raised here, with the two lads, explains what I want to do with this campaign. My work with KICK IT OUT/FSA has made me realise a few things I had never thought of. One being this: If there is a present, visible anti-racist message circulating among fans, it lets EVERYONE know that the majority of fans are with them. So for those two lads, it may be that seeing a Blades Against Racism logo encourages them to continue watching United despite some racist bloke sat behind. For other people - even in a tiny way - it helps legitimise them when they stand up to someone saying something racist.

We're not trying to change the world. No highfalutin concepts. Just visibility and a message for now.
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Great stuff. Have you spoken to the club about this? In the current climate it’s something they might get right behind?
 
Cheesebored said:
I've news for you Tony, knifings and muggings happened in the 30s and 40s. Or did you mean they didn't need to worry about being knifed or mugged by blacks? Sorry, coloureds.
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Pathetic. Not in the way it is today and they were mainly gang related. Keep your stupid asinine comments to yourself and get on with your homework.
 
Steve Mackan said:
It certainly needs more reporting. The difficulty with that is: who on earth wants to ruin their matchday experience by reporting summat?

Sad as that fact is, fans behaviours don't change. Lots of us see racism, abhor it, but CBA to do owt about it.
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Just do it at the end of the game.
 
Dkc said:
Don't think we have a racism problem at the Lane, but there might be a problem with ageism. People are constantly treated differently because of their age. How about Blades against Ageism?
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Yes we do have a racism problem
 
Steve Mackan. Well done for doing this. I share that level of frustration and weariness of Didzy with his comment of "2020, this!"

I'm not going to debate I'm too invested and angry with it all, but the subtle and insidious racism justification is too much and needs to be challenged. The trivializing and belittling of the issue, whether it's "All lives matter" or "what about ageism" or other trite comparisons. As I said in the Redskins thread, without perspective comment is meaningless. I'm a white, middle-aged man from Yorkshire, I have no personal perspective, but I am married to someone who has and is as weary of all this as Didzy expressed. It exists in society, Sheffield has it and we as a club have it and it needs eliminating.
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
Great stuff. Have you spoken to the club about this? In the current climate it’s something they might get right behind?
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I'm in touch with the club yes. Their man for this sort of work is currently on annual leave. So will be a conversation further down the line.
 
It seems that those who won the brexit vote thought they’d won the right to be bigots too, I’m glad that’s not the case.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Steve Mackan. Well done for doing this. I share that level of frustration and weariness of Didzy with his comment of "2020, this!"

I'm not going to debate I'm too invested and angry with it all, but the subtle and insidious racism justification is too much and needs to be challenged. The trivializing and belittling of the issue, whether it's "All lives matter" or "what about ageism" or other trite comparisons. As I said in the Redskins thread, without perspective comment is meaningless. I'm a white, middle-aged man from Yorkshire, I have no personal perspective, but I am married to someone who has and is as weary of all this as Didzy expressed. It exists in society, Sheffield has it and we as a club have it and it needs eliminating.
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This is what I am referring to as 'everyday racism'. And let's have it right - it's VERY present.
 
Rodley said:
Just do it at the end of the game.
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It's a valid point, but I'm speaking from a POV with some insight. It just doesn't happen. That it should is part of of the behaviour that needs changing. I believe there's an app being developed to make the process easier.
 
ATL Recs said:
Yes we do have a racism problem
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Depends how you define it. I'd say we have less of a racism problem than, say, a hooliganism problem or a mysoginy problem
 

Flatulent_Bob said:
Club could do an app that would alert on this as well. There’s lots that could be done without bugging every seat.
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I think I am right in saying that there is in app in development. The CEO of Kick It Out has been brought in to expedite its creation.
 
Cheesebored said:
I've news for you Tony, knifings and muggings happened in the 30s and 40s. Or did you mean they didn't need to worry about being knifed or mugged by blacks? Sorry, coloureds.
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Pathetic. Not in the way it is today. Keep your stupid asinine comments to yourself and get on with your homework.
Cheesebored said:
Rattled?
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Oh yes. The Thought Police are hot on my trail. Not really just have an aversity to childish comments.
 
Steve Mackan said:
100%. I don't want to turn this into a BLM conversation. But, the one thing that BLM did for me was forced me to question my assumptions and behaviours. And there are things that I have done/do that have a racial bias. Now that doesn't make me racist. Observing faults in your own arguments and behaviours, and continuing to peddle them - that's being racist. That's what I see going on day after day.
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I think BLM has raised awareness hugely and provoked conversation. I’ve not really done a deep dive into their manifesto as I CBA really. I think people find it a little wearing that whenever anything vaguely to do with race is raised, a small people feel compelled chime in about “They don’t like BLM”. It’s all bit reductive. Inevitably it’s been raised again.

