beattie

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A fit and functioning BT would lift the place, inspire the kids, send a positive message about the Blades to the rest of the division and put the fear of shit in our limited gene pool S6 chums

Key issues will be fitness and confidence (yes even BT will need his confidence boosted) - and that is maybe a reason for him choosing the Blades vs other options - recreating the last position where he felt good about his football and valued as a player.

It's then up to DW to sort out the balance.
 

I think it would be a good thing, as long as the wages are in keeping, Cressy won't do a full season at his age, he will pick up an injury. He is scoring but you watch him after 45mins making a lot of runs and he's getting tired. I still think Beattie was the most deadly striker we've had since Deano, he rarely missed, even when the supply dried up, plus his experience can only help the young lads we are bringing through
 
wage wise he will have had a pay off from rangers so may play for alot less.
 
I'd actually prefer Ched to have his head in the right place (or his case to be suddenly dropped assuming he's done nowt wrong), but there's little chance of that happening sadly.

You know, I once said on this board that there could be little debate that Lee Baxter was the worst United player in the last 20 years, and that remains so on actual in game performance, but if you factor in all of his other baggage - his terrible form, his frequent injuries, his crippling wages and his absence for non footballing reasons - Evans has arguably "caused more damage" than any other signing we have made in the same timespan.
 
I'd actually prefer Ched to have his head in the right place (or his case to be suddenly dropped assuming he's done nowt wrong), but there's little chance of that happening sadly.

You know, I once said on this board that there could be little debate that Lee Baxter was the worst United player in the last 20 years, and that remains so on actual in game performance, but if you factor in all of his other baggage - his terrible form, his frequent injuries, his crippling wages and his absence for non footballing reasons - Evans has arguably "caused more damage" than any other signing we have made in the same timespan.

Agreed, his signing has been an unmitigated disaster, on a par with John Ebbrell, probably worse because so many of the issues with Ched have been self inflicted. I view his eventual departure as being the final break with all the horrible shit we have been putting up with for the last few years.
 
I can't see Ched playing for again somehow, if he is guilty he'll be dropped like a stone, if not guilty he'll be off loaded to some other mugs
 
I'd actually prefer Ched to have his head in the right place (or his case to be suddenly dropped assuming he's done nowt wrong), but there's little chance of that happening sadly.

You know, I once said on this board that there could be little debate that Lee Baxter was the worst United player in the last 20 years, and that remains so on actual in game performance, but if you factor in all of his other baggage - his terrible form, his frequent injuries, his crippling wages and his absence for non footballing reasons - Evans has arguably "caused more damage" than any other signing we have made in the same timespan.

He was last season's leading scorer :-)
 
Agreed, his signing has been an unmitigated disaster, on a par with John Ebbrell, probably worse because so many of the issues with Ched have been self inflicted.

I think (though I stand to be corrected) that United got insurance payouts after Ebbrell's injury, which would have minimised his impact. Nothing like that here.

He was last season's leading scorer :-)

Yes, but in the context of that team that's like being the tallest dwarf in Snow White....
 
[I think (though I stand to be corrected) that United got insurance payouts after Ebbrell's injury, which would have minimised his impact. Nothing like that here.

I seem to recall that his injury was a pre existing condition, which scuppered any insurance payout.
 
Having him back on maybe a pay as you play deal might be worth offering all things considered. One thing is for sure we don't want him tied down on some silly 3 year deal even if it isn't on massive wages.

Id welcome his return because really it is just a matter of time before Cresswell and Porter start picking up an injury plus he has that extra bit of quality the rest of the strike force lacks.
 
I struggle to understand why people dont want Beattie back.

Single handedly kept Stoke up which ultimately cost him his starting position as that then let them go an sign better players.

Blackpool are shit. He signed when they couldn't buy a goal.

Rangers rarely played him and he wasnt fit when he signed which put him back a bit.

Beattie is THE best striker of recent times. If DW signs him, he'll know when and where to play him.
 
I struggle to understand why people dont want Beattie back.

Whilst I am certainly a Beattie fan, there are defenisible reasons not to sign him. His injury record over the last 2 seasons is not good, and he would not come cheap.

We could use another forward, though, as Evans is clearly not going to play and Porter is a big injury risk.
 
........

Tangentally, it never ceases to amaze me how much people dislike the only 20 goal a season striker we have had in a generation. Not leading the line properly?

