beattie

[Torrix1889]

What's the point in arguing, he aint coming anyway!

 

[Mendi]

What's the point in arguing, he aint coming anyway!

he is begin considering by wilson who said it on skyports news today if he proves his fitness he may join us.

 

[Torrix1889]

he is begin considering by wilson who said it on skyports news today if he proves his fitness he may join us.

In English......

 

[JohnDenver]

In English......

Wilson has just been on SSN saying we've spoken to him, but he's unfit and a deal isn't close at all.

 

[Houso]

Wilson has just been on SSN saying we've spoken to him, but he's unfit and a deal isn't close at all.

Closer than I thought it would be if we're even talking to him.

Colour me a light purple shade of excited.

 

[raul]

Hotto , I received a text saying "signing this week - FACT". No names no pack drill but it's credible.

 

[Ollessendro]

So 26 of his goals, over one and a half seasons were not pens. Show me another player with that kind of record in the last 20 years

Nathan Blake: 2 seasons, 59 starts (and 15 sub appearances) and 35 goals.
Jan Aage Fjortoft: season and a half, 37 games (6 sub apperences) and 23 goals.
Marcus Bent: Season and a half, 56 games and 24 goals

So 08-09record with Beattie playing (including sub game) was P23 W9 D8 L6 pts 35
and without him: P23 W13 D6 L4 pts 45

Thanks Darren.

We had a better record without BT in the team. I rest my case.

 

[Houso]

Hotto , I received a text saying "signing this week - FACT". No names no pack drill but it's credible.

Cheers Uncy.

I'm off down bookies to put my mortgage on it.

xx

 

[stannyblade]

Lets not hang about if we are considering it. We waited on Duke and where did that leave us.

 

[Torrix1889]

Wilson has just been on SSN saying we've spoken to him, but he's unfit and a deal isn't close at all.

HMS was a rounder shape of fat and look what he did........gerrim signed

 

[SwissBlade]

Thanks Darren.

We had a better record without BT in the team. I rest my case.

To be fair Ollie, Dazza's stats don't show how many of the games were under Robbo and when we were shite and then with Blackwell when we stormed up the league

 

[Ollessendro]

To be fair Ollie, Dazza's stats don't show how many of the games were under Robbo and when we were shite and then with Blackwell when we stormed up the league

Darren's stats are from the season we finished 3rd Swiss. Blackwell was in charge the whole season. Hence, from the aspect of management, it was a lvel playing field. And the fact is that we won more games without him in the side that season.

 

[SwissBlade]

Darren's stats are from the season we finished 3rd Swiss. Blackwell was in charge the whole season. Hence, from the aspect of management, it was a lvel playing field. And the fact is that we won more games without him in the side that season.

As you were then

I actually don't think he's the right player right now, I think we need players for this season and beyond, but I wouldn't grumble if we did sign him, after last season I'm not sure how much longer he has before he's finished.

He would piss this league though

I doubt we can afford him now

 

[alcoblade]

I am surprised that someone who has a good knowledge of the game and is usually spot on actually thinks this way. How do you explain our sudden surge of form after Beattie left?

Ah, my pet topic.

This is a great example of "if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes a fact". Here is what happened:

1. Beattie left, and United won the first few games thereafter. Not surprising, really, as they played Norwich (relegated) Charlton (relegated) and Watford (lower mid table), so it wasn't very difficult.

2. United then went on a bad run, losing at home to the Pigs and Doncaster and drawing at Preston. they fell out of the playoff places.

3. Blackwell then did two things that caused the team to revive:

(a) he restored Cotterill to the team. United did not lose again with him in the side until the playoff final.

(b) he dropped Billy Sharp and his 16 match non scoring run (and how Beattie gets all the flack with him in the side is beyond me) replacing him with a cast of thousands including Webber, S*** b****** Beattie and Jamie Ward. All of these people get the odd goal.

4. In addtion, the defence continued to improve as a unit, achieving our best defensive record since the sixties.

Our record with and without Beattie was about level. However, given the other changes KB made, I am firmly of the view that had he not been sold, United would have gone up with Cotterill on the wing and without that Deadweight sharp. We certainly missed him in the last few games (no striker scored in the last 8 games).

All of this is obvious from watching those games and, 3 years on, looking at the stats.

As for 20 goals getting us nowhere, if he hadn't have done that in 2007-8 United would have been in the relegation places when Robson was fired.