No fanbase is perfect but whilst we’re far better than most, that doesn’t mean we can’t move it forward. There’s one or two rotten apples in our fanbase, I’ve seen posts on twitter or elsewhere (“What about PLM?” for example). I’m sure they’ll be weeded out as things progress.
 
Alright Steve Mackan
Interesting day you had yesterday I'm guessing.
I strongly support your approach (I'm paraphrasing) - don't get sucked in to the fine detail & definitions - it's Racism we're against. That's the message. Get a rooftop. Shout.
Anyone who doesn't support Black Lives Matter shirt names, BLM shirt logos, players taking the knee and making the Tommie Smith fist salute is now clearly on a different path to the players & the club. Clearly different. That's OK. Grown Ups can have their own views. But, be in no doubt that you're at odds with, not on the same page as, the players & the club (& some of your fellow fans). I welcome the clear lines being etched out. Good luck Sunshine.
 
Gladly, it's not something i've heard for a very long time where I stand. However, that being said, i'm sure it still happens. I hope that any person, that is able, stands up to the scum that project any form racism, AND that they have full confidence that the stewards, police and the club will back them in any such incident.

Do not be afraid to speak out if you hear it, call the scum out and make them understand how wrong it is.

#EndRacism
 
Steve Mackan said:
I think I am right in saying that there is in app in development. The CEO of Kick It Out has been brought in to expedite its creation.
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Something just come into my head is whether there's anything like or could be something like the Everyday Sexism project but for football. Just a simple site where people can post their experiences anonymously so that we can all be more aware of the type of thing that goes on when no one's paying attention. Would require a lot of modding to approve posts if it takes off but nothing more than volunteers could do.


Just something dead simple like that. Because I'll share one anecdote I have, and that was having a housemate at uni, she was Bangladeshi. We were walking to our house from the bus stop and walked past a group of chavvy little gits when I heard one of the remark "I hate fucking P***s". I went to turn round and she grabbed my arm and kept walking. I genuinely couldn't believe it and her reaction to me was "You get used to it". I think that hurt the most. Nobody should get that kind of abuse, let alone get used to it. I honestly hadn't got a clue that type of thing still happened that casually. But for all the stick the metoo movement and Everyday Sexism project have gotten, they've helped a lot of people understand how pervasive some behaviour can be even if people like myself rarely see it.

And out of interest, do you know if there's much going on in the way of outreach to BAME communities to get an idea of what they want to see? Because it feels like a chicken and egg thing where people won't come if they don't feel welcome, and they won't feel welcome if they don't see others like them in the mix.
 
I disagree with alot in the article but can appreciate your trying to do something good.

You ask what could be done without alienating some fans but make supporting BLM as an organisation mandatory. That will alienate alot already.
 
Great article and great work Steve Mackan . I can't pretend to have the answers about what is to be done, but agree wholeheartedly that we need to engage in the process of doing something.

As a starting point, I think it's crucial to accept that we all have subconscious biases. As an example I think most of us (myself included) are highly likely to give a Blade the benefit of the doubt on a questionable social media post that if posted by a pig we'd undoubtedly class as racist. Even on matters that are clear cut, we're far more likely to think that a racist social media post/comment/chant by a Blade is from a unrepresentative, tiny minority but we'd view it as part of a wider problem if it came from a Leeds or Chelsea fan.

I think it's also important for us to remember that we don't live in a world of absolutes - things aren't mutually exclusive; just because we have subconscious biases (and that the majority of us on here will have grown up with the experience of being white males) doesn't make us evil, but does mean we should question the biases we have and make an effort to listen to and learn from the experiences of BAME Blades.
Just because the situation currently is demonstrably better than it was in the 70's doesn't mean there isn't still an issue.
Just because the situation may be worse amongst other fan bases doesn't negate our responsibility to sort ourselves out.

Questions in relation to this that I have genuinely no idea about, but would be interested to read views and opinions:
  • How can we ensure that racist views are genuinely challenged and diminished rather than just pushed under the surface?
  • How can we have an impact in relation to our club when it's clear that the issues are a problem in society as a whole?
  • Can or should an anti-racism campaign be 'apolitical'? I strongly believe that many of the recent incidents have their roots (directly or indirectly) in the current political climate, but I'm equally aware that my political views (Marxist, to the left of Corbyn) wouldn't be shared by a significant majority of Blades and there is no reason why they should be.
 
