CONFIRMED Ben Davies signs on loan

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Nah den said:
Totally agree. Also not sure where this 'lack of pace' idea comes from. He's not road runner quick but comfortably quick enough for the position he plays. He often gets across on the cover very effectively.
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I wouldn't say he's turtle pace slow, but he definitely has a slow turning birth. The number of yellows he received (and occasional red) over last 2 seasons give proof to that. They were normally all for getting turned by a striker and being left in the dead and having to give away a professional foul.
 

Isaw Joeshaw said:
The counter argument to this mantra which you have been churning out for months is that when Egan has been found wanting , it has been precisely because he was in a back 3 rather than a 4 .

These have almost always been when an attack has broken down and the wingbacks have been in advanced positions , forcing the other CB’s to go wide to cover possible attacks down the wing .

In such situations , the lone centre back is left vulnerable to to a long ball down the middle when he has to instantly decide whether to go and attack it or stand off and hope for more defensive cover to arrive .

In a well organised back four , that scenario doesn’t arise since one of the twin centre backs is always available as cover if the other one fails to break down the attack .

A classic example of that would be the partnership between Colquhoun and Flynn in which the former would go forward looking to attack the long ball , knowing that if he failed to do so , his mate would there waiting to pick up the pieces .

In describing John Egan as someone who should be ok at Championship level I think you do him a great injustice. In our first year in the PL he showed himself to be comfortably to be in the top dozen in his position imo and even last year , in the crazy formation that lead to none stop pressure on our defence , he came out with his head held high .

Finally , you keep pointing out that his ability to carry the ball out of defence is not the greatest and there is some truth in that . Have you considered that were that not to be the case , he would almost certainly be playing for one of the top six clubs and not for us and with a value way in excess of anything we could afford ?
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very good post on egan and i agree with you playing 3 at the back with his 2 partners pushing up have often left egan exposed especially against top quality strikers in the premier league when you play a back 4 the 2 centre halves get much closer together and can cover for each other certainly looking like slav will go 3 at the back to start with but if it isnt working i dont think he will be slow to change it to a back 4 probably even during games if things are not going well but make no mistake egan will be one of the best centre backs in the championship
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
The counter argument to this mantra which you have been churning out for months is that when Egan has been found wanting , it has been precisely because he was in a back 3 rather than a 4 .

These have almost always been when an attack has broken down and the wingbacks have been in advanced positions , forcing the other CB’s to go wide to cover possible attacks down the wing .

In such situations , the lone centre back is left vulnerable to to a long ball down the middle when he has to instantly decide whether to go and attack it or stand off and hope for more defensive cover to arrive .

In a well organised back four , that scenario doesn’t arise since one of the twin centre backs is always available as cover if the other one fails to break down the attack .

A classic example of that would be the partnership between Colquhoun and Flynn in which the former would go forward looking to attack the long ball , knowing that if he failed to do so , his mate would there waiting to pick up the pieces .

In describing John Egan as someone who should be ok at Championship level I think you do him a great injustice. In our first year in the PL he showed himself to be comfortably to be in the top dozen in his position imo and even last year , in the crazy formation that lead to none stop pressure on our defence , he came out with his head held high .

Finally , you keep pointing out that his ability to carry the ball out of defence is not the greatest and there is some truth in that . Have you considered that were that not to be the case , he would almost certainly be playing for one of the top six clubs and not for us and with a value way in excess of anything we could afford ?
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Some excellent points which give food for thought. I absolutely have thought about his ability to carry the ball out, which is why when folk were talking about £20M bids from Everton I wasn’t concerned. In my view JoC was the one we couldn’t afford to lose everyone else was replaceable.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Some excellent points which give food for thought. I absolutely have thought about his ability to carry the ball out, which is why when folk were talking about £20M bids from Everton I wasn’t concerned. In my view JoC was the one we couldn’t afford to lose everyone else was replaceable.
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i can see the logic behind 3 centre backs in away games but if were not going to overload with our right and left sided centre backs dont see the point of playing that system in home games i would sooner us have an extra man further up the pitch in an attacking role be interesting to see which system slav uses
 
jono_t2000 said:
I wouldn't say he's turtle pace slow, but he definitely has a slow turning birth. The number of yellows he received (and occasional red) over last 2 seasons give proof to that. They were normally all for getting turned by a striker and being left in the dead and having to give away a professional foul.
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Those yellows and occasional red were in the best league in the world against some of the best attackers in the world.

He won't be playing against.players like that in the championship.

Egan is just about the least of.my worries for the season ahead whether he plays in a back 3 or back 4 !!!
 
Jeez some posters re Egan and reverting to a Back 4.

