An interesting summer awaits - the squad next season

[kop_blade9]

You think a team playing with ten men could sustain the sort of run we did and reach a FA Cup semi playing teams from higher up the leagues?

He's not involved in the game enough for me.

 

[Esablade]

Is it just me who thinks Baxter is a waste of space?
He has a decent touch and a vision for passing but blink and you will miss it every match.
He goes missing for 90% of the game and I often feel like we are only playing with 10 men.
I studied his game for a couple of matches and in one match he failed to control 5 passes to him, got fouled 3 times and lost the ball, not always getting the free kick, and only completed 2 passes out of 6 to another team mate. To me this is not good enough. I agree, yes, at times he looks class and lays on some beautiful balls and creates goal scoring opportunities but it's going missing for big parts of the game that out weighs this for me.

It's part and parcel with a lot of 'flair players' isn't it..?
Something to be worked on in the summer as other's have posted...

Still, I think the 'beautiful balls and goal scoring opportunities (and goals!)' he creates tip the balance in his favour...another thing I like about Baxter is that he isn't phased or rushed into mistakes much (bit like McDonald), he'll just calmly step aside from the danger and lay the ball off to the wing backs....it's good to see, at times he's a joy to watch.

 

[MBoreman]

Why does it have to degenerate into slagging a player off ? Just discussing players ,I think both are good footballers but both have deficiencies which hold up their other attributes. I just don't think Baxter fits into the system we will play and I don't think he is good enough to build a system round. The formation you suggest would not be strong enough physically in my opinion with that personel for this league. Its a small midfield and would need a stronger forward line.

I believe he can both fit into the system and/or have a system built around him. I know that side seems slightly light weight but I think with good football being played that shouldn't be an issue. I have said often this season though we could do with a central midfielder with a bit of presence, Aneke off the top of my head?

On another note I'm sick of people who don't rate Baxter predominantly because he doesn't run about loads.
1) I see him putting in plenty of running 2) The better players generally know when to move and won't waste energy running around like a headless chicken

 

[Pinchy]

Clough barely used the 4-4-2 at Derby, and hasn't so far here.

Good players fit into many systems, Baxter is a good player.

On the day he was appointed he was interviewed by RS. He said he prefers 4-4-2. I heard it with my own ears. That doesn't fit with what you say about his time at Derby. I don't follow other teams that closely but it was a very curious thing for him to say if you are right!

I agree about Baxter though.

 

[Pinchy]

I agree Pinchy and I just don't see where Baxter will fit in ,only as a strike partner ,but I personally don't think it would work. Would you go with Flynn-Scougall-Doyle-Murphy ?

No sitwell, I don't either. He would have to be one of the 'front two' in a similar role to, say Sheringham or that lad who used to play for Forest and Liverpool...what was his name...Clough, that's it. I suspect Nigel has other plans, though.

The midfield 4 - I'm hoping for Flynn, Coady (or newcomer), Scoogs and Murphy. Doyle has been excellent since Fulham but I think we have to move on and can do better. I have a suspicion that Flynn (again vastly improved) will also come under pressure for his place as we progress. Progression and improvement will necessarily involve casualties.

That's football. It's going to be fascinating, I'm sure, to watch us develop under Nigel.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

People keep saying they'd get rid of Doyle but he's been key in what Clough has achieved.

We are better with him in the team.

 

[Latters]

On the day he was appointed he was interviewed by RS. He said he prefers 4-4-2. I heard it with my own ears. That doesn't fit with what you say about his time at Derby. I don't follow other teams that closely but it was a very curious thing for him to say if you are right!

I agree about Baxter though.

I mentioned on another thread, I work in Derbyshire with a couple of Derby fans and they confirm that Clough very rarely, if ever, went with two strikers for them.

Maybe, because he is a good manager, he can tailor the formation depending on what players might be available at the time. He has changed it about a few times for us, mostly with great success.

 

[Bergen Blade]

NC has used the formation(s) to suit the players at his disposal. As he begins (it will take time) to shape HIS team, I'm sure he will revert to 4-4-2 as his starting point. He is on record saying that's the way to play in English football.

We've never had a manager who's changed formations so often, often making tweaks during games. It would be nice to hear his thoughts on formations next season, if he'd ideally like to settle for one in particular and to what extent a preferred formation will influence the type of players he'll bring in this summer.