Steve Mackan said:
... do you think racism is present in stadia?
... do you think racism is present online?
.. what can be done among the grassroots to make racists feel uncomfortable?
... how does the club fulfil its promise of 'something has to change' without alienating some fans?
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1 - Yes, though Bramall Lane doesn't too bad on this score in my experience.
2 - Yes.
3 - If you encounter someone being a racist, tell them that they're being a racist and that they should stop.
4 - I think it does alright now.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Alright Steve Mackan
Interesting day you had yesterday I'm guessing.
I strongly support your approach (I'm paraphrasing) - don't get sucked in to the fine detail & definitions - it's Racism we're against. That's the message. Get a rooftop. Shout.
Anyone who doesn't support Black Lives Matter shirt names, BLM shirt logos, players taking the knee and making the Tommie Smith fist salute is now clearly on a different path to the players & the club. Clearly different. That's OK. Grown Ups can have their own views. But, be in no doubt that you're at odds with, not on the same page as, the players & the club (& some of your fellow fans). I welcome the clear lines being etched out. Good luck Sunshine.
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Very well put, particularly this part. And thanks for doing this Steve Mackan
 
Excellent initiative and I will be supporting (as with recent Rainbow Blades). If anyone thinks these are a good idea then why not sign up?

This thread and many others highlight both different and shifting opinions, it gets tetchy at times. I think this is mainly a good thing, exchanging and challenging opinions both stops people feeling silenced and encourages debate. The Lane and this forum seems dominated by older, white, straight blokes, and boy does it show sometimes. However, folk are getting called out and often giving reasoned responses, this is how opinions change... slowly.

I would hope all on here abhor the Didzy abuse. The BLM movement has clearly polarised opinion, but where the issues it raises were dismissed as 'loony left' when I was younger (e.g. institutional racism) many now seem to agree, or at least are prepared to listen and have an open mind. We have shifted to a more liberal and multicultural society (yes, even the Tories), and although some disagree with this, I feel fellow Blades should be proud to listen, sometimes feel uncomfortable, and then be allowed to (rationally and civilly) disagree.

So, my point (well you did ask:). Like some others on here I disagree with the article that using terms like black as a descriptor is necessarily negative (it clearly can be, but depends on use and context). A while ago I was out with some Cardiff lads (Soul Crew, don't ask) and one guy was telling a story about a mate. He was trying to explain which one from the nearby crowd it was and went round the houses before another one said "you mean the black lad?" It was indeed him, and the story continued, no problem. His mates, and the black lad in question when told, took the piss for avoiding the obvious way he could be distinguished (cos them Welsh all look the same to me ;-). Similarly in a team of white players if I am pointing out a new signing or whatever I may say "the black lad", similarly I may say "the white lad" if the group are black.

I think the fear of using descriptive words like this is understandable but counterproductive. It engenders myths like 'you can't even say blackboard anymore' that I saw on this very forum yesterday. The myths about 'blackboard' or 'black coffee' or 'baa, baa black sheep' are not helpful. There is a genuine point that 'black sheep', like 'black magic' or 'blackballed', have negative connotations and this is a product of our history and ideology. But, let's feel free to talk about it and not belittle anyone who has a different opinion (although overtly racist trolls can do one, it is not the same thing). If you think 'well that is just stupid' then you don't know much about language, you should do some reading.

I agree with our recent Leicester fan that there is often unconscious racism on here (although I don't call it out as he did, as I think there is time and place to pick battles, but if this thread is not it, I don't know where is!). He pointed out that rather than attacking Garth Crooks for just being a know nowt there had been a racial inference - he was correct and was rounded on by quite a few. I have seen many references to Crooks, and others, linked to 'quotas' and the like. This is to me covert racism.

With Blades I gave been quite lucky not to hear much racism over the years (my old Kop mates are lefty types so this might help). Worse I recall was some drunken scrotes singing Islamophobic chants at Oldham away. I was with my family and did not challenge them, it would probably have ended in aggressive confrontation and I felt it was not the time. A bloke behind me on the SS a few years ago made the odd 'ooga booga' noise at black (opposition) players, I did have a quiet word and it stopped, no drama.

I also dislike the supposedly complimentary chants we have had about the 'manhood' of black players. It feeds into old stereotypes. This, to me, is covert racism.

The jokes thread on here uses several racial stereotypes (although I found 'Tonto Papadopoulos' hilarious). The most common is the 'Paddy' trope. Several of my Irish family do not like this sort of stuff (some don't care and use it themselves), they think it is covert racism.

So these are the less obvious points I wanted to make about race. For years one of the things that has made me proud to be a Blade is that I can say I think we aren't bad with racism (I'm not saying it does not exist), certainly compared with some Leeds, Wednesday and Rotherham fans I have known.

This place, for a footy forum, is generally quite balanced and forward thinking about racism. We are getting there with sexuality. Sexism has come a long way, but if you call for or appreciate 'tits' on long threads, post sexualised images out of any context (including avatars) I think it is equivalent to page 3 of The Sun, a throwback to less enlightened times. If you like this stuff, fair enough, but there is this place called the internet where you can fill your boots. When my daughters browse this forum they can take it, but they think it is pretty pathetic and it does put them off as it seems so removed from the world they inhabit. Similarly the 'quota' stuff about women is often tiresome.

However, I do not want to distract from the OP and the focus on racism. You asked for some thoughts! Well done again to OP.
 

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