In his only full season Beattie scored 22 goals, partnering Danny "ever present" Webber, Billy Sharp (rubbish in a United shirt), Luton Shelton and Rob "20 games, no goals" Hulse. Clearly, he let a team of f****** world beaters down by not leading the line properly.

I am surprised that someone who has a good knowledge of the game and is usually spot on actually thinks this way. How do you explain our sudden surge of form after Beattie left? The guy was surplus and not a team player. I would be interested to see the wins ratio for that season with him in and out of the team. That full season we had a very good team (excellent back 4 and creativity in mid) yet his 20 goals got us nowhere. Whilst I have to give some credit for getting a goal every other game, they mostly came from pens and free kicks. I think he was detrimental to the team when he played.

Shipperly, Blake, Fjortoft and Hulse (pre injury) are all better strikers that have been at the Lane since Deane left in 93.

Why not have both Ollie?

We cannot afford it. Any talk of BT is all hypoethetical, as there is no chance we can afford him.

He made just 16 appearances last season, without scoring a goal. He might score for fun in League 1, but he might not. Goalscoring doesn't seem to be a problem for us this season, and they are coming from all over the team. I think there are higher priorities than taking what I think would be a big gamble.

No further questions your honour.
 

I am surprised that someone who has a good knowledge of the game and is usually spot on actually thinks this way. How do you explain our sudden surge of form after Beattie left? The guy was surplus and not a team player. I would be interested to see the wins ratio for that season with him in and out of the team. That full season we had a very good team (excellent back 4 and creativity in mid) yet his 20 goals got us nowhere. Whilst I have to give some credit for getting a goal every other game, they mostly came from pens and free kicks. I think he was detrimental to the team when he played.

Shipperly, Blake, Fjortoft and Hulse (pre injury) are all better strikers that have been at the Lane since Deane left in 93.



We cannot afford it. Any talk of BT is all hypoethetical, as there is no chance we can afford him.



No further questions your honour.

Beattie got 34 goals for us. On my calculation 8 of them were pens. He scored a few free kicks, but it's completely untrue to say that "most" of his goals were pens or free kicks (anyway, why is the ability to take a good free kick something to be denigrated?).
 
I'd put forward the argument that he would get plenty of chances from free kicks around the box, as centre halves at his level would clatter him at every opportunity.
 
Of the Penalties and free kicks he scored how many were a result of him being fouled?

I would have Beattie in my side ahead of both current strikers every day of the week.

The wage side of it would depend if he actually wants to come or not. Look at Bellamy last season Cardiff paid him what they could afford to pay him as it was his dream to play for them. Beattie is supposed to love us and still wore his united shin pads while at stoke
 
Beattie got 34 goals for us. On my calculation 8 of them were pens. He scored a few free kicks, but it's completely untrue to say that "most" of his goals were pens or free kicks (anyway, why is the ability to take a good free kick something to be denigrated?).

Absolutely Darren - we have had a dearth of good free kick takers since BT left.
Can change a game in an instant if you have that ability (equaliser vs Pigs as an example).

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

We cannot afford it. Any talk of BT is all hypoethetical, as there is no chance we can afford him.

Wasn't aware you were responsible for the budget at BDTBL Ollie? Fair play son.
 
Of the Penalties and free kicks he scored how many were a result of him being fouled?

I would have Beattie in my side ahead of both current strikers every day of the week.

The wage side of it would depend if he actually wants to come or not. Look at Bellamy last season Cardiff paid him what they could afford to pay him as it was his dream to play for them. Beattie is supposed to love us and still wore his united shin pads while at stoke

Very true we got rid of 2 wages last week pay him what boggy was on and we are still in pocket plus we will have a better striker.
 
Beattie got 34 goals for us. On my calculation 8 of them were pens. He scored a few free kicks, but it's completely untrue to say that "most" of his goals were pens or free kicks (anyway, why is the ability to take a good free kick something to be denigrated?).

Exactly.

The ability to take a penalty is a skill and if you look at Blackburn's new striker who had a couple of penalties I think the other week and didn't manage to put away any it shows it takes quality to score them.

At this level a fit James Beattie would no doubt score for fun.

Fingers crossed we somehow land him but Id guess at worst he will end up back in the Championship.
 