 

[MBoreman]

I've enjoyed watching us play with the slightly more unusual 5-3-2 (or 3-5-2 depending on the situation). Its nice having a manager willing to step away from the norm and when I've seen us play it it's worked well.

 

[itsinyerblood]

We've never had a manager who's changed formations so often, often making tweaks during games. It would be nice to hear his thoughts on formations next season, if he'd ideally like to settle for one in particular and to what extent a preferred formation will influence the type of players he'll bring in this summer.

Just an observation about your comment about formations BB. Wouldn't the type of player Clough signs go some way in influencing the formation we adopted, rather than begin with a theoretical formation and then see who's available to make this work? Hope that doesn't sound double dutch mate, but wouldn't Nigel seek to bring in quality players who are technically proficient and can adapt to whatever demands are asked of them?

 

[Pinchy]

We've never had a manager who's changed formations so often, often making tweaks during games. It would be nice to hear his thoughts on formations next season, if he'd ideally like to settle for one in particular and to what extent a preferred formation will influence the type of players he'll bring in this summer.

I agree. In truth, if you have a team of sufficiently talented players the 'formation' can be infinitely flexible (from game to game and within games) and, ultimately, irrelevant.

Personally I don't care what formation we employ. My desire is to watch eleven talented players making it a pride and pleasure to support the mighty Blades. If that happens (and I believe NC, given time and patience, will make it happen) they can line up like synchronised swimmers with pegs on their noses, so far as I'm concerned.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I agree. In truth, if you have a team of sufficiently talented players the 'formation' can be infinitely flexible (from game to game and within games) and, ultimately, irrelevant.

Personally I don't care what formation we employ. My desire is to watch eleven talented players making it a pride and pleasure to support the mighty Blades. If that happens (and I believe NC, given time and patience, will make it happen) they can line up like synchronised swimmers with pegs on their noses, so far as I'm concerned.

Ha! Just said more or less the same above

 

[Pinchy]

People keep saying they'd get rid of Doyle but he's been key in what Clough has achieved.

We are better with him in the team.

We are, for now. For the future, we need to progress. That means some of the present team will have to give way. If we want (and I know we do) promotion then surely Doyle has to be replaced? Nigel is going to be backed to bring in quality, despite what the cynics might think. In those circumstances, Doyle's position is clearly one where we can improve significantly.

It isn't compulsory to have a Doyle or, Pele forbid, a Montgomery. That's outdated. You need two central midfielders who can play a bit - both attack and defend. Coady and Scoogs could develop into a very fine central pairing.

 

[Pinchy]

Ha! Just said more or less the same above

....always one step behind, Alf!

 

[itsinyerblood]

....always one step behind, Alf!

Glad to see we agree that what we should be looking for is a player who is talented enough to adapt, that's all that matters I think.

Of course, if NC finds someone who offers great consistency in a particular position, I wouldn't be unhappy as this at least ups the talent pool at united. But the ability, and willingness, to show flexibility makes so much sense in today's game, even in Division 1.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

We are, for now. For the future, we need to progress. That means some of the present team will have to give way. If we want (and I know we do) promotion then surely Doyle has to be replaced? Nigel is going to be backed to bring in quality, despite what the cynics might think. In those circumstances, Doyle's position is clearly one where we can improve significantly.

It isn't compulsory to have a Doyle or, Pele forbid, a Montgomery. That's outdated. You need two central midfielders who can play a bit - both attack and defend. Coady and Scoogs could develop into a very fine central pairing.

In regards to Doyle, I think the team performances of the last few months have shown how vital he is. If we can get better talent than him then of course replace him, but that rule applies to every single position!

He's a leader, doesn't get bullied and helps the younger players. In addition, NC obviously rates him.

As for Scougall playing centre mid in a 4-4-2, I see people mention this a lot and I can't see him playing this role. He needs more freedom.

 

[Pinchy]

In regards to Doyle, I think the team performances of the last few months have shown how vital he is. If we can get better talent than him then of course replace him, but that rule applies to every single position!

He's a leader, doesn't get bullied and helps the younger players. In addition, NC obviously rates him.

As for Scougall playing centre mid in a 4-4-2, I see people mention this a lot and I can't see him playing this role. He needs more freedom.

It's where he played for Livingston. He did well enough to attract a big move!