I’ll say it now and don’t mind being quoted further down the line but a back 4 of Stevens/RND, Davies, Egan and Baldock would be the best back 4 in the championship by some distance.

Would also allow a switch to 4231 with Berge and Norwood in a double pivot if Berge doesn’t leave.
 
He’s returned because his partner is ill. Apparently looking for a move to the Bundesliga
 
Upton_Blade said:
Jeez some posters re Egan and reverting to a Back 4.

I’ll say it now and don’t mind being quoted further down the line but a back 4 of Stevens/RND, Davies, Egan and Baldock would be the best back 4 in the championship by some distance.

Would also allow a switch to 4231 with Berge and Norwood in a double pivot if Berge doesn’t leave.
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totally agree with you upton weve got some posters on here trembling at the thought of playing a back 4 and were playing at a lower level for gods sake egan and davies could well turn out to be the best centre back pairing in the league add to that that baldock is a far better right back than wing back meaning we could play bogle in front of him in the midfield 3 and maybe burke as the right sided striker in a front 3 what a right flank that would be at championship level
 
ancientblade said:
totally agree with you upton weve got some posters on here trembling at the thought of playing a back 4 and were playing at a lower level for gods sake egan and davies could well turn out to be the best centre back pairing in the league
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Who’s arguing against that?
Davies makes a huge difference though and they would be strong at this level but my comments about Egan have consistently said in the league above, against the better players.
Still believe that a back four even at this level means Bash is done.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Who’s arguing against that?
Davies makes a huge difference though and they would be strong at this level but my comments about Egan have consistently said in the league above, against the better players.
Still believe that a back four even at this level means Bash is done.
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look at post 292 bob you say slav cant risk playing egan in a back 4 and thats this season in the championship isnt it and under this manager maybe basham is done new managers come in to clubs and gradually over time create their own teams i still dont think its nailed on that we will play 3 at the back
 
ancientblade said:
look at post 292 bob you say slav cant risk playing egan in a back 4 and thats this season in the championship isnt it and under this manager maybe basham is done new managers come in to clubs and gradually over time create their own teams i still dont think its nailed on that we will play 3 at the back
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It really doesn’t say that at all. It says Egan doesn’t fit in with how Slav played his centre halves previously when deploying at back 4 because of his distribution. It also acknowledges that from my view it looked like it’s someone he’s been working on.
Davies would change this as I’m assuming he’d be the one stepping out but it’s something Egan needs to keep working on.
It’s probably a nothing comparison because I don’t think we have the personal to rebuild Fulham or Watford so he’s going to have to tweak his tactics but he generally likes ball players and to play a high line.

For final clarity I’m not saying it won’t work this season, against most of our opposing sides it will be fine but going up with it would be a concern. Without someone like Davies I think it’s a big issue if we try to play it with Bash and Egan.

Flatulent_Bob said:
Egan has shown himself to be vulnerable to long balls a few times, and he isn’t the quickest. I thought he looked towards the end of the season like he’d be working on his distribution, brining the ball out, which was another short coming for him at the higher level.
For Slav to play his 4 at the back, Egan doesn’t fit what we’ve seen him use before. Keeping the 3 means we have to make less chances throughout the entire side and means we stay inline with all the youth sides and development players and also means we don’t have to replace Bash until the end of the season.
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Flatulent_Bob said:
It really doesn’t say that at all. It says Egan doesn’t fit in with how Slav played his centre halves previously when deploying at back 4 because of his distribution. It also acknowledges that from my view it looked like it’s someone he’s been working on.
Davies would change this as I’m assuming he’d be the one stepping out but it’s something Egan needs to keep working on.
It’s probably a nothing comparison because I don’t think we have the personal to rebuild Fulham or Watford so he’s going to have to tweak his tactics but he generally likes ball players and to play a high line.

For final clarity I’m not saying it won’t work this season, against most of our opposing sides it will be fine but going up with it would be a concern. Without someone like Davies I think it’s a big issue if we try to play it with Bash and Egan.
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if we do go up after this season very much doubt basham will be playing premier league football again at his age just think playing a back 4 would give us more options further up the pitch and theres no doubt baldock is a better right back than wing back you may well be right that slav may have to adjust his preferred tactics if were going with the majority of players weve already got here but hopefully we will get 3 or 4 new faces in to give him more options on selections and tactics utb fto
 


mancunianblade said:
Do you think he’s not good enough for the bundesliga? Im sure he would be comfortable in a bottom half team.
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I don't disagree mate but the bottom half of the bundesliga is probably the same standard as the top half of the championship so I'm not really sure why anyone would want to uproot to make that move.
 
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