" "if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes a fact". "

But you've argued against a subjective line using aother subjective line. The fact remains that we were more successful after he left that season. Whilst I appreciate that stats can say many things, it seems to me that given this fact the daftest repeated myth is that we would definitely have been promoted had we kept him.

UTB

 

[raul]

How about:

Was James Beattie a bloody good striker? Yes
Did we improve after he left and we had to change our style? Yes

Sometimes, it can be both rather than an either/or.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'm not too worried about Beattie's ability in this league. With the improvements Collins, Doyle and Cresswell have shown after dropping down a level I am sure Beattie, if fit, would score plenty of goals and help us do well. But I see him as a short term success only, and I fear that another burden on our wage bill will mean it won't be long before we'll be forced to accept more bids for our younger players.

 

[judge]

How about:

Was James Beattie a bloody good striker? Yes
Did we improve after he left and we had to change our style? Yes

Sometimes, it can be both rather than an either/or.

..........and they all lived happily ever after

 

[alcoblade]

Very true we got rid of 2 wages last week pay him what boggy was on and we are still in pocket plus we will have a better striker.

What about paying the money to another striker who has pace and will complement what we have already, not displace it?.

For me, one of the benefits of relegation was an end to us being a haven for washed up stars seeking their last pay check. Give me youth / something to prove any day.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

What about paying the money to another striker who has pace and will complement what we have already, not displace it?.

For me, one of the benefits of relegation was an end to us being a haven for washed up stars seeking their last pay check. Give me youth / something to prove any day.

UTB

I'll go with that, but it seems many were happy to see us cash in on slew and spend the cash on bt.

 

[Pinchy]

On the subject of myths, how about 'We should never have sold Cotts' aka The Invisible Man, last seen warming up at Wembley. Now believed to be making a living sitting on benches.

 

[alcoblade]

On the subject of myths, how about 'We should never have sold Cotts' aka The Invisible Man, last seen warming up at Wembley. Now believed to be making a living sitting on benches.

Let it go.......

 

[SotonBlade]

Ok so. The argument seems to be that he's old and fat and would be on massive wages. So. If he got fit and was willing to fit in the wage structure, would you sign him?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Ok so. The argument seems to be that he's old and fat and would be on massive wages. So. If he got fit and was willing to fit in the wage structure, would you sign him?

Possibly lacking hunger is the other bit of the equation.

 

[stannyblade]

Ok so. The argument seems to be that he's old and fat and would be on massive wages. So. If he got fit and was willing to fit in the wage structure, would you sign him?

Without a doubt I would sign him provided he fits the wage structure. A fit James Beattie would rip this league to shreads.

 

[WhiteHawk]

Ok so. The argument seems to be that he's old and fat and would be on massive wages. So. If he got fit and was willing to fit in the wage structure, would you sign him?

Absolutely I would. A fit James Beattie should score for fun in this division.

 

[alcoblade]

Ok so. The argument seems to be that he's old and fat and would be on massive wages. So. If he got fit and was willing to fit in the wage structure, would you sign him?

Not for me, because realistically he will still be earning the type of money that would prevent us from signing the pacey striker that would complement what we already have.

UTB

 

[Mendi]

i reckon he will come, but on the terms off sheff utd.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Beattie got 34 goals for us. On my calculation 8 of them were pens. He scored a few free kicks, but it's completely untrue to say that "most" of his goals were pens or free kicks (anyway, why is the ability to take a good free kick something to be denigrated?).

Woah, shock horror. Olle's fingers writing cheques his butt can't cash

 

[Pinchy]

Let it go.......

Uncomfortable truths?

 

[Revolution]

But you've argued against a subjective line using aother subjective line. The fact remains that we were more successful after he left that season. Whilst I appreciate that stats can say many things, it seems to me that given this fact the daftest repeated myth is that we would definitely have been promoted had we kept him.

I don't think that's entirely fair. I said I was of the view that we would have gone up had we kept him. That's my opinion, it's not a fact, and we will never know.

The point I am trying to make is that there were likely other reasons why we improved, which were apparent at the time and are apparent now when you look at the stats. I simply do not accept that removing our best player from the side and replacing him with forwards who don't score much is the sole reason for our upturn in form. The chickens certainly came home to roost in the last 8 games, where United could not get goals from a forward.

And anyone who says Cotterill's good form was not a factor in our improvement in the second half of that season is in my opinion guilty of Nelsonian blindness, although I of course accept that crossing the ball usually involves it travelling through the air rather than along the deck, which makes Pinchy cry.