Central Midfielders have freedom. It's the brains and heartbeat of the team. They should no more be stifled than anyone else. Less so, in fact. They need licence to create.

I Scoogs.

 

[sitwell]

Just an observation about your comment about formations BB. Wouldn't the type of player Clough signs go some way in influencing the formation we adopted, rather than begin with a theoretical formation and then see who's available to make this work? Hope that doesn't sound double dutch mate, but wouldn't Nigel seek to bring in quality players who are technically proficient and can adapt to whatever demands are asked of them?

The difference between Weir and Clough (one of them anyway) was that Weir tried to make players fit into his rigid formation and style ,whereas Clough has played to the players strengths and altered his formations and tactics to suit his players. The difference between a good manager and a bad one.

 

[Darthblade]

People keep saying they'd get rid of Doyle but he's been key in what Clough has achieved.

We are better with him in the team.

Could I have some of whatever you are drinking please ...... because from where I sit Doyle is, without doubt, the current weak link in the team.

Replace him with a decent box to box midfield [player with a bit of pace and strength and we will have a decent midfield
UTB & FTP

 

[LSF]

Could I have some of whatever you are drinking please ...... because from where I sit Doyle is, without doubt, the current weak link in the team.

Replace him with a decent box to box midfield [player with a bit of pace and strength and we will have a decent midfield
UTB & FTP

Do you sit near Nigel Clough cos he sees it differently apparently, think I'll go with his judgement until he decides we can afford something better

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

He's not involved in the game enough for me.

Part of the tactics; idea being to draw the back four out/up the pitch to give the wingers and midfield space to exploit.

 

[JOEYDEE]

Well it's a yes or a no 50% chance of being correct or are the odds more favourable?

Sirius,
This is not a 50/50 chance trust me !

 

[wizadry]

I think you will find cloughy only plays doyle because we have not got anybody else to play there.This season the only time we could have not played doyle is if we had 2 good strikers,this meaning having coady and scouggs in the central pairing but we all know about the striker situation, which has inevitably meant doyle has played every game barring his suspension imo

 

[MBoreman]

I still can't believe some people haven't realised how important Doyle is! First half against Tranmere the midfield was non existent defensively and the defence were often exposed, and I feel the same would happen with a two of Coady and Scougall. Not even just defensively, Doyle breaks up play then starts off attacks.

The only argument for replacing him would be that, with his age, we won't be able to rely on him for much longer so could do with easing him out.

 

[Darthblade]

Do you sit near Nigel Clough cos he sees it differently apparently, think I'll go with his judgement until he decides we can afford something better

I know NC praises Doyle and supports him unreservedly; just can't understand why and its pretty much the only thing I disagree with that Nigel says.

I can only surmise that he's standing behind him solidly as he's Club captain and is good for the dressing room to be publicly supportive of his captain. Would agree that he's been "better" since being sent off against Fulham ( he could hardly have been worse ), BUT I still say that hes way too slow to keep up with play, has little influence on any game ( for an experienced player ) and its an area in which we could do soooo much better with minimal outlay.

Don't dislike the guy at all and he says all the right things, but its a crucial area of the pitch and too often this season teams have just played straight through him. Look at how few bookings he has accumulated, due to the fact he rarely gets a tackle in.

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

I still can't believe some people haven't realised how important Doyle is! First half against Tranmere the midfield was non existent defensively and the defence were often exposed, and I feel the same would happen with a two of Coady and Scougall. Not even just defensively, Doyle breaks up play then starts off attacks.

The only argument for replacing him would be that, with his age, we won't be able to rely on him for much longer so could do with easing him out.

Sorry to disagree mate but I don't think he does break up play because he rarely catches up with play. Players tend to ghost past him as he has little pace. Its a particular area of weakness in our team and needs addressing IF we are to have a serious attempt at automatic promotion next season.

UTB & FTP

 

[Silent Blade]

I know NC praises Doyle and supports him unreservedly; just can't understand why and its pretty much the only thing I disagree with that Nigel says.

I can only surmise that he's standing behind him solidly as he's Club captain and is good for the dressing room to be publicly supportive of his captain. Would agree that he's been "better" since being sent off against Fulham ( he could hardly have been worse ), BUT I still say that hes way too slow to keep up with play, has little influence on any game ( for an experienced player ) and its an area in which we could do soooo much better with minimal outlay.