I am surprised that someone who has a good knowledge of the game and is usually spot on actually thinks this way. How do you explain our sudden surge of form after Beattie left?

Ah, my pet topic.

This is a great example of "if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes a fact". Here is what happened:

1. Beattie left, and United won the first few games thereafter. Not surprising, really, as they played Norwich (relegated) Charlton (relegated) and Watford (lower mid table), so it wasn't very difficult.

2. United then went on a bad run, losing at home to the Pigs and Doncaster and drawing at Preston. they fell out of the playoff places.

3. Blackwell then did two things that caused the team to revive:

(a) he restored Cotterill to the team. United did not lose again with him in the side until the playoff final.

(b) he dropped Billy Sharp and his 16 match non scoring run (and how Beattie gets all the flack with him in the side is beyond me) replacing him with a cast of thousands including Webber, S*** b****** Beattie and Jamie Ward. All of these people get the odd goal.

4. In addtion, the defence continued to improve as a unit, achieving our best defensive record since the sixties.

Our record with and without Beattie was about level. However, given the other changes KB made, I am firmly of the view that had he not been sold, United would have gone up with Cotterill on the wing and without that Deadweight sharp. We certainly missed him in the last few games (no striker scored in the last 8 games).

All of this is obvious from watching those games and, 3 years on, looking at the stats.

As for 20 goals getting us nowhere, if he hadn't have done that in 2007-8 United would have been in the relegation places when Robson was fired.
 
I am surprised that someone who has a good knowledge of the game and is usually spot on actually thinks this way. How do you explain our sudden surge of form after Beattie left?

Ah, my pet topic.

This is a great example of "if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes a fact". Here is what happened:

1. Beattie left, and United won the first few games thereafter. Not surprising, really, as they played Norwich (relegated) Charlton (relegated) and Watford (lower mid table), so it wasn't very difficult.

2. United then went on a bad run, losing at home to the Pigs and Doncaster and drawing at Preston. they fell out of the playoff places.

3. Blackwell then did two things that caused the team to revive:

(a) he restored Cotterill to the team. United did not lose again with him in the side until the playoff final.

(b) he dropped Billy Sharp and his 16 match non scoring run (and how Beattie gets all the flack with him in the side is beyond me) replacing him with a cast of thousands including Webber, S*** b****** Beattie and Jamie Ward. All of these people get the odd goal.

4. In addtion, the defence continued to improve as a unit, achieving our best defensive record since the sixties.

Our record with and without Beattie was about level. However, given the other changes KB made, I am firmly of the view that had he not been sold, United would have gone up with Cotterill on the wing and without that Deadweight sharp. We certainly missed him in the last few games (no striker scored in the last 8 games).

All of this is obvious from watching those games and, 3 years on, looking at the stats.

As for 20 goals getting us nowhere, if he hadn't have done that in 2007-8 United would have been in the relegation places when Robson was fired.

A pet thing of mine is why people put **** when they mean swear words. I am struggling to work out whether you are referring to another player when you type S******** b******* or just giving Beattie II a couple uncomplimentary adjectives. We are all grown ups now. Can we just type what we mean.

Also, you missed out the win at Southampton between the Preston draw and the SWFC defeat when referring to that bad run.
 
A pet thing of mine is why people put **** when they mean swear words. I am struggling to work out whether you are referring to another player when you type S******** b******* or just giving Beattie II a couple uncomplimentary adjectives. We are all grown ups now. Can we just type what we mean.

I do not type swearwords in posts (or emails). Never have, and never will. I was just paying homage to raul's nickname for him, which the lesser Beattie fully deserved.

Also, you missed out the win at Southampton between the Preston draw and the SWFC defeat when referring to that bad run.

Ah yes, the third relegated side....
 
A pet thing of mine is why people put **** when they mean swear words. I am struggling to work out whether you are referring to another player when you type S******** b******* or just giving Beattie II a couple uncomplimentary adjectives. We are all grown ups now. Can we just type what we mean.

I do not type swearwords in posts (or emails). Never have, and never will. I was just paying homage to raul's nickname for him, which the lesser Beattie fully deserved.

Also, you missed out the win at Southampton between the Preston draw and the SWFC defeat when referring to that bad run.

Ah yes, the third relegated side....

But that's the problem you see, people don't know what you mean. I assume the "b****" is "bastard", but I am struglling with the "S********" Is it "Scottish"? But that's not a swear word???