Don't dislike the guy at all and he says all the right things, but its a crucial area of the pitch and too often this season teams have just played straight through him. Look at how few bookings he has accumulated, due to the fact he rarely gets a tackle in.

UTB & FTP

I remember when Clough first came to us I read reports that he wanted to bring in Jake Buxton to be our captain so maybe he will do that this summer?

 

[sheffielder]

I know NC praises Doyle and supports him unreservedly; just can't understand why and its pretty much the only thing I disagree with that Nigel says.

I can only surmise that he's standing behind him solidly as he's Club captain and is good for the dressing room to be publicly supportive of his captain. Would agree that he's been "better" since being sent off against Fulham ( he could hardly have been worse ), BUT I still say that hes way too slow to keep up with play, has little influence on any game ( for an experienced player ) and its an area in which we could do soooo much better with minimal outlay.

Don't dislike the guy at all and he says all the right things, but its a crucial area of the pitch and too often this season teams have just played straight through him. Look at how few bookings he has accumulated, due to the fact he rarely gets a tackle in.

UTB & FTP

Doyle is a false economy because he is limited in what he can bring to them team. We need more goals from midfield, however while we are playing an extra man in there to cover for Doyle's inability to get round the pitch we won't be the team we should be. Someone mentioned Gleeson from MK Don's the other day and that would be what I would be trying to do if I was Clough. Someone you can unlock doors and get round the pitch.

I see a central midfielder as key to next season as a striker, whether that be to replace or play alongside Doyle. The shape just isn't quite what we need to win games every week.

 

[LSF]

I know NC praises Doyle and supports him unreservedly; just can't understand why and its pretty much the only thing I disagree with that Nigel says.

I can only surmise that he's standing behind him solidly as he's Club captain and is good for the dressing room to be publicly supportive of his captain. Would agree that he's been "better" since being sent off against Fulham ( he could hardly have been worse ), BUT I still say that hes way too slow to keep up with play, has little influence on any game ( for an experienced player ) and its an area in which we could do soooo much better with minimal outlay.

Don't dislike the guy at all and he says all the right things, but its a crucial area of the pitch and too often this season teams have just played straight through him. Look at how few bookings he has accumulated, due to the fact he rarely gets a tackle in.

UTB & FTP

I can see your head hasn't been turned by Doyle's apparent upturn in form and I think you make your critical points about him in a clear and concise way.
Can't disagree about him not having the legs to get about midfield but then again he never has been the quickest, even in his younger days. However, his game is based on positional sense and timing, and my view is that he wins his fair share of the second and third phase of the ball, using position and know how and accurately recycles to get us going again. No manager he's played for here has anyone better at his disposal to do this, hence his regular selection. One thing he isn't is a box to box player, we have others who obviously fulfil this, but his holding play this season has been on the whole, more than satisfactory. Otherwise, if he was as gash as some have suggested, Clough and other managers would have prioritised replacing him. They chose to do this in other areas instead.

Next season, who knows, Doyle's a year older, a bit more battle weary, so maybe Clough will look at this area as one which needs attention. But if he thinks Doyle can do the designated job of hold, win and recycle, then I'm happy to go with that.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Doyle is a false economy because he is limited in what he can bring to them team. We need more goals from midfield, however while we are playing an extra man in there to cover for Doyle's inability to get round the pitch we won't be the team we should be. Someone mentioned Gleeson from MK Don's the other day and that would be what I would be trying to do if I was Clough. Someone you can unlock doors and get round the pitch.

I see a central midfielder as key to next season as a striker, whether that be to replace or play alongside Doyle. The shape just isn't quite what we need to win games every week.

That's a fair summation sheffielder, by all means let's have a central midfield pairing who understand their responsibilities and have the necessary discipline to carry them out. A holding midfielder shouldn't be a literal interpretation where the player is glued to the spot. I think Doyle's done ok since being sent off. The obvious improvement in his game still hasn't convinced me that he's the man to perform this role to the level that's necessary if we really want to compete for promotion next season.

As with Evans, this is Nigel's shout. I trust his judgement and I'm happy to be proved wrong. But the most repeated comment about Doyle still holds true, with him as our captain we've seen the club decline each year. Coincidence? Of course it's not as simple as piling on the responsibility for this on his shoulders alone, but Doyle isn't equipped to make the sort of contribution we'll need to show real improvement next season.