On the general point, I just think refusing to type the full word just enhances their (rather childish) taboo status. They lose their magic if you just treat them like other words.
 
Whatever, Darren. If that's all that interested you about what I wrote, there's nothing more for me to add.
 
I still see comments about James Beattie portraying him as some sort of billy big bollocks who swanned around Bramall Lane like he owned the place.

I knew a man who is sadly no longer with us. Whist Beattie was at SUFC he was fighting cancer. James Beattie arranged, and paid for, a box on John Street for one particular game. He took the time out to pop in pre game to meet everybody, paid for a meal and all their booze and enjoyed a drink post game with them. He wasnt asked to do this. He did it for no reason other than he wanted to.

The facts are that he is a gentleman and was very popular in the dressing room. Far from being feared and insighting jealousy he was a model senior pro who a lot looked up to.
 
Whatever, Darren. If that's all that interested you about what I wrote, there's nothing more for me to add.

It's not all I am interested in. I am broadly with you on the Beattie point. But you know me, I can never resist a semantic discussion.
 
Beattie got 34 goals for us. On my calculation 8 of them were pens. He scored a few free kicks, but it's completely untrue to say that "most" of his goals were pens or free kicks (anyway, why is the ability to take a good free kick something to be denigrated?).

so approximately a quarter of his goals were pens. Quite a lot.

This is a great example of "if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes a fact". Here is what happened:

1. Beattie left, and United won the first few games thereafter. Not surprising, really, as they played Norwich (relegated) Charlton (relegated) and Watford (lower mid table), so it wasn't very difficult.

2. United then went on a bad run, losing at home to the Pigs and Doncaster and drawing at Preston. they fell out of the playoff places.

3. Blackwell then did two things that caused the team to revive:

(a) he restored Cotterill to the team. United did not lose again with him in the side until the playoff final.

(b) he dropped Billy Sharp and his 16 match non scoring run (and how Beattie gets all the flack with him in the side is beyond me) replacing him with a cast of thousands including Webber, S*** b****** Beattie and Jamie Ward. All of these people get the odd goal.

4. In addtion, the defence continued to improve as a unit, achieving our best defensive record since the sixties.

Our record with and without Beattie was about level. However, given the other changes KB made, I am firmly of the view that had he not been sold, United would have gone up with Cotterill on the wing and without that Deadweight sharp. We certainly missed him in the last few games (no striker scored in the last 8 games).

All of this is obvious from watching those games and, 3 years on, looking at the stats.

As for 20 goals getting us nowhere, if he hadn't have done that in 2007-8 United would have been in the relegation places when Robson was fired.

Ifs and buts. I agree with a lot of what you put about the defence and Coterill being very important. Your opinion is that he would have fired us up with Cotterill in the team. My opinion is that he would not have. I would actually have liked us to have had Beattie available for the play off final, though my opinion is that we would not have got there with him in it. When you look at the stats your theory is not obvious. The record with him in the team and without him in the team is roughly the same (I'd still like to see stats - Darren?) and hence why would he have fired us up? The rest is just your opinion. Which of course I disagree with.
 

so approximately a quarter of his goals were pens. Quite a lot.



Ifs and buts. I agree with a lot of what you put about the defence and Coterill being very important. Your opinion is that he would have fired us up with Cotterill in the team. My opinion is that he would not have. I would actually have liked us to have had Beattie available for the play off final, though my opinion is that we would not have got there with him in it. When you look at the stats your theory is not obvious. The record with him in the team and without him in the team is roughly the same (I'd still like to see stats - Darren?) and hence why would he have fired us up? The rest is just your opinion. Which of course I disagree with.

So 26 of his goals, over one and a half seasons were not pens. Show me another player with that kind of record in the last 20 years

On games with and without JB, if memory serves, after being injured at the start of the seaon his first game back was as sub in the 0-0 draw with Cardiff on 30/8/08. He then played (also as sub) in the 1-2 defeat at Derby on 13/9/08 before making his first fill appearance in the 1-1 draw with Coventry on 16/9/08. After that he played every league game up to and including the 3-1 win over Charlton on 28/12/08.

So 08-09record with Beattie playing (including sub game) was P23 W9 D8 L6 pts 35
and without him: P23 W13 D6 L4 pts 45
 

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